THE WENGER THREAD

[NickF]

I see some people are comparing Lord A-hole going unbeaten favourably to other managers like Mourinhk etc. Still living in the past I see! Why is this myth still perpetuated? So what if Mourinho, Pep and Fergie never went a season unbeaten? AVB went a season unbeaten with Porto FFS.

If you go a season unbeaten, you win one trophy.

Ultimately you are right, you do only get one trophy for an unbeaten season.
However the league has being around since the 1800s (apparently football did actually exist before the premier league!) and in all that time there has only been 2 unbeaten seasons.

It is one of those records we actually can be immensely proud of.

[casgooner]

I see some people are comparing Lord A-hole going unbeaten favourably to other managers like Mourinhk etc. Still living in the past I see! Why is this myth still perpetuated? So what if Mourinho, Pep and Fergie never went a season unbeaten? AVB went a season unbeaten with Porto FFS.

If you go a season unbeaten, you win one trophy.

Ultimately you are right, you do only get one trophy for an unbeaten season.
However the league has being around since the 1800s (apparently football did actually exist before the premier league!) and in all that time there has only been 2 unbeaten seasons.

It is one of those records we actually can be immensely proud of.

We can be proud of it and I am proud of it, but we can't dine out on it forever.

[Sean]

The Suarez bid was a farce, but about a year later J.Henry admitted that we had met the buyout clause. Liverpool illegally rejected the bid. Of course, by the time that news came out, no-one gave a fuck. Liverpool should have been done for that. Bastards.

We should have bid £40.5M or £45M. We would have won at least two league titles by now. Another turning point that didn't go our way

I do think that the first decade of success was largely down to the inherited players who ran the dressing room and gave orders on the pitch and a few canny signings. Dein's influence was also a big factor in actually signing these players, whereas TOF on his own (as he is now) would have baulked at paying 'over the odds' even for a good player. That early influence had died out by 2005-07 when Keown, Vieira, Bergkamp and Henry had all left the club. It's no co-incidence that we've been soft as shite ever since.

I have no doubt that serious fan protests would change things within the club (although whether it would force enough change I don't know) - wenker doesn't like being challenged and would be in no doubt that we are no longer willing to accept this bullshit. I think that serious fan protest would also awaken the board - vocal protests inside and outside the bowl, fan fighting inside and outside, and empty seats aplenty would certainly create alarm in the boardroom and might make them realise that is no longer a minority who want him out

I agree. Fan pressure can make a difference; it just needs to be sustained. I have heard about the Terry Neill protests and the Billy Wright protests. It doesn't happen often at our club, granted, but the end goal was a success.

The board will never sack The Old Fraud, but he hates to be questioned by any 'peasant' supporter or journalist. It's the only way we can provoke him into having a massive hissy fit and finally fucking off. We need to try to stop that 2019 extension if it's possible. He needs to know he has outstayed his welcome by at least five years and it's time to go.

[northbank123]

The point is that the only person who could enforce that clause was Suarez. We aren't a party to the contract so have no right to enforce it. And Liverpool made it quite clear that he couldn't sulk his way to Arsenal and had he taken legal action he would have spent months with the youth squad not playing football as endless court battles and appeals went on.

He nearly single-handedly won them a title and left for 30m more the following summer - showing what can be achieved by playing hardball with your players rather than cashing in your chips as soon as they make noises about leaving.

[Clash]

I also have to laugh at the notion that fan pressure won't achieve anything. A line AKBs often like to roll out in a bid to dissuade people from protests against Master Fuckwit. I'll repeat what I've always said: Arsenal isn't some unique club subject to different rules. Kroenke isn't an exception to the rule - he is the same as the Glazers, Randy Lerner, FSG and Hicks/Gillet at Liverpool. Kroenke isn't God, he is a ruthless businessman concerned by the bottom line and reputational damage only.
If Kroenke sees the balance sheet shrinking, Wenker is history. Simple as that, it will be a financial decision.

Not sure if any of you remember but about 2/3 years ago, Kroenke's PR firm released a statement denying that Kroenke was someone who didn't care about winning. Now, obviously his recent comments at that conference are damning...until you remember that Yank sports and their franchise system is totally different to football. All Yank owners learn this. Hicks and Gillett were ruthless chancers and fan pressure saw them off.
When ManYoo fans began protesting with their dumb scarves, the Glazers bought them Tevez, brought in Evra, and won a PL and CL double.

What is this bullshit theory that Arsenal are somehow immune to the same rules every club is? We aren't. It's just another excuse to do sod all.

If Arsenal fans turn the pressure up massively on match days then the coverage will match it. If a Times lead football hack is saying the fans need to protest more, it'll be for a reason. If Lee Dixon says that irrespective of what Wenker says, the fans will decide when he goes, then that's the way it is.

A couple of banners is a good start. Then I think to what happened to the Marseille manager on Sunday night: in case you didn't know, he needed riot police to help escort him to the tunnel
Not for a minute suggesting this should happen at Arsenal but FFS how hard is it for ALL fans to get out the white hankies and wave them at a game?

Firstly, let me say that I agree with a lot of what you say on here.

But what I see here now is you urging protest from the very people you’ve regularly slated and labelled sheep for renewing their season tickets. There is no point urging protest from the new breed that has replaced the likes of yourself. That lot are more into their ‘Ole’s’ when we’re beating Watford 3-0 than being on the verge of creating a revolt.

I am not digging you out by the way because I have done exactly the same thing you did. But I am starting to wish I hadn’t. There is a reason the ground is so sterile or lacking in passion and much of it is down to the likes of you and me and many other of the Highbury generation of fans giving up attending home games. I alone know of more than 20 lads from the past who were regulars that do not attend anymore. But the more that leave the worse the place becomes. And so more leave.

Too many of us are (or were) under the misapprehension that by giving up their season ticket we were somehow contributing to the cause of getting the manager and/or owner out. It’s bollocks though. We’ve done fuck all if we are honest, just the same as pretty much 99% of the fan base.

Maybe what we’ve done is worse? Because we are now not able to get into games and protest. Hence urging others to do it for us. In effect the only thing we’ve contributed to is our own bank balance and sanity.

From the clubs point of view they are no doubt delighted to see one of the more demanding and passionate long-term fans like yourself go out one door, while a newbie type who doesn’t know or care anywhere near as much about the clubs history, comes in the other door. I am sure they deliberately targeted those types of fans and no doubt that has been the plan all along.

So to all former season ticket holders who stopped going or were driven away, I totally understand the reasons. But it was possibly the worst thing we could have done.

[armchair]

Ive wanted him gone from 2005.
2005. Let that sink in. 11 long years.

Am I a visionary?

[A11M11]

Clash :- spot on, Once again I wrestle with the decision , it's getting harder to be a constant attendee with the games being shuffled to silly o'clock kick off times on any disparate day of the week. If I turn my back it's after 60 years (first game 1956 ). I love my team on the pitch but now I have grown to hate my club. Sad really.

[northbank123]

Ive wanted him gone from 2005.
2005. Let that sink in. 11 long years.

Am I a visionary?

Id be more tempted to say you are a complete lunatic.

[Dodgyknee71]

I also have to laugh at the notion that fan pressure won't achieve anything. A line AKBs often like to roll out in a bid to dissuade people from protests against Master Fuckwit. I'll repeat what I've always said: Arsenal isn't some unique club subject to different rules. Kroenke isn't an exception to the rule - he is the same as the Glazers, Randy Lerner, FSG and Hicks/Gillet at Liverpool. Kroenke isn't God, he is a ruthless businessman concerned by the bottom line and reputational damage only.
If Kroenke sees the balance sheet shrinking, Wenker is history. Simple as that, it will be a financial decision.

Not sure if any of you remember but about 2/3 years ago, Kroenke's PR firm released a statement denying that Kroenke was someone who didn't care about winning. Now, obviously his recent comments at that conference are damning...until you remember that Yank sports and their franchise system is totally different to football. All Yank owners learn this. Hicks and Gillett were ruthless chancers and fan pressure saw them off.
When ManYoo fans began protesting with their dumb scarves, the Glazers bought them Tevez, brought in Evra, and won a PL and CL double.

What is this bullshit theory that Arsenal are somehow immune to the same rules every club is? We aren't. It's just another excuse to do sod all.

If Arsenal fans turn the pressure up massively on match days then the coverage will match it. If a Times lead football hack is saying the fans need to protest more, it'll be for a reason. If Lee Dixon says that irrespective of what Wenker says, the fans will decide when he goes, then that's the way it is.

A couple of banners is a good start. Then I think to what happened to the Marseille manager on Sunday night: in case you didn't know, he needed riot police to help escort him to the tunnel
Not for a minute suggesting this should happen at Arsenal but FFS how hard is it for ALL fans to get out the white hankies and wave them at a game?

Firstly, let me say that I agree with a lot of what you say on here.

But what I see here now is you urging protest from the very people you’ve regularly slated and labelled sheep for renewing their season tickets. There is no point urging protest from the new breed that has replaced the likes of yourself. That lot are more into their ‘Ole’s’ when we’re beating Watford 3-0 than being on the verge of creating a revolt.

I am not digging you out by the way because I have done exactly the same thing you did. But I am starting to wish I hadn’t. There is a reason the ground is so sterile or lacking in passion and much of it is down to the likes of you and me and many other of the Highbury generation of fans giving up attending home games. I alone know of more than 20 lads from the past who were regulars that do not attend anymore. But the more that leave the worse the place becomes. And so more leave.

Too many of us are (or were) under the misapprehension that by giving up their season ticket we were somehow contributing to the cause of getting the manager and/or owner out. It’s bollocks though. We’ve done fuck all if we are honest, just the same as pretty much 99% of the fan base.

Maybe what we’ve done is worse? Because we are now not able to get into games and protest. Hence urging others to do it for us. In effect the only thing we’ve contributed to is our own bank balance and sanity.

From the clubs point of view they are no doubt delighted to see one of the more demanding and passionate long-term fans like yourself go out one door, while a newbie type who doesn’t know or care anywhere near as much about the clubs history, comes in the other door. I am sure they deliberately targeted those types of fans and no doubt that has been the plan all along.

So to all former season ticket holders who stopped going or were driven away, I totally understand the reasons. But it was possibly the worst thing we could have done.

At last! Quality

[Ikechukwu1]

I also have to laugh at the notion that fan pressure won't achieve anything. A line AKBs often like to roll out in a bid to dissuade people from protests against Master Fuckwit. I'll repeat what I've always said: Arsenal isn't some unique club subject to different rules. Kroenke isn't an exception to the rule - he is the same as the Glazers, Randy Lerner, FSG and Hicks/Gillet at Liverpool. Kroenke isn't God, he is a ruthless businessman concerned by the bottom line and reputational damage only.
If Kroenke sees the balance sheet shrinking, Wenker is history. Simple as that, it will be a financial decision.

Not sure if any of you remember but about 2/3 years ago, Kroenke's PR firm released a statement denying that Kroenke was someone who didn't care about winning. Now, obviously his recent comments at that conference are damning...until you remember that Yank sports and their franchise system is totally different to football. All Yank owners learn this. Hicks and Gillett were ruthless chancers and fan pressure saw them off.
When ManYoo fans began protesting with their dumb scarves, the Glazers bought them Tevez, brought in Evra, and won a PL and CL double.

What is this bullshit theory that Arsenal are somehow immune to the same rules every club is? We aren't. It's just another excuse to do sod all.

If Arsenal fans turn the pressure up massively on match days then the coverage will match it. If a Times lead football hack is saying the fans need to protest more, it'll be for a reason. If Lee Dixon says that irrespective of what Wenker says, the fans will decide when he goes, then that's the way it is.

A couple of banners is a good start. Then I think to what happened to the Marseille manager on Sunday night: in case you didn't know, he needed riot police to help escort him to the tunnel
Not for a minute suggesting this should happen at Arsenal but FFS how hard is it for ALL fans to get out the white hankies and wave them at a game?

Firstly, let me say that I agree with a lot of what you say on here.

But what I see here now is you urging protest from the very people you’ve regularly slated and labelled sheep for renewing their season tickets. There is no point urging protest from the new breed that has replaced the likes of yourself. That lot are more into their ‘Ole’s’ when we’re beating Watford 3-0 than being on the verge of creating a revolt.

I am not digging you out by the way because I have done exactly the same thing you did. But I am starting to wish I hadn’t. There is a reason the ground is so sterile or lacking in passion and much of it is down to the likes of you and me and many other of the Highbury generation of fans giving up attending home games. I alone know of more than 20 lads from the past who were regulars that do not attend anymore. But the more that leave the worse the place becomes. And so more leave.

Too many of us are (or were) under the misapprehension that by giving up their season ticket we were somehow contributing to the cause of getting the manager and/or owner out. It’s bollocks though. We’ve done fuck all if we are honest, just the same as pretty much 99% of the fan base.

Maybe what we’ve done is worse? Because we are now not able to get into games and protest. Hence urging others to do it for us. In effect the only thing we’ve contributed to is our own bank balance and sanity.

From the clubs point of view they are no doubt delighted to see one of the more demanding and passionate long-term fans like yourself go out one door, while a newbie type who doesn’t know or care anywhere near as much about the clubs history, comes in the other door. I am sure they deliberately targeted those types of fans and no doubt that has been the plan all along.

So to all former season ticket holders who stopped going or were driven away, I totally understand the reasons. But it was possibly the worst thing we could have done.

You make some excellent points and hard to disagree with much of that. I could not carry on giving those swindlers money, no chance. I dig out the ST holders it's true - but some still remain who aren't total sheep. And more than ST holders, it's the silver and red members I'm more interested in. Especially silvers - plenty of old fans have ditched their STs and gone silver instead, some even red.
You're correct that by turning our backs it's led to an even more sterile, sanitizer atmosphere. Then again, some old school fans are still left.

Frankly, most of ours fans under the age of 25 have known nothing but Lord A Hole. It's a problem. The banner boys though, those that turned on him at home to Villa, the verbals post Swansea etc...some are still there. It's these lot that need to make it sustained. I personally cannot stomach contributing directly to a patronising lying inept scumbag like Wenger. No way.

I also sincerely think I'd have been banned by now because trust me, if any AKB was to turn round to me and tell me to pipe down when slating that c**** he would be getting a slap.

I totally accept the validity of your point though, it definitely has some truth to it.

[Redarmy]

I see some people are comparing Lord A-hole going unbeaten favourably to other managers like Mourinhk etc. Still living in the past I see! Why is this myth still perpetuated? So what if Mourinho, Pep and Fergie never went a season unbeaten? AVB went a season unbeaten with Porto FFS.

If you go a season unbeaten, you win one trophy.

Ultimately you are right, you do only get one trophy for an unbeaten season.
However the league has being around since the 1800s (apparently football did actually exist before the premier league!) and in all that time there has only been 2 unbeaten seasons.

It is one of those records we actually can be immensely proud of.

ABSOLUTELY....100% agree

[Ikechukwu1]

Looking at the CL it's interesting to look at the managers left in it:

Blanc - Young, up and coming manager
Rui Victoria at Benfica - he's 45, doing great job
Pep - we all know about him
Luis Enrique - won the Treble and might again
Zidane - a novice, who's on the verge of getting Madrid in a final in his first ever season
Diego Simeone - we all know and would love him to manage us now.

The exception is Pellegrini and he's been turfed out. Also interesting to note that after 2/3 years of constantly getting it horribly wrong in Europe, Pellegrini has learnt lessons and adopted tactics with 2 holding mids, and asking Silva to drop even more. He is now in Citeh's first ever semi and with a good draw, gets into a final. It's taken Pellegrini about 3 years to learn but he's got it.

Then there's our dickhead. 6 consecutive last 16 exits isn't it? It's so obvious the club needs a young, hungry manager. Look around Europe and the big clubs all have one. We are still meanwhile a nursing home for old past-it never-has-beens

[Nos89]

I see some people are comparing Lord A-hole going unbeaten favourably to other managers like Mourinhk etc. Still living in the past I see! Why is this myth still perpetuated? So what if Mourinho, Pep and Fergie never went a season unbeaten? AVB went a season unbeaten with Porto FFS.

If you go a season unbeaten, you win one trophy.

Ultimately you are right, you do only get one trophy for an unbeaten season.
However the league has being around since the 1800s (apparently football did actually exist before the premier league!) and in all that time there has only been 2 unbeaten seasons.

It is one of those records we actually can be immensely proud of.

Absolutely right.
The Messi years of Barcelona are yet to record an undefeated season.
If Liverpool can dine out on 5 European Cups then by heck we can dine out on 49 unbeaten games.
We also got TWO trophies for that season. One gold one...has any other team got one of them yet?
To add I'm proud of that feat doesnt mean I support Wenger. I support Arsenal.
I still rib the scousers about that night at Anfield in 1989...doesn't mean I want George Graham as manager.

[Ikechukwu1]

I see some people are comparing Lord A-hole going unbeaten favourably to other managers like Mourinhk etc. Still living in the past I see! Why is this myth still perpetuated? So what if Mourinho, Pep and Fergie never went a season unbeaten? AVB went a season unbeaten with Porto FFS.

If you go a season unbeaten, you win one trophy.

Ultimately you are right, you do only get one trophy for an unbeaten season.
However the league has being around since the 1800s (apparently football did actually exist before the premier league!) and in all that time there has only been 2 unbeaten seasons.

It is one of those records we actually can be immensely proud of.

Absolutely right.
The Messi years of Barcelona are yet to record an undefeated season.
If Liverpool can dine out on 5 European Cups then by heck we can dine out on 49 unbeaten games.
We also got TWO trophies for that season. One gold one...has any other team got one of them yet?
To add I'm proud of that feat doesnt mean I support Wenger. I support Arsenal.
I still rib the scousers about that night at Anfield in 1989...doesn't mean I want George Graham as manager.

Yeah good point. The Messi years of Barcelona in that comparative period have been minor eh?

Since 2004: 3 CLs, 2 Trebles, 1 Clean Sweep (Six Trophies in a season!), oh and 5 Ballon d'Or winners.

Since 2004: one unbeaten season.
I'm sure Messi would swap those 2 Trebles for an unbeaten season

Don't get me wrong, the Invincibles was a fab achievement no question. But for anyone to compare it to what Barca, Madrid, Inter have achieved ie European Cups and Trebles, shows the extent of revisionism that exists.

An unbeaten season is a top achievement.
A Treble will ALWAYS be superior. Not even comparable

[BFG4]

On the point of Wenger's first 10 years at the club, I think his mentality was far different to what it is now. I've said it before on here, but I have a DVD from the 2002/2003 season, and Wenger talks about being extremely disappointed we hadn't won the league. That season, we finished 2nd, and won the FA cup. Could you imagine how he would treat a runners up spot, and a cup win now, he would act like we had won the CL. The reality is, he has a loser mentality, and rather than seeing 2nd best as not good enough(or 4th best usually), he sees it as success. In the Invincible's season, he bought Reyes in January, to make sure we won the league. Could you imagine if we found ourselves unbeaten heading into January nowadays, he would sign no one, that's the difference. He is a loser content with mediocrity, and is a completely different person to the manager we had 10 years ago.