THE WENGER THREAD

[OneBardGooner]

Even his biographer John has Criss Crossed this season ,they like to be informed but since they never sit or talk to fans themselves they have no clue what supporters really think .
The Wenger dilema is a complicated one and even some of those who would see him leave have mixed feelings about how that should come about !
It is unfortunate that the WOB have idiots like DT who have become spokespersons !

So who would you have as a spokesperson for the WOB mate?

[OneBardGooner]

I dreamt there was an Atomic Kitten New album last night - So no sleep for me

surprising news OneBard, I had you pegged more as an sclub fan.......

Oi! There are limits!

[GoonerMuzz]

I agree with pretty much everything Herd, DB10, Fox and Armchair have said, it's about ambition and the perception of competing not just trying to compete, every fan knows you're not going to win everything every season but no matter what club you support you expect everyone within the club to give it their maximum effort to do better.

For the last 5-10 seasons if not more we've been coasting and doing just enough whilst as fans we've been ploughing money into the club hoping for more, this isn't just about the match day going fans either it is every fan, whether you go home and away or just chose to renew your membership hoping for the chance of tickets or even just watch matches on sky or BT (remember the club gets a cut of all those subscriptions eventually) or on MotD we're all still fans and we are entitled, in my opinion anyway, to expect more than the semblance of trying.

I don't think many, except possibly the most deluded, Arsenal fans can say the Club, Board and Manager as a whole are putting in the maximum effort to win every season.

Of course we want to win trophies but that doesn't mean any of us think we are entitled to them but i do think as fans all of us are entitled to think we're trying rather than just taking part and doing the bare minimum to make the maximum amount of money each season.

[StuartL]

I agree with pretty much everything Herd, DB10, Fox and Armchair have said, it's about ambition and the perception of competing not just trying to compete, every fan knows you're not going to win everything every season but no matter what club you support you expect everyone within the club to give it their maximum effort to do better.

For the last 5-10 seasons if not more we've been coasting and doing just enough whilst as fans we've been ploughing money into the club hoping for more, this isn't just about the match day going fans either it is every fan, whether you go home and away or just chose to renew your membership hoping for the chance of tickets or even just watch matches on sky or BT (remember the club gets a cut of all those subscriptions eventually) or on MotD we're all still fans and we are entitled, in my opinion anyway, to expect more than the semblance of trying.

I don't think many, except possibly the most deluded, Arsenal fans can say the Club, Board and Manager as a whole are putting in the maximum effort to win every season.

Of course we want to win trophies but that doesn't mean any of us think we are entitled to them but i do think as fans all of us are entitled to think we're trying rather than just taking part and doing the bare minimum to make the maximum amount of money each season.

Exactly, it's the minimum outlay to achieve the return of CL football - job done, target achieved, bonus rewarded.

[Redarmy]

see Man Utd fans with banners out calling for Van Gaal to go, strange no piss taking as there was with the Arsenal fans similar protest

our lovable unbiased media at work

The reality is that the media write what the fans want to hear. They savage van Gaal and have done continually because the fans have never taken to him there. Most glory-hunting sad sacks who pass themselves off as United fans would resent any criticism of them under Ferguson and be convinced that it was bias and jealousy against the club. Now most of them enjoy reading that shit because they agree with it.

Likewise the media would gush every week about Rodgers when Liverpool fans adored him even before their title charge, but as soon as the fans got fed up they couldn't wait to start depicting him as a David Brent wannabe. You'll be hard-pushed to find anybody willing to tender any serious criticism for Klopp because Liverpool fans will furiously disagree.

With Wenger the personality cult will always be there and there will always be OTT calls for "respect", but the media would change their tune tomorrow if they thought that a majority of Arsenal fans really wanted him gone.

Yes good point

[Redarmy]

I agree with pretty much everything Herd, DB10, Fox and Armchair have said, it's about ambition and the perception of competing not just trying to compete, every fan knows you're not going to win everything every season but no matter what club you support you expect everyone within the club to give it their maximum effort to do better.

For the last 5-10 seasons if not more we've been coasting and doing just enough whilst as fans we've been ploughing money into the club hoping for more, this isn't just about the match day going fans either it is every fan, whether you go home and away or just chose to renew your membership hoping for the chance of tickets or even just watch matches on sky or BT (remember the club gets a cut of all those subscriptions eventually) or on MotD we're all still fans and we are entitled, in my opinion anyway, to expect more than the semblance of trying.

I don't think many, except possibly the most deluded, Arsenal fans can say the Club, Board and Manager as a whole are putting in the maximum effort to win every season.

Of course we want to win trophies but that doesn't mean any of us think we are entitled to them but i do think as fans all of us are entitled to think we're trying rather than just taking part and doing the bare minimum to make the maximum amount of money each season.

Exactly, it's the minimum outlay to achieve the return of REVENUE RECEIVED FROM CL football - job done, target achieved, bonus rewarded.

FANS HAPPY

with amendments no actual ambition to win CL

[xisstential]

I agree with pretty much everything Herd, DB10, Fox and Armchair have said, it's about ambition and the perception of competing not just trying to compete, every fan knows you're not going to win everything every season but no matter what club you support you expect everyone within the club to give it their maximum effort to do better.

For the last 5-10 seasons if not more we've been coasting and doing just enough whilst as fans we've been ploughing money into the club hoping for more, this isn't just about the match day going fans either it is every fan, whether you go home and away or just chose to renew your membership hoping for the chance of tickets or even just watch matches on sky or BT (remember the club gets a cut of all those subscriptions eventually) or on MotD we're all still fans and we are entitled, in my opinion anyway, to expect more than the semblance of trying.

I don't think many, except possibly the most deluded, Arsenal fans can say the Club, Board and Manager as a whole are putting in the maximum effort to win every season.

Of course we want to win trophies but that doesn't mean any of us think we are entitled to them but i do think as fans all of us are entitled to think we're trying rather than just taking part and doing the bare minimum to make the maximum amount of money each season.

Exactly, it's the minimum outlay to achieve the return of REVENUE RECEIVED FROM CL football - job done, target achieved, bonus rewarded.

FANS HAPPY

with amendments no actual ambition to win CL

No, I honestly think he would love to. I believe it's where he sees himself, this Colossus of football striding majestically across the European stage. But like everything else he wants to do it in a special way, a unique way, The Wenger Way. It's not enough just to win it, he has this preconceived idea how these things can be achieved (only by him though, others will adopt his blueprint in the years to come) and even though it has failed time & time again he will not give up on it because he is right, he is always right. That is why he is so genuinely baffled as to how Ranieri did what he did. Not so much that he did it, but how he did it. The fact that Ranieri could win games having less of the ball than the opposition is mystifying to him.

But that has now probably been shrugged off, dismissed as an aberration.......The Wenger Way will continue..... as will the Wenger failures.

[casgooner]

I'd be interested to know what people on here consider to be a successful season.

The reason I ask is that reading the last few pages would have you believe that nothing other than 1st place can be considered any kind of success!
I'm as pissed off as anyone on here at our groundhog club and the increasing ineptitude/arrogance of our manager. I also believe that failing to win the league this year is not acceptable given that everyone else failed to turn up. So in that respect I totally understand the feeling of other supporters as I largely share them. I'm not as extreme in my views as some people though, I admit that. Feelings of hatred etc. are best saved for those that actually have a major negative effect on my life or those of my loved ones. Not for a football manager that doesn't really affect my life.

So, assuming the normal standards we've come to expect from Citeh, The Chavs and The Mancs are restored, what would make people consider next season to have been a successful one on the pitch (and that's assuming that AW is still here so don't bother with the Wenger leaving comments, that's not what I'm getting at)?

For me, top 4 is a must, top 2 would be nice, winning the PL would be the ultimate. Champs league last 4, maybe the final? FA Cup semi/final/winners? Don't really give a toss about the league cup anymore though.
I don't think any club achieving that could say the season was a 'failure' unless they'd spunked a bucketful of cash as well. Of course, winning all three would be great, and we know it can be done, but is highly unlikely.

So, over to you.......

Buying decent players last summer or, when it was clear we were in with a chance of winning the league, buying in January to enable us to compete. We flopped big time, again, we never look like a team who will compete for the title. Even the people in the media say of the season, 'Arsenal, well Arsenal did what they always do.' Players putting in effort and at least breaking out in a sweat. We show absolutely no ambition and Wenger thinks getting 4th is the be all and end all. Clearly it's about the money for getting 4th or he would try harder in the group stages, but it doesn't matter once we're in the group stages.

Ambition, I want to see ambition!

[augie]

Ambition AND Accountability and I'm not just talking about the manager here - how many times have we gone mental at the lazy half arsed performances ? How many times have we lost the plot when giroud/bentner/wally etc miss golden chances ? How many times have we watched almunia/chesney/cech let in goals tat a pub keeper would save ? Will there be any consequences for wilshere for his latest indescretions ? Will there f.uck How many times have we seen consequences for the players for any of these fundamental key issues ? Even if we ignore the fact that they have been continually rewarded with new contracts, we cannot ignore that rarely, if ever, have we dropped under performing players ?
We all (correctly) moan about the lack of accountability for the senile old cuntbag manager and the board, but it is an issue that runs right through our club

To answer spuddy's question I can only echo what others have said.......it isnt the winning of the trophies as much as doing everything possible to win them - that covers many aspects like player recruitment, player sales, tactics and the aforementioned accountability. Many akb's (not you spuddy) try to muddy the waters by suggestioning that we are ungrateful and think that we have a devine right to win trophies - the meeja and other fans latch on to this and then tag us as spoilt which is total bullshit. Wait and see how many seasons the next manager will be "allowed" to get away with just finishing top 4 and declaring it as success - without a shadow of a doubt the akb will be on his back by the end of the first season, and by the end of the second season they will be loudly calling for his sacking

[Bradywasking]

Horrible feeling waking up on FA Cup Final morning and not being in the final... If we had went out away to a top side after a titanic effort maybe it wouldn't hurt so much.. Thanks Arsene..

[casgooner]

Horrible feeling waking up on FA Cup Final morning and not being in the final... If we had went out away to a top side after a titanic effort maybe it wouldn't hurt so much.. Thanks Arsene..

That's exactly how I feel, exactly!

[Redarmy]

Horrible feeling waking up on FA Cup Final morning and not being in the final... If we had went out away to a top side after a titanic effort maybe it wouldn't hurt so much.. Thanks Arsene..

That's exactly how I feel, exactly!

Yes me too losing to Watford and going out the cup in that manner.....remember many times at Highbury when we were losing the last 20 minutes there was normally a siege on the away goal, constant effort......fans willing them on.......

[Kvltman]

There's a cup final on today??






*That's what Wenger will be asking himself!*

[GranadaJoe]

I agree with pretty much everything Herd, DB10, Fox and Armchair have said, it's about ambition and the perception of competing not just trying to compete, every fan knows you're not going to win everything every season but no matter what club you support you expect everyone within the club to give it their maximum effort to do better.

For the last 5-10 seasons if not more we've been coasting and doing just enough whilst as fans we've been ploughing money into the club hoping for more, this isn't just about the match day going fans either it is every fan, whether you go home and away or just chose to renew your membership hoping for the chance of tickets or even just watch matches on sky or BT (remember the club gets a cut of all those subscriptions eventually) or on MotD we're all still fans and we are entitled, in my opinion anyway, to expect more than the semblance of trying.

I don't think many, except possibly the most deluded, Arsenal fans can say the Club, Board and Manager as a whole are putting in the maximum effort to win every season.

Of course we want to win trophies but that doesn't mean any of us think we are entitled to them but i do think as fans all of us are entitled to think we're trying rather than just taking part and doing the bare minimum to make the maximum amount of money each season.

Exactly, it's the minimum outlay to achieve the return of REVENUE RECEIVED FROM CL football - job done, target achieved, bonus rewarded.

FANS HAPPY

with amendments no actual ambition to win CL

No, I honestly think he would love to. I believe it's where he sees himself, this Colossus of football striding majestically across the European stage. But like everything else he wants to do it in a special way, a unique way, The Wenger Way. It's not enough just to win it, he has this preconceived idea how these things can be achieved (only by him though, others will adopt his blueprint in the years to come) and even though it has failed time & time again he will not give up on it because he is right, he is always right. That is why he is so genuinely baffled as to how Ranieri did what he did. Not so much that he did it, but how he did it. The fact that Ranieri could win games having less of the ball than the opposition is mystifying to him.

But that has now probably been shrugged off, dismissed as an aberration.......The Wenger Way will continue..... as will the Wenger failures.

I'm very wary of managers who have 'philosophies'.

A manager's job is to win matches and trophies, not to pursue a personal belief in how the game should be played. AW is the worst example, but Klopp and others seem wedded to a style of play that they refuse to change.
Ranieri changed tactics dramatically mid-season when he saw that Leics were conceding too many goals.

In any other walk of life if somebody pursued their philosophy, even if the results were poor they'd get fired. Wenger is like an army general who thinks his soldiers should wear red coats, line up neatly and walk slowly towards the enemy, even though the tanks the other bloke's got seem a bit more effective.

Philip Lahm this week described how, even at 30, he had learned a lot from the way Guardiola analysed his opponents,as a team and as individuals.
AW tells his players to go and play their game. 12 years without a title and still he won't change.

[OneBardGooner]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXKSjQdto0o