As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
MrT wrote:You mean the German league where they have one super club that wins everything every year? Or the Spanish league which has been a duopoly for fuck knows how long. Or the Italian league which has been shite for the best part of a decade playing to half empty stadiums?
The PL is the best league in terms of entertainment and general quality of football. Just because the top 3 clubs in the world have the best players does not make their respective leagues any better. Barca and Madrid tonk league teams 6,7,8 nil every other weekend. Munich do the same in theirs. Both leagues are piss poor.
We lost due to poor coaching and tactics, that simple. Any half decent manager could have beaten Iceland with that squad last night, but Hodgson isn't one.
Again you are confusing the subject at hand - yes the English league is far and away the most competitive, but in terms of quality it is light years behind. Bayern (being one of the wealthiest clubs in the world) are of course able to buy their league almost every season, but there are many clubs in the league that are developing players of sufficient quality that will go on to play for their country - how many of those Germany players were actually developed by Bayern ? Without looking in to it, I would suggest that the answer is fcuk all but yet they have a development plan in place for all the clubs and they were able to develop and coach young players to the ensure that there was going to be a regular flow of players coming through the german league
flash gunner wrote:If ever there was a need for a foreign manager to take over this is it, one preferably with knowledge of the English game, a 'professor' type maybe?
MrT wrote:You mean the German league where they have one super club that wins everything every year? Or the Spanish league which has been a duopoly for fuck knows how long. Or the Italian league which has been shite for the best part of a decade playing to half empty stadiums?
The PL is the best league in terms of entertainment and general quality of football. Just because the top 3 clubs in the world have the best players does not make their respective leagues any better. Barca and Madrid tonk league teams 6,7,8 nil every other weekend. Munich do the same in theirs. Both leagues are piss poor.
We lost due to poor coaching and tactics, that simple. Any half decent manager could have beaten Iceland with that squad last night, but Hodgson isn't one.
Too simplistic. Those leagues you deride produce international teams of players that mostly (to varying degrees) play within those leagues, having come up through their youth systems, and regularly do better than England in the world cup and Euros. Half empty stadiums or how boring a league is has no bearing on the technical level of the league. England have had many managers over the last 20 years and all have failed. It goes far deeper than "coaching and tactics" - do you honestly think that team last night would be that much better with a different manager (BTW, who, for example?) or different tactics, without addressing the fact you had players out there that cannot cross a ball or string more than 2 passes together at pace?
We are not talking about those leagues being "better" (whatever that means) but talking about them producing more accomplished technical players. Which they do.
It really isn't. How many times have we all said on here, if only we had a decent manager that understands coaching and tactics? You're really underestimating the power of an excellent coach. Take the Italian team, bang average technically throughout the squad but beat arguably the best team in the world despite barely having much possession, because he could motivate them beyond their natural ability and instilled a hunger to win.
I'm not sure who would be a good replacement. Whiskey nose would be my choice, but he would never take it because he said the England job was like a poisoned chalice and he's Scottish.
We can talk about grass roots football which obviously needs massive improvement since we don't create the quality of players that those countries do, fair enough. My point was the quality of those leagues itself is massively over inflated because there is a massive gulf between the top clubs and the rest of their league.
MrT wrote:You mean the German league where they have one super club that wins everything every year? Or the Spanish league which has been a duopoly for fuck knows how long. Or the Italian league which has been shite for the best part of a decade playing to half empty stadiums?
The PL is the best league in terms of entertainment and general quality of football. Just because the top 3 clubs in the world have the best players does not make their respective leagues any better. Barca and Madrid tonk league teams 6,7,8 nil every other weekend. Munich do the same in theirs. Both leagues are piss poor.
We lost due to poor coaching and tactics, that simple. Any half decent manager could have beaten Iceland with that squad last night, but Hodgson isn't one.
How much German football do you watch?
A fair bit. It's mostly shite and tedious to watch. Serie A is much worse, though.
As embarrising as the result was ,watching spurs players having another meltdown was pure fucking mental fun and almost worth applauding the defeat !
The pub I was in people were going apeshit but the Arsenal fans soon saw the funny side especially as Vardy also seemed to look a tad jaded !
Wilsheres still working on his matchfitness so all in all its a result I can live with !
Woy resigning was a bonus !
Herd wrote:As embarrising as the result was ,watching spurs players having another meltdown was pure fucking mental fun and almost worth applauding the defeat !
The pub I was in people were going apeshit but the Arsenal fans soon saw the funny side especially as Vardy also seemed to look a tad jaded !
Wilsheres still working on his matchfitness so all in all its a result I can live with !
Woy resigning was a bonus !
Have to admit watching the devastation on the faces of the vermin players brought a warm glow to my heart and a broad smile too!
MrT wrote:You mean the German league where they have one super club that wins everything every year? Or the Spanish league which has been a duopoly for fuck knows how long. Or the Italian league which has been shite for the best part of a decade playing to half empty stadiums?
The PL is the best league in terms of entertainment and general quality of football. Just because the top 3 clubs in the world have the best players does not make their respective leagues any better. Barca and Madrid tonk league teams 6,7,8 nil every other weekend. Munich do the same in theirs. Both leagues are piss poor.
We lost due to poor coaching and tactics, that simple. Any half decent manager could have beaten Iceland with that squad last night, but Hodgson isn't one.
Again you are confusing the subject at hand - yes the English league is far and away the most competitive, but in terms of quality it is light years behind. Bayern (being one of the wealthiest clubs in the world) are of course able to buy their league almost every season, but there are many clubs in the league that are developing players of sufficient quality that will go on to play for their country - how many of those Germany players were actually developed by Bayern ? Without looking in to it, I would suggest that the answer is fcuk all but yet they have a development plan in place for all the clubs and they were able to develop and coach young players to the ensure that there was going to be a regular flow of players coming through the german league
I fully understood your point, I am in agreement with you that the home grown talent we produce in comparison to them is far behind. My point was people digging out the PL and saying those rival leagues are better in terms of technical ability and general quality, which of course is bullshit because of the massive difference between Bayern and the rest of the league, for example.
There isn't a need for a great dissection of what went wrong. Simply, wrong players in wrong system, with the wrong manager. English players are as good as any in Europe, they just can't take the pressure of playing for England in tournament football. More need to play abroad.
MrT wrote:You mean the German league where they have one super club that wins everything every year? Or the Spanish league which has been a duopoly for fuck knows how long. Or the Italian league which has been shite for the best part of a decade playing to half empty stadiums?
The PL is the best league in terms of entertainment and general quality of football. Just because the top 3 clubs in the world have the best players does not make their respective leagues any better. Barca and Madrid tonk league teams 6,7,8 nil every other weekend. Munich do the same in theirs. Both leagues are piss poor.
We lost due to poor coaching and tactics, that simple. Any half decent manager could have beaten Iceland with that squad last night, but Hodgson isn't one.
Too simplistic. Those leagues you deride produce international teams of players that mostly (to varying degrees) play within those leagues, having come up through their youth systems, and regularly do better than England in the world cup and Euros. Half empty stadiums or how boring a league is has no bearing on the technical level of the league. England have had many managers over the last 20 years and all have failed. It goes far deeper than "coaching and tactics" - do you honestly think that team last night would be that much better with a different manager (BTW, who, for example?) or different tactics, without addressing the fact you had players out there that cannot cross a ball or string more than 2 passes together at pace?
We are not talking about those leagues being "better" (whatever that means) but talking about them producing more accomplished technical players. Which they do.
It really isn't. How many times have we all said on here, if only we had a decent manager that understands coaching and tactics? You're really underestimating the power of an excellent coach. Take the Italian team, bang average technically throughout the squad but beat arguably the best team in the world despite barely having much possession, because he could motivate them beyond their natural ability and instilled a hunger to win.
I'm not sure who would be a good replacement. Whiskey nose would be my choice, but he would never take it because he said the England job was like a poisoned chalice and he's Scottish.
We can talk about grass roots football which obviously needs massive improvement since we don't create the quality of players that those countries do, fair enough. My point was the quality of those leagues itself is massively over inflated because there is a massive gulf between the top clubs and the rest of their league.
Accepted, this is not the greatest Italian side ever, but most of their first choice players are still ahead of their English/Irish/Scottish/Welsh counterparts in the technical aspects of the game. Over say the last 20 years though they have produced interlull team after team that were far ahead of England on a technical ability level.
For me, a decent pragmatic modern manager with a decent grasp of coaching and tactics is of course a necessity, but it is not enough if the players are at a lower technical level than the likes of Spain, Germany, Italy etc.
I also agree the quality of those leagues is over exaggerated (particularly in the media), and so is the quality of the PL - but those leagues are repeatedly decade after decade producing better interlull teams than England do.
Nos89 wrote:There isn't a need for a great dissection of what went wrong. Simply, wrong players in wrong system, with the wrong manager. English players are as good as any in Europe, they just can't take the pressure of playing for England in tournament football. More need to play abroad.
You cannot seriously believe that! I'm loathe to get into having a pop at the league I love and follow, but seriously?! Kane? Cannot cross a dead ball into a box or hit a decent free kick. Rose and Walker? Unintelligent poor technical players with little to no end product. Milner? Journeyman "trier" with huge limitations. Smalling? Hoofer. Sturridge? Flash poser with ideas beyond his limited ability. Sterling? Like Walcott - should be a sprinter not a footballer. Christ, the list goes on.
Have to admit watching the devastation on the faces of the vermin players brought a warm glow to my heart and a broad smile too!
"Golden Generation" of spurs players??!! Golden Shower, more like!
The way their season ended and now this ? They are mentally fcuked and Im I think it will take a lot of coming back from !
The English players are made to look good in the PL by the foreigners around them and start believing their own hype, it's as simple as that. Come World Cup/Euro time, they're cruelly exposed for what they are - bang average, overpaid wankers.
Add a clueless, inept manager and the typical media/fan arrogance ("We're England, they're Iceland" type bollox) into the mix and you're asking to be humiliated.
I thoroughly enjoyed watching the Spuds players getting a reality check... for the second time this season
I'm loathe to get into having a pop at the league I love and follow, but seriously?! Kane? Cannot cross a dead ball into a box or hit a decent free kick. Rose and Walker? Unintelligent poor technical players with little to no end product. Milner? Journeyman "trier" with huge limitations. Smalling? Hoofer. Sturridge? Flash poser with ideas beyond his limited ability. Sterling? Like Walcott - should be a sprinter not a footballer. Christ, the list goes on.