The ONLY Euro 2016 thread

[GranadaJoe]

There isn't a need for a great dissection of what went wrong. Simply, wrong players in wrong system, with the wrong manager. English players are as good as any in Europe, they just can't take the pressure of playing for England in tournament football. More need to play abroad.

I completely disagree.

If they were the wrong players, which players should be in the team. Which of our players would be starters for Spain, Germany, Italy, France etc? Our players are not good enough. All season the media wankfest over Kane, Alli, Vardy etc seems to have convinced a lot of people they were worldbeaters. We've just seen how good they really are.

Wrong system? Roy had two systems, neither of which worked. Three at the back, the good old 4-4-2, what could we change to?

I don't think any manager would do much better. The media made Rooney undroppable. The English media made him out to be up there with Messi and Ladyboy, but imo he's nothing special. A stronger manager may have had the balls to drop him, but who do you pick in his place? Jack, Henderson?
Motivation?!! You're representing your fucking country!! You shouldn't need anybody else to convince you to sweat blood and lay your body on the line.

The PL is the most exciting, competitive league in the world, but its superstars are Aguero, Alexis, Ozil, Hazard, Courtois, Willian, Silva etc. I don't think there are any English players on a par with them.
The riches of the PL attract the best players from abroad and make average English players millionaires before their balls drop, but it doesn't create good players.

[DB10GOONER]

There isn't a need for a great dissection of what went wrong. Simply, wrong players in wrong system, with the wrong manager. English players are as good as any in Europe, they just can't take the pressure of playing for England in tournament football. More need to play abroad.

I completely disagree.

If they were the wrong players, which players should be in the team. Which of our players would be starters for Spain, Germany, Italy, France etc? Our players are not good enough. All season the media wankfest over Kane, Alli, Vardy etc seems to have convinced a lot of people they were worldbeaters. We've just seen how good they really are.

Wrong system? Roy had two systems, neither of which worked. Three at the back, the good old 4-4-2, what could we change to?

I don't think any manager would do much better. The media made Rooney undroppable. The English media made him out to be up there with Messi and Ladyboy, but imo he's nothing special. A stronger manager may have had the balls to drop him, but who do you pick in his place? Jack, Henderson?
Motivation?!! You're representing your fucking country!! You shouldn't need anybody else to convince you to sweat blood and lay your body on the line.

The PL is the most exciting, competitive league in the world, but its superstars are Aguero, Alexis, Ozil, Hazard, Courtois, Willian, Silva etc. I don't think there are any English players on a par with them.
The riches of the PL attract the best players from abroad and make average English players millionaires before their balls drop, but it doesn't create good players.

Have to say Joe, you may have your head rammed right up your own arse when it comes to music ( ), but that is a very succinct and bang-on assessment of the state of things for England and the PL (unfortunately).

[Nos89]

There isn't a need for a great dissection of what went wrong. Simply, wrong players in wrong system, with the wrong manager. English players are as good as any in Europe, they just can't take the pressure of playing for England in tournament football. More need to play abroad.

I completely disagree.

If they were the wrong players, which players should be in the team. Which of our players would be starters for Spain, Germany, Italy, France etc? Our players are not good enough. All season the media wankfest over Kane, Alli, Vardy etc seems to have convinced a lot of people they were worldbeaters. We've just seen how good they really are.

Wrong system? Roy had two systems, neither of which worked. Three at the back, the good old 4-4-2, what could we change to?

I don't think any manager would do much better. The media made Rooney undroppable. The English media made him out to be up there with Messi and Ladyboy, but imo he's nothing special. A stronger manager may have had the balls to drop him, but who do you pick in his place? Jack, Henderson?
Motivation?!! You're representing your fucking country!! You shouldn't need anybody else to convince you to sweat blood and lay your body on the line.

The PL is the most exciting, competitive league in the world, but its superstars are Aguero, Alexis, Ozil, Hazard, Courtois, Willian, Silva etc. I don't think there are any English players on a par with them.
The riches of the PL attract the best players from abroad and make average English players millionaires before their balls drop, but it doesn't create good players.

Completely disagree??

You've slated the players, slated the manager and stated the 2 systems did not work. So, we're in total agreement then.

[augie]

There isn't a need for a great dissection of what went wrong. Simply, wrong players in wrong system, with the wrong manager. English players are as good as any in Europe, they just can't take the pressure of playing for England in tournament football. More need to play abroad.

No I'm not having that - rooney letting a ball run under his foot, kane taking a free kick that was nearer to the corner flag than the goals, rooney crossing a ball that lands haly way up into the stand, hart letting in a soft daisy cutter..........these are all basic stupid mistakes that cannot be attributed to the manager and it bears out what I said about how the players are every bit (or more) culpable as the manager.

What I will agree with is your point that English players cannot handle pressure and how they should try playing abroad as well - not handling the pressure baffles me because engerland, for a country of it's size, has no real tradition of winning so where does the pressure stem from ?

[augie]

There isn't a need for a great dissection of what went wrong. Simply, wrong players in wrong system, with the wrong manager. English players are as good as any in Europe, they just can't take the pressure of playing for England in tournament football. More need to play abroad.

I completely disagree.

If they were the wrong players, which players should be in the team. Which of our players would be starters for Spain, Germany, Italy, France etc? Our players are not good enough. All season the media wankfest over Kane, Alli, Vardy etc seems to have convinced a lot of people they were worldbeaters. We've just seen how good they really are.

Wrong system? Roy had two systems, neither of which worked. Three at the back, the good old 4-4-2, what could we change to?

I don't think any manager would do much better. The media made Rooney undroppable. The English media made him out to be up there with Messi and Ladyboy, but imo he's nothing special. A stronger manager may have had the balls to drop him, but who do you pick in his place? Jack, Henderson?
Motivation?!! You're representing your fucking country!! You shouldn't need anybody else to convince you to sweat blood and lay your body on the line.

The PL is the most exciting, competitive league in the world, but its superstars are Aguero, Alexis, Ozil, Hazard, Courtois, Willian, Silva etc. I don't think there are any English players on a par with them.
The riches of the PL attract the best players from abroad and make average English players millionaires before their balls drop, but it doesn't create good players.

Completely disagree??

You've slated the players, slated the manager and stated the 2 systems did not work. So, we're in total agreement then.

Yes but you defended the players and said that they are as good as any players in Europe - you didn't agree really

[GranadaJoe]

There isn't a need for a great dissection of what went wrong. Simply, wrong players in wrong system, with the wrong manager. English players are as good as any in Europe, they just can't take the pressure of playing for England in tournament football. More need to play abroad.

I completely disagree.

If they were the wrong players, which players should be in the team. Which of our players would be starters for Spain, Germany, Italy, France etc? Our players are not good enough. All season the media wankfest over Kane, Alli, Vardy etc seems to have convinced a lot of people they were worldbeaters. We've just seen how good they really are.

Wrong system? Roy had two systems, neither of which worked. Three at the back, the good old 4-4-2, what could we change to?

I don't think any manager would do much better. The media made Rooney undroppable. The English media made him out to be up there with Messi and Ladyboy, but imo he's nothing special. A stronger manager may have had the balls to drop him, but who do you pick in his place? Jack, Henderson?
Motivation?!! You're representing your fucking country!! You shouldn't need anybody else to convince you to sweat blood and lay your body on the line.

The PL is the most exciting, competitive league in the world, but its superstars are Aguero, Alexis, Ozil, Hazard, Courtois, Willian, Silva etc. I don't think there are any English players on a par with them.
The riches of the PL attract the best players from abroad and make average English players millionaires before their balls drop, but it doesn't create good players.

Completely disagree??

You've slated the players, slated the manager and stated the 2 systems did not work. So, we're in total agreement then.

No. We're not.

You said 'wrong players, wrong system, wrong manager'

My point is that there aren't better players, nor a better system, nor any obviously better manager.

You said our players are as good as any in Europe. I completely disagree.

[Nos89]

There isn't a need for a great dissection of what went wrong. Simply, wrong players in wrong system, with the wrong manager. English players are as good as any in Europe, they just can't take the pressure of playing for England in tournament football. More need to play abroad.

You cannot seriously believe that! I'm loathe to get into having a pop at the league I love and follow, but seriously?! Kane? Cannot cross a dead ball into a box or hit a decent free kick. Rose and Walker? Unintelligent poor technical players with little to no end product. Milner? Journeyman "trier" with huge limitations. Smalling? Hoofer. Sturridge? Flash poser with ideas beyond his limited ability. Sterling? Like Walcott - should be a sprinter not a footballer. Christ, the list goes on.

Okay, let me refine that. English players are as good technically as most players in Europe, but as a collective they struggle to perform together due their lack of mental ability to cope with the pressure of playing for England in a tournament.
Like it or not Vardy and Kane were amongst the leading scorers in Europe last season. Kane visibly had a meltdown on that pitch last night, that was tragic as it was expected.
Last night I saw a team too scared to show their true capability, too scared to try something different. Rashford was England's motm. He's shown he's not scared and hopefully there is a batch of English players coming through that use their brains as well as their feet.

[DB10GOONER]

There isn't a need for a great dissection of what went wrong. Simply, wrong players in wrong system, with the wrong manager. English players are as good as any in Europe, they just can't take the pressure of playing for England in tournament football. More need to play abroad.

You cannot seriously believe that! I'm loathe to get into having a pop at the league I love and follow, but seriously?! Kane? Cannot cross a dead ball into a box or hit a decent free kick. Rose and Walker? Unintelligent poor technical players with little to no end product. Milner? Journeyman "trier" with huge limitations. Smalling? Hoofer. Sturridge? Flash poser with ideas beyond his limited ability. Sterling? Like Walcott - should be a sprinter not a footballer. Christ, the list goes on.

Okay, let me refine that. English players are as good technically as most players in Europe, but as a collective they struggle to perform together due their lack of mental ability to cope with the pressure of playing for England in a tournament.
Like it or not Vardy and Kane were amongst the leading scorers in Europe last season. Kane visibly had a meltdown on that pitch last night, that was tragic as it was expected.
Last night I saw a team too scared to show their true capability, too scared to try something different. Rashford was England's motm. He's shown he's not scared and hopefully there is a batch of English players coming through that use their brains as well as their feet.

In all honesty though Kane has been terrible all tournament. He looks a pale imitation of the player he was in the PL. Is that maybe something to do with playing against (mostly) better, technically more astute players at interlull level than he does at PL level most weeks? I honestly thinks so.

It's symptomatic that Rashford is being singled out by so many people for praise based on 7 minutes of huffing and puffing but with little to no real return on his efforts. Yes he at least tried to create something but did he score the all important equaliser or put in the game changing assist? Nope. He won a couple of throw-ins and a corner and lost possession too easily twice. If that makes him MOTM then it says all that needs to be said about the rest of the English players tbh.

[GranadaJoe]

There isn't a need for a great dissection of what went wrong. Simply, wrong players in wrong system, with the wrong manager. English players are as good as any in Europe, they just can't take the pressure of playing for England in tournament football. More need to play abroad.

You cannot seriously believe that! I'm loathe to get into having a pop at the league I love and follow, but seriously?! Kane? Cannot cross a dead ball into a box or hit a decent free kick. Rose and Walker? Unintelligent poor technical players with little to no end product. Milner? Journeyman "trier" with huge limitations. Smalling? Hoofer. Sturridge? Flash poser with ideas beyond his limited ability. Sterling? Like Walcott - should be a sprinter not a footballer. Christ, the list goes on.

Okay, let me refine that. English players are as good technically as most players in Europe, but as a collective they struggle to perform together due their lack of mental ability to cope with the pressure of playing for England in a tournament.
Like it or not Vardy and Kane were amongst the leading scorers in Europe last season. Kane visibly had a meltdown on that pitch last night, that was tragic as it was expected.
Last night I saw a team too scared to show their true capability, too scared to try something different. Rashford was England's motm. He's shown he's not scared and hopefully there is a batch of English players coming through that use their brains as well as their feet.

I'm not trying to be deliberately argumentative, but 'as good technically'?

Which of our players would be a starter for another 'big' nation? Seriously, who would Spain, Germany, Italy, France, Belgium ... Iceland love to have in their team?

I don't know about other countries, but here in Spain there was controversy over players not picked (Saul Niguez, Santi, Mata, Isco, Costa, Sergi Roberto, Bartra, Jesé, Javi Martinez).
Who did England leave at home? Journalists struggled to discuss anybody. The nearest they came was Andy Carroll and Defoe in attack and Jagielka in defence.

All players can do good things technically sometimes, but can they do it consistently and under pressure?

[augie]

One of the pundits on sky (think it was smudger) said something that hit the nail bang on the head.........England need to figure out their identity first and foremost - back in the dark old days, engerland was a pre-historic long ball team but you knew what you were getting with them. Nowadays they want to be a technical football team but neither have the players nor the patience to implement the system - English football is built around speed, but speed and the type of technical football required to win big international tournaments are not compatible

[Redarmy]

There isn't a need for a great dissection of what went wrong. Simply, wrong players in wrong system, with the wrong manager. English players are as good as any in Europe, they just can't take the pressure of playing for England in tournament football. More need to play abroad.

No I'm not having that - rooney letting a ball run under his foot, kane taking a free kick that was nearer to the corner flag than the goals, rooney crossing a ball that lands haly way up into the stand, hart letting in a soft daisy cutter..........these are all basic stupid mistakes that cannot be attributed to the manager and it bears out what I said about how the players are every bit (or more) culpable as the manager.

What I will agree with is your point that English players cannot handle pressure and how they should try playing abroad as well - not handling the pressure baffles me because engerland, for a country of it's size, has no real tradition of winning so where does the pressure stem from ?

Off course you are correct as regards individual mistakes, but the energetic pressing of the Iceland team and the fact that we were so disjointed tactically, really think the players became lost, (which is a great surprise as we knew how they would play) no real game plan unlike Iceland...but these are experienced International players and must take the "Lions" share of the blame

Just like watching the Arsenal in round 16 of the CL

[Topside Northbank]

England were never going to win the tournament granted but I have to say last night was awful,comically bad players scared to get on the ball and the basic fundamentals lacking.Iceland were magnificent every player knew their role and no one hid the opposite would be said of the England side.
Before the game width was talked about so Sterling (awful player 49m lol) playing on the left but right footed and Sturridge on the right but left footed and totally one footed ? Four games in and you don't know your best team Rooney declining striker played in midfield alongside two overrated Spuds.

The media and players can use all the reasons,excuses under the sun but the one about the pressure of playing for England farcical.....and they don't think it's just as bad in Germany,Italy France or Spain?Delusional further afield go play for Brazil or Argentina they play under real fan and media pressure.

That England team had no leaders on or off the pitch they went behind they panicked and looked for others to step up to the plate.

[Nos89]

There isn't a need for a great dissection of what went wrong. Simply, wrong players in wrong system, with the wrong manager. English players are as good as any in Europe, they just can't take the pressure of playing for England in tournament football. More need to play abroad.

You cannot seriously believe that! I'm loathe to get into having a pop at the league I love and follow, but seriously?! Kane? Cannot cross a dead ball into a box or hit a decent free kick. Rose and Walker? Unintelligent poor technical players with little to no end product. Milner? Journeyman "trier" with huge limitations. Smalling? Hoofer. Sturridge? Flash poser with ideas beyond his limited ability. Sterling? Like Walcott - should be a sprinter not a footballer. Christ, the list goes on.

Okay, let me refine that. English players are as good technically as most players in Europe, but as a collective they struggle to perform together due their lack of mental ability to cope with the pressure of playing for England in a tournament.
Like it or not Vardy and Kane were amongst the leading scorers in Europe last season. Kane visibly had a meltdown on that pitch last night, that was tragic as it was expected.
Last night I saw a team too scared to show their true capability, too scared to try something different. Rashford was England's motm. He's shown he's not scared and hopefully there is a batch of English players coming through that use their brains as well as their feet.

I'm not trying to be deliberately argumentative, but 'as good technically'?

Which of our players would be a starter for another 'big' nation? Seriously, who would Spain, Germany, Italy, France, Belgium ... Iceland love to have in their team?

I don't know about other countries, but here in Spain there was controversy over players not picked (Saul Niguez, Santi, Mata, Isco, Costa, Sergi Roberto, Bartra, Jesé, Javi Martinez).
Who did England leave at home? Journalists struggled to discuss anybody. The nearest they came was Andy Carroll and Defoe in attack and Jagielka in defence.

All players can do good things technically sometimes, but can they do it consistently and under pressure?

No the current batch of English players cannot perform to their technical level when the pressure is on.
We're producing players that are technically as good as those of Spain, Germany, Italy and France but expecting them to play to old fashioned English style of play. Over here Sturridge, Sterling and Alli are called "fancy Dan's" in Europe they are called gifted or talented players. We are lacking the mentality to perform under pressure and that one player that can turn a match with a touch of genius.

[Nos89]

There isn't a need for a great dissection of what went wrong. Simply, wrong players in wrong system, with the wrong manager. English players are as good as any in Europe, they just can't take the pressure of playing for England in tournament football. More need to play abroad.

No I'm not having that - rooney letting a ball run under his foot, kane taking a free kick that was nearer to the corner flag than the goals, rooney crossing a ball that lands haly way up into the stand, hart letting in a soft daisy cutter..........these are all basic stupid mistakes that cannot be attributed to the manager and it bears out what I said about how the players are every bit (or more) culpable as the manager.

What I will agree with is your point that English players cannot handle pressure and how they should try playing abroad as well - not handling the pressure baffles me because engerland, for a country of it's size, has no real tradition of winning so where does the pressure stem from ?

Stupid mistakes that were happening towards the end of the match when the pressure was on to score and those players simply couldn't handle it and made those silly mistakes.
I'd like to know which footballs they were training with as every cross and free kick was overhit against both Slovakia and Iceland.

[Ed Hunter The Gooner]

You guys have good arguments all of you, but what do you think about this. Why England does so well in qualifications but always fail in the tournament? In qualifications they have basically the same players and same system. Could it be that compared to any other major league the English one is long and very wearing? All other leagues have one to two month winter break while in England they play huge amount of games. It must be difficult for the players to adapt after long season. When season ends they begin long preparations to the tournament and I'd believe it is hard to get back to peak form that is required in the tournament to do well. They are humans after all and not robots. I have always thought about this and could it be that the fuel just runs out after long season?