RIP Thread

[DB10GOONER]

France has a Muslim population nearing 10% largely made up of North Africans. Whilst in itself this is not a problem I would imagine that the number radicalised is higher than in the U.k for instance where the population is nearer 4.5 % . It's a question of numbers and convenience i.e easier to get the materials closer to home. However a lorry per se is easy to get anywhere but the armaments found in it not so much. Other European countries have higher percentages but not so much from Africa as from the East , Turkey , the Balkans for instance. Another human tragedy borne on the back of differing religions and their quest for domination of the people.

Modern religions have gotten it very wrong for too long IMHO. I think there is a place for religion, for faith, for spirituality, but the religion should serve the good of the people, not the people slavishly serving the religion.

[GranadaJoe]

France has a Muslim population nearing 10% largely made up of North Africans. Whilst in itself this is not a problem I would imagine that the number radicalised is higher than in the U.k for instance where the population is nearer 4.5 % . It's a question of numbers and convenience i.e easier to get the materials closer to home. However a lorry per se is easy to get anywhere but the armaments found in it not so much. Other European countries have higher percentages but not so much from Africa as from the East , Turkey , the Balkans for instance. Another human tragedy borne on the back of differing religions and their quest for domination of the people.

Modern religions have gotten it very wrong for too long IMHO. I think there is a place for religion, for faith, for spirituality, but the religion should serve the good of the people, not the people slavishly serving the religion.

All religions are invented bollocks.
They may have been useful once upon a time for explaining diseases, earthquakes etc, for controlling the population and maintaining order (as well as subjugating women and persecuting minorities), but they should have gone the same way as the Flat-earthers, Earth is centre of the universe believers etc.

[OneBardGooner]

France has a Muslim population nearing 10% largely made up of North Africans. Whilst in itself this is not a problem I would imagine that the number radicalised is higher than in the U.k for instance where the population is nearer 4.5 % . It's a question of numbers and convenience i.e easier to get the materials closer to home. However a lorry per se is easy to get anywhere but the armaments found in it not so much. Other European countries have higher percentages but not so much from Africa as from the East , Turkey , the Balkans for instance. Another human tragedy borne on the back of differing religions and their quest for domination of the people.

Modern religions have gotten it very wrong for too long IMHO. I think there is a place for religion, for faith, for spirituality, but the religion should serve the good of the people, not the people slavishly serving the religion.

All religions are invented bollocks.
They may have been useful once upon a time for explaining diseases, earthquakes etc, for controlling the population and maintaining order (as well as subjugating women and persecuting minorities), but they should have gone the same way as the Flat-earthers, Earth is centre of the universe believers etc.

Since time began the various religions have been used as a means by which to inflict harm and hurt on others just because they have different beliefs and views. Even now so called believers of a particualr faith or in their preferred god go to war against others, All in the name of some so-called god

Religions were and are still used to hold power and dominion over people often through 'fear' the old fear of 'heaven and hell'- The very fact that even in this (so called) modern age the roman catholic church still advocates that Birth Control Methods are against the will of god which means that many third world people who follow the christian faith will not use condoms and other methods of birth control - and so the spread of sexually transmitted diseases continues un-abated and children still being born into poverty; many of whom face death through a combination of hunger & disease before they are 10 years of age - whilst the pope and all those connected with the vatican live in the lap of luxury.
The church of england is the largest owner of property in the UK, yet are always claiming poverty and asking for charitable donations to mend the roofs and windows of the local church etc
Same goes for the muslims - families in poverty having to go to food banks whilst the imams dress well, eat well and drive very expensive cars. (those I have met and know of anyway) - I have no problem with someone who has a faith they follow or if they want to have a religious centre within their lives - as long as they do not ask or try to force their religion and its ways and views on others.

Yeah religions are a load of Bollocks.

The most genuinely good and kind hearted people I have met have been non-religious people, both in their generosity, in the way they lead their lives and in how they treat others - Spiritual people yes - But religious - No.

[DB10GOONER]

Wayno RIP. One of our own from the good old days of this forum.

[DB10GOONER]

France has a Muslim population nearing 10% largely made up of North Africans. Whilst in itself this is not a problem I would imagine that the number radicalised is higher than in the U.k for instance where the population is nearer 4.5 % . It's a question of numbers and convenience i.e easier to get the materials closer to home. However a lorry per se is easy to get anywhere but the armaments found in it not so much. Other European countries have higher percentages but not so much from Africa as from the East , Turkey , the Balkans for instance. Another human tragedy borne on the back of differing religions and their quest for domination of the people.

Modern religions have gotten it very wrong for too long IMHO. I think there is a place for religion, for faith, for spirituality, but the religion should serve the good of the people, not the people slavishly serving the religion.

All religions are invented bollocks.
They may have been useful once upon a time for explaining diseases, earthquakes etc, for controlling the population and maintaining order (as well as subjugating women and persecuting minorities), but they should have gone the same way as the Flat-earthers, Earth is centre of the universe believers etc.

Since time began the various religions have been used as a means by which to inflict harm and hurt on others just because they have different beliefs and views. Even now so called believers of a particualr faith or in their preferred god go to war against others, All in the name of some so-called god

Religions were and are still used to hold power and dominion over people often through 'fear' the old fear of 'heaven and hell'- The very fact that even in this (so called) modern age the roman catholic church still advocates that Birth Control Methods are against the will of god which means that many third world people who follow the christian faith will not use condoms and other methods of birth control - and so the spread of sexually transmitted diseases continues un-abated and children still being born into poverty; many of whom face death through a combination of hunger & disease before they are 10 years of age - whilst the pope and all those connected with the vatican live in the lap of luxury.
The church of england is the largest owner of property in the UK, yet are always claiming poverty and asking for charitable donations to mend the roofs and windows of the local church etc
Same goes for the muslims - families in poverty having to go to food banks whilst the imams dress well, eat well and drive very expensive cars. (those I have met and know of anyway) - I have no problem with someone who has a faith they follow or if they want to have a religious centre within their lives - as long as they do not ask or try to force their religion and its ways and views on others.

Yeah religions are a load of Bollocks.

The most genuinely good and kind hearted people I have met have been non-religious people, both in their generosity, in the way they lead their lives and in how they treat others - Spiritual people yes - But religious - No.

No, can't agree with either of you fully. Of course there have been and still are evil and corrupt sides to all religions and always will be once fallible human beings are involved - that can be said about almost any belief system. But there are also millions of decent people around the world that use various religions for spirituality and moral guidance and that is the way it should be - religion should serve mankind, not mankind slavishly serving religion.

[GranadaJoe]

France has a Muslim population nearing 10% largely made up of North Africans. Whilst in itself this is not a problem I would imagine that the number radicalised is higher than in the U.k for instance where the population is nearer 4.5 % . It's a question of numbers and convenience i.e easier to get the materials closer to home. However a lorry per se is easy to get anywhere but the armaments found in it not so much. Other European countries have higher percentages but not so much from Africa as from the East , Turkey , the Balkans for instance. Another human tragedy borne on the back of differing religions and their quest for domination of the people.

Modern religions have gotten it very wrong for too long IMHO. I think there is a place for religion, for faith, for spirituality, but the religion should serve the good of the people, not the people slavishly serving the religion.

All religions are invented bollocks.
They may have been useful once upon a time for explaining diseases, earthquakes etc, for controlling the population and maintaining order (as well as subjugating women and persecuting minorities), but they should have gone the same way as the Flat-earthers, Earth is centre of the universe believers etc.

Since time began the various religions have been used as a means by which to inflict harm and hurt on others just because they have different beliefs and views. Even now so called believers of a particualr faith or in their preferred god go to war against others, All in the name of some so-called god

Religions were and are still used to hold power and dominion over people often through 'fear' the old fear of 'heaven and hell'- The very fact that even in this (so called) modern age the roman catholic church still advocates that Birth Control Methods are against the will of god which means that many third world people who follow the christian faith will not use condoms and other methods of birth control - and so the spread of sexually transmitted diseases continues un-abated and children still being born into poverty; many of whom face death through a combination of hunger & disease before they are 10 years of age - whilst the pope and all those connected with the vatican live in the lap of luxury.
The church of england is the largest owner of property in the UK, yet are always claiming poverty and asking for charitable donations to mend the roofs and windows of the local church etc
Same goes for the muslims - families in poverty having to go to food banks whilst the imams dress well, eat well and drive very expensive cars. (those I have met and know of anyway) - I have no problem with someone who has a faith they follow or if they want to have a religious centre within their lives - as long as they do not ask or try to force their religion and its ways and views on others.

Yeah religions are a load of Bollocks.

The most genuinely good and kind hearted people I have met have been non-religious people, both in their generosity, in the way they lead their lives and in how they treat others - Spiritual people yes - But religious - No.

No, can't agree with either of you fully. Of course there have been and still are evil and corrupt sides to all religions and always will be once fallible human beings are involved - that can be said about almost any belief system. But there are also millions of decent people around the world that use various religions for spirituality and moral guidance and that is the way it should be - religion should serve mankind, not mankind slavishly serving religion.

It depends whether you think it's OK to believe in a lie, although I'd argue that even if you're happy to believe in magic men in the sky, religion is evil.

I particularly hate the way that religions brainwash the young and use stories of hell and torment to make them obey. Why are the Catholics in Ireland, the Muslims in Arabia and the Hindus in India. It's nothing to do with free will or 'spirituality'. It's because that's what their parents, schools and churches told them they had to believe.

The religion and morality point doesn't stand up to scrutiny. People can be and are moral without religion. Moreover, religions are not moral. Most are quite OK with slavery. For every 'bring the children unto me' there is a 'spare the rod and spoil the child'. Islam advocates death for apostates. Hindu wives are burnt along with their dead husbands. Catholic babies are 'born in sin'.

All religions discriminate against women, homosexuals etc and they interfere in the minutiae of your life. Chop of that foreskin, cover your head, separate girls and boys, ... the list is endless.

They all claim they are the chosen ones and all non-believers are condemned to hell. The biggest religious sects are catholicism and sunni islam. They both think that over six billion of the world's population should/will burn for eternity. Nice.

Also, what is spirituality? When people try to define it it just sounds like hippy religion (search for meaning, connection with something bigger than ourselves ..)

I think the one thing that church membership can offer is the opportunity to make friends, a sense of belonging and a support structure, but I think the coercion, self-delusion, discrimination and bad practices are too big a price to pay.

[StuartL]

Modern religions have gotten it very wrong for too long IMHO. I think there is a place for religion, for faith, for spirituality, but the religion should serve the good of the people, not the people slavishly serving the religion.

All religions are invented bollocks.
They may have been useful once upon a time for explaining diseases, earthquakes etc, for controlling the population and maintaining order (as well as subjugating women and persecuting minorities), but they should have gone the same way as the Flat-earthers, Earth is centre of the universe believers etc.

Since time began the various religions have been used as a means by which to inflict harm and hurt on others just because they have different beliefs and views. Even now so called believers of a particualr faith or in their preferred god go to war against others, All in the name of some so-called god

Religions were and are still used to hold power and dominion over people often through 'fear' the old fear of 'heaven and hell'- The very fact that even in this (so called) modern age the roman catholic church still advocates that Birth Control Methods are against the will of god which means that many third world people who follow the christian faith will not use condoms and other methods of birth control - and so the spread of sexually transmitted diseases continues un-abated and children still being born into poverty; many of whom face death through a combination of hunger & disease before they are 10 years of age - whilst the pope and all those connected with the vatican live in the lap of luxury.
The church of england is the largest owner of property in the UK, yet are always claiming poverty and asking for charitable donations to mend the roofs and windows of the local church etc
Same goes for the muslims - families in poverty having to go to food banks whilst the imams dress well, eat well and drive very expensive cars. (those I have met and know of anyway) - I have no problem with someone who has a faith they follow or if they want to have a religious centre within their lives - as long as they do not ask or try to force their religion and its ways and views on others.

Yeah religions are a load of Bollocks.

The most genuinely good and kind hearted people I have met have been non-religious people, both in their generosity, in the way they lead their lives and in how they treat others - Spiritual people yes - But religious - No.

No, can't agree with either of you fully. Of course there have been and still are evil and corrupt sides to all religions and always will be once fallible human beings are involved - that can be said about almost any belief system. But there are also millions of decent people around the world that use various religions for spirituality and moral guidance and that is the way it should be - religion should serve mankind, not mankind slavishly serving religion.

It depends whether you think it's OK to believe in a lie, although I'd argue that even if you're happy to believe in magic men in the sky, religion is evil.

I particularly hate the way that religions brainwash the young and use stories of hell and torment to make them obey. Why are the Catholics in Ireland, the Muslims in Arabia and the Hindus in India. It's nothing to do with free will or 'spirituality'. It's because that's what their parents, schools and churches told them they had to believe.

The religion and morality point doesn't stand up to scrutiny. People can be and are moral without religion. Moreover, religions are not moral. Most are quite OK with slavery. For every 'bring the children unto me' there is a 'spare the rod and spoil the child'. Islam advocates death for apostates. Hindu wives are burnt along with their dead husbands. Catholic babies are 'born in sin'.

All religions discriminate against women, homosexuals etc and they interfere in the minutiae of your life. Chop of that foreskin, cover your head, separate girls and boys, ... the list is endless.

They all claim they are the chosen ones and all non-believers are condemned to hell. The biggest religious sects are catholicism and sunni islam. They both think that over six billion of the world's population should/will burn for eternity. Nice.

Also, what is spirituality? When people try to define it it just sounds like hippy religion (search for meaning, connection with something bigger than ourselves ..)

I think the one thing that church membership can offer is the opportunity to make friends, a sense of belonging and a support structure, but I think the coercion, self-delusion, discrimination and bad practices are too big a price to pay.

Throw in the fact that they expect their members to pay money to pay for the upkeep of their church's despite most religions being awash with dosh (yet another way to keep the masses under control)

[DB10GOONER]

Modern religions have gotten it very wrong for too long IMHO. I think there is a place for religion, for faith, for spirituality, but the religion should serve the good of the people, not the people slavishly serving the religion.

All religions are invented bollocks.
They may have been useful once upon a time for explaining diseases, earthquakes etc, for controlling the population and maintaining order (as well as subjugating women and persecuting minorities), but they should have gone the same way as the Flat-earthers, Earth is centre of the universe believers etc.

Since time began the various religions have been used as a means by which to inflict harm and hurt on others just because they have different beliefs and views. Even now so called believers of a particualr faith or in their preferred god go to war against others, All in the name of some so-called god

Religions were and are still used to hold power and dominion over people often through 'fear' the old fear of 'heaven and hell'- The very fact that even in this (so called) modern age the roman catholic church still advocates that Birth Control Methods are against the will of god which means that many third world people who follow the christian faith will not use condoms and other methods of birth control - and so the spread of sexually transmitted diseases continues un-abated and children still being born into poverty; many of whom face death through a combination of hunger & disease before they are 10 years of age - whilst the pope and all those connected with the vatican live in the lap of luxury.
The church of england is the largest owner of property in the UK, yet are always claiming poverty and asking for charitable donations to mend the roofs and windows of the local church etc
Same goes for the muslims - families in poverty having to go to food banks whilst the imams dress well, eat well and drive very expensive cars. (those I have met and know of anyway) - I have no problem with someone who has a faith they follow or if they want to have a religious centre within their lives - as long as they do not ask or try to force their religion and its ways and views on others.

Yeah religions are a load of Bollocks.

The most genuinely good and kind hearted people I have met have been non-religious people, both in their generosity, in the way they lead their lives and in how they treat others - Spiritual people yes - But religious - No.

No, can't agree with either of you fully. Of course there have been and still are evil and corrupt sides to all religions and always will be once fallible human beings are involved - that can be said about almost any belief system. But there are also millions of decent people around the world that use various religions for spirituality and moral guidance and that is the way it should be - religion should serve mankind, not mankind slavishly serving religion.

It depends whether you think it's OK to believe in a lie, although I'd argue that even if you're happy to believe in magic men in the sky, religion is evil.

I particularly hate the way that religions brainwash the young and use stories of hell and torment to make them obey. Why are the Catholics in Ireland, the Muslims in Arabia and the Hindus in India. It's nothing to do with free will or 'spirituality'. It's because that's what their parents, schools and churches told them they had to believe.

The religion and morality point doesn't stand up to scrutiny. People can be and are moral without religion. Moreover, religions are not moral. Most are quite OK with slavery. For every 'bring the children unto me' there is a 'spare the rod and spoil the child'. Islam advocates death for apostates. Hindu wives are burnt along with their dead husbands. Catholic babies are 'born in sin'.

All religions discriminate against women, homosexuals etc and they interfere in the minutiae of your life. Chop of that foreskin, cover your head, separate girls and boys, ... the list is endless.

They all claim they are the chosen ones and all non-believers are condemned to hell. The biggest religious sects are catholicism and sunni islam. They both think that over six billion of the world's population should/will burn for eternity. Nice.

Also, what is spirituality? When people try to define it it just sounds like hippy religion (search for meaning, connection with something bigger than ourselves ..)

I think the one thing that church membership can offer is the opportunity to make friends, a sense of belonging and a support structure, but I think the coercion, self-delusion, discrimination and bad practices are too big a price to pay.

What's your point? Ban religion?

What you have described there is humanity. Human beings are behind every evil committed on this planet. Human beings corrupt religious and political systems. Political systems, as developed by human beings, are responsible for genocides throughout history, just as religions developed by human beings are. I find it ironic that many people that are so anti-religion seem to be very politically vocal - and yet governments and political systems are as responsible for war, genocide, slavery, theft and corruption etc as any religion. Do you believe it is morally right that your country has a monarch? Monarchy is a system that is responsible for billions of deaths, for slavery, misery and murder on a global scale throughout history - and all based on an accident of birth for the monarch and a zealous, religious-like belief by the general public!

I'll quote OneBard's sentence above and replace one word with two and it will ring true;

"Since time began the various political systems have been used as a means by which to inflict harm and hurt on others just because they have different beliefs and views."

You say; religions "interfere in the minutiae of your life". Well that's a statement that could be easily aimed at any government on planet Earth!

What it comes down to again is the human element. Does the human live by the "eye for an eye" decree or the "turn the other cheek" decree? Do they follow a spiritual and peaceful religious path or an intolerant murderous fundamentalist path? Does a Muslim live in peace or strap a bomb to themselves and murder innocent people? The individual person makes that choice. To judge all religious people because of the actions of some is very intolerant and narrow minded I think. Millions of people find comfort and support from their religion, faith, and belief system in times of tragedy and are inspired by religion to great feats of humanitarianism, sacrifice and philanthropy, and to me that is a good thing.

You are also incorrect in thinking Catholics and Sunni Muslims believe all none believers will (or should) burn in hell; This misconception is based on poor translation of the Qur’an and Old Testament. You have to also allow that many sects/theologians within those religions interpret their laws and statements differently. Historically Islam has been quite tolerant of other religions and parts of the Qur’an can be interpreted to read that anyone that believes in a single God can go to Heaven. Similarly most modern Catholic theologians and priests are very tolerant of other religions and many modern Christians view God as a universal entity rather than a Catholic or Protestant or Muslim entity. Of course not all believers believe that, but it demonstrates the point that you can't paint all with the same brush. Also, the Christian and Muslim concept of hell is different. Christians view hell as eternal punishment, whilst (most) Muslims view hell as a temporary "reformatory" stage from which they will eventually exit.

No offence intended here as I have no idea if you are an atheist or otherwise, but I find most (not all) atheists I've encountered to be quite arrogant and pompous and as intolerant as any religious fundamentalist - until they end up in the shit. As the old aphorism goes; There are no atheists in foxholes.

[Bradywasking]

RIP the priest murdered in France this morning, regardless of religious views this was another attack on a way of life and the freedom to live it however one choses..

[GranadaJoe]

To make my position clear; I am an atheist. I was brought up in a religious-ish family (prayers before bed, Aunt who ran a Sunday school) but it didn't really have any effect on our lives. My secondary school was populated by a lot of happy-clappy born-again Christians and for a couple of years I tried really, really hard to believe, but ultimately I had to accept I couldn't, and I felt uncomfortable for many years. Eventually, as an adult after thinking logically about religion and investigating the facts I became convinced that, not only was there 'probably' not a God, but that the evidence for one was weak and the evidence against strong. It was an amazing feeling of relief and happiness and I would recommend it to everybody.

I would love to see a world without religion but I would never advocate banning it. I would however like to see some of its practices outlawed.

I completely agree with DB10 about the appalling record of the majority of political systems over the years, but their bad deeds to not excuse religions of theirs. Two wrongs do not make a right.
I also hate the monarchy, to answer DB's question. In a democracy it's ridiculous. I hate it that my legal status is not 'citizen' but 'subject of her majesty'.

I firmly believe that man invented God, not the other way round, which accounts for why no two people seem to have the same belief, and why individual believers take whatever they want from the Bible, Koran etc and ignore the bits they don't like.
DB10, what do you think this says about religion? If people can ignore the fundamental tenets of a religion and take a pick-n-mix approach then what is a religion?

Please don't try to imply that I am attacking religious people. I am most definitely not. People can believe anything they want to. I will always challenge their beliefs if I think they are wrong, dangerous or offensive, but I will never attack believers in general. I will, however attack religions and Churches.

It's true that some people take comfort in their faith, but is it good that this comfort is based on a lie? There's no right answer but to quote Matt Dillahunty, "I want to believe in as many true things and as few false things as possible".
Another famous quote is, "Good people do good things and bad people do bad things, but if you want good people to do bad things you need religion".
The nurse who caught ebola and was treated in the US, in her press conference thanked God for saving her. She took comfort in her religion, but I find that gross. What about the talented, dedicated, brave doctors and nurses? And if she's a believer, who does she think invented and distributed ebola in the first place.

On the subject of hell, I don't think my comments are 'based on a poor translation of the Koran and Old Testament'. Hell is not mentioned in the OT. Some later clergy have used references to 'the grave' to imply it and later bibles (e.g. the King James version) use it more. It is alluded to more in the the New Testament but it is never clear what it is. The issue is that religions (I believe as a means of controlling the population) have developed Hell when the source texts don't support it.
As for the Koran; which bit of this has been misinterpreted: Lo! Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment. 4:56
They will wish to come forth from the Fire, but they will not come forth from it. Theirs will be a lasting doom. 5:37
For them is drink of boiling water and a painful doom, because they disbelieved. 6:70
I have English and Irish friends who are catholic are who were taught in school and in Church that Protestants can never go to heaven.

I fully accept that the majority of believers probably don't want 85% of humanity to burn in hell, but that is because they are decent people who choose to overlook the contents of their holy texts and the teachings of many of their clergy, rather than because they are religious.

It is estimated that there at least 4,000 religions, but some estimates put it at five times that or more. There are over 10,000 denominations of Christianity.
They all believe they know the truth and that every other religion is false. I just go one step further and believe they are all false.

Some atheists are arrogant, but the world needs more of them. Go out today and create an atheist.

[nut flush gooner]

ISIS ideologies are nothing to do with religion. Any Muslim will tell you the Koran in no way promotes the murder of fellow human beings (even Muslims).

Why France? Well two reasons in my opinion, they haven't looked at the problem at it's source ie where radicalisation takes place. They decided after Charlie Hebdo/Paris attacks the best way to deal with ISIS was to bomb the fuck out of them. To a degree this has worked, but at the same time it's only caused more people in France to become radicalised.

The French have been well and truly caught with their pants down over the last few years, they didn't take the problem seriously (when London and New York where attacked) and now it has got out of hand there is nothing they can do to stop more people from being killed.

I am not saying we are good at dealing with the radicalisation and potential threats in the UK, something will happen, but in this country we have covered all bases. Look at our policy for reaching out to moderate Muslims, our surveillance which has prevented umpteen attacks and dare I say it the UK despite what I said on the Brexit thread has a much more inclusive society. In France how you get on in life is strongly linked to your cultural background, they genuinely alienate immigrants especially the North Africans.

RIP Priest, I cannot remember a time in my lifetime, when I have despaired so much at how barbaric our fellow human beings have become.

[armchair]

Just thought I'd bump this. Some lovely tributes and much love for Jimmy on here.

[DB10GOONER]

Just thought I'd bump this. Some lovely tributes and much love for Jimmy on here.

And what exactly was the point of that?

[DB10GOONER]

To make my position clear; I am an atheist. I was brought up in a religious-ish family (prayers before bed, Aunt who ran a Sunday school) but it didn't really have any effect on our lives. My secondary school was populated by a lot of happy-clappy born-again Christians and for a couple of years I tried really, really hard to believe, but ultimately I had to accept I couldn't, and I felt uncomfortable for many years. Eventually, as an adult after thinking logically about religion and investigating the facts I became convinced that, not only was there 'probably' not a God, but that the evidence for one was weak and the evidence against strong. It was an amazing feeling of relief and happiness and I would recommend it to everybody.

I would love to see a world without religion but I would never advocate banning it. I would however like to see some of its practices outlawed.

I completely agree with DB10 about the appalling record of the majority of political systems over the years, but their bad deeds to not excuse religions of theirs. Two wrongs do not make a right.
I also hate the monarchy, to answer DB's question. In a democracy it's ridiculous. I hate it that my legal status is not 'citizen' but 'subject of her majesty'.

I firmly believe that man invented God, not the other way round, which accounts for why no two people seem to have the same belief, and why individual believers take whatever they want from the Bible, Koran etc and ignore the bits they don't like.
DB10, what do you think this says about religion? If people can ignore the fundamental tenets of a religion and take a pick-n-mix approach then what is a religion?

Please don't try to imply that I am attacking religious people. I am most definitely not. People can believe anything they want to. I will always challenge their beliefs if I think they are wrong, dangerous or offensive, but I will never attack believers in general. I will, however attack religions and Churches.

It's true that some people take comfort in their faith, but is it good that this comfort is based on a lie? There's no right answer but to quote Matt Dillahunty, "I want to believe in as many true things and as few false things as possible".
Another famous quote is, "Good people do good things and bad people do bad things, but if you want good people to do bad things you need religion".
The nurse who caught ebola and was treated in the US, in her press conference thanked God for saving her. She took comfort in her religion, but I find that gross. What about the talented, dedicated, brave doctors and nurses? And if she's a believer, who does she think invented and distributed ebola in the first place.

On the subject of hell, I don't think my comments are 'based on a poor translation of the Koran and Old Testament'. Hell is not mentioned in the OT. Some later clergy have used references to 'the grave' to imply it and later bibles (e.g. the King James version) use it more. It is alluded to more in the the New Testament but it is never clear what it is. The issue is that religions (I believe as a means of controlling the population) have developed Hell when the source texts don't support it.
As for the Koran; which bit of this has been misinterpreted: Lo! Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment. 4:56
They will wish to come forth from the Fire, but they will not come forth from it. Theirs will be a lasting doom. 5:37
For them is drink of boiling water and a painful doom, because they disbelieved. 6:70
I have English and Irish friends who are catholic are who were taught in school and in Church that Protestants can never go to heaven.

I fully accept that the majority of believers probably don't want 85% of humanity to burn in hell, but that is because they are decent people who choose to overlook the contents of their holy texts and the teachings of many of their clergy, rather than because they are religious.

It is estimated that there at least 4,000 religions, but some estimates put it at five times that or more. There are over 10,000 denominations of Christianity.
They all believe they know the truth and that every other religion is false. I just go one step further and believe they are all false.

Some atheists are arrogant, but the world needs more of them. Go out today and create an atheist.

And for every quote saying hell is eternal for Muslims I can produce one that says it isn't;

http://quransmessage.com/articles/is%20 ... %20FM3.htm

It is one of the longest debated tenets of Islam. The translation problems stem from mistranslated verbs and adverbs and are common throughout the Qur’an.

Regarding the OT, the translation most used for hell is "Sheol" which many scholars claim simply refers to the resting place of the dead in general, or the grave, but most OT scholars also state that Sheol was divided into two areas, one for the righteous dead and one for the wicked dead. There are many OT passages that speak of Sheol in terms that denote judgment, such as Isaiah 14:15, “Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.” You have to also remember that the Jews of that era believed that being slain and sent to the place of the dead is often a form of judgment in itself and that is their concept of what we call "hell" within the OT. This led to the more widely quoted new testament concept of hell.

As for Matt Delahunty, if there ever was a more pompous arrogant attention-seeking cock than him I've never heard of them! His ludicrous assertion that if people drop religion and only live in relation to what they can prove they will just suddenly become enlightened and only do good to other people is absolutely moronic and as intolerant and fundamentalist a style of thinking as any of the religions he disparages. It demonstrates a deeply ignorant lack of knowledge about human nature.

He reminds me of the atheists that rant on about the "Atheist Atrocities Fallacy" – claiming that religious people often incorrectly quote Hitler, Stalin & Pol Pot as examples of atheists that committed genocide, when in fact they were Christian, Christian and Buddhist/Christian respectively. What these atheists always fail to mention though is that those 3 animals committed their genocidal atrocities AFTER they had abandoned the structural practice of those religions. Hitler is often quoted as saying he was doing Christian work by exterminating the Jews but if you've read anything about Hitler's life it is obvious he was using that as an (ineffective) ruse to subdue the outcry by German Christians.

Now I'm not saying they committed those genocides because they were atheists, but I am saying that to blame all the evils of the world on religion is ludicrously shallow thinking and is typical of fundamentalist intolerant atheists. I always find it hilarious that so many atheists claim to know that there is no God, whilst criticising believers for claiming there definitely is a God, the atheists seemingly unable to grasp the irony of that.

When atheists say "prove there is a God" I'd say the onus is on them to prove there isn't. After all, their belief is supposedly based on "facts", whereas the religious belief is based on "faith". I also don't see why you have an issue with people taking a "pick n mix" approach to religion. As I said, my view is that religion should serve man's needs, not the other way round. Why does it have to be a hard fast rule of either one way or the other? That concept again is symbolic of intolerant atheist thinking. For example there are very few Catholics that actually believe that communion is really the body and blood of Christ even though it clearly says so in the Bible!

I go back to my original statement that the problem is not religion or political systems but rather it is humanity, how humans choose to interpret those systems, and how they choose to behave.

[armchair]

Just thought I'd bump this. Some lovely tributes and much love for Jimmy on here.

And what exactly was the point of that?

What was the point of what? Am I obliged to answer your questions?