THE WENGER THREAD

[GoonerMuzz]

Arsene is a football manager, not a business manager, not a finance or corporate manager, but a football manager.

His job, his one and only job should be preparing the team to win trophies, by his coaching, his tactics and his knowledge of the world of football.

In terms of strengthening his squad he should be telling the scouts exactly what he needs and if any specific players out there interest him he tells the scouts who, they then go out and find suitable players and scout those specifically targeted and report back, he decides whom he wants of those scouted and the financial people broker the deal, his only involvement in the actual transfer should be discussion and agreement with the player about footballing matters.

I think he has more than enough to do as a football manager and therefore should keep his nose out of everything else and then he might actually find the time to be the manager he was 12 years ago.

Matt as a manager you should know exactly what it means to be part of a big company, each part of the business has specific people to manage it who are usually highly specialised and experienced in their specific fields, not one man who dictates and interferes in everything.

The board then become the arbitrators of the overall running of the businessand the different departments below them.

[Gunner Rob]

Mattdede - if you haven't been put off by the latest abuse aimed at you then welcome to the forum.

At the end of the day we are all Arsenal supporters, it's just for a newcomer some of the views on here can appear a bit extreme to begin with.

Anyway it will be interesting to hear your thoughts on the season. You might be in the minority on here but to be fair you probably do represent the majority view at the Emirates. It will be interesting to see whether your position changes as the season unfolds.

[northbank123]

Cowardice. He's afraid to go all out.
If he did and it didn't work out for him his ego wouldn't take it too well.
He's incompetent and a big fat coward.

You're right - the other side of his desperation to prove his methods and justify this vanity project, is that he is scared to take away the crutch of not spending what our rivals do because if he does he'll have no excuse if we don't win.

[Sean]

Welcome, Matt.

As you can see, we don't appreciate Wenger's obsessive and self-imposed frugality being helpful for the 'business'. We'd like him to sign good players and leave the money issues to the board. We'd also like him to employ tactics and train the players in something other than passing (Defending and shooting would be nice). Our sideways style of play is dull and ineffective and has been so for years.

We would all like to see him go back to his glory days of his first decade in charge, but it seems he wants to do it in his deeply flawed ways; upholding his snobby principles seems to take precedence over ruthlessly trying to win everything. He also had much better players back then who seemed to run things on the pitch themselves.

Since the sacking of David Dein, Wenger has too much power in the club and seems to discourage any combative spirit in the squad. I don't believe we can win another title under him again, seeing as we bottled good chances in 2008, 2010, 2011, 2014 and 2016 (and were uncompetitive in the other seasons). Aside from winning two FA Cups against crap sides, I see no reason why he shouldn't been sacked in 2011. There have been numerous humiliations since. Every further season under Wenger is a wasted season.

I love how he is making out as though he is under some sort of pressure to succeed. Like every other season, he will start off with his usual, "we want to win it" comments, and as soon as the actual challengers head off into the sunset, he will revert to proclaiming the VT as an achievement, and the media will lap it up.

The same thing happens every season

What amazes me is that I still manage to be amazed by just how inept he is in the transfer market. I knew we would be left short and hardly had high expectations, but it is still dumbfounding that he can brazenly ignore our shortcomings and the monumental improvements made by Chelsea, City and United (not to mention the vast amounts being chucked around by just about every PL club all of whose already-massive revenue streams have jumped again, and yet still enjoy the unwavering cult loyalty of so many fans.

He isn't even trying to win the league any more - for the second summer in a row it's not about money but There are apparently no players out there who could improve our squad - how does he get away with spouting shit like that?

We were lied to about leaving Highbury and were being lied to every fucking time this charlatan opens his fucking gob.

I am not surprised at all, mate

Its like I've bought a time machine and gone back to 1992-95 when Graham fucked about signing all the lower league and sub standard foreign shit he could get his hands on as we slipped further and further from being competitive in the league. People forget how fucking awful that period was but I don't and our modern day transfer dealings are every bit as baffling.....as is the manager's stubbornness

At least it didn't drag on for eight years (and counting)

It was George Graham that turned Arsenal around. The record during his time speaks for itself.

Amen

Moving to that monstrosity is the most tragic decision in Arsenal's history and for long term Arsenal fans it has compounded the other unwelcome changes made to the game in the last 20 odd years.

And the cruellest irony of all? The obscene TV deals mean that there was absolutely no point in moving; none whatsoever.

Hindsight is wonderful and all that, but still.

But we wouldn't have £200-300M in the bank!

If you can't understand the difference between a normal business whose primary motivation is profit and a football club whose primary motivation is (or should be) winning trophies and on-field success, there's not much hope for you.

Besides, the idea that Wenger runs the financial side of things is a myth. How many PLCs with an estimated value of over 2bn dollars would employ a CFO whose only qualification is an undergraduate Economics degree which is about 4 decades out of date? Don't equate his refusal to spend with great financial management of the club.

In fact, his self-perceived economic knowledge has been arguably the single-most damaging thing to the club's chances of success. He has predicated his entire approach to management on his failed crackpot economic theories (like declaring nearly a year ago that football can't exist in a bubble and spending would reduce within two years).

No other top flight club requires a manager to financially run the club so why do people have this idea that we do? Not being able to read a balance sheet didn't hinder the likes of Clough and Ferguson too much.

Spot on. The man speaks bollocks and the press lap it up based on his 'persona', when the bloke is an utter fraud and charlatan.

Anyone can see that football is recession-proof. Especially now, with the new TV deals. It doesn't take an outdated tin-pot degree to work that one out.

The austerity was a lie - and utterly pointless

Cowardice. He's afraid to go all out.
If he did and it didn't work out for him his ego wouldn't take it too well.
He's incompetent and a big fat coward.

Agreed

He could have Messi and Ronaldo in the side and we'd still ship goals that a Sunday side could defend.

He won't do tactics, defence or shooting. Failing to prepare means we prepare to fail (for eight years).

[Nos89]

What are you disagreeing with?

That Arsenal are consistent? That Arsenal have finished in the top 4 for last 20 years?

Or

That Arsenal are more consistent than Man Utd, Liverpool and Chelski?

I too would have loved to see us get Chelski haul of trophies. If Ambromovic hadn't come over here with money and ambition, we would've had a different set of results but we can't change history, we're not quite North Korea.

I'm disagreeing with your statement that "Arsenal are a better, more consistent performing club domestically and in Europe". You are basically saying finishing (for example) fourth 12 times is better than winning the PL 4 or 5 times over the same period because that somehow shows a level of "consistency"? WTF? That shows a consistent level of not being good enough to win it, that's all that shows.

True, that we are consistently not good enough to win, which is the most important part of football.
But we have been more consistent then the other 3 in maintaining our league position and our CL qualification status. Doesn't count for much if we're not winning it. But at least we're getting the chance too.

That is without doubt one of the most ridiculous statements I've read on this forum.

Why is that ridiculous?

[Wilson]

Wenger is simply one thing - a scared manager afraid of spending, because if he did, he would be expected to win. However, whilst he doesn't spend, he can play the role of 'getting Arsenal in the top 4 on a budget'.

But again, the 'budget' is self-imposed, so why is it used as an excuse? Why do fans, media and pundits allow a self-imposed hindrance to be an excuse? The reason Wenger doesn't spend, is because by not spending - he can play the role of an idealist going up against the big spending rivals. However, NEWSFLASH FUK WITS, Arsenal FC are one of the biggest clubs in the UK, and indeed the world - so why do we play along with Arsene by viewing ourselves as West Ham or Everton esq?

Why do some Arsenal fans shit on their own club, just to justify Wenger's position and the job he is doing?

They say 'we have no right to win the league'. Yeah, well I say fuk off, we do have a right to win the league. How much longer do we pretend we are mid range club who should be thankful for to Arsene for finishing 4th, and participating in the CL?

How about, we start acting like Man United and Man City fans - and demanding and expecting the best.

[Ed Hunter The Gooner]

Cannot understand the snobbery (or whatever you want to call it) of not wanting to be seen to be buying the league - the market has changed and all clubs spend massive money trying to achieve success, so we either accept it or we get left behind cos it is no longer just a chavski or just a Blackburn spending huge money. Anyway, according to those of a higher financial understanding than I, we have over £200m sitting idle in our accounts so if we spent all that this season, it would be money generated by the club and not from a sugar daddy so the buying the league argument isn't applicable imo

The way I see this is that it's not about "buying" the League but about investing. I'm a business manager myself and in every successfull business you have to invest in it to gain more success. I don't think any of us wants the club to just spend because of sake of it. But what we want is the club to make real investments to secure maximum results.

The way Arsenal are working right now can't go on forever. Our brand because of past success is good at the moment but it will suffer and weaken over the time if we continue like this. The "customers" aka the fans will see that the "Product" isn't the same that we've been sold over the years.

Anyway, the business side is one thing and football side another. It's the board and CEO who should be responsible of our business side and wenkers only responsibility should be the football side. We as the fans aren't and we shouldn't be interested about the business. We are football fans and results on the pitch are what we are interested about. We don't need to understand or care about their business. We don't need to give any fucks about the profits they make as we won't see any of that money in our own bank accounts. Fuck their business. We as fans want to see success on the pitch and that's it.

[augie]

Cannot understand the snobbery (or whatever you want to call it) of not wanting to be seen to be buying the league - the market has changed and all clubs spend massive money trying to achieve success, so we either accept it or we get left behind cos it is no longer just a chavski or just a Blackburn spending huge money. Anyway, according to those of a higher financial understanding than I, we have over £200m sitting idle in our accounts so if we spent all that this season, it would be money generated by the club and not from a sugar daddy so the buying the league argument isn't applicable imo

The way I see this is that it's not about "buying" the League but about investing. I'm a business manager myself and in every successfull business you have to invest in it to gain more success. I don't think any of us wants the club to just spend because of sake of it. But what we want is the club to make real investments to secure maximum results.

The way Arsenal are working right now can't go on forever. Our brand because of past success is good at the moment but it will suffer and weaken over the time if we continue like this. The "customers" aka the fans will see that the "Product" isn't the same that we've been sold over the years.

Anyway, the business side is one thing and football side another. It's the board and CEO who should be responsible of our business side and wenkers only responsibility should be the football side. We as the fans aren't and we shouldn't be interested about the business. We are football fans and results on the pitch are what we are interested about. We don't need to understand or care about their business. We don't need to give any fucks about the profits they make as we won't see any of that money in our own bank accounts. Fuck their business. We as fans want to see success on the pitch and that's it.

Ah but have you got 10 season tickets ? Any business manager worth his salt these days, has 10 seasons and is fluent in dogshite when talking of the economic marvel that is arsole wenker

[doublewinners1971]

Nice one guys, I'm sure as the season goes on I will end up abusing Wenger just as much as everyone else. For now, I'll keep it quiet and see how we get on against Liverpool...

At present then, we have bought one Jap for marketing purposes, a midfielder which cost as much as Kante and no one else.

We have Pers and Gabriel out injured. Still no striker that can get us 25 goals a season and Theo is still at the club.

Bring on Liverpool, eh!

[Redarmy]

Nice one guys, I'm sure as the season goes on I will end up abusing Wenger just as much as everyone else. For now, I'll keep it quiet and see how we get on against Liverpool...

At present then, we have bought one Jap for marketing purposes, a midfielder which cost as much as Kante and no one else.

We have Pers and Gabriel out injured. Still no striker that can get us 25 goals a season and Theo is still at the club.

Bring on Liverpool, eh!

don't think anyone will lose sleep over your opinions

Its a forum should be able to put out what you like

[armchair]

You'll only hear shit like this from Arsenal "fans".....

Resale value
Net spend
Financial stability

[Ed Hunter The Gooner]

Cannot understand the snobbery (or whatever you want to call it) of not wanting to be seen to be buying the league - the market has changed and all clubs spend massive money trying to achieve success, so we either accept it or we get left behind cos it is no longer just a chavski or just a Blackburn spending huge money. Anyway, according to those of a higher financial understanding than I, we have over £200m sitting idle in our accounts so if we spent all that this season, it would be money generated by the club and not from a sugar daddy so the buying the league argument isn't applicable imo

The way I see this is that it's not about "buying" the League but about investing. I'm a business manager myself and in every successfull business you have to invest in it to gain more success. I don't think any of us wants the club to just spend because of sake of it. But what we want is the club to make real investments to secure maximum results.

The way Arsenal are working right now can't go on forever. Our brand because of past success is good at the moment but it will suffer and weaken over the time if we continue like this. The "customers" aka the fans will see that the "Product" isn't the same that we've been sold over the years.

Anyway, the business side is one thing and football side another. It's the board and CEO who should be responsible of our business side and wenkers only responsibility should be the football side. We as the fans aren't and we shouldn't be interested about the business. We are football fans and results on the pitch are what we are interested about. We don't need to understand or care about their business. We don't need to give any fucks about the profits they make as we won't see any of that money in our own bank accounts. Fuck their business. We as fans want to see success on the pitch and that's it.

Ah but have you got 10 season tickets ? Any business manager worth his salt these days, has 10 seasons and is fluent in dogshite when talking of the economic marvel that is arsole wenker

I'm fluent in dogshite but that's pretty much all...

[GranadaJoe]

Wenger is simply one thing - a scared manager afraid of spending, because if he did, he would be expected to win. However, whilst he doesn't spend, he can play the role of 'getting Arsenal in the top 4 on a budget'.

But again, the 'budget' is self-imposed, so why is it used as an excuse? Why do fans, media and pundits allow a self-imposed hindrance to be an excuse? The reason Wenger doesn't spend, is because by not spending - he can play the role of an idealist going up against the big spending rivals. However, NEWSFLASH FUK WITS, Arsenal FC are one of the biggest clubs in the UK, and indeed the world - so why do we play along with Arsene by viewing ourselves as West Ham or Everton esq?

Why do some Arsenal fans shit on their own club, just to justify Wenger's position and the job he is doing?

They say 'we have no right to win the league'. Yeah, well I say fuk off, we do have a right to win the league. How much longer do we pretend we are mid range club who should be thankful for to Arsene for finishing 4th, and participating in the CL?

How about, we start acting like Man United and Man City fans - and demanding and expecting the best.

Good post, but the longer AW stays at the club with his current philosophy the more it will become a self-fulfilling prophesy. Act like a mid-table club, talk like a mid-table club, spend like a mid-table club and soon that's all we will be.

In fact it's already happened. After the Invincibles season, if AW had stated that 'we're not going to get close the winning the League for at least another 12 years, but we will always finish fourth or above', would any fan have thought 'That's fair enough'? Yet now fans are singing his praises for doing so well with penniless little Arsenal
The language that many AKBs are using is exactly the same as the Orcs fans use when they finish 'a creditable ninth' or when Sunderland manage to avoid relegation. AW is destroying the confidence, belief and optimism of lifelong fans.
Tell someone they're mediocre long enough and they'll start to believe it.

[Jumpers For Goalposts]

Nice one guys, I'm sure as the season goes on I will end up abusing Wenger just as much as everyone else. For now, I'll keep it quiet and see how we get on against Liverpool...

At present then, we have bought one Jap for marketing purposes, a midfielder which cost as much as Kante and no one else.

We have Pers and Gabriel out injured. Still no striker that can get us 25 goals a season and Theo is still at the club.

Bring on Liverpool, eh!

Matt - I'm not going to be abusive to you because of your choice to defend Wenger but can you confirm one thing?

You say you're waiting to see how we get on against Liverpool but that's only one match. Are you basing your support for Wenger on what happens in the next match? Don't the last 10 years give you some cause for concern?

You know - results like the 8-2 at Old Trafford or 6-0 at Chelsea or 5-1 at Anfield or 4-0 at Southampton or several bottled title run ins or several cup defeats to the likes of Bradford Birmingham or Sheffield Wednesday or our yearly annihilation in the Champions League??

[augie]

Nice one guys, I'm sure as the season goes on I will end up abusing Wenger just as much as everyone else. For now, I'll keep it quiet and see how we get on against Liverpool...

At present then, we have bought one Jap for marketing purposes, a midfielder which cost as much as Kante and no one else.

We have Pers and Gabriel out injured. Still no striker that can get us 25 goals a season and Theo is still at the club.

Bring on Liverpool, eh!

Matt - I'm not going to be abusive to you because of your choice to defend Wenger but can you confirm one thing?

You say you're waiting to see how we get on against Liverpool but that's only one match. Are you basing your support for Wenger on what happens in the next match? Don't the last 10 years give you some cause for concern?

You know - results like the 8-2 at Old Trafford or 6-0 at Chelsea or 5-1 at Anfield or 4-0 at Southampton or several bottled title run ins or several cup defeats to the likes of Bradford Birmingham or Sheffield Wednesday or our yearly annihilation in the Champions League??

It's a medical condition called "The Jam Tomorrow Syndrome" - it is always the next game or the next transfer window or the next season, and it is an affliction that affects thousands of Gooners everywhere