The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

[nut flush gooner]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ning-in-eu

Oh dear we all knew Farage was a crook, it would seem bungling Boris was promoting something (Brexit) he didn't believe in. You couldn't make this up.

He will surely never be PM now.

[nut flush gooner]

An interesting development in the whole 'how will UK be able to negotiate trade deals now it won't be able to benefit from the EU expertise' debate.

The CETA deal between the EU and Canada appears to have fallen apart.

Every EU member has to approve the deal. However, each member state has its own rules for how it decides. The Belgian govt has to get the approval of 5 regional govts, but one rejected the deal, so the deal cannot procede.

No doubt the Eurocrats will be working furiously to see how it can circumvent democracy, but I think this gives the lie to the idea that UK will be so much worse than EU at concluding trade deals.

After all, in its entire history EU has not concluded a trade deal with any major power.

So you agree that it will be very difficult for the UK to do any sort of deal with the EU, our biggest trading partner by a mile.

It's very difficult for any country to do a deal with the EU. It's the way the EU works.
However, we buy more from them than they buy from us. I hope common sense will prevail on both sides.

Additionally, we will be able to act more quickly and more decisively when negotiating with other countries.

What you mean like the United States ? They will put something together along the lines of TTIP we will tell them to fuck off, then several years later we will still be struggling to forge any deals. The same applies for India and China. The only country I can see a quick deal being concluded with is the Australia, with the exception of the Mining sector they are pretty insignificant on the world stage.

With regards to the Europeans, they all are under political pressure to make our exit as painful as possible. The fact we import more than we export irrelevant. If they are weak, that will put at risk the whole idea and principles of the EU with right wing political parties particularly in France and Italy waiting to pounce.

[nut flush gooner]

https://www.ft.com/content/e801b67a-920 ... 778b55a923

So what the Germans say aside, Theresa May has said that Nissan will not suffer financially from a "hard brexit". In a nutshell that means hundreds of millions of pounds of taxpayers money to cover the cost of export taxes/tariffs.

So Nissan has a deal, who next? Why should we underpin the jobs of people who by and large voted for brexit.

[Gunner Rob]

project reality

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 62086.html

I really can't see any way that Brexit will be allowed to happen.
I think that the Brexiters had their window of opportunity (June 24th) but with Nigel Farage being a coward and walking away, Michael Gove committing career suicide and Boris being Boris, that opportunity now looks lost.

No way will the country today stand for a hard brexit, and that is the only brexit on the table...

[flash gunner]

[GranadaJoe]

An interesting article in the Express by the bloke who was involved in creating the Euro. It may be that it wasn't only us ESN, racists who had concerns about the future of the EU / Euro.

In an explosive intervention professor Otmar Issing predicted that Brussels' dream of a European superstate will finally be buried amongst the rubble of the crumbling single currency he designed.
he savaged the whole idea of a United States of Europe, saying the attempt to push through federalisation by the back door had churned the ground the currency was built on into a quagmire of patchwork legislation, into which it is fast sinking.
The leading economist was especially scathing of the European Central Bank (ECB), of which he was the first chief, accusing it of being too quick to dish out cash to failing banks and countries.
And he was equally ferocious in his assessment of Jean-Claude Juncker's beleaguered EU Commission, which he accused of betraying the Euro on the altar of its superstate dream.
He blasted the Commission and the ECB for failing to enforce strict rules on bailouts designed to protect the euro, saying they had become too riven with political backslapping.

Jacques Delors, ex-French President appears to share his views.

My decision to vote out was 60/40, and the key element for me was my doubts about the future of the EU and there are plenty of people, much brighter than me, who share this view.
We may not be correct, but it is a reasoned viewpoint.

[Chippy]

some interesting comments from peter hitchins http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... eedom.html

However bad things are they would have been as bad or worse if we'd voted IN and are certainly nothing to do with voting OUT says OUTer. Hmm

Listening to that loon on any subject is like quoting Ty as evidence we will win the quadruple.

Isn't that exactly what you're doing from the other side of the argument?

Absolutely not. All the experts are saying that Brexit will be hugely damaging to the UK economy. There is nobody with any credibility who says leaving will be good for the economy. And before you start saying we don't listen to experts, please tell me you would be happy to be treated by an unqualified doctor or flown by an unqualified pilot.

[DB10GOONER]

Boris really is a moron, isn't he?

[flash gunner]

some interesting comments from peter hitchins http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... eedom.html

However bad things are they would have been as bad or worse if we'd voted IN and are certainly nothing to do with voting OUT says OUTer. Hmm

Listening to that loon on any subject is like quoting Ty as evidence we will win the quadruple.

Isn't that exactly what you're doing from the other side of the argument?

Absolutely not. All the experts are saying that Brexit will be hugely damaging to the UK economy. There is nobody with any credibility who says leaving will be good for the economy. And before you start saying we don't listen to experts, please tell me you would be happy to be treated by an unqualified doctor or flown by an unqualified pilot.

So my quote about Lord King saying its a good thing isn't important? I guess he's a silly old fucker whose opinion isn't worth shit because it goes against your ideas just as Peter Hitchens is wrong because .... ..... He voted out? So if any of your experts voted remain their opinion isn't worth a wank either??? There many people saying it's not as bad as the doom mongers are saying but you don't see them in the Guardian just as I was shot down for quoting the telegraph a couple of pages ago even though I'm in no way a Tory

There is no definitive answer as to whether it will be good or bad and quoting experts left right and centre won't change that...... It's so easy now to quote people saying how bad it will be, will you still be posting them 10 years after we leave?? I doubt it but NOBODY KNOWS

[Red Snapper]

Boris really is a moron, isn't he?

Yep, complete moron; qualified to attend a top university, got a good degree, got elected as an mp twice, got elected as a tory mayor in a very labour supporting city twice then got a top government post. Complete and utter moron obviously!

[olgitgooner]

Prior to voting in the referendum I became very interested in the arguments for Leave and Remain. I have never taken such an interest in politics before.
I believe that people should not vote without listening to both sides of the argument. As I did.
Here's a challenge to the Remain voters. If you are not prepared to spend an hour watching the following link, then I suggest your minds are too closed to arrive at a balanced opinion as to whether the EU is a good or bad institution for the modern world.


https://youtu.be/eYqzcqDtL3k

Haha, that's just made my day. So you based your decision on a video one hour long that explicitly has a bias towards the argument for leaving the EU!!!

I am not going to watch the video in its entirety, but there is a section about Switzerland being outside the EU and thriving. I will tell you why that is aside from having some of the best skiing/winter sports resorts in the world, they have a huge financial services industry. So what are we doing to our Financial Services industry? I will tell you we are creating a situation where the vultures in Paris, Frankfurt hell even Dublin are looking for a slice of the cake for which we have had the largest slice in Europe for decades.

The difference between Switzerland and the UK is they are a tax haven, many of the worlds richest people/businesses park their cash very quietly to avoid paying tax. Do you think the British government/people would be happy to operate in a similar way? People already have a hissy fit when the likes of Apple pay next to no tax in Ireland. More importantly we need to be a tax generative country to pay for our large public sector expenses.

If your decision was truly based on a 1 hour you tube video, then all I can say is you haven't even come close to considering all the facts.

I have said this before, I am a Tory and a massive Euro sceptic, I don't like our laws being dictated to from Brussels. However, I had to research this subject over a number of months and it was clear to me that despite the freedom we will have from EU legislation, the positives of staying in the EU far outweighed the negatives. I have given umpteen reasons to stay in the EU, and my concerns about the implications for this country both before and after the referendum.

So you were prepared to "research the subject over a period of months" but not prepared to watch one single hour of video???!!!!

I watched hours and hours of presentation from both sides of the argument. Much of it misrepresentation of fact. Much of it total drivel. Do not presume to say that I am uninformed. Or that my opinion is based on one single hour of presentation. Or that that I have not "considered all the facts". You are insulting my fucking intelligence.

[Allgunsblazin]

Prior to voting in the referendum I became very interested in the arguments for Leave and Remain. I have never taken such an interest in politics before.
I believe that people should not vote without listening to both sides of the argument. As I did.
Here's a challenge to the Remain voters. If you are not prepared to spend an hour watching the following link, then I suggest your minds are too closed to arrive at a balanced opinion as to whether the EU is a good or bad institution for the modern world.


https://youtu.be/eYqzcqDtL3k

Haha, that's just made my day. So you based your decision on a video one hour long that explicitly has a bias towards the argument for leaving the EU!!!

I am not going to watch the video in its entirety, but there is a section about Switzerland being outside the EU and thriving. I will tell you why that is aside from having some of the best skiing/winter sports resorts in the world, they have a huge financial services industry. So what are we doing to our Financial Services industry? I will tell you we are creating a situation where the vultures in Paris, Frankfurt hell even Dublin are looking for a slice of the cake for which we have had the largest slice in Europe for decades.

The difference between Switzerland and the UK is they are a tax haven, many of the worlds richest people/businesses park their cash very quietly to avoid paying tax. Do you think the British government/people would be happy to operate in a similar way? People already have a hissy fit when the likes of Apple pay next to no tax in Ireland. More importantly we need to be a tax generative country to pay for our large public sector expenses.

If your decision was truly based on a 1 hour you tube video, then all I can say is you haven't even come close to considering all the facts.

I have said this before, I am a Tory and a massive Euro sceptic, I don't like our laws being dictated to from Brussels. However, I had to research this subject over a number of months and it was clear to me that despite the freedom we will have from EU legislation, the positives of staying in the EU far outweighed the negatives. I have given umpteen reasons to stay in the EU, and my concerns about the implications for this country both before and after the referendum.

So you were prepared to "research the subject over a period of months" but not prepared to watch one single hour of video???!!!!

I watched hours and hours of presentation from both sides of the argument. Much of it misrepresentation of fact. Much of it total drivel. Do not presume to say that I am uninformed. Or that my opinion is based on one single hour of presentation. Or that that I have not "considered all the facts". You are insulting my fucking intelligence.

[northbank123]

project reality

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 62086.html

I really can't see any way that Brexit will be allowed to happen.
I think that the Brexiters had their window of opportunity (June 24th) but with Nigel Farage being a coward and walking away, Michael Gove committing career suicide and Boris being Boris, that opportunity now looks lost.

No way will the country today stand for a hard brexit, and that is the only brexit on the table...

This is just wishful thinking based on exactly the same lack of perception which led people to assume that the vote would obviously be to Remain.

If by "people won't stand for it" you actually mean "people who disagree with Brexit will continue to complain loudly" then you're right.

As soon as Article 50 is triggered - which will be in the next five months - we are irrevocably committed to leaving. You talk about career suicide but trying to overrule the referendum result is probably the most poisonous political career move. More people voted for Brexit than anything else in the history of this country, and believe it or not most of those people are actually sitting at home thinking "what have I done?"

[olgitgooner]

Yes Indeed AllGuns
I'll all day long with anyone who makes poor judgements about another person or jumps to hasty and stupid conclusions about same.
You can always disagree with another persons opinion without suggesting that they are thick and that you are clever.

[Chippy]

some interesting comments from peter hitchins http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... eedom.html

However bad things are they would have been as bad or worse if we'd voted IN and are certainly nothing to do with voting OUT says OUTer. Hmm

Listening to that loon on any subject is like quoting Ty as evidence we will win the quadruple.

Isn't that exactly what you're doing from the other side of the argument?

Absolutely not. All the experts are saying that Brexit will be hugely damaging to the UK economy. There is nobody with any credibility who says leaving will be good for the economy. And before you start saying we don't listen to experts, please tell me you would be happy to be treated by an unqualified doctor or flown by an unqualified pilot.

So my quote about Lord King saying its a good thing isn't important? I guess he's a silly old fucker whose opinion isn't worth shit because it goes against your ideas just as Peter Hitchens is wrong because .... ..... He voted out? So if any of your experts voted remain their opinion isn't worth a wank either??? There many people saying it's not as bad as the doom mongers are saying but you don't see them in the Guardian just as I was shot down for quoting the telegraph a couple of pages ago even though I'm in no way a Tory

There is no definitive answer as to whether it will be good or bad and quoting experts left right and centre won't change that...... It's so easy now to quote people saying how bad it will be, will you still be posting them 10 years after we leave?? I doubt it but NOBODY KNOWS

I'll give you Lord King even though he was regarded as one of the most lacklustre governors of the BoE ever. Anyone else?