Man City Away Banner Confiscation

[DB10GOONER]

Any further news on this proposed meeting?

[Herd]

Its on Hold as DT is too busy reading the many scripts that Hollywood Directors are sending him to be bothered with such smallchange items !
An action film with him and the Duane the Rock is planned called Clash City Blues has been loosely based on the MCFC banner incident .
A must for football fans !

[OneBardGooner]

Its on Hold as DT is too busy reading the many scripts that Hollywood Directors are sending him to be bothered with such smallchange items !
An action film with him and the Duane the Rock is planned called Clash City Blues has been loosely based on the MCFC banner incident .
A must for football fans !

Yes, I heard it's being directed by TY.

[Herd]

Yes, I heard it's being directed by TY.

No that ones called "The Good the bad and the mentally deranged and features" Ty and Claude as two desperados who go looking for woman in Rotherham but find only trouble and hatred !

[gooner.ed]

All - Getting a call from the club tomorrow about the proposed meeting. Those that have already been in touch with me via email, I will contact to let them know what is happening. I have exchanged emails with the CEO up to this point. It looks like we may be fobbed off with Mark Brindle, the supporters liaison officer and Mark Gonella, director of communications for the meeting, but it is still important.

When IG told me after the AGM 'Let's have a meeting', I rather naively imagined he meant 'us' as in him and the affected fans. Anyway, he said we could have the stewards concerned there, so the main aim at this point is get agreement on what really happened at the Etihad, to find out what made the CEO inform the AGM that no Arsenal staff were involved in the confiscation of banners at City (if he was misinformed, I want him to be aware he is not getting the truth from his staff), agreement that there will be no repeat at away games, and agreement on what is permitted at home games (where Arsenal do have genuine authority).

If you had a banner confiscated at Manchester City, or witnessed first hand the procedure whereby others had their banners taken, and have not already been in touch, then email me - [email protected]

[GoonerMuzz]

Ed not wanting to foster any issues with the club as it would be counter productive however could you, if you don't already intend to, clarify exactly what constitutes an offensive banner as i'm fairly sure that for those who wish to see Arsene gone banners supporting him are just as offensive as the banners requesting he leave are to those who wish him to stay.

I would think that in the interests of improving relations with all group of fans either a blanket ban or no ban would be required, if the second option then i can't see the problem as long as the banners have no directly insulting or abusive statements but clarity of what is allowed would be required.

Also i'd seek clarification on the terms of agreement for the season ticket holders exactly where within the clauses it mentions only banners supportive of the club and/or owners are allowed and wherein exactly their authority lies to remove banners at other clubs grounds.

I believe If they did not receive written permission to do so from the other club and also that neither club provided prior warning that they would do so then the removal of a persons property constitutes at least one if not two illegal acts.

Cheers Muzz

[DB10GOONER]

Ed not wanting to foster any issues with the club as it would be counter productive however could you, if you don't already intend to, clarify exactly what constitutes an offensive banner as i'm fairly sure that for those who wish to see Arsene gone banners supporting him are just as offensive as the banners requesting he leave are to those who wish him to stay.

I would think that in the interests of improving relations with all group of fans either a blanket ban or no ban would be required, if the second option then i can't see the problem as long as the banners have no directly insulting or abusive statements but clarity of what is allowed would be required.

Also i'd seek clarification on the terms of agreement for the season ticket holders exactly where within the clauses it mentions only banners supportive of the club and/or owners are allowed and wherein exactly their authority lies to remove banners at other clubs grounds.

I believe If they did not receive written permission to do so from the other club and also that neither club provided prior warning that they would do so then the removal of a persons property constitutes at least one if not two illegal acts.

Cheers Muzz

Some good points there, Muzz.

Just one issue. I think you'll find the club would respond that it is the offense caused to the club, the board, the manager, and other employees of the club that they are concerned with, as it is their property we are visiting. Thus pro-Wenger banners might be offensive to someone that wants him gone, but would not be offensive to anyone else. Tbh, and I'm not having a pop at you here Muzz, I think it would sidetrack the issue to get into a debate about the minutiae of what offends whom at this point. Might be better to just try and reach an agreement about what the Wenger-out camp can bring into the stadium, and a guarantee that the club or its employees don't interfere with our law-abiding protesting fans in other club's stadiums, if the protest is inoffensive.

[Herd]

Where does the "Eboue is my home Boy " Banner fit into the equation !

[augie]

Ed not wanting to foster any issues with the club as it would be counter productive however could you, if you don't already intend to, clarify exactly what constitutes an offensive banner as i'm fairly sure that for those who wish to see Arsene gone banners supporting him are just as offensive as the banners requesting he leave are to those who wish him to stay.

I would think that in the interests of improving relations with all group of fans either a blanket ban or no ban would be required, if the second option then i can't see the problem as long as the banners have no directly insulting or abusive statements but clarity of what is allowed would be required.

Also i'd seek clarification on the terms of agreement for the season ticket holders exactly where within the clauses it mentions only banners supportive of the club and/or owners are allowed and wherein exactly their authority lies to remove banners at other clubs grounds.

I believe If they did not receive written permission to do so from the other club and also that neither club provided prior warning that they would do so then the removal of a persons property constitutes at least one if not two illegal acts.

Cheers Muzz

Some good points there, Muzz.

Just one issue. I think you'll find the club would respond that it is the offense caused to the club, the board, the manager, and other employees of the club that they are concerned with, as it is their property we are visiting. Thus pro-Wenger banners might be offensive to someone that wants him gone, but would not be offensive to anyone else. Tbh, and I'm not having a pop at you here Muzz, I think it would sidetrack the issue to get into a debate about the minutiae of what offends whom at this point. Might be better to just try and reach an agreement about what the Wenger-out camp can bring into the stadium, and a guarantee that the club or its employees don't interfere with our law-abiding protesting fans in other club's stadiums, if the protest is inoffensive.

Yes and no - I agree wholeheartedly with the suggestion that it is a blanket banner on ALL banners, or it should allow non abusive banners regardless of which camp the supporters are in. Displaying a banner saying "wenger out" is neither abusive nor threatening, and for the club to suggest that it is offensive would be ludicrous
If the club bans all banners then me and the rest of the wob can have no complaints, but it has to be all or nothing for me - if not then we will see a situation where even a "please can we have a new manager" will be deemed offensive and it will cause uproar amongst fans and make the club a laughing stock amongst the broader football community. In fact I doubt if you will ever see a more respectful banner than the "arsene thanks for the memories but it's time to say goodbye", and for the club to class that as offensive would be a disgrace

[DB10GOONER]

Ed not wanting to foster any issues with the club as it would be counter productive however could you, if you don't already intend to, clarify exactly what constitutes an offensive banner as i'm fairly sure that for those who wish to see Arsene gone banners supporting him are just as offensive as the banners requesting he leave are to those who wish him to stay.

I would think that in the interests of improving relations with all group of fans either a blanket ban or no ban would be required, if the second option then i can't see the problem as long as the banners have no directly insulting or abusive statements but clarity of what is allowed would be required.

Also i'd seek clarification on the terms of agreement for the season ticket holders exactly where within the clauses it mentions only banners supportive of the club and/or owners are allowed and wherein exactly their authority lies to remove banners at other clubs grounds.

I believe If they did not receive written permission to do so from the other club and also that neither club provided prior warning that they would do so then the removal of a persons property constitutes at least one if not two illegal acts.

Cheers Muzz

Some good points there, Muzz.

Just one issue. I think you'll find the club would respond that it is the offense caused to the club, the board, the manager, and other employees of the club that they are concerned with, as it is their property we are visiting. Thus pro-Wenger banners might be offensive to someone that wants him gone, but would not be offensive to anyone else. Tbh, and I'm not having a pop at you here Muzz, I think it would sidetrack the issue to get into a debate about the minutiae of what offends whom at this point. Might be better to just try and reach an agreement about what the Wenger-out camp can bring into the stadium, and a guarantee that the club or its employees don't interfere with our law-abiding protesting fans in other club's stadiums, if the protest is inoffensive.

Yes and no - I agree wholeheartedly with the suggestion that it is a blanket banner on ALL banners, or it should allow non abusive banners regardless of which camp the supporters are in. Displaying a banner saying "wenger out" is neither abusive nor threatening, and for the club to suggest that it is offensive would be ludicrous
If the club bans all banners then me and the rest of the wob can have no complaints, but it has to be all or nothing for me - if not then we will see a situation where even a "please can we have a new manager" will be deemed offensive and it will cause uproar amongst fans and make the club a laughing stock amongst the broader football community. In fact I doubt if you will ever see a more respectful banner than the "arsene thanks for the memories but it's time to say goodbye", and for the club to class that as offensive would be a disgrace

That's not really the point though. If you approach the club with an attitude of "Well I want pro-Wenger banners banned too because they offend me" they will just shut off to any discussion and we will have achieved what? Nothing. At the end of the day they own the stadium, we are visitors there and they make the rules. We have to work around those rules. Antagonising the club will achieve fuck all because no matter how much some on here want to believe a protest will suddenly turn everyone against Wenger, it won't. The club will just roll on without us in attendance.

[augie]

I'm not suggesting approaching the club in an aggressive manner at all - firstly I would ask them (nicely) why they view/treat pro wenger banners differently than those that are calling for a change. Then I would suggest to them (again nicely) that maybe prohibiting all manner of banners might be better to avoid any confrontation between various supporter factions.
I agree that they do own the club but we are not "visitors", we are customers We either work with the club to agree a framework going forward, or we allow this hostility to continue to fester
What do you see as an outcome to this meeting Alan ? If the fans are just going along to be told that the club will not allow banners calling for a new manager to be displayed but they will continue to allow pro wenger banners to be used, then what is the point in any supporter attending this meeting ? Whether this is just a pr fob by the club to the fans remains to be seen, and whether any compromise/agreement/change can be implemented also is uncertain, but this is surely the platform for our disgruntled fans to get their views across and to seek a fairer policy for all ?

[DB10GOONER]

I'm not suggesting approaching the club in an aggressive manner at all - firstly I would ask them (nicely) why they view/treat pro wenger banners differently than those that are calling for a change. Then I would suggest to them (again nicely) that maybe prohibiting all manner of banners might be better to avoid any confrontation between various supporter factions.
I agree that they do own the club but we are not "visitors", we are customers We either work with the club to agree a framework going forward, or we allow this hostility to continue to fester
What do you see as an outcome to this meeting Alan ? If the fans are just going along to be told that the club will not allow banners calling for a new manager to be displayed but they will continue to allow pro wenger banners to be used, then what is the point in any supporter attending this meeting ? Whether this is just a pr fob by the club to the fans remains to be seen, and whether any compromise/agreement/change can be implemented also is uncertain, but this is surely the platform for our disgruntled fans to get their views across and to seek a fairer policy for all ?

My point is that our fans that go to this meeting would only achieve pissing off the club by making statements like the one in red, no matter how politely it was put. I just think it would sidetrack the discussion about things like what happened at Citeh where the club had absolutely no right to confiscate banners of any kind. If the banners were offensive (and they weren't) it would have been Citeh's place to remove them.

TBH augie I struggle to see this meeting as anything but a cynical PR exercise by Gazidis... but then I am a cynical fucker. I honestly doubt the club will ever allow anti-Wenger banners into the Conglomerates, but it might be possible to reach an agreement that they do not interfere with our away fans in other clubs' stadiums. Might be possible.

What do I think the outcome will be? Again, being cynical, I think nothing will be achieved really. Will Gazidis allow anti-Wenger banners into the Conglomerates? No. Will he agree to instruct the club stewards to not interfere with Anti-Wenger banners at away grounds? I doubt that too tbh.

[NickF]

I'm not suggesting approaching the club in an aggressive manner at all - firstly I would ask them (nicely) why they view/treat pro wenger banners differently than those that are calling for a change. Then I would suggest to them (again nicely) that maybe prohibiting all manner of banners might be better to avoid any confrontation between various supporter factions.
I agree that they do own the club but we are not "visitors", we are customers We either work with the club to agree a framework going forward, or we allow this hostility to continue to fester
What do you see as an outcome to this meeting Alan ? If the fans are just going along to be told that the club will not allow banners calling for a new manager to be displayed but they will continue to allow pro wenger banners to be used, then what is the point in any supporter attending this meeting ? Whether this is just a pr fob by the club to the fans remains to be seen, and whether any compromise/agreement/change can be implemented also is uncertain, but this is surely the platform for our disgruntled fans to get their views across and to seek a fairer policy for all ?

My point is that our fans that go to this meeting would only achieve pissing off the club by making statements like the one in red, no matter how politely it was put. I just think it would sidetrack the discussion about things like what happened at Citeh where the club had absolutely no right to confiscate banners of any kind. If the banners were offensive (and they weren't) it would have been Citeh's place to remove them.

TBH augie I struggle to see this meeting as anything but a cynical PR exercise by Gazidis... but then I am a cynical fucker. I honestly doubt the club will ever allow anti-Wenger banners into the Conglomerates, but it might be possible to reach an agreement that they do not interfere with our away fans in other clubs' stadiums. Might be possible.

What do I think the outcome will be? Again, being cynical, I think nothing will be achieved really. Will Gazidis allow anti-Wenger banners into the Conglomerates? No. Will he agree to instruct the club stewards to not interfere with Anti-Wenger banners at away grounds? I doubt that too tbh.

You might be surprised to know it was actually quite easy to get banners into the Emirates. They will check your backpack but won't ask to look at the banners. Nowadays they have to check and search everyone going in so they have better things to do.

As far as any meeting goes, the only thing I would be looking for is an acknowledgment of what actually happened at City rather than the BS they have been spouting.

Unless they are going to remove all the supporter club banners that are hung around the middle tier already can't see how they can tell people banners aren't allowed.

[gooner.ed]

Very busy today, but just had a phone call from the club. I will be contacting those who have been in touch with me via email about this later today or at worst tomorrow, depending on how the day goes.

However, one thing I would like to put out in the meantime subsequent to the call which would be useful to know

Has anyone ever had a banner confiscated before entering a home match? If so, was there a reason given?

Those that have had banners confiscated inside the stadium will presumably have had them taken on the grounds of blocking someone's view, assuming raised when there was something to look at on the pitch, but I am more interested in what may not be allowed in, in the first instance.

Feel free to email me - [email protected] - if you prefer or just reply here

[GoonerMuzz]

I'm not suggesting approaching the club in an aggressive manner at all - firstly I would ask them (nicely) why they view/treat pro wenger banners differently than those that are calling for a change. Then I would suggest to them (again nicely) that maybe prohibiting all manner of banners might be better to avoid any confrontation between various supporter factions.
I agree that they do own the club but we are not "visitors", we are customers We either work with the club to agree a framework going forward, or we allow this hostility to continue to fester
What do you see as an outcome to this meeting Alan ? If the fans are just going along to be told that the club will not allow banners calling for a new manager to be displayed but they will continue to allow pro wenger banners to be used, then what is the point in any supporter attending this meeting ? Whether this is just a pr fob by the club to the fans remains to be seen, and whether any compromise/agreement/change can be implemented also is uncertain, but this is surely the platform for our disgruntled fans to get their views across and to seek a fairer policy for all ?

My point is that our fans that go to this meeting would only achieve pissing off the club by making statements like the one in red, no matter how politely it was put. I just think it would sidetrack the discussion about things like what happened at Citeh where the club had absolutely no right to confiscate banners of any kind. If the banners were offensive (and they weren't) it would have been Citeh's place to remove them.

TBH augie I struggle to see this meeting as anything but a cynical PR exercise by Gazidis... but then I am a cynical fucker. I honestly doubt the club will ever allow anti-Wenger banners into the Conglomerates, but it might be possible to reach an agreement that they do not interfere with our away fans in other clubs' stadiums. Might be possible.

What do I think the outcome will be? Again, being cynical, I think nothing will be achieved really. Will Gazidis allow anti-Wenger banners into the Conglomerates? No. Will he agree to instruct the club stewards to not interfere with Anti-Wenger banners at away grounds? I doubt that too tbh.

Agree with both of you but with the current gentrification of football that is happening, this worries me beyond just the banners and not just for our great club. What's next singing, shouting, not being allowed to stand... oh wait

Part of the enjoyment of going to football is the fact that you can let off steam, show some anti-club/manager/player or whatever banners, sing disparaging chants and it is accepted to a degree but this situation has me seriously worried, and as i say if it can happen here it wont be long until it spreads to every club, and then to international teams and then other sports.

If I were going to this meeting i'd be ensuring someone i relied on was taking copious notes of what is said because i'm not sure any minutes taken by the club will reflect everything said and if the outcome is left hanging i'd get the FSF involved because ultimately you pay for certain experience going to football matches and yes every ones experience is different but the latte drinkers seem to be more and more killing the atmosphere at games and this is yet another step down that road.

I know i sound a bit tinfoil-hat here but it just feels more and more that the game is being taken away from the match going fans to make sure everything is palatable to the sit at home TV audience and as i've said if this is allowed to pass then it wont be long before other clubs start doing the same thing and all stewards will be taking away banners or ejecting you from grounds for getting over excited