As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
DB10GOONER wrote:Awful. Just awful. Insipid, gutless, negative, technically poor, useless, wasteful, uninspired.... and that's just Ramsey!
Many things in that match pissed me off; Herrera diving, Valencia diving, Darmian not getting sent off for at least 3 or 4 bookables, nearly all of our players going missing, Sanchez being in headless-chicken mode running around but achieving fuck all, Ozil showing that whilst he is our best player he ain't a scrapper and if things aren't going well he just loses interest, Elneny afraid to do anything but his 5-yard Denilson impression, Nacho skinned continuously (of course being left constantly exposed by Messi-Lite Ramsey doesn't help), sister-in-law-molester Giggity Giggs insisting it was a penno when everyone else all agreed no it was a dive (Sounness even pointing out that Valencia elbowed Nacho before the dive), Wenger sitting on his hands until we went one-nil down and then... sitting on his hands until the 72nd minute substitution alarm went off in his otherwise empty head, Mr Messi-Lite Ramsey trying a Cruyff Turn and tripping over his own feet the fucking idiot, Ramsey continuously pissing away possession under little or no pressure, Ramsey offering zero support to his full back, Ramsey slowing every attack down by taking 4 or 5 touch's, Ramsey standing there with both arms out wide insisting he get the ball, and just Ramsey in general.
Only highlights were; the face on Moron-hio when we equalised, the face on the sister-in-law-molester after the game, some decent saves from Cech, a great cameo from the Ox just doing what an attacking winger/FB should do - drop the shoulder, beat your man, whip in a cross, and Giroud's imperious header. Someone up above blamed Rojo and Jones for failing to stop him which is total bullshit - Giroud did what a striker should do, arrive late and out climb the CH's. He absolutely beasted them. FFS credit where credit is due.
What i really want to know is - What did you think of Ramsey in this game
DB10GOONER wrote:Awful. Just awful. Insipid, gutless, negative, technically poor, useless, wasteful, uninspired.... and that's just Ramsey!
Many things in that match pissed me off; Herrera diving, Valencia diving, Darmian not getting sent off for at least 3 or 4 bookables, nearly all of our players going missing, Sanchez being in headless-chicken mode running around but achieving fuck all, Ozil showing that whilst he is our best player he ain't a scrapper and if things aren't going well he just loses interest, Elneny afraid to do anything but his 5-yard Denilson impression, Nacho skinned continuously (of course being left constantly exposed by Messi-Lite Ramsey doesn't help), sister-in-law-molester Giggity Giggs insisting it was a penno when everyone else all agreed no it was a dive (Sounness even pointing out that Valencia elbowed Nacho before the dive), Wenger sitting on his hands until we went one-nil down and then... sitting on his hands until the 72nd minute substitution alarm went off in his otherwise empty head, Mr Messi-Lite Ramsey trying a Cruyff Turn and tripping over his own feet the fucking idiot, Ramsey continuously pissing away possession under little or no pressure, Ramsey offering zero support to his full back, Ramsey slowing every attack down by taking 4 or 5 touch's, Ramsey standing there with both arms out wide insisting he get the ball, and just Ramsey in general.
Only highlights were; the face on Moron-hio when we equalised, the face on the sister-in-law-molester after the game, some decent saves from Cech, a great cameo from the Ox just doing what an attacking winger/FB should do - drop the shoulder, beat your man, whip in a cross, and Giroud's imperious header. Someone up above blamed Rojo and Jones for failing to stop him which is total bullshit - Giroud did what a striker should do, arrive late and out climb the CH's. He absolutely beasted them. FFS credit where credit is due.
What i really want to know is - What did you think of Ramsey in this game
I find it hard to understand why he is so bad for Arsenal when i thought he was superb for Wales in the Euros, There is definataley a top player in there but Wenger cant seem to get it out of him
SPARKSY wrote:Talking to a United fan after the game, we both agreed that the one thing you can take from this game is that there are only 3 teams who are going to win the title now, Chelsea, City or Liverpool. The rest aren't good enough.
So we are back to where we always are fighting for that top 4 spot again.
On paper 2 draws is not the end of the world but what the last 2 games have shown is that we really should have been beaten in both, no statement of intent and a feeling of we've seen it all before. So yeah, we'll be thereabouts by beating the Hulls and Sunderlands of this world but play the top sides and we are shown up time and again. And to top that do we really see many points from our 3 away games in December?
People blame Ramsey but he is being played out of position all the time. How long will Sanchez hang around? Why do people praise Ozil so much? Was he playing Saturday?
The common theme in everything this team does is Wenger. The squad is decent but is capable of much more under a better manager so we can only hope that if we fail again, he may decide his time is up.
Sorry mate but that is horseshit! No matter where you play him he slows the attack, over-elaborates on the ball, loses possession under no real pressure and is generally a liability. It's a myth that he's being played out of position - he has no position that is beneficial to us.
People rightly praise Ozil because he is a world class player. Yes he goes missing in some games but that was also the case with world class players like Henry and Bergkamp. You retain players like that because they can come up with that moment of magic, that defence splitting pass, or that shot out of nowhere that can win you a game. Players like that are not work horses, they don't run around like headless chickens, they pick their moments. Every team in the world can "carry" a player of that class if they are set up right. And yeah "carry" is probably too strong a word... Basically great players need other great players that think on the same level they do, and they also need the runners and workers to pick up their share of the donkey work.
Remember Bergkamp back when he was playing with the likes of Hartson, Selley, McGoldrick and Hillier? Totally different to when he was playing with the likes of Vieira, Petit, Henry and Overmars. Ozil is the same. He gets frustrated by average players like Elneny, Giroud, Coquelin etc.
DB10GOONER wrote:Awful. Just awful. Insipid, gutless, negative, technically poor, useless, wasteful, uninspired.... and that's just Ramsey!
Many things in that match pissed me off; Herrera diving, Valencia diving, Darmian not getting sent off for at least 3 or 4 bookables, nearly all of our players going missing, Sanchez being in headless-chicken mode running around but achieving fuck all, Ozil showing that whilst he is our best player he ain't a scrapper and if things aren't going well he just loses interest, Elneny afraid to do anything but his 5-yard Denilson impression, Nacho skinned continuously (of course being left constantly exposed by Messi-Lite Ramsey doesn't help), sister-in-law-molester Giggity Giggs insisting it was a penno when everyone else all agreed no it was a dive (Sounness even pointing out that Valencia elbowed Nacho before the dive), Wenger sitting on his hands until we went one-nil down and then... sitting on his hands until the 72nd minute substitution alarm went off in his otherwise empty head, Mr Messi-Lite Ramsey trying a Cruyff Turn and tripping over his own feet the fucking idiot, Ramsey continuously pissing away possession under little or no pressure, Ramsey offering zero support to his full back, Ramsey slowing every attack down by taking 4 or 5 touch's, Ramsey standing there with both arms out wide insisting he get the ball, and just Ramsey in general.
Only highlights were; the face on Moron-hio when we equalised, the face on the sister-in-law-molester after the game, some decent saves from Cech, a great cameo from the Ox just doing what an attacking winger/FB should do - drop the shoulder, beat your man, whip in a cross, and Giroud's imperious header. Someone up above blamed Rojo and Jones for failing to stop him which is total bullshit - Giroud did what a striker should do, arrive late and out climb the CH's. He absolutely beasted them. FFS credit where credit is due.
What i really want to know is - What did you think of Ramsey in this game
I find it hard to understand why he is so bad for Arsenal when i thought he was superb for Wales in the Euros, There is definataley a top player in there but Wenger cant seem to get it out of him
And that's the reason; Wenger.
He tells Ramsey to "go and play, go express yourself" and gives him free reign to fuck around. With Wales I'd bet my life Coleman says "keep it simple, pass the ball and move, don't fuck about".
augie wrote:The victims are NOT title challengers - the meeja are in wankathon mode about them at the mo, but they are not all that and as soon as coutinho gets worn down carrying those c.unts, they will fall apart
Have to agree. They will be like us scrapping for 4th place.
SPARKSY wrote:Talking to a United fan after the game, we both agreed that the one thing you can take from this game is that there are only 3 teams who are going to win the title now, Chelsea, City or Liverpool. The rest aren't good enough.
So we are back to where we always are fighting for that top 4 spot again.
On paper 2 draws is not the end of the world but what the last 2 games have shown is that we really should have been beaten in both, no statement of intent and a feeling of we've seen it all before. So yeah, we'll be thereabouts by beating the Hulls and Sunderlands of this world but play the top sides and we are shown up time and again. And to top that do we really see many points from our 3 away games in December?
People blame Ramsey but he is being played out of position all the time. How long will Sanchez hang around? Why do people praise Ozil so much? Was he playing Saturday?
The common theme in everything this team does is Wenger. The squad is decent but is capable of much more under a better manager so we can only hope that if we fail again, he may decide his time is up.
Sorry mate but that is horseshit! No matter where you play him he slows the attack, over-elaborates on the ball, loses possession under no real pressure and is generally a liability. It's a myth that he's being played out of position - he has no position that is beneficial to us.
People rightly praise Ozil because he is a world class player. Yes he goes missing in some games but that was also the case with world class players like Henry and Bergkamp. You retain players like that because they can come up with that moment of magic, that defence splitting pass, or that shot out of nowhere that can win you a game. Players like that are not work horses, they don't run around like headless chickens, they pick their moments. Every team in the world can "carry" a player of that class if they are set up right. And yeah "carry" is probably too strong a word... Basically great players need other great players that think on the same level they do, and they also need the runners and workers to pick up their share of the donkey work.
Remember Bergkamp back when he was playing with the likes of Hartson, Selley, McGoldrick and Hillier? Totally different to when he was playing with the likes of Vieira, Petit, Henry and Overmars. Ozil is the same. He gets frustrated by average players like Elneny, Giroud, Coquelin etc.
To that I would say " why was he in such fantastic form a year or so back before he got injured, when he couldn't stop scoring ( playing CM). Why did (and does) he also show such good form, playing for Wales with players from "lesser" teams around him. (maybe because he plays CM??)
Play him there on a regular basis and you may just see a completely different player. You know Wenger - square pegs in round holes.
Ozil is a decent player, I agree, but world class players step up to the plate on a regular basis when you need them. Unfortunately he doesn't do it often enough. Yes, maybe with some better quality around him you may see a better player but certainly at the moment he does not turn up in games against the bigger, better sides.
SPARKSY wrote:Talking to a United fan after the game, we both agreed that the one thing you can take from this game is that there are only 3 teams who are going to win the title now, Chelsea, City or Liverpool. The rest aren't good enough.
So we are back to where we always are fighting for that top 4 spot again.
On paper 2 draws is not the end of the world but what the last 2 games have shown is that we really should have been beaten in both, no statement of intent and a feeling of we've seen it all before. So yeah, we'll be thereabouts by beating the Hulls and Sunderlands of this world but play the top sides and we are shown up time and again. And to top that do we really see many points from our 3 away games in December?
People blame Ramsey but he is being played out of position all the time. How long will Sanchez hang around? Why do people praise Ozil so much? Was he playing Saturday?
The common theme in everything this team does is Wenger. The squad is decent but is capable of much more under a better manager so we can only hope that if we fail again, he may decide his time is up.
Sorry mate but that is horseshit! No matter where you play him he slows the attack, over-elaborates on the ball, loses possession under no real pressure and is generally a liability. It's a myth that he's being played out of position - he has no position that is beneficial to us.
People rightly praise Ozil because he is a world class player. Yes he goes missing in some games but that was also the case with world class players like Henry and Bergkamp. You retain players like that because they can come up with that moment of magic, that defence splitting pass, or that shot out of nowhere that can win you a game. Players like that are not work horses, they don't run around like headless chickens, they pick their moments. Every team in the world can "carry" a player of that class if they are set up right. And yeah "carry" is probably too strong a word... Basically great players need other great players that think on the same level they do, and they also need the runners and workers to pick up their share of the donkey work.
Remember Bergkamp back when he was playing with the likes of Hartson, Selley, McGoldrick and Hillier? Totally different to when he was playing with the likes of Vieira, Petit, Henry and Overmars. Ozil is the same. He gets frustrated by average players like Elneny, Giroud, Coquelin etc.
To that I would say " why was he in such fantastic form a year or so back before he got injured, when he couldn't stop scoring ( playing CM). Why did (and does) he also show such good form, playing for Wales with players from "lesser" teams around him. (maybe because he plays CM??)
Play him there on a regular basis and you may just see a completely different player. You know Wenger - square pegs in round holes.
Ozil is a decent player, I agree, but world class players step up to the plate on a regular basis when you need them. Unfortunately he doesn't do it often enough. Yes, maybe with some better quality around him you may see a better player but certainly at the moment he does not turn up in games against the bigger, better sides.
Regarding Ramsey's one great season (well two thirds of a season). I honestly believe a couple of things came together to facilitate his form;
1. Giroud too was in rare form, laying on great knock downs and link ups for Ramsey to run onto.
2. I genuinely believe he had his "Rob Lee season" that year, never to be repeated.
3. He was more disciplined that season, it was BECAUSE of his rare form that season and his continuous media interviews that after it he suddenly started believing he was the Welsh Messi and decided he could start showboating like a cúnt at every opportunity.
Unfortunately for Ramsey (and us) his "Rob Lee Season" ended like Rob Lee's did, Giroud went off the boil, and Wenger let Ramsey "go express" himself instead of reining him in.
I absolutely believe we will NEVER see him in that form again. But that's not to say a better manager wouldn't get some level of decent performance out of him.
Well that was a surprising point rescued at the death
I didn't bother watching the game live for reasons that will be posted elsewhere.
I've seen the MotD highlights and it's telling that the game was buried into the middle of the programme. Plus, it's also telling that vast chunks of the match could easily be cut out.
Looks like we were lucky that Manure didn't get their penalty shout. We didn't really do anything in the game until the end. As FG would say; two shite sides, shite game. Our only shot on target was Donkey's goal. I think he is a decent Plan B coming off the bench, nothing more. Although inevitably his fan club are questioning why he wasn't on from the start. I doubt he'd have been as effective.
Definitely one point gained, much more than I could have expected against Mourinho or Manure. Even more so, given how we played.
Everything seems to have been said. Awful awful performance. Ramsey should not be near this team - there's no position available for him. Even if there was a position available for him he still shouldn't be near the team because he's fkn shite right now.
The coq-elneny partnership does not work at all, it kills our options going forward. one of xhaka-cazorla has to be there and with santi's injuries right now xhaka must play as much as possible.
only positive for me was being there when we equalised, one of the craziest goal celebrations i've been in. oh and yelling at mourinho, the c*nt that he is.
I'm still at a loss to explain Wenger's decision to start Ramsey on Saturday. I know he is a clueless *word censored* most of the time, but he would have known that Valencia was going to start, so putting Ramsey out on the wing, effectively meant Valencia had the freedom to run down the wing unchallenged. For his pace alone, Ox clearly should have started. I don't know whether a decision like this is down to incompetence, or simply Wenger deciding to start Ramsey, no matter how illogical it is. Yet again, the media happily stay quiet, rather than questioning Wenger on his clear incompetence. I suppose we will have to wait til our usual last 16 drubbing, and post new year collapse, before the media actually tell it like it is.
BFG4 wrote:I'm still at a loss to explain Wenger's decision to start Ramsey on Saturday. I know he is a clueless *word censored* most of the time, but he would have known that Valencia was going to start, so putting Ramsey out on the wing, effectively meant Valencia had the freedom to run down the wing unchallenged. For his pace alone, Ox clearly should have started. I don't know whether a decision like this is down to incompetence, or simply Wenger deciding to start Ramsey, no matter how illogical it is. Yet again, the media happily stay quiet, rather than questioning Wenger on his clear incompetence. I suppose we will have to wait til our usual last 16 drubbing, and post new year collapse, before the media actually tell it like it is.
Yep, and when they do start to question him, he'll get a little run of wins going (when it's too late to actually win anything) and the media will then (again) turn on us ungrateful fans for doubting Wenger... cue Merson with careful what you wish for... Steve Bruce with who could replace him... Niall Quinn with fans have short memories... and some gobshite like John Cross with he has earned the right to a contract extension... etc etc blah fucking blah etc...
BFG4 wrote:I'm still at a loss to explain Wenger's decision to start Ramsey on Saturday. I know he is a clueless *word censored* most of the time, but he would have known that Valencia was going to start, so putting Ramsey out on the wing, effectively meant Valencia had the freedom to run down the wing unchallenged. For his pace alone, Ox clearly should have started. I don't know whether a decision like this is down to incompetence, or simply Wenger deciding to start Ramsey, no matter how illogical it is. Yet again, the media happily stay quiet, rather than questioning Wenger on his clear incompetence. I suppose we will have to wait til our usual last 16 drubbing, and post new year collapse, before the media actually tell it like it is.
Yep, and when they do start to question him, he'll get a little run of wins going (when it's too late to actually win anything) and the media will then (again) turn on us ungrateful fans for doubting Wenger... cue Merson with careful what you wish for... Steve Bruce with who could replace him... Niall Quinn with fans have short memories... and some gobshite like John Cross with he has earned the right to a contract extension... etc etc blah fucking blah etc...
Yes it's the stuff that gets churned out year after year.My own current Wegner 'favourite' quote is Keown 'Arsene has earned the right to leave when he wants'.
The first season we drop out of the top 4,which of course could be this one will only result in all the above saying he has earned the right to get them back in the top 4......so utterly predictable.
The Ramsey situation is as simple as this the question about playing him out of position (he shouldn't be playing anywhere) on the left will only result in him being picked to play there week in week out for months,the manager doesn't like being questioned however obviously wrong he is.
BFG4 wrote:I'm still at a loss to explain Wenger's decision to start Ramsey on Saturday. I know he is a clueless *word censored* most of the time, but he would have known that Valencia was going to start, so putting Ramsey out on the wing, effectively meant Valencia had the freedom to run down the wing unchallenged. For his pace alone, Ox clearly should have started. I don't know whether a decision like this is down to incompetence, or simply Wenger deciding to start Ramsey, no matter how illogical it is. Yet again, the media happily stay quiet, rather than questioning Wenger on his clear incompetence. I suppose we will have to wait til our usual last 16 drubbing, and post new year collapse, before the media actually tell it like it is.
Yep, and when they do start to question him, he'll get a little run of wins going (when it's too late to actually win anything) and the media will then (again) turn on us ungrateful fans for doubting Wenger... cue Merson with careful what you wish for... Steve Bruce with who could replace him... Niall Quinn with fans have short memories... and some gobshite like John Cross with he has earned the right to a contract extension... etc etc blah fucking blah etc...
Yes it's the stuff that gets churned out year after year.My own current Wegner 'favourite' quote is Keown 'Arsene has earned the right to leave when he wants'.
The first season we drop out of the top 4,which of course could be this one will only result in all the above saying he has earned the right to get them back in the top 4......so utterly predictable.
The Ramsey situation is as simple as this the question about playing him out of position (he shouldn't be playing anywhere) on the left will only result in him being picked to play there week in week out for months,the manager doesn't like being questioned however obviously wrong he is.
