THE WENGER THREAD

[rjw1985]

OK so first of all I'd like to apologies for any insults, that is not on and I accept that. It was reactionary to the abuse I felt I was getting from the get go but still doesn't make it right.

Now back to the point at hand and hopefully we can get some serious and meaningful debate occurring, I believe Wenger should be given another year contract extension out of respect for being the greatest manager we have ever had and bringing some of the greatest players we have ever had to the club. He should be allowed to stay to facilitate the resigning of Sanchez and Ozil, who I'm convinced will both leave at the end of the season if Wenger goes too.

Wenger didn't bring Ozil and Sanchez to Arsenal, they were board signings to try quell the very obvious unrest among the locals, Its been a very long time since Arsenal FC actively competed for a players signature and won...both Ozil and Sanchez were surplus to requirements hence their respective availability! Wengers record in the transfer market is equally as incompetent as his record in the PL for the last 10 years.

Oh that's convenient also, so he was responsible for the crap signings but not the good ones!! My God this is good

Nobody said that at all.....in the cases of Sanchez and Ozil im saying that they were not wenger signings, where as in the case of Viera its widely believed Wenger lined him up before taking the job so Viera is a good wenger signing.

That's exactly how it read but anyway is Vieira the only example of a great signing by Wenger? Not by a long stretch - Anelka, Henry, Pires, Petit, Fabregas, Campbell, Silva, Kos to name a few

[rjw1985]

OK so first of all I'd like to apologies for any insults, that is not on and I accept that. It was reactionary to the abuse I felt I was getting from the get go but still doesn't make it right.

Now back to the point at hand and hopefully we can get some serious and meaningful debate occurring, I believe Wenger should be given another year contract extension out of respect for being the greatest manager we have ever had and bringing some of the greatest players we have ever had to the club. He should be allowed to stay to facilitate the resigning of Sanchez and Ozil, who I'm convinced will both leave at the end of the season if Wenger goes too.

Nobody, no matter the profession, should be given a contract extension based on nostalgia or due to their performance a decade plus ago. If you no longer cut the mustard, then despite what you have achieved in the past, it's time to say goodbye. (There's a banner in there somewhere)

I also think you're completely wrong about the Ozil/Sanchez situation, for me Ozil stays no matter who the manager is next season. I think he's very happy in the city and I don't see any of the massive European clubs coming in for him so he signs.

The only hope we have of keeping Alexis is by bringing in a manager who will make us serious contenders for the two big prizes. No way he's hanging around for another 4 seasons under the current "happy to take part" regime.

I'm pretty sure Ozil was quoted as saying that main reason he signed for us was because of Wenger and also that he was waiting to see what Wenger's future was with the club before deciding his own. That tells me he will leave if Wenger does.

Ozil was indeed quoted as saying both. It's well established on here I think Ozil is our best player (yep Sanchez works harder and is more effective) but as technical visionary footballers go, Ozil is up near the Bergkamp category for me, but I would certainly be willing to lose Ozil and Sanchez if it meant also getting rid of Wenger. We need a new manager with new ideas.

Wow, really? I'm sure your in the minority there, hope the rest don't vilify you

[rjw1985]

OK so first of all I'd like to apologies for any insults, that is not on and I accept that. It was reactionary to the abuse I felt I was getting from the get go but still doesn't make it right.

Now back to the point at hand and hopefully we can get some serious and meaningful debate occurring, I believe Wenger should be given another year contract extension out of respect for being the greatest manager we have ever had and bringing some of the greatest players we have ever had to the club. He should be allowed to stay to facilitate the resigning of Sanchez and Ozil, who I'm convinced will both leave at the end of the season if Wenger goes too.

Fair enough.

Personally I used to be of the mindset that Wenger deserved to be respected for his achievements in that first decade and I had wanted him to leave with his head held high and dignity intact. But even that has been eroded away over the last 10 years. I don't hate him the way many on here do. I can't. The man gave me some of the best footballing times I ever had. Similarly - unlike the bastard Flash ( ) - I can forgive GG managing the scum for the same reasons.

I want Wenger gone more than any Arsenal manager in my time as a Gooner.

The repeated mistakes by Wenger over the last 10 years have cost us dearly. The renewing and extending of contracts for players proven to be poor or rubbish (often with insane pay hikes), the failure to strengthen in January in a couple of seasons when doing so could have won us the PL only to watch our challenge wilt under the usual squad exhaustion, player fatigue, injuries and loss in form - all these mistakes are made on an annual basis and the fact he keeps making them is criminal.

Some points well made that I cannot disagree with but please don't come at me with this 'player exhaustion/fatigue/form/injury' rubbish. These players are paid more in a week than most of us earn in years of actual, real hard fucking work - for running round a field for 90 minutes twice a week - come on man these guys need to wake up and take more responsibility for not winning much for the last decade. I truly believe Wenger built a strong enough squad and did as much as he could to get this team ready to win the PL last year but they bottled it and let him down

You have to take a look at how the game and training techniques have changed and how players have changed. Being exhausted is not just about being physically tired but also mentally sharp. The first 5 yards in any footballer is in their head. It's an old old saying but it is true. And form? Form is the great intangible. A player can be world class for months on end and then suddenly no rhyme or reason he goes to shit.

We look on modern players as pampered molly coddled brats that don't work hard and to some extent that is true. But the physical and psychological impact of playing a high performance sport competitively at the highest level every 3 or 4 days (on average) is mentally draining. That's why you need a squad and why there has to be a decent level in the squad players that come in when the first choice players get injured or tired or drop in form.

And I agree there have been players that have let Wenger down. But then surely it is Wenger's job to either man-manage better performances out of them or drop them and replace them with better motivated players? He does neither. If he hadn't persisted with a seriously off-form Giroud for the entire second half of last season, who knows what we might have achieved... but he did persist with him.

Id take dose of that 'mental draining' every few days if I got £100K plus a week for it, doesn't wash with me this crap about needing a rest blah blah blah

[rjw1985]

Plus who do you think was responsible for innovating and updating the training techniques etc. of old

Wenger is widely credited for helping English football change immensely in that respect

[xisstential]

Mention of the players "letting Wenger down" raises the question of why they do not then subsequently get their asses kicked. They turn up against relegation fodder, mentally unprepared as Wenger will have us know, lose, then get given a couple of days off. It's lunacy the way he manages... and as for Ozil, he only wants to stay if Wenger stays (if that's even true) because he has never had it so good. NONE of these players have. Those like Sanchez who actually want to win things, won't stay. That alone should tell you what would be winners think of Wenger.

[Bob Bayliss]

OK so first of all I'd like to apologies for any insults, that is not on and I accept that. It was reactionary to the abuse I felt I was getting from the get go but still doesn't make it right.

Now back to the point at hand and hopefully we can get some serious and meaningful debate occurring, I believe Wenger should be given another year contract extension out of respect for being the greatest manager we have ever had and bringing some of the greatest players we have ever had to the club. He should be allowed to stay to facilitate the resigning of Sanchez and Ozil, who I'm convinced will both leave at the end of the season if Wenger goes too.

Let's get one thing straight: even if he had left when he should have done let alone after several years of mediocrity Wenger would not have been by any stretch of the imagination "the greatest manager we have ever had". That was, and probably always will be, Herbert Chapman. He turned us from a second-rate London club who had never won a single thing into the most renowned football club in the world within 10 years. Having won three consecutive league titles with Huddersfield in the 20s, he was on his way to a similar feat with Arsenal when he tragically died of pneumonia. And, of course, he had no Champions' League to go for, so the fourth-place trophy was meaningless to him.

[DB10GOONER]

Plus who do you think was responsible for innovating and updating the training techniques etc. of old

Wenger is widely credited for helping English football change immensely in that respect

And it is still being debated if that was a totally good thing or a mixed blessing - given the relatively poor performances of English teams when compared to their CL rivals in Spain, France, Germany and Italy - and the national team too.

Wenger's true innovation was introducing physically powerful and athletically fit central midfielders in an aggressive 4-4-2 system. The problems arose when he tried to ape the Barca model of light-framed midfielders in the late 2000's whilst the rest of the PL more or less stuck with the Arsenal late 1990s model of power, strength and fitness.

Most of our injuries are soft tissue muscle pulls etc which indicates our players are not physically up to the demands placed on their bodies.

[rjw1985]

Mention of the players "letting Wenger down" raises the question of why they do not then subsequently get their asses kicked. They turn up against relegation fodder, mentally unprepared as Wenger will have us know, lose, then get given a couple of days off. It's lunacy the way he manages... and as for Ozil, he only wants to stay if Wenger stays (if that's even true) because he has never had it so good. NONE of these players have. Those like Sanchez who actually want to win things, won't stay. That alone should tell you what would be winners think of Wenger.

Oh yeah the perennial loser that is Mesut Ozil (World Cup winner, La Liga winner, Copa del Rey winner, FA cup winner x2)

[rodders999]

Plus who do you think was responsible for innovating and updating the training techniques etc. of old

Wenger is widely credited for helping English football change immensely in that respect

Wenger revolutionised English football around the turn of the century, only problem with that is it's been revolutionised at least twice more since and he's still playing with the same hand.

[rjw1985]

OK so first of all I'd like to apologies for any insults, that is not on and I accept that. It was reactionary to the abuse I felt I was getting from the get go but still doesn't make it right.

Now back to the point at hand and hopefully we can get some serious and meaningful debate occurring, I believe Wenger should be given another year contract extension out of respect for being the greatest manager we have ever had and bringing some of the greatest players we have ever had to the club. He should be allowed to stay to facilitate the resigning of Sanchez and Ozil, who I'm convinced will both leave at the end of the season if Wenger goes too.

Let's get one thing straight: even if he had left when he should have done let alone after several years of mediocrity Wenger would not have been by any stretch of the imagination "the greatest manager we have ever had". That was, and probably always will be, Herbert Champman. He turned us from a second-rate London club who had never won a single thing into the most renowned football club in the world within 10 years. Having won three consecutive league titles with Huddersfield in the 20s, he was on his way to a similar feat with Arsenal when he tragically died of pneumonia. And, of course, he had no Champions' League to go for, so the fourth-place trophy was meaningless to him.

Very different era, very hard to compare. I would argue it is harder to win 3 titles now than in the 1930's

[rodders999]

Plus who do you think was responsible for innovating and updating the training techniques etc. of old

Wenger is widely credited for helping English football change immensely in that respect

Wenger revolutionised English football around the turn of the century, only problem with that is it's been revolutionised at least twice more since and he's still playing with the same hand.

[rjw1985]

Plus who do you think was responsible for innovating and updating the training techniques etc. of old

Wenger is widely credited for helping English football change immensely in that respect

Wenger revolutionised English football around the turn of the century, only problem with that is it's been revolutionised at least twice more since and he's still playing with the same hand.

Said nobody, ever

Seriously though who revolutionised football twice since Wenger? Be honest as I think that was just a throwaway comment without any substance to it at all

[xisstential]

Mention of the players "letting Wenger down" raises the question of why they do not then subsequently get their asses kicked. They turn up against relegation fodder, mentally unprepared as Wenger will have us know, lose, then get given a couple of days off. It's lunacy the way he manages... and as for Ozil, he only wants to stay if Wenger stays (if that's even true) because he has never had it so good. NONE of these players have. Those like Sanchez who actually want to win things, won't stay. That alone should tell you what would be winners think of Wenger.

Oh yeah the perennial loser that is Mesut Ozil (World Cup winner, La Liga winner, Copa del Rey winner, FA cup winner x2)

He isn't going to win another fucking thing under Wenger is he. That is why I find that story so hard to believe. I think he wants to know if Wenger is staying or not so he can decide whether to stay or not. Wenger stays, he goes. Unless he's satisfied with what he has already won and now realises he is at the easiest gig in the world.

[Redarmy]

Plus who do you think was responsible for innovating and updating the training techniques etc. of old

Wenger is widely credited for helping English football change immensely in that respect

Wenger revolutionised English football around the turn of the century, only problem with that is it's been revolutionised at least twice more since and he's still playing with the same hand.

Said nobody, ever

Seriously though who revolutionised football twice since Wenger? Be honest as I think that was just a throwaway comment without any substance to it at all

Think we can all agree he was ground breaking when he started albeit with a superb GG defence already in place....and won trophies with some wonderful football, a big change in culture at the club took place

No one called us boring Arsenal anymore...which i hated

BUT.....we have lost our way considerably, and need a change desperately, it has to happen, Wenger is 67 now and outdated in ideas, being surpassed by new younger tacticians.....Agreed we need to appoint the right man to follow on, but dont be afraid of change

Thanks for the memories , TIME FOR CHANGE

[rjw1985]

Mention of the players "letting Wenger down" raises the question of why they do not then subsequently get their asses kicked. They turn up against relegation fodder, mentally unprepared as Wenger will have us know, lose, then get given a couple of days off. It's lunacy the way he manages... and as for Ozil, he only wants to stay if Wenger stays (if that's even true) because he has never had it so good. NONE of these players have. Those like Sanchez who actually want to win things, won't stay. That alone should tell you what would be winners think of Wenger.

Oh yeah the perennial loser that is Mesut Ozil (World Cup winner, La Liga winner, Copa del Rey winner, FA cup winner x2)

He isn't going to win another fucking thing under Wenger is he. That is why I find that story so hard to believe. I think he wants to know if Wenger is staying or not so he can decide whether to stay or not. Wenger stays, he goes. Unless he's satisfied with what he has already won and now realises he is at the easiest gig in the world.

He's already proved recently that he can win trophies under Wenger so that's a non argument.

It's been made clear by him that he only joined because of Wenger and if he is let go then Ozil goes too, I'm 100% confident on that