Wenger Out protest thread

[markyp]

I'm an Arsenal supporter and Wenger Support - as I will be for whomever is the next manager. I would, had I voted in whatever poll that is, have been in the 16 % and will not 'leave with him when he goes'.

I have no venom for those who want him out although do not agree with their rationale. I believe should I meet herd in the pub that we'd be able to chat and share a pint while managing to have opposing views, because we're gooners. I do, whilst as mentioned carry no venom for individuals, vehemently oppose the protest culture that has overlapped into and during gametime.

Steve. I am sure I speak for the majority on here when I say that I genuinely respect Arsenal fans who hold opposing views about Wenger. If you think he is the right man to lead the Club in the next few seasons, fair enough. You are as entitled to your view as I am. I find it difficult to respect people who support Wenger just because he "is" the manager, though. Blind and unconditional loyalty to an individual lays supporters open to being held in absolute contempt, as we have seen. I also find it difficult to take seriously the sudden thirst for unity among his dwindling band of supporters, now they no longer have the numbers to supress dissent through intimidation.

If we don't get our views across inside the stadium the club pretends that the fans are with him. The team - Wenger's team - has underachieved for years, so it is hard to argue that the current toxic atmosphere will make a difference. If those of you who want him to stay want to sing 1AW during the match then that is your right. It is every bit as much our right to call for him to go during the match, when it will carry most weight.

Bob

I have said it here before that I am not supporting him just because he is the manager. I support him because I think he is a good manager and certainly the best we've had in my life time.

I certainly don't think the protests will hasten his leaving and may infact delay it. People have been chanting for him to go for a decade or so after all. I appreciate people feel they should protest and as someone who has protested over various things politically, it is a right that we should not deny. My view, however remains that such things during games have negative effects on the players on the field. I can fully understand the frustration leading to the spontaneity of the 'your not fit to wear the shirt' chants after a display like that which we witnessed last night but I can not understand pre planned protests that are aimed at someone from Arsenal (be it player/manager/kitman/groundsman) during a game. It has happened during games we were winning as well as losing.

I say again, I have no argument against protests outside the ground, to and from the grounds, on forum, in the pub, on the train/tube/walk... I don't agree with the current message trend but wouldn't ever say people shouldn't protest... I just don't, and guess I never will, GET premeditated negative chants/banners during games.

I have argued here before about tactics, reasons football and other although feel that to do so on this particular forum is to paddle up a waterfall.

I ask myself the same question regularly... will I be supporting the team and manager post-Arsene Wenger (whoever that is) at a game 15/20 years from today? and my answer is always 'yes'. (my health/physical ability to attend permitting of course) I think many here would say 'yes'
If you would answer that question in the affirmative then I'd ask a supplementary one... Same question if I'd asked it 15/20 years ago...?

the best in your life time?steve are you 20 years old? Wengers trophy haul seems impressive until you look at the time hes served the club then its pretty poor,9 trophies in 20 years against George grahams 6 trophies in 9,its less than GG who managed a European trophy and two league cups which sadly Wenger hasn't managed and back then the league cup meant something,also the invincible thing well GG went all season losing just once which people forget on our way to the 91 league title,that in itself was a no mean feat back in the day and unheard of,im not really sure where wenger being the best manager weve had stems from?is it because hes served 20 years? well Margret Thatcher served 11 as PM but doesn't go down as the greatest ever does she?

[Ed Hunter The Gooner]

I'm an Arsenal supporter and Wenger Support - as I will be for whomever is the next manager. I would, had I voted in whatever poll that is, have been in the 16 % and will not 'leave with him when he goes'.

I have no venom for those who want him out although do not agree with their rationale. I believe should I meet herd in the pub that we'd be able to chat and share a pint while managing to have opposing views, because we're gooners. I do, whilst as mentioned carry no venom for individuals, vehemently oppose the protest culture that has overlapped into and during gametime.

Steve. I am sure I speak for the majority on here when I say that I genuinely respect Arsenal fans who hold opposing views about Wenger. If you think he is the right man to lead the Club in the next few seasons, fair enough. You are as entitled to your view as I am. I find it difficult to respect people who support Wenger just because he "is" the manager, though. Blind and unconditional loyalty to an individual lays supporters open to being held in absolute contempt, as we have seen. I also find it difficult to take seriously the sudden thirst for unity among his dwindling band of supporters, now they no longer have the numbers to supress dissent through intimidation.

If we don't get our views across inside the stadium the club pretends that the fans are with him. The team - Wenger's team - has underachieved for years, so it is hard to argue that the current toxic atmosphere will make a difference. If those of you who want him to stay want to sing 1AW during the match then that is your right. It is every bit as much our right to call for him to go during the match, when it will carry most weight.

Bob

I have said it here before that I am not supporting him just because he is the manager. I support him because I think he is a good manager and certainly the best we've had in my life time.

I certainly don't think the protests will hasten his leaving and may infact delay it. People have been chanting for him to go for a decade or so after all. I appreciate people feel they should protest and as someone who has protested over various things politically, it is a right that we should not deny. My view, however remains that such things during games have negative effects on the players on the field. I can fully understand the frustration leading to the spontaneity of the 'your not fit to wear the shirt' chants after a display like that which we witnessed last night but I can not understand pre planned protests that are aimed at someone from Arsenal (be it player/manager/kitman/groundsman) during a game. It has happened during games we were winning as well as losing.

I say again, I have no argument against protests outside the ground, to and from the grounds, on forum, in the pub, on the train/tube/walk... I don't agree with the current message trend but wouldn't ever say people shouldn't protest... I just don't, and guess I never will, GET premeditated negative chants/banners during games.

I have argued here before about tactics, reasons football and other although feel that to do so on this particular forum is to paddle up a waterfall.

I ask myself the same question regularly... will I be supporting the team and manager post-Arsene Wenger (whoever that is) at a game 15/20 years from today? and my answer is always 'yes'. (my health/physical ability to attend permitting of course) I think many here would say 'yes'
If you would answer that question in the affirmative then I'd ask a supplementary one... Same question if I'd asked it 15/20 years ago...?

the best in your life time?steve are you 20 years old? Wengers trophy haul seems impressive until you look at the time hes served the club then its pretty poor,9 trophies in 20 years against George grahams 6 trophies in 9,its less than GG who managed a European trophy and two league cups which sadly Wenger hasn't managed and back then the league cup meant something,also the invincible thing well GG went all season losing just once which people forget on our way to the 91 league title,that in itself was a no mean feat back in the day and unheard of,im not really sure where wenger being the best manager weve had stems from?is it because hes served 20 years? well Margret Thatcher served 11 as PM but doesn't go down as the greatest ever does she?

Agreed markyp! This is just a perverse illusion created by the wenger cult that he is Arsenals best manager ever. As markyp said in his post GGs trophy ratio is better compared to wengers. I take it as insult to GG or Arsenals pre wenger history when AW is lifted as godlike status compared to previous managers or history of the club. Yes, AW was great until 2004 and I bet that all of us respects that but there is still lot of room to argue if it was because of wenger alone or did GG build basis for him to work on. Personally I think that the foundations were already there (our back four for example). All of those squads that wenger has build from the scratch himself has failed miserably.

[NickF]

Agreed markyp! This is just a perverse illusion created by the wenger cult that he is Arsenals best manager ever. As markyp said in his post GGs trophy ratio is better compared to wengers. I take it as insult to GG or Arsenals pre wenger history when AW is lifted as godlike status compared to previous managers or history of the club. Yes, AW was great until 2004 and I bet that all of us respects that but there is still lot of room to argue if it was because of wenger alone or did GG build basis for him to work on. Personally I think that the foundations were already there (our back four for example). All of those squads that wenger has build from the scratch himself has failed miserably.

Virtually every manager has at some time inherited great players, even GG did. This shouldn't be used to belittle the manager's achievements.

[Ed Hunter The Gooner]

Agreed markyp! This is just a perverse illusion created by the wenger cult that he is Arsenals best manager ever. As markyp said in his post GGs trophy ratio is better compared to wengers. I take it as insult to GG or Arsenals pre wenger history when AW is lifted as godlike status compared to previous managers or history of the club. Yes, AW was great until 2004 and I bet that all of us respects that but there is still lot of room to argue if it was because of wenger alone or did GG build basis for him to work on. Personally I think that the foundations were already there (our back four for example). All of those squads that wenger has build from the scratch himself has failed miserably.

Virtually every manager has at some time inherited great players, even GG did. This shouldn't be used to belittle the manager's achievements.

Yes agree and I wasn't belittling him at all. No matter what you inherit you still have to manage them and AW did that brilliantly in his early years.

[greengooner]

Agreed markyp! This is just a perverse illusion created by the wenger cult that he is Arsenals best manager ever. As markyp said in his post GGs trophy ratio is better compared to wengers. I take it as insult to GG or Arsenals pre wenger history when AW is lifted as godlike status compared to previous managers or history of the club. Yes, AW was great until 2004 and I bet that all of us respects that but there is still lot of room to argue if it was because of wenger alone or did GG build basis for him to work on. Personally I think that the foundations were already there (our back four for example). All of those squads that wenger has build from the scratch himself has failed miserably.

Virtually every manager has at some time inherited great players, even GG did. This shouldn't be used to belittle the manager's achievements.

Our next manager won't inherit many great players!

[StuartL]

No give the players loads of shit , if he loses the changing room he will be out quicker ,

To right the players are too comfortable under Wenger, they should be given stick for the sort of performance they put in last night. They have not been taught that it's an honour to play for The Arsenal that's the problem there is a massive divide now between the club and the working class fans.

I would have thought the trip to Sutton would make some of our pampered pussies realise just how lucky they are to be playing for The Arsenal

Sadly it appears not.

[xisstential]

No give the players loads of shit , if he loses the changing room he will be out quicker ,

To right the players are too comfortable under Wenger, they should be given stick for the sort of performance they put in last night. They have not been taught that it's an honour to play for The Arsenal that's the problem there is a massive divide now between the club and the working class fans.

I would have thought the trip to Sutton would make some of our pampered pussies realise just how lucky they are to be playing for The Arsenal

Sadly it appears not.

When some of our guys arrived there must have looked around and thought, I could be here.....The rest probably looked around and thought, If it wasn't for Arsene, I WOULD be here

[augie]

Agreed markyp! This is just a perverse illusion created by the wenger cult that he is Arsenals best manager ever. As markyp said in his post GGs trophy ratio is better compared to wengers. I take it as insult to GG or Arsenals pre wenger history when AW is lifted as godlike status compared to previous managers or history of the club. Yes, AW was great until 2004 and I bet that all of us respects that but there is still lot of room to argue if it was because of wenger alone or did GG build basis for him to work on. Personally I think that the foundations were already there (our back four for example). All of those squads that wenger has build from the scratch himself has failed miserably.

Virtually every manager has at some time inherited great players, even GG did. This shouldn't be used to belittle the manager's achievements.

Yes agree and I wasn't belittling him at all. No matter what you inherit you still have to manage them and AW did that brilliantly in his early years.

Maybe to a point, but the man inherited some top class leaders on the pitch who were able to organize the team tactically during the game - I would suggest that in some ways wenker is a coach and not a manager - he introduced new diets and changed the focus in training sessions to predominantly involve ballwork, and he brought in some very good players, but they are all things that coaches and modern day director's of football do, and does not a manager make. We all talk about the good win we had at citeeh a couple of years ago where the players went to wenker that week and requested that he play a more defensive system with a DM, and we all refer to that as evidence that the players were the only one's tactically able to organize a team - what that totally ignores is that way back in 98 the same thing happened, when TA6 and the defence called a team meeting and instructed the midfield to play a different way and a more responsible way.........would wenker have won the league that season without the players intervention ?

[IW8Goalmachine]

This thread is gradually turning into the Wenger thread.

Let's keep it focused on the protests and get him out of our club

[OneBardGooner]

Agreed markyp! This is just a perverse illusion created by the wenger cult that he is Arsenals best manager ever. As markyp said in his post GGs trophy ratio is better compared to wengers. I take it as insult to GG or Arsenals pre wenger history when AW is lifted as godlike status compared to previous managers or history of the club. Yes, AW was great until 2004 and I bet that all of us respects that but there is still lot of room to argue if it was because of wenger alone or did GG build basis for him to work on. Personally I think that the foundations were already there (our back four for example). All of those squads that wenger has build from the scratch himself has failed miserably.

Virtually every manager has at some time inherited great players, even GG did. This shouldn't be used to belittle the manager's achievements.

Our next manager won't inherit many great players!

Plenty of Snowflakes though.

[OneBardGooner]

This thread is gradually turning into the Wenger thread.

Let's keep it focused on the protests and get him out of our club

#FUCKOFF WENGER

[xisstential]

This thread is gradually turning into the Wenger thread.

Let's keep it focused on the protests and get him out of our club

#FUCKOFF WENGER

We have some stuff planned for this weekend. If anybody is available in London next Sunday from about 12 - 3 before the semi final, please PM me. This will be a really good time..it is a protest but not a march.

[Steve_I]

the best in your life time?steve are you 20 years old? Wengers trophy haul seems impressive until you look at the time hes served the club then its pretty poor,9 trophies in 20 years against George grahams 6 trophies in 9,its less than GG who managed a European trophy and two league cups which sadly Wenger hasn't managed and back then the league cup meant something,also the invincible thing well GG went all season losing just once which people forget on our way to the 91 league title,that in itself was a no mean feat back in the day and unheard of,im not really sure where wenger being the best manager weve had stems from?is it because hes served 20 years? well Margret Thatcher served 11 as PM but doesn't go down as the greatest ever does she?

Nope, I wish I was 20 years old but alas I'm not.

Yes, the best in my life time. Graham was good certainly, albeit a shady and not so stable ending to his time with us. Always had time for him being he was the first goal-scorer I recall seeing live. Went to a couple games before apparently although little recall of them. Saw George Score against Ipswich when my Dad took me and a mate to a game the day after my 10th Birthday. (Oct 72) 1-0 against Ipswich and he scored the only goal and, to my memory, it went miles, straight and true to the top corner.... subsequently it wasn't quite as I have it in my mind's eye but nonetheless a good goal and the first I recall seeing live. Mee, of course, was the first Manager I remember and I rarely see folk rave about him although I have fond memories of what he did an how he was instrumental in cementing my love with the team.

I have seen some excellent football under Wenger and of course I value the recent FA cup wins and Wembley experiences highly (but then I would, wouldn't I as it fits my agenda ... wink)

He without a doubt has to take credit for the invincibles and of course the premier titles he has won, as with the most FA cups for any manager and also helped us to as many as any other team, equalled currently by only one other.

I do not, never have and never will, accept the weak 'no tactics' line (I see that as pure drivel) as if that's the case, what about the 16 teams managers below us? All clueless? Because a manger doesn't do what I want, doesn't pick who I would, doesn't make him clueless - it means he has a different view than me and probably (definitely to be honest) has a lot more information available to him than I ever will have)

The Protest I do find embarrassing and ill thought out. The abuse I saw online shouted at players on the bus I have difficulty with and how people can think such things don't have a negative effect on the team is also beyond my limited intellect to comprehend.

As I said early, I will support whoever runs out for the team, and the manager, during games live and while I can certainly groan and get exasperated and hurt when we lose or some apparently professional extremely highly paid and expensively bought professional gives a ball away, runs down a blind ally, misses a sitter etc I will still cheer the team live and try to do the tiniest bit I can to help boost them. I know it's not a commonly held view around here but however bad the team is playing, or whatever the reason for any bad patch were going through, I see my roll as to support and get behind them. I will do whenever I see them whether it be this month, this year or in twenty years (If I'm physically/mentally able)

Feel fee to say I follow him blindly and cluelessly, but I will do exactly the same with our next manager, and the next and the next and the next... although I guess one of the next 'nexts' will be after I've gone so maybe not that one. My descendants of course, will hopefully continue and, to my mind, we will still be up there or thereabouts and this will be, in no small part, due to Arsene Wenger's two decades or so, as much as any other...

[MrT]

the best in your life time?steve are you 20 years old? Wengers trophy haul seems impressive until you look at the time hes served the club then its pretty poor,9 trophies in 20 years against George grahams 6 trophies in 9,its less than GG who managed a European trophy and two league cups which sadly Wenger hasn't managed and back then the league cup meant something,also the invincible thing well GG went all season losing just once which people forget on our way to the 91 league title,that in itself was a no mean feat back in the day and unheard of,im not really sure where wenger being the best manager weve had stems from?is it because hes served 20 years? well Margret Thatcher served 11 as PM but doesn't go down as the greatest ever does she?

Nope, I wish I was 20 years old but alas I'm not.

Yes, the best in my life time. Graham was good certainly, albeit a shady and not so stable ending to his time with us. Always had time for him being he was the first goal-scorer I recall seeing live. Went to a couple games before apparently although little recall of them. Saw George Score against Ipswich when my Dad took me and a mate to a game the day after my 10th Birthday. (Oct 72) 1-0 against Ipswich and he scored the only goal and, to my memory, it went miles, straight and true to the top corner.... subsequently it wasn't quite as I have it in my mind's eye but nonetheless a good goal and the first I recall seeing live. Mee, of course, was the first Manager I remember and I rarely see folk rave about him although I have fond memories of what he did an how he was instrumental in cementing my love with the team.

I have seen some excellent football under Wenger and of course I value the recent FA cup wins and Wembley experiences highly (but then I would, wouldn't I as it fits my agenda ... wink)

He without a doubt has to take credit for the invincibles and of course the premier titles he has won, as with the most FA cups for any manager and also helped us to as many as any other team, equalled currently by only one other.

I do not, never have and never will, accept the weak 'no tactics' line (I see that as pure drivel) as if that's the case, what about the 16 teams managers below us? All clueless? Because a manger doesn't do what I want, doesn't pick who I would, doesn't make him clueless - it means he has a different view than me and probably (definitely to be honest) has a lot more information available to him than I ever will have)

The Protest I do find embarrassing and ill thought out. The abuse I saw online shouted at players on the bus I have difficulty with and how people can think such things don't have a negative effect on the team is also beyond my limited intellect to comprehend.

As I said early, I will support whoever runs out for the team, and the manager, during games live and while I can certainly groan and get exasperated and hurt when we lose or some apparently professional extremely highly paid and expensively bought professional gives a ball away, runs down a blind ally, misses a sitter etc I will still cheer the team live and try to do the tiniest bit I can to help boost them. I know it's not a commonly held view around here but however bad the team is playing, or whatever the reason for any bad patch were going through, I see my roll as to support and get behind them. I will do whenever I see them whether it be this month, this year or in twenty years (If I'm physically/mentally able)

Feel fee to say I follow him blindly and cluelessly, but I will do exactly the same with our next manager, and the next and the next and the next... although I guess one of the next 'nexts' will be after I've gone so maybe not that one. My descendants of course, will hopefully continue and, to my mind, we will still be up there or thereabouts and this will be, in no small part, due to Arsene Wenger's two decades or so, as much as any other...

You would follow him into the gates of hell over some misplaced notion that you have to bury your head in the sand, don't question anything and watch a once great club be reduced to a laughing stock. You know what you're called? A sheep. Unable to think for themselves and just follows aimlessly hoping things change. The idea of a protest is embarrassing to you because it shines a light on your support for mediocrity and complicity in allowing the mess to go on for so long. The fans deserve the club they get and it's largely because of fans like you. Have you seen what fans of other clubs in Europe do when their club is not performing? I would say peaceful street protests are bloody tame in comparison.

The players and manager deserve non stop abuse at this point. These are overpaid bottlers not performing at the highest level, it's been a long time coming. Who cares if it's negative? This is the first time since I can remember when the away fans have turned on the players and that says something. We give them a pass because of the colossal buffoon leading them, but they must be held responsible too. If that means them facing a few bad words from angry fans who routinely spend a fair few bob on following their club up and down the country, then so be it.

[GoonerMuzz]

the best in your life time?steve are you 20 years old? Wengers trophy haul seems impressive until you look at the time hes served the club then its pretty poor,9 trophies in 20 years against George grahams 6 trophies in 9,its less than GG who managed a European trophy and two league cups which sadly Wenger hasn't managed and back then the league cup meant something,also the invincible thing well GG went all season losing just once which people forget on our way to the 91 league title,that in itself was a no mean feat back in the day and unheard of,im not really sure where wenger being the best manager weve had stems from?is it because hes served 20 years? well Margret Thatcher served 11 as PM but doesn't go down as the greatest ever does she?

Nope, I wish I was 20 years old but alas I'm not.

Yes, the best in my life time. Graham was good certainly, albeit a shady and not so stable ending to his time with us. Always had time for him being he was the first goal-scorer I recall seeing live. Went to a couple games before apparently although little recall of them. Saw George Score against Ipswich when my Dad took me and a mate to a game the day after my 10th Birthday. (Oct 72) 1-0 against Ipswich and he scored the only goal and, to my memory, it went miles, straight and true to the top corner.... subsequently it wasn't quite as I have it in my mind's eye but nonetheless a good goal and the first I recall seeing live. Mee, of course, was the first Manager I remember and I rarely see folk rave about him although I have fond memories of what he did an how he was instrumental in cementing my love with the team.

I have seen some excellent football under Wenger and of course I value the recent FA cup wins and Wembley experiences highly (but then I would, wouldn't I as it fits my agenda ... wink)

He without a doubt has to take credit for the invincibles and of course the premier titles he has won, as with the most FA cups for any manager and also helped us to as many as any other team, equalled currently by only one other.

I do not, never have and never will, accept the weak 'no tactics' line (I see that as pure drivel) as if that's the case, what about the 16 teams managers below us? All clueless? Because a manger doesn't do what I want, doesn't pick who I would, doesn't make him clueless - it means he has a different view than me and probably (definitely to be honest) has a lot more information available to him than I ever will have)

The Protest I do find embarrassing and ill thought out. The abuse I saw online shouted at players on the bus I have difficulty with and how people can think such things don't have a negative effect on the team is also beyond my limited intellect to comprehend.

As I said early, I will support whoever runs out for the team, and the manager, during games live and while I can certainly groan and get exasperated and hurt when we lose or some apparently professional extremely highly paid and expensively bought professional gives a ball away, runs down a blind ally, misses a sitter etc I will still cheer the team live and try to do the tiniest bit I can to help boost them. I know it's not a commonly held view around here but however bad the team is playing, or whatever the reason for any bad patch were going through, I see my roll as to support and get behind them. I will do whenever I see them whether it be this month, this year or in twenty years (If I'm physically/mentally able)

Feel fee to say I follow him blindly and cluelessly, but I will do exactly the same with our next manager, and the next and the next and the next... although I guess one of the next 'nexts' will be after I've gone so maybe not that one. My descendants of course, will hopefully continue and, to my mind, we will still be up there or thereabouts and this will be, in no small part, due to Arsene Wenger's two decades or so, as much as any other...

Many people struggle with those sentiments Steve but you are entitled to them, wrong as you are

As for Wenger being our greatest ever Manager, if you just look at the first 8-10 years yes, take the second half he'd be nothing but a middle of the road manager, 2 FA cups in 12 complete seasons is very poor for a club of our size and financial resources.

As for the tactics things, it isn't necessarily the tactics he sends them out with that people struggle with but the fact that he is unable to react to whats going on on the pitch, when things go badly he does nothing more often than not, well except berate the fourth official.

The fact is the boys have done a sterling job organising these protests even though i disagree with the target myself, why you find them embarrassing and ill thought out escapes me, are we to just accept our team continuing to languish in its own malaise going nowhere and still give them our unstinting support?

This is not a free entertainment we follow, we pay for it and therefore we have the right to expect more from our 'investment'.