A Real Greek Cypriot View On Arsenal Flag Ban (Dec 31)
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irishgooner
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:07 pm
Greek Cypriot article writer
Welcome to the club mate. As an Irish person supporting Arsenal and English football for over 25 years it has always been painful to be reminded of the oppressive symbolism of the Union Jack here in my country. Human rights breaches from the british occupying forces are also numerous (and on record) but heck we love the football so much we have put up with it and put it to one side. Nobody will take my Arsenal away from me... not even the thugish, jingoistic noises that the Jack represents.
Flags at the Grove
Im getting sick and tired of all this flag business.
We are an English club based in England which as far as I'm aware is in the UK.
So to all you idiots moaning, please keep your politics out of football. You have no right to use our club as a battle ground....take your problems to the UN. In the meantime I for one will be taking my union flag on Jan 2nd to AG. See you there!
We are an English club based in England which as far as I'm aware is in the UK.
So to all you idiots moaning, please keep your politics out of football. You have no right to use our club as a battle ground....take your problems to the UN. In the meantime I for one will be taking my union flag on Jan 2nd to AG. See you there!
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irishgooner
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:07 pm
Re: Flags at the Grove
The topic is on the flag issue. Some of us are trying to discuss the issue in an intelligent manner. Nobody's moaning but you ..you F@@king muppet. Go and buy the Sun, have a read and a *****, then go to bed like you usually do. F@@@~~~ racist arsehole.Freddie71 wrote:Im getting sick and tired of all this flag business.
We are an English club based in England which as far as I'm aware is in the UK.
So to all you idiots moaning, please keep your politics out of football. You have no right to use our club as a battle ground....take your problems to the UN. In the meantime I for one will be taking my union flag on Jan 2nd to AG. See you there!
Flag Bans
I was disgusted, upset and annoyed at the article i read earlier today. It seems that racism will never go away when things that happened over 32 years ago (some of the readers probably were not even born!) and having the audicity to pull up quotes from various sectors. I have many quotes (from the house of lords) stating that in fact Tukey to NOT INVADE but used there right as one of the "guardians" to INTERVENE. Ask yourselves this question - why stop where the Turks stopped? why not drive the Greek Cypriots out of Cyprus totally? what happened pre 1974. Still i am beginning to sound like an activist I ain't! I am just fed up with all the crap that i read around the flags situation. There was a Greek Cypriot flag hanging at Highbury for as long as I can remember and good luck to whoever hung it and to compare the Tukish Cypriot flag to that of the swastika I find quite insulting. I have many friends (and 2 business partners) who are Greek Cypriot and these issues are NEVER raised as it should be a case oF lets move forward - everybody has a story to tell - everybody is right and everyody is wrong. what you should try and remember is that when you go to the emirates your not there for political reasons, you are there as one nation of arsenal supporters not black, green, yellow or blue - on this day for 90 mins or so your a red and nothing else .
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gooner Erol
- Posts: 145
- Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:25 pm
- Location: london
Flag bans
The last comment from absgooner was spot on! we are all Arsenal fans & Turks & we do not want to bring politics into fooballthisi'm afraid has come from the Greeks only & please do not forget this.
Do not fall into their propaganda trap that they always like to spill out...most of the world is now starting to see through it....the bottom line is this in 1974 o a coup in Cyprus amongst the greeks wanted to wipe out the Turks on the Island to make Cyprus part of Greece,my own uncle was shot for being in the wrong place & being a Turk in July 1974,....Turkey had no choice but to intervene to protect the Turkish population of the Island.......most of the World agreed with the stance....Turkey's only mission was to safe guard the Turks on the Island before they were wiped out......they swept to half the Island only,they could as was said took the whole lot no problem,.....so the North part of the Island was a safe place to live for the Turks of the Island.....but as you see the Greeks could & never will except this.....yes people lost their homes on the North side as well as Turks losing theirs on the south.....but again if you listen to them they will try & say Turks had little there,but sorry that is very wrong.
I'm an Arsenal fan & none of us fans want to bring politics to football or to Ashburton......but due to the Greeks comments & exclusives on this site a lot of Turks want our side put across too....with any luck you will have the other side of the story also put on the site too....
Come on you Gunners! I hope you put this article on the front of the site on home page like the other from the Greek perspective please
Do not fall into their propaganda trap that they always like to spill out...most of the world is now starting to see through it....the bottom line is this in 1974 o a coup in Cyprus amongst the greeks wanted to wipe out the Turks on the Island to make Cyprus part of Greece,my own uncle was shot for being in the wrong place & being a Turk in July 1974,....Turkey had no choice but to intervene to protect the Turkish population of the Island.......most of the World agreed with the stance....Turkey's only mission was to safe guard the Turks on the Island before they were wiped out......they swept to half the Island only,they could as was said took the whole lot no problem,.....so the North part of the Island was a safe place to live for the Turks of the Island.....but as you see the Greeks could & never will except this.....yes people lost their homes on the North side as well as Turks losing theirs on the south.....but again if you listen to them they will try & say Turks had little there,but sorry that is very wrong.
I'm an Arsenal fan & none of us fans want to bring politics to football or to Ashburton......but due to the Greeks comments & exclusives on this site a lot of Turks want our side put across too....with any luck you will have the other side of the story also put on the site too....
Come on you Gunners! I hope you put this article on the front of the site on home page like the other from the Greek perspective please
The flag of Cyprus is not a Greek Cypriot flag but a flag for Cypriots of all ethnicities. The reason why Turks alone call it Greek Cypriot is that they want to try and push for racially segregated island - many do not even know that there are other smaller Cypriot communities that have been on the island for longer than the Turks. Infact, its so unsafe for Turkish Cypriots in to be amongst other Cypriots in Cyprus, that thousands of them come to the south everyday to work and have applied for Republic of Cyprus passports.
I find it ridiculous to call my views racist when many Turkish Cypriots are trying to promote a state born out of racial cleansing. Do you not think it is hyporcritical to call me racist when you want to remove people from their homes and destroy their heritage (such as places of worship) subject to their ethnicity???
If you bothered to read Turkey's 'Treaty of Guarantee' in Cyprus, its states they could temporarily intervene in Cyprus to restore order, not invade - ethnically cleanse - rape - pillage - and occupy a country 32 years on. Even their own leader at the time stated that Turkey would have invaded sooner or later no matter what the situation, as it was primarly a military strategic move to gain a base on an island.
If you also didnt fall for typical Turkish propaganda and did some credible research, youd find that the military junta who wanted to join with Greece had no Greek Cypriot support at all. Infact, the military junta was deposed a whole month before Turkey's second invasion to steal the north of the island. Are you asking me to be grateful that Turkey only ethnically cleansed the northern part of the island and not the rest????
...and if the whole world agreed with Turkey's invasion, where is their support??
I would also like to add that UN and ECHR judgements are a lot more respectable than Ulster representative Lord Maginnis from the House of Lords - who one of the Turkish Cypriots above was refering too.
If the invasion and occupation of Cyprus was right...why has Turkey been repeatedly condemend for it? - why is this subject an obstacle for them to get into the EU?
If the occupation of Cyprus is seen as illegal through international law, is it right to have a symbol which represents it at the ground? Where do we stop??? Do we let BNP (who is a legit political party unfortunatly) fly their flags?? Should the Swastika be flown?? Why is it ok not to let the BNP, NF or Swastika flags fly but we can let the 'TRNC' fly because a few Turkish Cypriots are too stubborn to admit its represents racism. Do you need more proof that the north of Cyprus was ethnically cleansed or had countless ECHR condemnations??
...and if you dont beleive that this person was the flying the 'TRNC' flag to make a political point - check this web link http://www.embargoed.org/external_news_events.php?id=82.
Its from a politically motivated and extremely contradictive Turkish political group (dont be fooled by the term 'Human Rights Group') which states that the person with the flag is a member of. This group wants to see the north gain recognition as an independent country and uses lies to gain sympathy.
I dont want to bring politics into football either but often wonder if someone should fly the National Front or BNP flag at the ground and this person said it represented their ideologies, would their still be the same reaction as we have seen towards Greek Cypriots?? Would non Greek or Turkish members of this site think it is ok to flay such flags??
I find it ridiculous to call my views racist when many Turkish Cypriots are trying to promote a state born out of racial cleansing. Do you not think it is hyporcritical to call me racist when you want to remove people from their homes and destroy their heritage (such as places of worship) subject to their ethnicity???
If you bothered to read Turkey's 'Treaty of Guarantee' in Cyprus, its states they could temporarily intervene in Cyprus to restore order, not invade - ethnically cleanse - rape - pillage - and occupy a country 32 years on. Even their own leader at the time stated that Turkey would have invaded sooner or later no matter what the situation, as it was primarly a military strategic move to gain a base on an island.
If you also didnt fall for typical Turkish propaganda and did some credible research, youd find that the military junta who wanted to join with Greece had no Greek Cypriot support at all. Infact, the military junta was deposed a whole month before Turkey's second invasion to steal the north of the island. Are you asking me to be grateful that Turkey only ethnically cleansed the northern part of the island and not the rest????
...and if the whole world agreed with Turkey's invasion, where is their support??
I would also like to add that UN and ECHR judgements are a lot more respectable than Ulster representative Lord Maginnis from the House of Lords - who one of the Turkish Cypriots above was refering too.
If the invasion and occupation of Cyprus was right...why has Turkey been repeatedly condemend for it? - why is this subject an obstacle for them to get into the EU?
If the occupation of Cyprus is seen as illegal through international law, is it right to have a symbol which represents it at the ground? Where do we stop??? Do we let BNP (who is a legit political party unfortunatly) fly their flags?? Should the Swastika be flown?? Why is it ok not to let the BNP, NF or Swastika flags fly but we can let the 'TRNC' fly because a few Turkish Cypriots are too stubborn to admit its represents racism. Do you need more proof that the north of Cyprus was ethnically cleansed or had countless ECHR condemnations??
...and if you dont beleive that this person was the flying the 'TRNC' flag to make a political point - check this web link http://www.embargoed.org/external_news_events.php?id=82.
Its from a politically motivated and extremely contradictive Turkish political group (dont be fooled by the term 'Human Rights Group') which states that the person with the flag is a member of. This group wants to see the north gain recognition as an independent country and uses lies to gain sympathy.
I dont want to bring politics into football either but often wonder if someone should fly the National Front or BNP flag at the ground and this person said it represented their ideologies, would their still be the same reaction as we have seen towards Greek Cypriots?? Would non Greek or Turkish members of this site think it is ok to flay such flags??
gooner erol says we must not bring politics into football and then goes on sh/ting and fart/ng the biggest political bullsh/t i've ever heard.
I will only talk football :
gooner erol what "turkish cypriot" football team do you support??
when was the last time they played in any Europian competition??
Do you visit the Occupied part of Cyprus to watch your team???
why doesn't any plane fly direct to the occupied part of cyprus ???
I will only talk football :
gooner erol what "turkish cypriot" football team do you support??
when was the last time they played in any Europian competition??
Do you visit the Occupied part of Cyprus to watch your team???
why doesn't any plane fly direct to the occupied part of cyprus ???
Last edited by kypros on Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Now let me talk religion and not politics
Many of you are now witnessing that some Muslims are extremist and are hell bend in creating Muslim states all over the world by force .I believe you were far too ignorant back in 1974 to realise what was happening. Turks had no historical or moral right to ethnically cleanse a big part of Cyprus and bring over thousands of Muslim Turks from Turkey to replace the Christians. As for anyone using a flag to show off those action should be prosecuted along with any sympathisers IMHO.
The English should be made aware that given half a chance this type of people would take over parts of London and set up their own religion and laws …or am I too late?
Many of you are now witnessing that some Muslims are extremist and are hell bend in creating Muslim states all over the world by force .I believe you were far too ignorant back in 1974 to realise what was happening. Turks had no historical or moral right to ethnically cleanse a big part of Cyprus and bring over thousands of Muslim Turks from Turkey to replace the Christians. As for anyone using a flag to show off those action should be prosecuted along with any sympathisers IMHO.
The English should be made aware that given half a chance this type of people would take over parts of London and set up their own religion and laws …or am I too late?
Re: Flags at the Grove
"Some of us are trying to discuss the issue in an intelligent manner." (f###ing muppet?. have a *****? go to bed racist arsehole.) Very intelligent!!!!. It's often been said that those of us who lack intelligence have to resort to swearing. Thank you for the confirmation.irishgooner wrote:The topic is on the flag issue. Some of us are trying to discuss the issue in an intelligent manner. Nobody's moaning but you ..you F@@king muppet. Go and buy the Sun, have a read and a *****, then go to bed like you usually do. F@@@~~~ racist arsehole.Freddie71 wrote:Im getting sick and tired of all this flag business.
We are an English club based in England which as far as I'm aware is in the UK.
So to all you idiots moaning, please keep your politics out of football. You have no right to use our club as a battle ground....take your problems to the UN. In the meantime I for one will be taking my union flag on Jan 2nd to AG. See you there!
Last edited by goonermc on Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reply to Kypros
It breaks my heart to read such things considering we have just moved into 2007. Whatever way you read it, this article is racist. Kypros has confused his own racism for what is really happening at Emirates. He is using the issue to put forward his own hatred.
Hitler killed over 6 million Jews because people voted him in to power. People with attitudes and beliefs like this person are very dangerous. They spread fear by first referring to all Turks as Muslims and then linking that to the current fear and hatred of muslims.
I think Kypros needs to learn about the lessons that history has taught us and to take the hate out of his heart and stop using an issue at Emirates to spread his own dangerous racism
The UK is a multicultural society and thank God it protects all, despite religion or ethnicity. I think that it is a shame when we can't put politics aside and support the team. KICK RACISM OUT OF FOOTBALL SUPPORTERS!
Hitler killed over 6 million Jews because people voted him in to power. People with attitudes and beliefs like this person are very dangerous. They spread fear by first referring to all Turks as Muslims and then linking that to the current fear and hatred of muslims.
I think Kypros needs to learn about the lessons that history has taught us and to take the hate out of his heart and stop using an issue at Emirates to spread his own dangerous racism
The UK is a multicultural society and thank God it protects all, despite religion or ethnicity. I think that it is a shame when we can't put politics aside and support the team. KICK RACISM OUT OF FOOTBALL SUPPORTERS!
I am absolutely amazed at all this bigotry.
Why is there all this hate in the world?
Yes the Greek Cypriots wronged the Turks. That is fact!
And yes the Turks wronged the Greeks. THat is Fact!
Why cannot you ALL forgive and start again?
All countries have and I would say especially the UK have committed atrocities but there comes a time when you have to sit down and talk.
I was and still am one VERY VERY angry Gooner over this issue. Why should ANYONE whether black or white or Muslim or Christian have ANY right to antagonise or threaten another person at my football club.
I was one of those who wrote to the club to question the flag ban. THe reply I got from Keith Edelman confirmed that the reason the temporary ban was imposed was in order to and I quote from the reply:
"There has been a situation at Emirates Stadium where 2 sets of fans have been upset about the flying of certain flags. This has reached a critical situation in terms of safety with groups of fans receiving physical threats. We have spoken to both Groups but could not resolve the situation. In our desire to provide a safe environment for all fans we therefore decided to ban all national flags."
THe critical part of this is the threats of violence. I read on other sites that death threats had been issued. Come on!! This is a football club! Stop it now before it gets completely out of hand. And if you can't you have no right to be an Arsenal supporter.
My reply to the club? Well I said that if it is true that threats of violence had been issued then it ceases to be a club matter and becomes a Police matter.
Oh, and I for one will be supporting the redaction request in asking all supporters to bring national flags to the stadium tomorrow night in an attempt to get this ridiculous ban overturned. They ask all fans to wave their national flag when the teams enter the field tomorrow night.
Why is there all this hate in the world?
Yes the Greek Cypriots wronged the Turks. That is fact!
And yes the Turks wronged the Greeks. THat is Fact!
Why cannot you ALL forgive and start again?
All countries have and I would say especially the UK have committed atrocities but there comes a time when you have to sit down and talk.
I was and still am one VERY VERY angry Gooner over this issue. Why should ANYONE whether black or white or Muslim or Christian have ANY right to antagonise or threaten another person at my football club.
I was one of those who wrote to the club to question the flag ban. THe reply I got from Keith Edelman confirmed that the reason the temporary ban was imposed was in order to and I quote from the reply:
"There has been a situation at Emirates Stadium where 2 sets of fans have been upset about the flying of certain flags. This has reached a critical situation in terms of safety with groups of fans receiving physical threats. We have spoken to both Groups but could not resolve the situation. In our desire to provide a safe environment for all fans we therefore decided to ban all national flags."
THe critical part of this is the threats of violence. I read on other sites that death threats had been issued. Come on!! This is a football club! Stop it now before it gets completely out of hand. And if you can't you have no right to be an Arsenal supporter.
My reply to the club? Well I said that if it is true that threats of violence had been issued then it ceases to be a club matter and becomes a Police matter.
Oh, and I for one will be supporting the redaction request in asking all supporters to bring national flags to the stadium tomorrow night in an attempt to get this ridiculous ban overturned. They ask all fans to wave their national flag when the teams enter the field tomorrow night.
Let me ask a question once again which no one has answered...
If someone was waving a South African flag (of the aparthaid government) during South Africa's racial aparthaid...would you think it was wrong of our Black supporters to be upset?
What if someone was waving a Union Jack flag with BNP written on it or a St George's cross flag with 'NF' written in it. Would that be ok?
If someone was OPENLY promoting the continual opression of your ethnicity and making it uncomfertable for you to watch a football match...would you not want to retaliate??
I must admit I think Kypros took the argument a step too far bringing religion into this...but in the northern part of Cyprus, Turks have descecrated most of the churches and stolen historically important artifacts from them...It is that flag that promotes the thievery and abuse of particular religious buildings.
Mickess, the flag in question is not a national flag...that is why I think Arsenal have gone over the top in banning all national flags.
Absgooner, I would love to forgive and forget and take back what rightfully belongs to me by law...but these people such as the flag waver of the 'TRNC' wants to continue the opression of my family and the rest of my people in their own country.
If someone was waving a Swastika at the club, would you expect the clubs Jewish support too be comfertable in watching Arsenal home matches???
If someone was waving a South African flag (of the aparthaid government) during South Africa's racial aparthaid...would you think it was wrong of our Black supporters to be upset?
What if someone was waving a Union Jack flag with BNP written on it or a St George's cross flag with 'NF' written in it. Would that be ok?
If someone was OPENLY promoting the continual opression of your ethnicity and making it uncomfertable for you to watch a football match...would you not want to retaliate??
I must admit I think Kypros took the argument a step too far bringing religion into this...but in the northern part of Cyprus, Turks have descecrated most of the churches and stolen historically important artifacts from them...It is that flag that promotes the thievery and abuse of particular religious buildings.
Mickess, the flag in question is not a national flag...that is why I think Arsenal have gone over the top in banning all national flags.
Absgooner, I would love to forgive and forget and take back what rightfully belongs to me by law...but these people such as the flag waver of the 'TRNC' wants to continue the opression of my family and the rest of my people in their own country.
If someone was waving a Swastika at the club, would you expect the clubs Jewish support too be comfertable in watching Arsenal home matches???
Although we are there to support the team should we turn a blind eye if we see something that is wrong?
I have to agree with N13Gooner.
If someone where to take a flag of the BNP or NF to a game then it would rightly be taken down and given the situation in Cyprus being "unresolved" shall we say, I think it is correct that the flag in question be banned - in light of what it represents. I undestand that Turkish Cypriots need to be represented and express themselves as well but bearing in mind that the flag is not recognised as a National flag surely these fans are aware that it is a contentious act.
I think that the club have been extremely heavy handed and they know it is something that in the long run they will have to remedy, just looking at the marketing around the stadium proves that - plus I am sure the players must like to see their nations flags being waved. I understand that the ban is temporary so hopefully a more suitable solution will be reached soon. I must admit though I truely can understan the actions that the club have taken, I am sure that they are not particularly happy at being dragged into this situation, and that is why I am not so sure the propsed actions for tonight are correct.
If it were actions regarding the Ashley Cole, Outrage issue we had recently I would agree, but I think the club are probably just as unhappy as the fans.
I have to agree with N13Gooner.
If someone where to take a flag of the BNP or NF to a game then it would rightly be taken down and given the situation in Cyprus being "unresolved" shall we say, I think it is correct that the flag in question be banned - in light of what it represents. I undestand that Turkish Cypriots need to be represented and express themselves as well but bearing in mind that the flag is not recognised as a National flag surely these fans are aware that it is a contentious act.
I think that the club have been extremely heavy handed and they know it is something that in the long run they will have to remedy, just looking at the marketing around the stadium proves that - plus I am sure the players must like to see their nations flags being waved. I understand that the ban is temporary so hopefully a more suitable solution will be reached soon. I must admit though I truely can understan the actions that the club have taken, I am sure that they are not particularly happy at being dragged into this situation, and that is why I am not so sure the propsed actions for tonight are correct.
If it were actions regarding the Ashley Cole, Outrage issue we had recently I would agree, but I think the club are probably just as unhappy as the fans.
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gooner Erol
- Posts: 145
- Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:25 pm
- Location: london
Reply n13 gooner
Turks desicrated churches?........mate you need to look on the other side also because the Greeks did this also so don't go into who started it first.....from now just stick to football please because your stinking politics
are from just blue tinted specs!
are from just blue tinted specs!
The moment Turkish nationalist groups such as "Embargoed" stop their members doing their political dirty work for them ( http://www.embargoed.org/external_news ... hp?id=82
) at the football club which I have not taken politics too in the past, is the moment when I will carry on talking football. Im not going to be quiet while people wave flags promoting a racist opression in my country by a foreign one, in my face, to promote their racist and contradictive ideologies.
If you dont believe me, check the link above which states that this flag waver is even a member of that group...and once again, I stress that neutral parties dont believe their hype of 'Human Rights Group' which is a joke.
Erol, as for your claims of "Greeks started it first blah blah blah"...listen, im not taking my information from old wives tales or propaganda used to legitimise the illegal...im getting my information from reputable sources such as as the European Courts of Human Rights.
You can make all the unfounded counter arguments you want to make yourself feel better but you have no credible proof. I will admit the Greek Cypriots were not innocent in the past but nor were the Turkish Cypriots in that time either (no matter how much you want to play the victim in Turkey's many conflicts)...Although, Turkey has been commiting a far greater crime on the island since the summer of 1974.
I would love to stick to the football but Turkish political groups have been doing their dirty work at the football club I have supported since a boy
(even when Arsenal played Apeol in Cyprus who is my team there, I wanted Arsenal to win!!) in order promote my opression, and will not turn a blind eye to it.
If you dont believe me, check the link above which states that this flag waver is even a member of that group...and once again, I stress that neutral parties dont believe their hype of 'Human Rights Group' which is a joke.
Erol, as for your claims of "Greeks started it first blah blah blah"...listen, im not taking my information from old wives tales or propaganda used to legitimise the illegal...im getting my information from reputable sources such as as the European Courts of Human Rights.
You can make all the unfounded counter arguments you want to make yourself feel better but you have no credible proof. I will admit the Greek Cypriots were not innocent in the past but nor were the Turkish Cypriots in that time either (no matter how much you want to play the victim in Turkey's many conflicts)...Although, Turkey has been commiting a far greater crime on the island since the summer of 1974.
I would love to stick to the football but Turkish political groups have been doing their dirty work at the football club I have supported since a boy
(even when Arsenal played Apeol in Cyprus who is my team there, I wanted Arsenal to win!!) in order promote my opression, and will not turn a blind eye to it.
