Bournemouth home thread

[Retro Gunner]

My usual stance is in line with DB's, that he'll always manage to do enough to satisfy the successfully dumbed down expectations of the majority of fans and the media. This is a point that doesn't get mentioned enough, how the Club (mainly through the deity that is Wenger), have managed to slowly, but very surely, lower the bar and convince people that we are punching our weight. Detest them all as we do, if you stand back and look objectively, it's been an accomplishment of the utmost political skill. The majority of our fans actually believe that we are not able to compete at the top level, even in the face of contradictory evidence at home and throughout Europe, that clubs with far less resource make a better fist of it. The deceit has been brilliantly managed over time.....it's heartbreaking when TV airs games of ours between 2002 and 2004 and it throws into stark relief how we've declined in the intervening years, but it's been gradual enough to anaesthetise most fans and the media.

So....I'd usually agree with DB, because as he says, Wenger's Faustian pact has always thrown something up for him and it's not always as straightforward as a couple of relegation fodder teams in sequence. We thought he was on the rack last season and what does he do...not only beat City in the semi, but then well beats Chelsea in the Final !! None of us saw that coming.

However, there may, just may, be a difference this season and that is the attitude in the dressing room. I've long said that he lost the players years ago, but not in the conventional sense of losing the dressing room. They gave up believing in his methods and his ability, but they didn't try to scupper him, because they still loved their dear old uncle for their highly paid, low expectation, non confrontational comfort zone. I'm hoping against hope, that things might have changed and there is some evidence, particularly after the Liverpool game, that it might have. If there is genuine toxicity building in that dressing room, then Wenger won't have a clue how to deal with it and I expect Sanchez to fuel it and stoke it over the coming months. When you see Ramsey shouting at the bench at Liverpool and his Dad hauling him off at half time, then something's up. If the players really turn, then the game will likely be up for Il Duce. I do agree with Xisstential, that the structural and tactical problems in the team are now so out of control and beyond Wenger's ability to correct, that we could see a disaster season like no other. All that said, I do live more in hope than expectation.

Fuck it....I agree with DB10 !!

[Jumpers For Goalposts]

Totally agree. I would have quoted your post but those long multi quote posts are a nightmare.

What will piss all of us off massively is if Sanchez does have a bad season he (Sanchez) will be scapegoated BUT the blame lies firmly with Wenger. He (Wenger) knew the situation but left it until the very last minute. Stupid old git!!

[xisstential]

We're all saying pretty much the same thing - on our day we could beat anybody (FA Cup Final) but we could also implode (too many to list). Which Arsenal we'll see more of this season remains to be seen. The biggest unknown this season is how Sanchez will react to being shafted. If he downs tools or coasts through the season, we are 50% of what we were last season. And his influence in the dressing room could have a massive, negative effect.

I just wonder how bad it would have to get before the home crowd turned on Wenger, rather than just tutting and leaving early??

Sanchez is in an awkward situation.....I have no doubt City will be coming back in January with a reduced bid and a "you better take it otherwise well get him for free in 5 months" attitude. How will Sanchez play is the question... it looks like Chile are not even going to be in the WC so he doesn't have to prove anything to get into the squad (does he anyway??), and does he still have to prove himself to Pep???

As far as selling him goes, if Wenger doesn't succeed in getting Fifa to do away with the January window, he will be told to get money for him in January. We won't need Sanchez in the title race because we will already be out of it so why not sell him?? The thing is the situation might be so volatile at the club by then, selling Sanchez might just light the touch paper.

The one saving grace for Wenger if he does sell him to City it won't be seen as to a "rival." WBA, Everton, Southampton.... those are our rivals these days.

[BFG4]

I think the template for playing against us, is quite obvious after 3 games. Put everyone behind the ball, and have pace in midfield to break against us. We have conceded 8 goals in three games, so they can definitely get at our defence. Also, the teams confidence must be on the floor, so any sort of bad start, and it will become a long afternoon, The chances of us rolling any team over comfortably at the moment, is slim.

[DB10GOONER]

My usual stance is in line with DB's, that he'll always manage to do enough to satisfy the successfully dumbed down expectations of the majority of fans and the media. This is a point that doesn't get mentioned enough, how the Club (mainly through the deity that is Wenger), have managed to slowly, but very surely, lower the bar and convince people that we are punching our weight. Detest them all as we do, if you stand back and look objectively, it's been an accomplishment of the utmost political skill. The majority of our fans actually believe that we are not able to compete at the top level, even in the face of contradictory evidence at home and throughout Europe, that clubs with far less resource make a better fist of it. The deceit has been brilliantly managed over time.....it's heartbreaking when TV airs games of ours between 2002 and 2004 and it throws into stark relief how we've declined in the intervening years, but it's been gradual enough to anaesthetise most fans and the media.

So....I'd usually agree with DB, because as he says, Wenger's Faustian pact has always thrown something up for him and it's not always as straightforward as a couple of relegation fodder teams in sequence. We thought he was on the rack last season and what does he do...not only beat City in the semi, but then well beats Chelsea in the Final !! None of us saw that coming.

However, there may, just may, be a difference this season and that is the attitude in the dressing room. I've long said that he lost the players years ago, but not in the conventional sense of losing the dressing room. They gave up believing in his methods and his ability, but they didn't try to scupper him, because they still loved their dear old uncle for their highly paid, low expectation, non confrontational comfort zone. I'm hoping against hope, that things might have changed and there is some evidence, particularly after the Liverpool game, that it might have. If there is genuine toxicity building in that dressing room, then Wenger won't have a clue how to deal with it and I expect Sanchez to fuel it and stoke it over the coming months. When you see Ramsey shouting at the bench at Liverpool and his Dad hauling him off at half time, then something's up. If the players really turn, then the game will likely be up for Il Duce. I do agree with Xisstential, that the structural and tactical problems in the team are now so out of control and beyond Wenger's ability to correct, that we could see a disaster season like no other. All that said, I do live more in hope than expectation.

Fuck it....I agree with DB10 !!

I had no idea you were that stupid!

RE the bit above in red, I agree with most of that Retro, but I'd go further and say personally I don't think he has lost the dressing room at all. This article I find more believable than any rumours of dressing room bust ups tbh;

http://metro.co.uk/2017/08/29/arsene-we ... l-6887578/

According to that story after the Mouser loss it was quiet, subdued and that Cech had a "few words" to say. Hardly a dressing room in uproar huh? And why would it be? These are overpaid underworked sheltered fuckers that know fuck well most of them would never get near that money or comfort zone at another top club. I think only Sanchez might have an attitude in the dressing room this season and maybe not even him as he knows he can probably wrangle getting sold in January or, at the latest, just walk away in May.

[xisstential]

Totally agree. I would have quoted your post but those long multi quote posts are a nightmare.

What will piss all of us off massively is if Sanchez does have a bad season he (Sanchez) will be scapegoated BUT the blame lies firmly with Wenger. He (Wenger) knew the situation but left it until the very last minute. Stupid old git!!

Remember what we were discussing te other day..... The only club in the world where the manager loses the dressing room and the dressing room gets fired

[Retro Gunner]

My usual stance is in line with DB's, that he'll always manage to do enough to satisfy the successfully dumbed down expectations of the majority of fans and the media. This is a point that doesn't get mentioned enough, how the Club (mainly through the deity that is Wenger), have managed to slowly, but very surely, lower the bar and convince people that we are punching our weight. Detest them all as we do, if you stand back and look objectively, it's been an accomplishment of the utmost political skill. The majority of our fans actually believe that we are not able to compete at the top level, even in the face of contradictory evidence at home and throughout Europe, that clubs with far less resource make a better fist of it. The deceit has been brilliantly managed over time.....it's heartbreaking when TV airs games of ours between 2002 and 2004 and it throws into stark relief how we've declined in the intervening years, but it's been gradual enough to anaesthetise most fans and the media.

So....I'd usually agree with DB, because as he says, Wenger's Faustian pact has always thrown something up for him and it's not always as straightforward as a couple of relegation fodder teams in sequence. We thought he was on the rack last season and what does he do...not only beat City in the semi, but then well beats Chelsea in the Final !! None of us saw that coming.

However, there may, just may, be a difference this season and that is the attitude in the dressing room. I've long said that he lost the players years ago, but not in the conventional sense of losing the dressing room. They gave up believing in his methods and his ability, but they didn't try to scupper him, because they still loved their dear old uncle for their highly paid, low expectation, non confrontational comfort zone. I'm hoping against hope, that things might have changed and there is some evidence, particularly after the Liverpool game, that it might have. If there is genuine toxicity building in that dressing room, then Wenger won't have a clue how to deal with it and I expect Sanchez to fuel it and stoke it over the coming months. When you see Ramsey shouting at the bench at Liverpool and his Dad hauling him off at half time, then something's up. If the players really turn, then the game will likely be up for Il Duce. I do agree with Xisstential, that the structural and tactical problems in the team are now so out of control and beyond Wenger's ability to correct, that we could see a disaster season like no other. All that said, I do live more in hope than expectation.

Fuck it....I agree with DB10 !!

I had no idea you were that stupid!

RE the bit above in red, I agree with most of that Retro, but I'd go further and say personally I don't think he has lost the dressing room at all. This article I find more believable than any rumours of dressing room bust ups tbh;

http://metro.co.uk/2017/08/29/arsene-we ... l-6887578/

According to that story after the Mouser loss it was quiet, subdued and that Cech had a "few words" to say. Hardly a dressing room in uproar huh? And why would it be? These are overpaid underworked sheltered fuckers that know fuck well most of them would never get near that money or comfort zone at another top club. I think only Sanchez might have an attitude in the dressing room this season and maybe not even him as he knows he can probably wrangle getting sold in January or, at the latest, just walk away in May.

Yes, it's a tangled web for sure. As I said, I'm living more in hope than expectation. There is an important aspect to support your view and that is the only players that would likely rebel, would be those that genuinely were top quality and felt that they, indeed, could command the same, or even better terms elsewhere. Other than Sanchez (Ozil is a complete enigma), no one falls into that category. The days of Cesc, Nasri, RVP etc leaving for reasons of ambition / money, have long passed.

We may or may not be at a turning point, it's becoming difficult to assess. The next couple of months will tell us a lot.

[xisstential]

Yes, it's a tangled web for sure. As I said, I'm living more in hope than expectation. There is an important aspect to support your view and that is the only players that would likely rebel, would be those that genuinely were top quality and felt that they, indeed, could command the same, or even better terms elsewhere. Other than Sanchez (Ozil is a complete enigma), no one falls into that category. The days of Cesc, Nasri, RVP etc leaving for reasons of ambition / money, have long passed.

We may or may not be at a turning point, it's becoming difficult to assess. The next couple of months will tell us a lot.

That is why, like it or not, you have to admire what The Ox did. He saw an opportunity, a risk even, to go somewhere and better himself and he took it. Compare that to Giroud who "decided to stay & fight for his place". No he didn't, he stayed where it was comfortable...good money, low expectations, living in London....

And is Ozil so much of an enigma?? His career has stagnated under Wenger, gone backward actually, but nobody came in for him.. Had somebody decent, he might have also left. He would do well, for the sake of his career, to leave. Nobody improves at the Emirates.

Getting back to Giroud, that was more wishy, washyness from Wenger. Earmark who you want out and get shot of them. Not at AFC apparently...we make vague mentions of it then let the player decide if he wants to go, where he wants to go and how much he wants to earn. And if their demands aren't met, Oh ok, you can stay.

What a mess we're... this is what happens when ONE man is in charge of EVERYTHING. You want to say to Wenger, stick to what you're good at... but what is that exactly???

[Retro Gunner]

Yes, it's a tangled web for sure. As I said, I'm living more in hope than expectation. There is an important aspect to support your view and that is the only players that would likely rebel, would be those that genuinely were top quality and felt that they, indeed, could command the same, or even better terms elsewhere. Other than Sanchez (Ozil is a complete enigma), no one falls into that category. The days of Cesc, Nasri, RVP etc leaving for reasons of ambition / money, have long passed.

We may or may not be at a turning point, it's becoming difficult to assess. The next couple of months will tell us a lot.

That is why, like it or not, you have to admire what The Ox did. He saw an opportunity, a risk even, to go somewhere and better himself and he took it. Compare that to Giroud who "decided to stay & fight for his place". No he didn't, he stayed where it was comfortable...good money, low expectations, living in London....

And is Ozil so much of an enigma?? His career has stagnated under Wenger, gone backward actually, but nobody came in for him.. Had somebody decent, he might have also left. He would do well, for the sake of his career, to leave. Nobody improves at the Emirates.

Getting back to Giroud, that was more wishy, washyness from Wenger. Earmark who you want out and get shot of them. Not at AFC apparently...we make vague mentions of it then let the player decide if he wants to go, where he wants to go and how much he wants to earn. And if their demands aren't met, Oh ok, you can stay.

What a mess we're... this is what happens when ONE man is in charge of EVERYTHING. You want to say to Wenger, stick to what you're good at... but what is that exactly???

I agree with all of that, but just to clarify my description of Ozil as an enigma. I was talking about truly top quality players at the Club and for me, that's why he's an enigma. He has top quality technical ability and vision and can back that up by boasting a very successful playing career. However, there's something missing and it's become more apparent than ever since he joined The Arsenal. He's the very definition of a luxury player and with the right players around him, has the ability to be devastating. At our Club, the last thing he has around him is the "right" players.

It was, indeed, noticeable that no other clubs were sniffing around him during the window and I suspect that's a lot to do with him and his agent, as well as his patchy (at best) form. It's only my opinion, but I suspect that he's perfectly happy to free wheel through his final year and then pick up a big signing on fee and that lack of character and ambition, is a crucial part of what is "missing" in the overall package.

[General]

It's not just about rebelling, there are also players visibly not putting in the required effort or application with impunity. Their CL participation bonuses have been taken away and most of them don't care because they are on good money anyway. In any case, forget about the politics because this squad is cack and by far one of the worse I've seen. It's imbalanced from top to bottom. We are not just shipping goals for fun, we are not creating any and there is no hiding from that midfield. It's dire. We are going to end up 5-7th 20-25points off champions and likely nothing will happen because the fucking coont has successfully dumbed down expectations.

[Gunner Rob]

It's not just about rebelling, there are also players visibly not putting in the required effort or application with impunity. Their CL participation bonuses have been taken away and most of them don't care because they are on good money anyway. In any case, forget about the politics because this squad is cack and by far one of the worse I've seen. It's imbalanced from top to bottom. We are not just shipping goals for fun, we are not creating any and there is no hiding from that midfield. It's dire. We are going to end up 5-7th 20-25points off champions and likely nothing will happen because the fucking coont has successfully dumbed down expectations.

you think this bunch of no hopers might finish 5th!

you deluded optimist!

[GoonerMuzz]

It is, as they say, far too early to tell what is going to happen

I'm too old a bunny to get all excited over Wenger having possibly his worst season ever because he always either does just enough or spins the defeats, poor performances and lack of organisation as someone elses fault. As said he is the ultimate politico and truly could sell sand to arabs and ice to eskimos.

This goes one of two ways: We destroy Bournemouth and all is wonderful once again or we lose and the PR teams go into overdrive about tiredness due to internationals, fan apathy being a problem, Sanchez being disruptive in the dressing room or something similar, whichever the PR gurus think suits the prevailing wind.

I dont think even a 3rd loss in succession even against 'lowly' Bouremouth will be enough to turn a significant proportion of the fans yet, there are still far too many waiting and expecting the next big turnaround, and as yet I have not seen enough evidence to say this time is going to be any different. Even if we then lost to Chelsea i can already predict the reactions and excuses. It will need to be a sustained period of woeful performances and losses before any general ill feeling begins to emerge among the faithful and he IS a lucky fucker so you'll have to excuse me if i am incredibly sceptical about how things are going to go.

Sanchez is the enigma in this and could be his inadvertent saviour, although he will feel he is guaranteed a move he might feel that performing poorly is not the way to go, afterall if he has a great season then the doors to other clubs will open especially as there will be no fee meaning other clubs can come in with high wage bids without worrying about paying a huge transfer price.

I still can't feel anything but a win will be the outcome here, i hope to god i'm miles off the mark but even a loss will not be enough to do much more than discomfort the old fool until the excuses are published and the media luvvies are given their prawn sandwich bribes

[OneBardGooner]

Come on the Cherries!! Sad isn't it I want the manager to lose BIG Time in anything and everything, and so by default the team.


#fuckoffwengercuntsloptwat

[Gunner Rob]

lose this and then to Chelsea we will be in the relegation area, and Wenger will be facing the biggest crisis of his managerial career.

can only hope, but I have a feeling that we will be seeing Giroud's cheeky grin as he scores a 95th minute winner to get the title charge back on

[Non flying Dutchman]

Stuck a tenner on at 750/1 with BetVictor for us to get relegated, (I don't think we will, but it might look quite dodgy and I'll get a chance to hedge out, Chelsea were bottom half for a bit in Maureen's last season, and they had a much better squad, albeit they had stopped playing for him)

1-1 They will score first

This whole thing needs to crash an burn before it gets better

Wenger Out