OZIL - Merged Thread

[augie]

Ozil tweeted yesterday that he has one more weeks holiday before he returns to Arsenal. The phrase "the holiday is over " springs to mind on two fronts with that tweet..
Still rate him and am hopefull(rather than confident ) that the new regieme brings the best out of him..

But what position will he fit in ? By all accounts we will be going with a 4-3-3 formation, and in my opinion, you couldnt play him in the midfield 3 (cos it will require higher work-rate and tracking back) and you may as well leave him on the bench/beach as playing him on the wing. I understand people still holding out hope for an ozil turnaround cos I was like that up until midway through last season, but sometimes I think that you have to accept that it is gonna happen, and sell him for the extra transfer funds.

Unless we play 2 up front with a number 10 behind, then he will not suit us imo

[DB10GOONER]

Ozil tweeted yesterday that he has one more weeks holiday before he returns to Arsenal. The phrase "the holiday is over " springs to mind on two fronts with that tweet..
Still rate him and am hopefull(rather than confident ) that the new regieme brings the best out of him..

But what position will he fit in ? By all accounts we will be going with a 4-3-3 formation, and in my opinion, you couldnt play him in the midfield 3 (cos it will require higher work-rate and tracking back) and you may as well leave him on the bench/beach as playing him on the wing. I understand people still holding out hope for an ozil turnaround cos I was like that up until midway through last season, but sometimes I think that you have to accept that it is gonna happen, and sell him for the extra transfer funds.

Unless we play 2 up front with a number 10 behind, then he will not suit us imo

And where exactly does it say we have to play a regimented 4-3-3? We could play a 4-4-2 with the flat 2 and a number 10 or even a diamond.... both would easily utilise a number 10. I'd rather have the players to be able to change the system in game too for more flexibility and game management.

Also can I ask what exactly Ozil has to "turn around"? He just set the PL record for the least number of games to reach 50 assists ffs. His chances created figures are up there with the best in the league.

You have such a limited blinkered view of football augie - all DMs have to be 6'4" (even though most of the best ones are in the 5'7" to 5'10" bracket) and all midfielders have to tear arse around the pitch at 100 miles an hour....

[augie]

Ozil tweeted yesterday that he has one more weeks holiday before he returns to Arsenal. The phrase "the holiday is over " springs to mind on two fronts with that tweet..
Still rate him and am hopefull(rather than confident ) that the new regieme brings the best out of him..

But what position will he fit in ? By all accounts we will be going with a 4-3-3 formation, and in my opinion, you couldnt play him in the midfield 3 (cos it will require higher work-rate and tracking back) and you may as well leave him on the bench/beach as playing him on the wing. I understand people still holding out hope for an ozil turnaround cos I was like that up until midway through last season, but sometimes I think that you have to accept that it is gonna happen, and sell him for the extra transfer funds.

Unless we play 2 up front with a number 10 behind, then he will not suit us imo

And where exactly does it say we have to play a regimented 4-3-3? We could play a 4-4-2 with the flat 2 and a number 10 or even a diamond.... both would easily utilise a number 10. I'd rather have the players to be able to change the system in game too for more flexibility and game management.

Also can I ask what exactly Ozil has to "turn around"? He just set the PL record for the least number of games to reach 50 assists ffs. His chances created figures are up there with the best in the league.

You have such a limited blinkered view of football augie - all DMs have to be 6'4" (even though most of the best ones are in the 5'7" to 5'10" bracket) and all midfielders have to tear arse around the pitch at 100 miles an hour....

Firstly, I clearly said "by all accounts we will be going with 4-3-3" - I have limited knowledge of the finer details of emery's tactics, but history (plus last saturday's game against borehamwood) suggests that is his preferred formation (not mine), and that is what I was working off

Secondly, like this or not, ozil is coming off a poor 2017/2018 season with AFC, and an even worse summer with Germany, so that should be worrying for even his most passionate supporters (mentioning no-one in particular ). It is entirely possible that the new manager could re-energise him with AFC, but as talented as he is, I do not think that this team should be built around him and his skills which is why I continue to mentioned the formation conundrum - I'm not even sure if I would pick him ahead of miki or ramsey in the 10 position in the diamond formation if I'm honest.

People continue to disagree with my suggestion that a big powerful player is preferable in the DM position, and continue to point at kante as an example of why I am wrong - nobody, and I mean nobody, has acknowledged the fact that I continue to say, is that kante played his best football alongside a big powerful DM (matic), and was nowhere near as influencial last season. I will continually say that kante is a supplementry DM to play alongside the traditional DM, but is not physically strong enough to do the job on his own - that isnt a knock on him cos he is still a great player.

I NEVER said that all players have to run around the pitch at 100 miles an hour, but ozil doesnt run even hit 10 miles an hour for most of a game. At the moment you are refusing to accept the belief that emery wants his players to play a high energy pressing game (which is fine cos we havent played a competitive game yet), but if that is indeed the truth then EVERY SINGLE PLAYER has to buy into that or the system falls down, and that is the reality. Do you think that ozil can play that game ?

[DB10GOONER]

Ozil tweeted yesterday that he has one more weeks holiday before he returns to Arsenal. The phrase "the holiday is over " springs to mind on two fronts with that tweet..
Still rate him and am hopefull(rather than confident ) that the new regieme brings the best out of him..

But what position will he fit in ? By all accounts we will be going with a 4-3-3 formation, and in my opinion, you couldnt play him in the midfield 3 (cos it will require higher work-rate and tracking back) and you may as well leave him on the bench/beach as playing him on the wing. I understand people still holding out hope for an ozil turnaround cos I was like that up until midway through last season, but sometimes I think that you have to accept that it is gonna happen, and sell him for the extra transfer funds.

Unless we play 2 up front with a number 10 behind, then he will not suit us imo

And where exactly does it say we have to play a regimented 4-3-3? We could play a 4-4-2 with the flat 2 and a number 10 or even a diamond.... both would easily utilise a number 10. I'd rather have the players to be able to change the system in game too for more flexibility and game management.

Also can I ask what exactly Ozil has to "turn around"? He just set the PL record for the least number of games to reach 50 assists ffs. His chances created figures are up there with the best in the league.

You have such a limited blinkered view of football augie - all DMs have to be 6'4" (even though most of the best ones are in the 5'7" to 5'10" bracket) and all midfielders have to tear arse around the pitch at 100 miles an hour....

Firstly, I clearly said "by all accounts we will be going with 4-3-3" - I have limited knowledge

Perfect post.

[DB10GOONER]

Ozil tweeted yesterday that he has one more weeks holiday before he returns to Arsenal. The phrase "the holiday is over " springs to mind on two fronts with that tweet..
Still rate him and am hopefull(rather than confident ) that the new regieme brings the best out of him..

But what position will he fit in ? By all accounts we will be going with a 4-3-3 formation, and in my opinion, you couldnt play him in the midfield 3 (cos it will require higher work-rate and tracking back) and you may as well leave him on the bench/beach as playing him on the wing. I understand people still holding out hope for an ozil turnaround cos I was like that up until midway through last season, but sometimes I think that you have to accept that it is gonna happen, and sell him for the extra transfer funds.

Unless we play 2 up front with a number 10 behind, then he will not suit us imo

And where exactly does it say we have to play a regimented 4-3-3? We could play a 4-4-2 with the flat 2 and a number 10 or even a diamond.... both would easily utilise a number 10. I'd rather have the players to be able to change the system in game too for more flexibility and game management.

Also can I ask what exactly Ozil has to "turn around"? He just set the PL record for the least number of games to reach 50 assists ffs. His chances created figures are up there with the best in the league.

You have such a limited blinkered view of football augie - all DMs have to be 6'4" (even though most of the best ones are in the 5'7" to 5'10" bracket) and all midfielders have to tear arse around the pitch at 100 miles an hour....

Firstly, I clearly said "by all accounts we will be going with 4-3-3" - I have limited knowledge of the finer details of emery's tactics, but history (plus last saturday's game against borehamwood) suggests that is his preferred formation (not mine), and that is what I was working off

Secondly, like this or not, ozil is coming off a poor 2017/2018 season with AFC, and an even worse summer with Germany, so that should be worrying for even his most passionate supporters (mentioning no-one in particular ). It is entirely possible that the new manager could re-energise him with AFC, but as talented as he is, I do not think that this team should be built around him and his skills which is why I continue to mentioned the formation conundrum - I'm not even sure if I would pick him ahead of miki or ramsey in the 10 position in the diamond formation if I'm honest.

People continue to disagree with my suggestion that a big powerful player is preferable in the DM position, and continue to point at kante as an example of why I am wrong - nobody, and I mean nobody, has acknowledged the fact that I continue to say, is that kante played his best football alongside a big powerful DM (matic), and was nowhere near as influencial last season. I will continually say that kante is a supplementry DM to play alongside the traditional DM, but is not physically strong enough to do the job on his own - that isnt a knock on him cos he is still a great player.

I NEVER said that all players have to run around the pitch at 100 miles an hour, but ozil doesnt run even hit 10 miles an hour for most of a game. At the moment you are refusing to accept the belief that emery wants his players to play a high energy pressing game (which is fine cos we havent played a competitive game yet), but if that is indeed the truth then EVERY SINGLE PLAYER has to buy into that or the system falls down, and that is the reality. Do you think that ozil can play that game ?

Again you have a pretty blinkered view of what the pressing game is. You do not need every player to run around chasing the ball at 100 miles per hour all the tine. You only need to press and keep on the front foot. Most of the pressing game is about jockeying for position. Something Ozil and really any player can do once coached correctly. Also it's a myth that Ozil stands around and is lazy. Some statto last season came out with his mileage per game and it was up there with anyone else on the team so does that mean no one in our team can play that game? You cannot say a player cannot play any given system until you've actually seen that player play that system. Not one of our players was coached in pressing by Wenger. So for me everyone gets a clean slate under Dick. With the obvious exception of the utterly talentless Comedy Iwobi.

Another issue is creating chances. The games Ozil missed last season we created very little from midfield. Contrary to the myth, we are a better team with him in it than when he's not in it. To say you'd pick The Welsh Messi Lite and Mickey-tarrogan before him in a diamond is ludicrous as both lose possession cheaply and constantly and create very little.

Too many people let their dislike of a player cloud their opinion of him as a footballer. Ozil is far from perfect but he is still our only truly creative player at a top class level. Drop him and this team could resemble the GG teams of 93-95 quite quickly......

[augie]

Can somebody please shoot this german/turkish fcuker because Db's adoration of the guy is wearing me down

DB10 I give up buddy - you are right and ozil is king (is there no white flag emoticon ? )

[GranadaJoe]

Ozil tweeted yesterday that he has one more weeks holiday before he returns to Arsenal. The phrase "the holiday is over " springs to mind on two fronts with that tweet..
Still rate him and am hopefull(rather than confident ) that the new regieme brings the best out of him..

But what position will he fit in ? By all accounts we will be going with a 4-3-3 formation, and in my opinion, you couldnt play him in the midfield 3 (cos it will require higher work-rate and tracking back) and you may as well leave him on the bench/beach as playing him on the wing. I understand people still holding out hope for an ozil turnaround cos I was like that up until midway through last season, but sometimes I think that you have to accept that it is gonna happen, and sell him for the extra transfer funds.

Unless we play 2 up front with a number 10 behind, then he will not suit us imo

And where exactly does it say we have to play a regimented 4-3-3? We could play a 4-4-2 with the flat 2 and a number 10 or even a diamond.... both would easily utilise a number 10. I'd rather have the players to be able to change the system in game too for more flexibility and game management.

Also can I ask what exactly Ozil has to "turn around"? He just set the PL record for the least number of games to reach 50 assists ffs. His chances created figures are up there with the best in the league.

You have such a limited blinkered view of football augie - all DMs have to be 6'4" (even though most of the best ones are in the 5'7" to 5'10" bracket) and all midfielders have to tear arse around the pitch at 100 miles an hour....

Have you changed your mind on the usefulness of statistics?

[DB10GOONER]

Can somebody please shoot this german/turkish fcuker because Db's adoration of the guy is wearing me down

DB10 I give up buddy - you are right and ozil is king (is there no white flag emoticon ? )

Aw don't be like that augie. It's just a debate. And some banter.

Ozil certainly ain't king but I think we should take the chance and see if we can build a PL winning (or even PL challenging) team around his ability to create. We blew the chance with Fabregas and AA23 who were the last 2 really creative players we had. We have nothing to lose. And if after a reasonable period it's obvious it ain't working then are we any worse off than we were last year or 2 years ago or 6 years ago or - well you know where that's going.....

[DB10GOONER]

Ozil tweeted yesterday that he has one more weeks holiday before he returns to Arsenal. The phrase "the holiday is over " springs to mind on two fronts with that tweet..
Still rate him and am hopefull(rather than confident ) that the new regieme brings the best out of him..

But what position will he fit in ? By all accounts we will be going with a 4-3-3 formation, and in my opinion, you couldnt play him in the midfield 3 (cos it will require higher work-rate and tracking back) and you may as well leave him on the bench/beach as playing him on the wing. I understand people still holding out hope for an ozil turnaround cos I was like that up until midway through last season, but sometimes I think that you have to accept that it is gonna happen, and sell him for the extra transfer funds.

Unless we play 2 up front with a number 10 behind, then he will not suit us imo

And where exactly does it say we have to play a regimented 4-3-3? We could play a 4-4-2 with the flat 2 and a number 10 or even a diamond.... both would easily utilise a number 10. I'd rather have the players to be able to change the system in game too for more flexibility and game management.

Also can I ask what exactly Ozil has to "turn around"? He just set the PL record for the least number of games to reach 50 assists ffs. His chances created figures are up there with the best in the league.

You have such a limited blinkered view of football augie - all DMs have to be 6'4" (even though most of the best ones are in the 5'7" to 5'10" bracket) and all midfielders have to tear arse around the pitch at 100 miles an hour....

Have you changed your mind on the usefulness of statistics?

Shhh down Joey men are talking about football.



There is a big difference between throwing out a stat like "Legohead had a 98% pass completion rate" without a qualifier and saying a player "has created x number of assists and x number of chances" as those last two have very stringent qualifiers.

Actually no I'll just go back to Shhh down Joey men are talking about football.

[GranadaJoe]

Ozil tweeted yesterday that he has one more weeks holiday before he returns to Arsenal. The phrase "the holiday is over " springs to mind on two fronts with that tweet..
Still rate him and am hopefull(rather than confident ) that the new regieme brings the best out of him..

But what position will he fit in ? By all accounts we will be going with a 4-3-3 formation, and in my opinion, you couldnt play him in the midfield 3 (cos it will require higher work-rate and tracking back) and you may as well leave him on the bench/beach as playing him on the wing. I understand people still holding out hope for an ozil turnaround cos I was like that up until midway through last season, but sometimes I think that you have to accept that it is gonna happen, and sell him for the extra transfer funds.

Unless we play 2 up front with a number 10 behind, then he will not suit us imo

And where exactly does it say we have to play a regimented 4-3-3? We could play a 4-4-2 with the flat 2 and a number 10 or even a diamond.... both would easily utilise a number 10. I'd rather have the players to be able to change the system in game too for more flexibility and game management.

Also can I ask what exactly Ozil has to "turn around"? He just set the PL record for the least number of games to reach 50 assists ffs. His chances created figures are up there with the best in the league.

You have such a limited blinkered view of football augie - all DMs have to be 6'4" (even though most of the best ones are in the 5'7" to 5'10" bracket) and all midfielders have to tear arse around the pitch at 100 miles an hour....

Have you changed your mind on the usefulness of statistics?

Shhh down Joey men are talking about football.



There is a big difference between throwing out a stat like "Legohead had a 98% pass completion rate" without a qualifier and saying a player "has created x number of assists and x number of chances" as those last two have very stringent qualifiers.

Actually no I'll just go back to Shhh down Joey men are talking about football.

Those of us that are more critical of Ozil point out that, against the big teams Ozil regularly goes missing. he does cover a similar distance to most team-mates, but he rarely sprints, which is the key. Also, we've all seen him fail to close down players about to cross or shoot and jump out of tackles.
I don't deny he has a sublime weight of pass but he needs to produce regularly, especially in the big games. I'm intrigued to see how Emery sets up the team to get the best out of him and how Ozil responds to the new regime. Irrespective of our personal views of Ozil, I'm sure everybody hopes he can turn it on next season.

[DB10GOONER]

But what position will he fit in ? By all accounts we will be going with a 4-3-3 formation, and in my opinion, you couldnt play him in the midfield 3 (cos it will require higher work-rate and tracking back) and you may as well leave him on the bench/beach as playing him on the wing. I understand people still holding out hope for an ozil turnaround cos I was like that up until midway through last season, but sometimes I think that you have to accept that it is gonna happen, and sell him for the extra transfer funds.

Unless we play 2 up front with a number 10 behind, then he will not suit us imo

And where exactly does it say we have to play a regimented 4-3-3? We could play a 4-4-2 with the flat 2 and a number 10 or even a diamond.... both would easily utilise a number 10. I'd rather have the players to be able to change the system in game too for more flexibility and game management.

Also can I ask what exactly Ozil has to "turn around"? He just set the PL record for the least number of games to reach 50 assists ffs. His chances created figures are up there with the best in the league.

You have such a limited blinkered view of football augie - all DMs have to be 6'4" (even though most of the best ones are in the 5'7" to 5'10" bracket) and all midfielders have to tear arse around the pitch at 100 miles an hour....

Have you changed your mind on the usefulness of statistics?

Shhh down Joey men are talking about football.



There is a big difference between throwing out a stat like "Legohead had a 98% pass completion rate" without a qualifier and saying a player "has created x number of assists and x number of chances" as those last two have very stringent qualifiers.

Actually no I'll just go back to Shhh down Joey men are talking about football.

Those of us that are more critical of Ozil point out that, against the big teams Ozil regularly goes missing. he does cover a similar distance to most team-mates, but he rarely sprints, which is the key. Also, we've all seen him fail to close down players about to cross or shoot and jump out of tackles.
I don't deny he has a sublime weight of pass but he needs to produce regularly, especially in the big games. I'm intrigued to see how Emery sets up the team to get the best out of him and how Ozil responds to the new regime. Irrespective of our personal views of Ozil, I'm sure everybody hopes he can turn it on next season.

I'd agree that he does drift in and out of games and some games just doesn't turn up. But then in all honesty that can be said about every single player over the last 5 years of the Wenger era tbh.

I wouldn't agree that he rarely sprints though. I think that is a misconception based on his languid body language. When we hit a team on the break he is always there sprinting forward with the other attackers. I think though he is more intelligent and selective about when and where he runs. Not knocking English foitball here because I love it but you rarely see players running around like headless chickens in the other top European leagues. Bergkamp and Pires were similarly selective about when and where they ran.

Welwide gets so much praise on here for "putting a shift in" but ultimately he is shit with little to no end product. Personally I think until we learn to be more economical and intelligent in our movement then we will never win the CL for example.

But it will be very interesting to see how Ozil (and a few others that were in a Wenger comfort zone) will do under the new regime. If it doesn't work then Dick has to move those players on because the likes of Ozil on 350k a week are consuming huge chunks of our wage bill.

[augie]

And where exactly does it say we have to play a regimented 4-3-3? We could play a 4-4-2 with the flat 2 and a number 10 or even a diamond.... both would easily utilise a number 10. I'd rather have the players to be able to change the system in game too for more flexibility and game management.

Also can I ask what exactly Ozil has to "turn around"? He just set the PL record for the least number of games to reach 50 assists ffs. His chances created figures are up there with the best in the league.

You have such a limited blinkered view of football augie - all DMs have to be 6'4" (even though most of the best ones are in the 5'7" to 5'10" bracket) and all midfielders have to tear arse around the pitch at 100 miles an hour....

Have you changed your mind on the usefulness of statistics?

Shhh down Joey men are talking about football.



There is a big difference between throwing out a stat like "Legohead had a 98% pass completion rate" without a qualifier and saying a player "has created x number of assists and x number of chances" as those last two have very stringent qualifiers.

Actually no I'll just go back to Shhh down Joey men are talking about football.

Those of us that are more critical of Ozil point out that, against the big teams Ozil regularly goes missing. he does cover a similar distance to most team-mates, but he rarely sprints, which is the key. Also, we've all seen him fail to close down players about to cross or shoot and jump out of tackles.
I don't deny he has a sublime weight of pass but he needs to produce regularly, especially in the big games. I'm intrigued to see how Emery sets up the team to get the best out of him and how Ozil responds to the new regime. Irrespective of our personal views of Ozil, I'm sure everybody hopes he can turn it on next season.

I'd agree that he does drift in and out of games and some games just doesn't turn up. But then in all honesty that can be said about every single player over the last 5 years of the Wenger era tbh.

I wouldn't agree that he rarely sprints though. I think that is a misconception based on his languid body language. When we hit a team on the break he is always there sprinting forward with the other attackers. I think though he is more intelligent and selective about when and where he runs. Not knocking English foitball here because I love it but you rarely see players running around like headless chickens in the other top European leagues. Bergkamp and Pires were similarly selective about when and where they ran.

Welwide gets so much praise on here for "putting a shift in" but ultimately he is shit with little to no end product. Personally I think until we learn to be more economical and intelligent in our movement then we will never win the CL for example.

But it will be very interesting to see how Ozil (and a few others that were in a Wenger comfort zone) will do under the new regime. If it doesn't work then Dick has to move those players on because the likes of Ozil on 350k a week are consuming huge chunks of our wage bill.

The problem with that statement is that we should expect more from the biggest earner and (more importantly) the best player on paper in the club. Saying that he is doing the same as some of the other shite around him in recent years only paints him in a worse position cos natural world class ability like he has should shine like a beacon in a team like ours. This is what you said earlier about the ox earlier -

"And it is too easy to lay all the blame for his prolonged shitness at Wenger's door. Other players developed to some degree under Wenger because they wanted to and because they tried hard to. This little bollocks would misplace one pass and his head would drop. He has no character no grit."

Would any part of that (especially the last line) also not apply to ozil ? Personally I feel that ozil mentally checked out some time ago (and I can understand why that would happen), and I know that it is possible for him to turn it around, but that shipped has sailed for me tbh - I like the new mentality that emery will demand of his players, and tbh I would rather have a new high energy pressing team than a return to a team being built around a hit and miss world class talent

[Nos89]

Under Emery, Ozil will be the Player of the Year, breaking the 20 assist mark for the season.
It's his first new manager for 5 years at club and international level, and he has a lot of haters to prove wrong.

[flash gunner]

Under Emery, Ozil will be the Player of the Year, breaking the 20 assist mark for the season.
It's his first new manager for 5 years at club and international level, and he has a lot of haters to prove wrong.

or he'll be out on his ear hole. Its going to be one or the other

[GTG]

Under Emery, Ozil will be the Player of the Year, breaking the 20 assist mark for the season.
It's his first new manager for 5 years at club and international level, and he has a lot of haters to prove wrong.

But does he have the desire to do it? He's been on easy street at this club and it showed at the WC too.

You can throw all the stats you want at me but what i'll never accept from any player at Arsenal is someone walking around like he doesn't give a toss. I dont care whether his stats match up to anyone.... he's capable of more if he put more effort in.

I get that he must be frustrated with whats around him at times but the best players either drag the team along with them or basically make you look at it and go "well theres not much more he can do... its the shit around him"

Did anyone honestly feel like that about last season?

I'd like to see him moved on personally.