The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

[OneBardGooner]

ps: That Theresa May bloke is looking rough.

[Allgunsblazin]

Chamberlain The Appeaser No1 came back from Berlin with a piece of paper which really said "Neville fuck off"...
Theresa May The Appeaser No2 came back from Saltzburg with fuck all, see the similarities?

[Gunner Rob]

Haha - Theresa May has demanded new proposals from the EU to break the Brexit "impasse"

doesnt she realise it is nothing to do with them - it is the UK that wants to leave, so it is the UK which needs to come up with the proposals!
the EU have said what is and what is not posible. Theresa May keeps trying to cherry pick. Not happening!!!

IT IS 27 COUNTRIES V 1

[DB10GOONER]

And this is supposed to be the civil intellectual debating thread....?

Be nice, lads.

[Herd]

To Nut Flush ,you might be right about the leadership contest ,if May cant make a deal she's out but the prospect of having the corrupt Bullying cant that is Boris as leader fills me with dread .
This current Tory Government is the most incompetent I've ever seen and even makes Brown and Blair look reasonable .

Thing is I doubt if it's its in the Tory interest too have another Election right now as the last one didn't go to plan .

I'm all for a hard Brexit despite the daily scare stories but the problem is this government haven't made a Hard Exit plan .

Rob points out its 27 onto 1 but trust me we can make things as difficult for The Eu as they try to for us .
There might be turmoil for a short time but the European Politicians will be forced by their electorate to co operate once if it interrupts day to day business .

We might have to rely on our own Businesses to supply what we need which will do wonders for our trade deficit and jobs and without the Eu courts we could deport and exclude the many thousands of criminals and suspected terrorists that plague our inner cities from the Eu and elsewhere .
In London this would free up Thousand's of council houses that are currently housing recent immigrants .

Im still skeptical that we will go the hard way though,I feel a classic Eu face saving fudge coming !

[nut flush gooner]

To Nut Flush ,you might be right about the leadership contest ,if May cant make a deal she's out but the prospect of having the corrupt Bullying cant that is Boris as leader fills me with dread .
This current Tory Government is the most incompetent I've ever seen and even makes Brown and Blair look reasonable .

Thing is I doubt if it's its in the Tory interest too have another Election right now as the last one didn't go to plan .

I'm all for a hard Brexit despite the daily scare stories but the problem is this government haven't made a Hard Exit plan .

Rob points out its 27 onto 1 but trust me we can make things as difficult for The Eu as they try to for us .
There might be turmoil for a short time but the European Politicians will be forced by their electorate to co operate once if it interrupts day to day business .

We might have to rely on our own Businesses to supply what we need which will do wonders for our trade deficit and jobs and without the Eu courts we could deport and exclude the many thousands of criminals and suspected terrorists that plague our inner cities from the Eu and elsewhere .
In London this would free up Thousand's of council houses that are currently housing recent immigrants .

Im still skeptical that we will go the hard way though,I feel a classic Eu face saving fudge coming !

The next leader of the Conservative party is far more likely to be that toe rag Rees Mogg, on an different level to Johnson intellectually, has less gaffs in him and is very popular in the party as well as with their hardcore support.

This is my problem with Rees Mogg, he is a hardline brexiteer yet his own business has set up a satellite office in Dublin to deal with legislation issues his company faces post Brexit.

https://www.ft.com/content/38987fe2-6f1 ... 13e5c92914

One thing is for sure if he is the next PM, we will get a very hard Brexit. Fuck the man in the street, but he will be ok.

[Nos89]

The issue about the Irish border. I'm really not understanding why it has to change.
I'm listening to the arguments over it has to be a hard or soft border but it's not clear.
When they talk about a hard border, are they talking about putting barriers across like they have in Cyprus?
Without being abusive can someone explain why Irish border control has to change, please?

[nut flush gooner]

The issue about the Irish border. I'm really not understanding why it has to change.
I'm listening to the arguments over it has to be a hard or soft border but it's not clear.
When they talk about a hard border, are they talking about putting barriers across like they have in Cyprus?
Without being abusive can someone explain why Irish border control has to change, please?

Several reasons, one is at present we have no border controls because goods, services and people can travel around the EU (the schengen area) without the need for border checks. Although this doesnt apply to the UK/Ireland the hard border was abolished in the 90s following the Good Friday agreement.

The border issue is deeper than that though, the Good Friday agreement brought about the end of decades of conflict between the Republicans (IRA) and the Ulster Volunteer force, both Paramilitary organisations with different agendas. Creating a hard border post-Brexit could potentially reignite previous conflicts. If we have a hard Brexit, then the prospect of a hard border becomes a serious reality. So I guess its more than just an immigration issue, it has several aspects that need to be covered off before we leave the EU.

Another reason that the border is a sticking point is Theresa May fucked up by calling an election last year. She has no majority and she needs the Democratic Unionist Party votes to push through legislation through the house of commons, without them, her government cannot function as it
perhaps should. Of course to the DUP, the border with the republic is a major issue post Brexit. It could in its own right, bring the government down.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 78156.html

[OneBardGooner]

Because this has been handled so badly, I am beginning to think if they did have a re-vote quite a few of those who voted to leave without really knowing really enough about what could happen and the ramifications which are now becoming more apparent would vote to remain.

I think the yanks have a term for it

Aaah! Yes "Clusterfuck"

[Nos89]

The issue about the Irish border. I'm really not understanding why it has to change.
I'm listening to the arguments over it has to be a hard or soft border but it's not clear.
When they talk about a hard border, are they talking about putting barriers across like they have in Cyprus?
Without being abusive can someone explain why Irish border control has to change, please?

Several reasons, one is at present we have no border controls because goods, services and people can travel around the EU (the schengen area) without the need for border checks. Although this doesnt apply to the UK/Ireland the hard border was abolished in the 90s following the Good Friday agreement.

The border issue is deeper than that though, the Good Friday agreement brought about the end of decades of conflict between the Republicans (IRA) and the Ulster Volunteer force, both Paramilitary organisations with different agendas. Creating a hard border post-Brexit could potentially reignite previous conflicts. If we have a hard Brexit, then the prospect of a hard border becomes a serious reality. So I guess its more than just an immigration issue, it has several aspects that need to be covered off before we leave the EU.

Another reason that the border is a sticking point is Theresa May fucked up by calling an election last year. She has no majority and she needs the Democratic Unionist Party votes to push through legislation through the house of commons, without them, her government cannot function as it
perhaps should. Of course to the DUP, the border with the republic is a major issue post Brexit. It could in its own right, bring the government down.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 78156.html

Thank you Nut Flash, that's clarified my understanding of the issue.

[Nos89]

I heared on the radio last night from a well spoken caller to R5L that a Brexit deal has been done and agreed and that all the events that occurred this week are pure pantomime.
Part of the reason is to thwart Corbyns plans to press for a pre-christmas election.
Conspiracy Theory???

I don't believe it to be true, just wondering if anyone else heard it?

[OneBardGooner]

I think there are a couple of Tory MP's who want to challenge May for the PM job, but don't want to be seen by making the Brexit negotiations even worse, so are waiting till they are concluded, so you might be right she is playing / stringing it out so no challenges for the job can be made this side of the New Year.

There have been rumours of a snap election in November - which sounds like madness.

[DB10GOONER]

The issue about the Irish border. I'm really not understanding why it has to change.
I'm listening to the arguments over it has to be a hard or soft border but it's not clear.
When they talk about a hard border, are they talking about putting barriers across like they have in Cyprus?
Without being abusive can someone explain why Irish border control has to change, please?

Posted this before but it works here.

The problem is whilst both the UK and Irish governments don't want a hard border, if there is a full Brexit the EU will demand a hard border. Trade and security concerns dictate that.

The Irish government will do whatever the EU tells them, the current UK government won't fight too hard either because they are shored up by the DUP psychopaths who would like a hard border as it will reaffirm their "Britishness". Bizarrely the Republicans here are quietly thrilled by the idea of a hard border as they look on it as an opportunity to try swing the Nationalist moderates and fence sitters towards a united Ireland.

The alternative is a partial Brexit where NI are treated differently to the rest of the UK and remain within some of the EU mechanisms. Again the DUP who shore up your government won't stand for that. Neither will many EU power brokers that now have a real hump with the UK for having the cheek to want to leave. Yes a certain level of petty dislike and xenophobia are involved here.

The third option is a technology based soft border but things like cost, GDPR, free travel rights, and the technology required being a few years away, will affect that option negatively.

Conversely the "easiest" option if the UK do go full Brexit is a hard border. 

Again though many senior government people here are quietly predicting there will be no full Brexit. But how accurate that last bit is at this stage is anyone's guess.

[Gunner Rob]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kIU93qaFag

[A11M11]

Moving away from the business aspect of our leaving . Many people will point towards these points as their reason for voting as they did .

Bullet points from Mr Juncker's State of Union Address

1. Expansion of Schengen area - removing power from member states on who can and cannot enter their country
2. Creation of a new EU Budget Finance Minister
3. A European Banking Union bringing all European banks under EU control.
4. EU Financial Transaction Tax
5. EU agency tax to tax and control the internet
6. "Good to Go" EU army by 2025
7. Compulsory Euro membership - removing all opt outs
8. Creating a new EU Employment Minister

I can't believe that those that oppose Brexit really want the Euro , want all banks to answer to Europe , want the E.U to control the internet , shutting down on free speech , have their kids / grandkids sent to the Russian front to protect the E.U's gas and oil supply or potentially put down any protest ( see Catalonia ) . Have the E.U imposing their tax system and the imposition of an all powerful president - merging the commission and Council to 1 head of state with a " king" appointed in Brussels .
Few years ago they said that none of this would happen ( Lisbon ) but it's hidden the true objectives of their project I suggest you take time to watch this video , it is quite succinct and exposes the ways of the federalists that wish to take over yours , mine and the lives of all that follow.
Try it ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNS3z9KnuaU