Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[augie]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football ... der-voice/

[SteveO 35]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football ... der-voice/

All shaping up for him to be reinstated as captain when Auba fucked off

Still - he shouts a lot, so that makes him captain material. If I think of all the players I played with who shouted a lot, there'd be captains galore.....and most of them utter shite!

[Sean]

What a fucking awful season we're having. The same old mistakes time and again.

I am not convinced about Arteta, who has dropped 11 points already from five winnable league games, which would have put us on level points with Chelsea in 4th, instead of languishing in 9th. We should never have hired a rookie manager in the first place. He does talk a good game, but he seems wedded to the 4-2-3-1 system and sideways football, which puts Aubameyang out wide and wastes him, when we definitely need two strikers up front now. I had enough of dull, sideways and shot-shy football under the Frenchman whom I am loath to even mention.

Aubameyang is surely leaving this summer, if he has any ambition, then we're in real trouble; what with Lacazette seemingly past it and no-one else around to score enough goals to get us back into Europe. I can only hope that Arteta can do well with us next season, but I have no faith that the board will back him with the finance to rebuild this squad of toxic players. Maybe he will come good; I hope so. But he is saying all the wrong things about cúnts like Xhaka and Özil, who should be fucked off at the earliest opprtunity.

This ridiculous situation of us sliding down to mid-table has been on the cards during the old bastard's last decade at the club. With this useless American wig-wearing parasite, who will not invest in the first team, we're sliding into another stage of the purgatory that has lasted about fifteen years, three FA Cup wins notwithstanding. Winning the FA Cup this season would be great, and a backdoor to the Europa League, but I barely have any faith that we can get past Sheffield United, who have done very well this season. The remaining big hitters in the cup will surely muller us anyway. Frankly, I am just happy that we made it to forty points this season.

[SteveO 35]

What a fucking awful season we're having. The same old mistakes time and again.

I am not convinced about Arteta, who has dropped 11 points already from five winnable league games, which would have put us on level points with Chelsea in 4th, instead of languishing in 9th. We should never have hired a rookie manager in the first place. He does talk a good game, but he seems wedded to the 4-2-3-1 system and sideways football, which puts Aubameyang out wide and wastes him, when we definitely need two strikers up front now. I had enough of dull, sideways and shot-shy football under the Frenchman whom I am loath to even mention.

Aubameyang is surely leaving this summer, if he has any ambition, then we're in real trouble; what with Lacazette seemingly past it and no-one else around to score enough goals to get us back into Europe. I can only hope that Arteta can do well with us next season, but I have no faith that the board will back him with the finance to rebuild this squad of toxic players. Maybe he will come good; I hope so. But he is saying all the wrong things about cúnts like Xhaka and Özil, who should be fucked off at the earliest opprtunity.

This ridiculous situation of us sliding down to mid-table has been on the cards during the old bastard's last decade at the club. With this useless American wig-wearing parasite, who will not invest in the first team, we're sliding into another stage of the purgatory that has lasted about fifteen years, three FA Cup wins notwithstanding. Winning the FA Cup this season would be great, and a backdoor to the Europa League, but I barely have any faith that we can get past Sheffield United, who have done very well this season. The remaining big hitters in the cup will surely muller us anyway. Frankly, I am just happy that we made it to forty points this season.

Exactly as I see it, other than the fact it will only be another couple of years before mid-table will be out of our reach too. Next season, I'd take all of these clubs to finish above us without any doubt - City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Scum, United and Wolves. If Newcastle then finally get a decent coach and benefits of new ownership and Everton sort their shit out, I'd take those two as well. We'll be paddling in mid-table with Palace and Burnley

Once Auba fucks off, probably for a fraction of his value, there will be no class assets left to sell and we don't even have Mislintat's genius any more, so we will be signing journeymen like David Luiz or Mari who have been cast aside from top clubs, or unproven kids like Guendouzi in the hope one eventually comes good. I've given up any hope of a Kane, Sterling or Rashford coming out of our academy any time soon as they haven't produced a striker worthy of the name in 20+ years

[gooner265]

Genuine question for you all , if ancelotti or allegri had come in and had exactly the same results and played the same players , would they be getting as much grief as Arteta?

[augie]

Genuine question for you all , if ancelotti or allegri had come in and had exactly the same results and played the same players , would they be getting as much grief as Arteta?

Personally I think that is a pointless question - for starters I dont believe that an experienced manager would make some of the mistakes arteta is making, and those mistakes are leading to dropped pts

[A11M11]

Good question.
Either they were not approached or else they wouldn't come if told that the players they wanted out could not be got rid of.

[SteveO 35]

Good question.
Either they were not approached or else they wouldn't come if told that the players they wanted out could not be got rid of.

So basically the same criteria that Emery was hanged for then. Wanted Zaha. Wanted rid of Ozil, Mustafi and Xhaka

[SteveO 35]

The simple facts are these. When Emery left we were 8th in the league table, 8 points off the top four

Now we are 8th. 8 points off the top four. He now has a run of 4 league games which will go a long way to determining whether at the end of the season we improved upon that league position or not.

Next year will be his first full season. Anything short of a European final, and finishing 1 point outside of the top four is regression

Dress it up however you like about injuries, "identity" or attitude but those are the undeniable facts. Isn't it a results business after all?

If he improves upon that 8th place this season and does better than Emery's first full season, I will be the first on here to hold my hands up and say I got it wrong

[A11M11]

Pretty much ,
Financially the board were not prepared to bite the loss making bullet of getting rid of those players and as for Zaha , they probably already had reservations about Emery and were not prepared to splash £80 plus million to Palace plus his wage demands £ 7 million a year for a 27 year old when they could get a similar player for same wages £ 8 million cheaper and 4 years younger with a sell on potential.

[SteveO 35]

Pretty much ,
Financially the board were not prepared to bite the loss making bullet of getting rid of those players and as for Zaha , they probably already had reservations about Emery and were not prepared to splash £80 plus million to Palace plus his wage demands £ 7 million a year for a 27 year old when they could get a similar player for same wages £ 8 million cheaper and 4 years younger with a sell on potential.

The problem with sell on potential of course, is that the player actually needs to improve. Its clear that Emery, Freddie and Arteta have all used Pepe sparingly. He doesn't look capable of seeing out 90 minutes in English football on a regular basis and next season is a big one for him. There have been glimpses of talent on display and he makes defenders give away fouls so I would give the lad a chance, but he needs to adapt to the pace and intensity of the game here, otherwise that "sell on" value won't be there.

Zaha would have been a big asset in the team. I think we've lost so much physicality in our forward play. Lacazette is as meek as a kitten these days, Pepe is talented but lightweight. Nketiah has a way to go to beef up and be a centre forward. Zaha rides tackles and knocks people off stride better than most. If we'd signed him instead of Pepe and backed the manager a while longer to ship out the rest of the shite and have a settled back line with Saliba, Tierney and Leno in it and a front three of Auba, Martinelli and Zaha, I truly think we weren't far off having the right answers. The midfield for me is the weakest part of this squad - there aren't any goals in it and nor do I think any of them (barring Torreira) are natural holders with the discipline needed to play in that position

[A11M11]

Totally agree with the midfield comment , it's the reason why we often finish with a stat saying 1,2 or no shots in a match . Auba is dangerous from a wide position but if he plays down the middle he hardly sees the ball. Same for Lacazette at least he holds the ball up and when the ball is in the area he is quite dangerous but if the ball ain't there he goes deep to look for it and loses his potential.
Obviously you are a fan of Zaha , I think that were he in an Arsenal shirt he would spend half the season in the stands seeing out his suspensions. He would be a red card magnet unless he learned to stay on his feet and not plead with ref's who have already got an agenda against him. In my opinion a bullet well dodged.
Personally I had no actual problems with Emery but I think the squad did , he had a personality spat with Neymar at PSG and seemed to be going down the same street here . From comments made after he has gone it seems unlikely that he would be getting the best out of the young players that have openly admitted that they had to go to Freddie to get a translation of what he was saying . Afterall I speak a fair amount of Spanish but couldn't work out his interviews in his basque accent leave alone his English , so how a teenage south london kid was meant to is beyond me. However I think he had to go especially as I have already stated the board were not going down the route of losing money hand over fist to buy off the senior players that you want outed.
Arteta is as good as we are likely to get in the short term , what happens next is anyone's guess but more than likely he will last another couple of seasons and if seen to be relatively successful will be headhunted and gone to a more ambitious board willing to spend what it takes.

[gooner265]

The simple facts are these. When Emery left we were 8th in the league table, 8 points off the top four

Now we are 8th. 8 points off the top four. He now has a run of 4 league games which will go a long way to determining whether at the end of the season we improved upon that league position or not.

Next year will be his first full season. Anything short of a European final, and finishing 1 point outside of the top four is regression

Dress it up however you like about injuries, "identity" or attitude but those are the undeniable facts. Isn't it a results business after all?

If he improves upon that 8th place this season and does better than Emery's first full season, I will be the first on here to hold my hands up and say I got it wrong

So based on that criteria if allegri or ancelloti fell short of your benchmark next season you would say we made the wrong decision as well ?

[SteveO 35]

The simple facts are these. When Emery left we were 8th in the league table, 8 points off the top four

Now we are 8th. 8 points off the top four. He now has a run of 4 league games which will go a long way to determining whether at the end of the season we improved upon that league position or not.

Next year will be his first full season. Anything short of a European final, and finishing 1 point outside of the top four is regression

Dress it up however you like about injuries, "identity" or attitude but those are the undeniable facts. Isn't it a results business after all?

If he improves upon that 8th place this season and does better than Emery's first full season, I will be the first on here to hold my hands up and say I got it wrong

So based on that criteria if allegri or ancelloti fell short of your benchmark next season you would say we made the wrong decision as well ?

Of course - not sure what is hard to understand about that? Why would you want any manager to take you backwards?

[northbank123]

Still far from convinced and next few games (including the rest of this one) will give a massive indicator as to where we will be starting next season from.

However, no Bellerin starting again, Guendouzi (who I actually rate as a young player) not in the squad again, seems to have reached a position on Ozil and stuck to it. 3 at the back again. This is the sort of consistency which he needs to start showing in his approach if he is going to have a chance of making this work.