Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[SteveO 35]

If the club were using the same criteria as when they sacked Emery, Arteta would have already gone months ago.

Even if they did sack him at the end of the season, they would have done nothing as usual regarding finding a proper replacement before they pulled the trigger.

Will Captain Black even get an adequate transfer budget to do what needs to be done, is he even capable of carrying out the task? Maybe he might walk if not given the rebuilding cash?

As long as he continues to play that cúnt Xhaka it's only a matter of time but it could be another season before that happens.

Still you can guarantee that by the end of next season there will still be the mong element of our support, the same cúnts that supported Lord Wonga until the bitter end all saying give Arteta & Xhaka more time to get it right!

Same criteria? What a load of twaddle ,Emery couldnt push the team over the line to win A) the Europa league and B) top four finish when it was there for the taking
Arteta pushed the team over the line with 2 brilliant team performances and won the fa cup in August in his first season and Emery won fuck all

If Arteta does not win another trophy and the league position doesnt improve by the october november next season then he will be gone
and none of the mongs will be that surprised

I love the warped logic to blatantly support the 'chosen one' against his predecessor.......this post just about sums up what I've been saying this past year or so

Emery finishes 5th but he's a clown because it wasn't 4th........Arteta finishes 8th, but he's god's gift because he jumped us up from 10th on the last day of the season. Now, he's taken us back to 10th, that's fine too

Arsene Wenger won 3 FA Cups in an era when most of sane mind wanted him gone - would you like to see him back too on the basis of finishing 6th and winning the 2017 FA Cup

Priceless.

The 22 games you went unbeaten and finished 1 point off the CL means nothing. Finishing 10th and winning the cup that Wenger won 7 times gives you a free pass - classic.

Last time I looked a PL season was about 38 games - not just the last half a dozen. Fact - we finished 5th under Emery, 8th under Arteta, and we sure as hell won't be coming anywhere near 5th this season.

Put Emery on the list with all the managers who won something
He went 22 unbeaten and finished 5th and choked on the finishing line

I liked Emery Steveo
but I doubt he would have got us past City and Chelsea at the seasons end

Trophy's count
14 FA cups is something you should be proud of Steveo

I am proud of the cups mate - honestly. You'll probably find me on here most of the last 10 years saying how much I enjoy them - more so than the dead rubber league games we play at this stage of this season. All I'm saying is that how long does the credit of 1 FA Cup give to a manager? If we finish between 8th and 12th as I fully expect us too, and not win the Europa League......then does that FA Cup from 2020 still give him the right to manage a club like Arsenal into 2022?

Lets not kid ourselves that Emery was fired because of not winning anything - he wasn't. He was fired because we had a poor run of results that had seen us end 18/19 poorly, and after a promising start to 19/20 we dropped away again back to 7th. The club got rid of him because 5th is failure. They see themselves as a CL club and have said as much - the aim is the top 4. No amount of FA Cups are going to deliver that......so I ask, why Arteta is not being judged against that criteria?

I prefer to deal in facts - points, wins, losses, goals etc. There are all sorts of BS rumours about one manager having lost the dressing room, or another commanding more respect, but at the end of the day that doesn't show on the pitch.

Arteta has been in charge for 69 games - win rate 52%, amount of games lost 19
Emery was in charge for 78 games - win rate 55%, amount of games lost 19

So.....just 9 fewer games managed and those are the bare statistics. Lets not forget that 6 of those wins in the 69 games also came against The Three Feathers, The Red Lion and the Dog and Duck in this year's EL - an easier group one would struggle to find in our history (certainly easier than the teams from Portugal and Germany we've faced in earlier years at that stage).

He's picked the same team twice running only once in those 69 games - yet the previous manager was canned for not being able to work out what the system was and for baffling team selections

Arteta is to us what Di Matteo was to Chelsea - the difference being they recognised their 'caretaker' was out of his depth and despite winning them the biggest prize in football he didn't even see out the following season

[SteveO 35]

Is the timing of the stories about Henry declaring his ambition to be Arsenal manager one day significant ? Is there possibly whispers behind the scene that areta's future will depend on a strong last 10 weeks and that anything less will see his removal ? It seems unusual that stories like this are "leaked or planted" in the press unless there is some uncertainty about the manager, and it is all the more surprising when you consider that henry and arteta are former team-mates

I know that a lot of the times these rumours turn out to be bullshite, but I also know that a lot of times agents leak these rumours to buddies in the media to stir things up a bit. In an ideal world would I want henry as manager ? No is the definite answer, but if you asked me if I would take him ahead of a failing arteta, then the answer is an emphatic yes

A serious case of heart ruling your head there mate. Thierry was abysmal at Monaco (arguably the second best club in France) and his record in a crap MLS was hardly impressive.

Honestly what makes you believe he'd do any better than Arteta? His love for the club is apparent but beyond that I only see it as swapping one novice for another.

Maybe in a few years with more experience and a modicum of success I'd agree but not at this moment in time.

I completely agree with this Clummo - if we were to fire Arteta and replace him with Henry, it would be like a scene from the slapstick black and white films of old where the bloke keeps treading on the same rake and whacking himself in the face! To go from one novice to another would be absolutely insane in my view

This is the Arsenal FFS lads - where's our ambition. Poxy Everton - the trophyless club of 25 years, mid-table modern day shite - went and bagged themselves Ancelotti. Look at them now - pushing top 4 and cup quarter finalists. Look at how the majority of their signings have settled in. He joined almost exactly the same time as Arteta joined us - 21 December 2019 to be precise. They were 15th, now they're 6th. We were 10th....and now we're.....errrrm......oh yeah 10th!!

No time for novices - go get a big gun. By all means have a right hand younger man (like Everton have done with Big Dunc learning from a master) to take over in a couple of years time.

Henry would be a fucking disaster I'm sad to say. No more experiments - proven quality please. Max Allegri - brush up on your English mate!

[Clummo99]

I'm on record many times saying that Ancelotti was my first choice back when we knew the French Fraud was finally slinging his hook and even more so after Emery because he was actually available.

A few on here spouting that he was a busted flush, a hasbeen and that we'd dodged a bullet after literally 2 bad early results at Everton .

As they say, form is temporary but class is permanent. The bloke has managed some of the best in the world and won a multitude of trophies.

Imagine what someone of his calibre could have done with our squad even with just a short term contract.

[augie]

Lads, read my post again - I said that I wouldnt want henry as a manager either, but given a choice between having a manager who MIGHT be a success, or a guy that is failing badly already, then I would opt for henry.

Ancelotti wasnt my first choice (I think), but for me he was the obvious choice if going for a top manager like allegri or conte wasnt on the cards. There are fans on here that regularly slate brendan rodgers and eddie howe and I understand the reasons why, but again they are experienced managers who wouldnt make the same mistakes on an ongoing basis that pep's arrogant former water boy makes.

I feel that we have now regressed to where we were pre emery - back then I needed wenger gone and all I needed from the next guy was a basic understanding of the managers job, and a willingness to be ruthless and cull that shit that wenger had accumulated. All I want right now is arteta gone and let him be replaced by an eddie howe type of manager if needs be as a bridge guy until we are in a position to attract a top manager again. I dont need the next manager to be THE manager, but I do need him to be an upgrade on arteta and for me that wouldnt be hard.

This is where I am right now - so utterly pissed off at a situation that I can see is get gonna much, much worse if arteta stays beyond the end of the season, and that desperation leads me to want managers that I wouldnt normally even consider. If he is still in charge come june 1st, you will see an exodus of young players out of the club, and in doing so arteta will not alone kill our present but also our future

[herbert]

If the club were using the same criteria as when they sacked Emery, Arteta would have already gone months ago.

Even if they did sack him at the end of the season, they would have done nothing as usual regarding finding a proper replacement before they pulled the trigger.

Will Captain Black even get an adequate transfer budget to do what needs to be done, is he even capable of carrying out the task? Maybe he might walk if not given the rebuilding cash?

As long as he continues to play that cúnt Xhaka it's only a matter of time but it could be another season before that happens.

Still you can guarantee that by the end of next season there will still be the mong element of our support, the same cúnts that supported Lord Wonga until the bitter end all saying give Arteta & Xhaka more time to get it right!

Same criteria? What a load of twaddle ,Emery couldnt push the team over the line to win A) the Europa league and B) top four finish when it was there for the taking
Arteta pushed the team over the line with 2 brilliant team performances and won the fa cup in August in his first season and Emery won fuck all

If Arteta does not win another trophy and the league position doesnt improve by the october november next season then he will be gone
and none of the mongs will be that surprised

I love the warped logic to blatantly support the 'chosen one' against his predecessor.......this post just about sums up what I've been saying this past year or so

Emery finishes 5th but he's a clown because it wasn't 4th........Arteta finishes 8th, but he's god's gift because he jumped us up from 10th on the last day of the season. Now, he's taken us back to 10th, that's fine too

Arsene Wenger won 3 FA Cups in an era when most of sane mind wanted him gone - would you like to see him back too on the basis of finishing 6th and winning the 2017 FA Cup

Priceless.

The 22 games you went unbeaten and finished 1 point off the CL means nothing. Finishing 10th and winning the cup that Wenger won 7 times gives you a free pass - classic.

Last time I looked a PL season was about 38 games - not just the last half a dozen. Fact - we finished 5th under Emery, 8th under Arteta, and we sure as hell won't be coming anywhere near 5th this season.

Put Emery on the list with all the managers who won something
He went 22 unbeaten and finished 5th and choked on the finishing line

I liked Emery Steveo
but I doubt he would have got us past City and Chelsea at the seasons end

Trophy's count
14 FA cups is something you should be proud of Steveo

I am proud of the cups mate - honestly. You'll probably find me on here most of the last 10 years saying how much I enjoy them - more so than the dead rubber league games we play at this stage of this season. All I'm saying is that how long does the credit of 1 FA Cup give to a manager? If we finish between 8th and 12th as I fully expect us too, and not win the Europa League......then does that FA Cup from 2020 still give him the right to manage a club like Arsenal into 2022?

Lets not kid ourselves that Emery was fired because of not winning anything - he wasn't. He was fired because we had a poor run of results that had seen us end 18/19 poorly, and after a promising start to 19/20 we dropped away again back to 7th. The club got rid of him because 5th is failure. They see themselves as a CL club and have said as much - the aim is the top 4. No amount of FA Cups are going to deliver that......so I ask, why Arteta is not being judged against that criteria?

I prefer to deal in facts - points, wins, losses, goals etc. There are all sorts of BS rumours about one manager having lost the dressing room, or another commanding more respect, but at the end of the day that doesn't show on the pitch.

Arteta has been in charge for 69 games - win rate 52%, amount of games lost 19
Emery was in charge for 78 games - win rate 55%, amount of games lost 19

So.....just 9 fewer games managed and those are the bare statistics. Lets not forget that 6 of those wins in the 69 games also came against The Three Feathers, The Red Lion and the Dog and Duck in this year's EL - an easier group one would struggle to find in our history (certainly easier than the teams from Portugal and Germany we've faced in earlier years at that stage).

He's picked the same team twice running only once in those 69 games - yet the previous manager was canned for not being able to work out what the system was and for baffling team selections

Arteta is to us what Di Matteo was to Chelsea - the difference being they recognised their 'caretaker' was out of his depth and despite winning them the biggest prize in football he didn't even see out the following season

Fair points mate

[IW8Goalmachine]

There's no point getting frustrated because he is here until at least crowds are back to show their disapproval.

Saying that I wouldn't be surprised if the crowd cheered for him.

[A11M11]

It cost over £10 million just to get shot of Emery . Can you see Kroenke doing that again?
What would you rather have , money spent on players or money spent on another unproven manager ? because anyone with the top pedigree we might want is not touching Arsenal with the proverbial bargepole.

[Clummo99]

Lads, read my post again - I said that I wouldnt want henry as a manager either, but given a choice between having a manager who MIGHT be a success, or a guy that is failing badly already, then I would opt for henry.

Ancelotti wasnt my first choice (I think), but for me he was the obvious choice if going for a top manager like allegri or conte wasnt on the cards. There are fans on here that regularly slate brendan rodgers and eddie howe and I understand the reasons why, but again they are experienced managers who wouldnt make the same mistakes on an ongoing basis that pep's arrogant former water boy makes.

I feel that we have now regressed to where we were pre emery - back then I needed wenger gone and all I needed from the next guy was a basic understanding of the managers job, and a willingness to be ruthless and cull that shit that wenger had accumulated. All I want right now is arteta gone and let him be replaced by an eddie howe type of manager if needs be as a bridge guy until we are in a position to attract a top manager again. I dont need the next manager to be THE manager, but I do need him to be an upgrade on arteta and for me that wouldnt be hard.

This is where I am right now - so utterly pissed off at a situation that I can see is get gonna much, much worse if arteta stays beyond the end of the season, and that desperation leads me to want managers that I wouldnt normally even consider. If he is still in charge come june 1st, you will see an exodus of young players out of the club, and in doing so arteta will not alone kill our present but also our future

That's exactly why I wanted an Ancelotti or a Benitez type directly after Wanker. An old and experienced head on a short 2 year contract to steady the listing ship. Someone with nothing to prove and able to sort the shitfest left behind by the French Fraud.

All moot now anyway, sadly.

[Clummo99]

One thing I'd like to add....

Not so long ago we were all laughing at Man Utd with Ollie at the wheel but given time he seems to be getting some things right. We all wouldn't mind being a point or two behind them.

I'm not quite fully in the Arteta out camp just yet as it's not beyond the realms of possibility that something similar could happen with us.

[SteveO 35]

Anyone who hasn't managed in the top flight (of this or one of the other top leagues in Europe) for at least five years, ideally ten, is out of the question for me

In any walk of life, a young first team manager/leader makes mistakes and they need a safe environment to do it in. You don't get CEOs of FTSE 100 companies at 37 years old, and there's a reason why.......they don't have the life experience to manage a multitude of stakeholders. It isn't their fault, it comes with age. Managing a top flight football team with the egos, agents, press, difficult owners etc, is the job for someone in their 40s.....its why Wenger, Klopp, Maureen etc all flourished in their late 40s. You've learnt your trade out of the spotlight with smaller clubs, you've learned what works and what doesn't, how to handle certain players and situations, how to be humble enough with age to rectify your mistakes.

I see it every time in corporate life. First time manager in their 30s makes a mistake and is so desperate to be 'right first time' he/she defends the indefensible because its all about them and proving themselves. I even recognise it in myself. Roll the clock forward 10 years+ and you're better equipped for all sorts of situations -especially handling people. Your desire to be 'right first time' evolves to wanting to do the right thing.....even it means reversing something you did and having the humility to say you were wrong

Arteta will probably be a decent manager when he's 48, and maybe ready to manage the Arsenal. But he sure as hell isn't ready at 38 for all those reasons above, and nor will any other 38 year old who only just has their badges.

Football is such an arrogant sport. We don't need technology. We can give grown up jobs to novices. Being a great manager is about getting the besy out of everyone. Clough, Paisley, Fergie, even Wenger in his pomp - none of them were master tacticians. They had right hand men for that. They were experienced and excellent people managers and motivators. Arteta can't be that at 38, and it isn't his fault. Just like it wasn't Di Matteo's fault, or AVB, or a whole host of other under 40s who have tried and failed in the PL

[augie]

One thing I'd like to add....

Not so long ago we were all laughing at Man Utd with Ollie at the wheel but given time he seems to be getting some things right. We all wouldn't mind being a point or two behind them.

I'm not quite fully in the Arteta out camp just yet as it's not beyond the realms of possibility that something similar could happen with us.

There arent too many managers on the arteta "no way would I want them" level, but I have to say that solskjaer is one of them - the man is a woeful, woeful manager who finds himself in second place in the worst top division in english football history, so please dont take that as a vindication of ole's "talents". It is a testament of how shit a manager arteta is, that in the worst top division EVER, he has his team in 10th place Solskjaer is gonna use this "success" to boost his own credibility but make no mistake, next season teams like the victims etc will be back in the groove and ole and his team will be left a long way back

[DB10GOONER]

If the club were using the same criteria as when they sacked Emery, Arteta would have already gone months ago.

Even if they did sack him at the end of the season, they would have done nothing as usual regarding finding a proper replacement before they pulled the trigger.

Will Captain Black even get an adequate transfer budget to do what needs to be done, is he even capable of carrying out the task? Maybe he might walk if not given the rebuilding cash?

As long as he continues to play that cúnt Xhaka it's only a matter of time but it could be another season before that happens.

Still you can guarantee that by the end of next season there will still be the mong element of our support, the same cúnts that supported Lord Wonga until the bitter end all saying give Arteta & Xhaka more time to get it right!

Same criteria? What a load of twaddle ,Emery couldnt push the team over the line to win A) the Europa league and B) top four finish when it was there for the taking
Arteta pushed the team over the line with 2 brilliant team performances and won the fa cup in August in his first season and Emery won fuck all

If Arteta does not win another trophy and the league position doesnt improve by the october november next season then he will be gone
and none of the mongs will be that surprised

I love the warped logic to blatantly support the 'chosen one' against his predecessor.......this post just about sums up what I've been saying this past year or so

Emery finishes 5th but he's a clown because it wasn't 4th........Arteta finishes 8th, but he's god's gift because he jumped us up from 10th on the last day of the season. Now, he's taken us back to 10th, that's fine too

Arsene Wenger won 3 FA Cups in an era when most of sane mind wanted him gone - would you like to see him back too on the basis of finishing 6th and winning the 2017 FA Cup

Priceless.

The 22 games you went unbeaten and finished 1 point off the CL means nothing. Finishing 10th and winning the cup that Wenger won 7 times gives you a free pass - classic.

Last time I looked a PL season was about 38 games - not just the last half a dozen. Fact - we finished 5th under Emery, 8th under Arteta, and we sure as hell won't be coming anywhere near 5th this season.

Put Emery on the list with all the managers who won something
He went 22 unbeaten and finished 5th and choked on the finishing line

I liked Emery Steveo
but I doubt he would have got us past City and Chelsea at the seasons end

Trophy's count
14 FA cups is something you should be proud of Steveo

I am proud of the cups mate - honestly. You'll probably find me on here most of the last 10 years saying how much I enjoy them - more so than the dead rubber league games we play at this stage of this season. All I'm saying is that how long does the credit of 1 FA Cup give to a manager? If we finish between 8th and 12th as I fully expect us too, and not win the Europa League......then does that FA Cup from 2020 still give him the right to manage a club like Arsenal into 2022?

Lets not kid ourselves that Emery was fired because of not winning anything - he wasn't. He was fired because we had a poor run of results that had seen us end 18/19 poorly, and after a promising start to 19/20 we dropped away again back to 7th. The club got rid of him because 5th is failure. They see themselves as a CL club and have said as much - the aim is the top 4. No amount of FA Cups are going to deliver that......so I ask, why Arteta is not being judged against that criteria?

I prefer to deal in facts - points, wins, losses, goals etc. There are all sorts of BS rumours about one manager having lost the dressing room, or another commanding more respect, but at the end of the day that doesn't show on the pitch.

Arteta has been in charge for 69 games - win rate 52%, amount of games lost 19
Emery was in charge for 78 games - win rate 55%, amount of games lost 19

So.....just 9 fewer games managed and those are the bare statistics. Lets not forget that 6 of those wins in the 69 games also came against The Three Feathers, The Red Lion and the Dog and Duck in this year's EL - an easier group one would struggle to find in our history (certainly easier than the teams from Portugal and Germany we've faced in earlier years at that stage).

He's picked the same team twice running only once in those 69 games - yet the previous manager was canned for not being able to work out what the system was and for baffling team selections

Arteta is to us what Di Matteo was to Chelsea - the difference being they recognised their 'caretaker' was out of his depth and despite winning them the biggest prize in football he didn't even see out the following season

The bit in red is not the full story at all. He was sacked because of a combination of all those things plus the fact for whatever reason he could not get the team to look drilled or organised and we were a shambles. Your fondness for an admittedly likeable bloke in Emery seems to have softened your memory of the end of his first season and the start of his second. Go back and read the match threads on here for a real flavour of how awful we were.

I don't know why you keep dragging almost every discussion on Martinez-Lite back to Emery. Emery is gone. He had to go. He was not good enough. A shame but that's the facts. Martinez-Lite is also not good enough and arguably much worse than Emery in some ways and he too needs to go.

Just because the next manager was not world class does not mean we were wrong to sack Emery. Honestly we don't need to qualify that with constant reference to Emery.

We did not make a mistake in sacking Emery. The mistake was in appointing Martinez-Lite and it still astonishes me that a club the size of Arsenal would appoint a novice with zero minutes experience as a manager at any level. Astonishing but not surprising given the cùnt that owns us.

[SteveO 35]

One thing I'd like to add....

Not so long ago we were all laughing at Man Utd with Ollie at the wheel but given time he seems to be getting some things right. We all wouldn't mind being a point or two behind them.

I'm not quite fully in the Arteta out camp just yet as it's not beyond the realms of possibility that something similar could happen with us.

There arent too many managers on the arteta "no way would I want them" level, but I have to say that solskjaer is one of them - the man is a woeful, woeful manager who finds himself in second place in the worst top division in english football history, so please dont take that as a vindication of ole's "talents". It is a testament of how shit a manager arteta is, that in the worst top division EVER, he has his team in 10th place Solskjaer is gonna use this "success" to boost his own credibility but make no mistake, next season teams like the victims etc will be back in the groove and ole and his team will be left a long way back

I don't think Solsjkaer is a great manager either but unlike Arteta, and going back to my post above, he has at least had some opportunity to manage with Molde and Cardiff. I'm not for one minute suggesting I'd want him as manager, or that he's the next great thing but he would of learned some valuable lessons at clubs where the stakes are lower - he even took Cardiff down. We've given the job to a guy who hasn't managed anyone, anywhere, ever. Fuck me people worried about Wenger "only" managing Monaco and Grampus Eight, and Graham only managing Millwall, and Rioch managing Bolton......but this bloke hasn't managed anyone!

The more I think about it, the more unbelievable it is. This is Arsenal - not Molde, not Cardiff City, not Bolton fucking Wanderers or Millwall.

One of the greatest clubs in the land managed by someone who hasn't a day's managerial experience anywhere - just fucking unreal

[SteveO 35]

Same criteria? What a load of twaddle ,Emery couldnt push the team over the line to win A) the Europa league and B) top four finish when it was there for the taking
Arteta pushed the team over the line with 2 brilliant team performances and won the fa cup in August in his first season and Emery won fuck all

If Arteta does not win another trophy and the league position doesnt improve by the october november next season then he will be gone
and none of the mongs will be that surprised

I love the warped logic to blatantly support the 'chosen one' against his predecessor.......this post just about sums up what I've been saying this past year or so

Emery finishes 5th but he's a clown because it wasn't 4th........Arteta finishes 8th, but he's god's gift because he jumped us up from 10th on the last day of the season. Now, he's taken us back to 10th, that's fine too

Arsene Wenger won 3 FA Cups in an era when most of sane mind wanted him gone - would you like to see him back too on the basis of finishing 6th and winning the 2017 FA Cup

Priceless.

The 22 games you went unbeaten and finished 1 point off the CL means nothing. Finishing 10th and winning the cup that Wenger won 7 times gives you a free pass - classic.

Last time I looked a PL season was about 38 games - not just the last half a dozen. Fact - we finished 5th under Emery, 8th under Arteta, and we sure as hell won't be coming anywhere near 5th this season.

Put Emery on the list with all the managers who won something
He went 22 unbeaten and finished 5th and choked on the finishing line

I liked Emery Steveo
but I doubt he would have got us past City and Chelsea at the seasons end

Trophy's count
14 FA cups is something you should be proud of Steveo

I am proud of the cups mate - honestly. You'll probably find me on here most of the last 10 years saying how much I enjoy them - more so than the dead rubber league games we play at this stage of this season. All I'm saying is that how long does the credit of 1 FA Cup give to a manager? If we finish between 8th and 12th as I fully expect us too, and not win the Europa League......then does that FA Cup from 2020 still give him the right to manage a club like Arsenal into 2022?

Lets not kid ourselves that Emery was fired because of not winning anything - he wasn't. He was fired because we had a poor run of results that had seen us end 18/19 poorly, and after a promising start to 19/20 we dropped away again back to 7th. The club got rid of him because 5th is failure. They see themselves as a CL club and have said as much - the aim is the top 4. No amount of FA Cups are going to deliver that......so I ask, why Arteta is not being judged against that criteria?

I prefer to deal in facts - points, wins, losses, goals etc. There are all sorts of BS rumours about one manager having lost the dressing room, or another commanding more respect, but at the end of the day that doesn't show on the pitch.

Arteta has been in charge for 69 games - win rate 52%, amount of games lost 19
Emery was in charge for 78 games - win rate 55%, amount of games lost 19

So.....just 9 fewer games managed and those are the bare statistics. Lets not forget that 6 of those wins in the 69 games also came against The Three Feathers, The Red Lion and the Dog and Duck in this year's EL - an easier group one would struggle to find in our history (certainly easier than the teams from Portugal and Germany we've faced in earlier years at that stage).

He's picked the same team twice running only once in those 69 games - yet the previous manager was canned for not being able to work out what the system was and for baffling team selections

Arteta is to us what Di Matteo was to Chelsea - the difference being they recognised their 'caretaker' was out of his depth and despite winning them the biggest prize in football he didn't even see out the following season

The bit in red is not the full story at all. He was sacked because of a combination of all those things plus the fact for whatever reason he could not get the team to look drilled or organised and we were a shambles. Your fondness for an admittedly likeable bloke in Emery seems to have softened your memory of the end of his first season and the start of his second. Go back and read the match threads on here for a real flavour of how awful we were.

I don't know why you keep dragging almost every discussion on Martinez-Lite back to Emery. Emery is gone. He had to go. He was not good enough. A shame but that's the facts. Martinez-Lite is also not good enough and arguably much worse than Emery in some ways and he too needs to go.

Just because the next manager was not world class does not mean we were wrong to sack Emery. Honestly we don't need to qualify that with constant reference to Emery.

We did not make a mistake in sacking Emery. The mistake was in appointing Martinez-Lite and it still astonishes me that a club the size of Arsenal would appoint a novice with zero minutes experience as a manager at any level. Astonishing but not surprising given the cùnt that owns us.

I can only assume you didn't read the bit you highlighted in red because I actually said we ended the season poorly, and that we also dropped away in the second season!

I 'drag it back' because I don't understand what success looks like for Arsenal any more.

Arteta lost 19 games quicker than Emery did
We are lower in the league than we were under Emery
We mock losing 1-4 to Chelsea in the EL final - this goon got us knocked out by the worst travellers in fucking Europe in the round of 32

Yay, the FA Cup and the Community Shield

Hear it again - I didn't want Emery. I don't want him back. I think we sacked him too soon but I can get over that.

What i can't get over is people bleating on about "being more organised", "having a plan", "being more competitive" - because the facts don't lie buddy. We're 10th heading into the final stretch for good reason - we're worse now than we were 2 years ago when we were 4th and blew it. We might concede a few less, but we also score A LOT less and we lose more games. All facts I'm sorry to say

Emery wrong man. Arteta an even worse choice. Edu - wrong man. Freddie - shamelessly thrown to the wolves and given no chance as caretaker trying to carry multiple jobs. What chance have we got with this fucking helmet of an owner ?

[Clummo99]

One thing I'd like to add....

Not so long ago we were all laughing at Man Utd with Ollie at the wheel but given time he seems to be getting some things right. We all wouldn't mind being a point or two behind them.

I'm not quite fully in the Arteta out camp just yet as it's not beyond the realms of possibility that something similar could happen with us.

There arent too many managers on the arteta "no way would I want them" level, but I have to say that solskjaer is one of them - the man is a woeful, woeful manager who finds himself in second place in the worst top division in english football history, so please dont take that as a vindication of ole's "talents". It is a testament of how shit a manager arteta is, that in the worst top division EVER, he has his team in 10th place Solskjaer is gonna use this "success" to boost his own credibility but make no mistake, next season teams like the victims etc will be back in the groove and ole and his team will be left a long way back

I'm not talking about Solskjaer's talent at all. The point I'm making is that things can always change for the better as they can always change for the worst. The current league is what it is mate. It may be of poor quality in your opinion but there's nothing anyone can do about that is there?

Referring to your post about Henry, yes you said in an ideal world you wouldn't take him but you also said that out of the two right now you would replace a failing Arteta with him. Henry's track record to date suggests that things could possibly be worse with him at the helm. He was on the way to relegating Monaco before he was sacked in a league that, one club aside, is just about Championship level.