Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[Gunner Rob]

Just seen an interesting stat on Twitter.

Spurs under Conte (appointed November) have now scored more goals than Arsenal have all season

Trust the process

[SteveO 35]

Just seen an interesting stat on Twitter.

Spurs under Conte (appointed November) have now scored more goals than Arsenal have all season

Trust the process

The only surprise is that anyone would be surprised

They have 2 world class strikers and in Moura and Bergwijn, two that would walk into our team

Saka might as well leave for Liverpool now, if Kroenke/Edu/Carpet Head are the future of this club

[wilson2.0]

There are decisions that are so obvious that not ringing them is a sackable offence.

Lacazette should have been dropped months ago.

Its now critical and not putting this French donkey out of his misery and persisting with him is borderline sabotage.

What's the point of showing ruthlessness with PEA if you accept such mediocrity from Lacazette?

[begeegs]

I hoped that Arteta would come good and for a spell, it looked promising, however you can see that he really is a goldilocks manager - everything has to be just right to work. He also can only tolerate certain personalities and is married to his way of football which gets the least out of the striker position. I reckon that when Nketia and Laca leave, they go on to score goals like Auba.

The problem is Arteta and the spell that he has over the owners. He has been allowed to waste so much money, it beggars belief. 7th place here we come.

[DB10GOONER]

Martinez-Lite is such a novice he does not even understand how to run the lone striker. It's a limited system.

Loosely speaking you can break it down into three basic types of lone striker (with some variants, agreed):

1. A tall aggressive striker with aerial ability and you whip crosses in from your over lapping wing backs.

2. A physically dominating strong striker that plays with his back to goal and holds up the ball to lay it off to an attacking midfielder that arrives late into the box like Ramsey did so effectively for a half season with Giroud.

3. A short pacey striker that knows where and when to run in behind off the shoulder.

Lacazette is none of those. He is short but has no pace. He has no aerial ability. We do not have a central attacking midfielder that makes those late runs into the box even if Lacazette could manage effective hold up play.

Lacazette needs to play in a front two. So Martinez-Lite plays him as a lone striker.... leaving Lacazette wandering around up front hoping for the best. Which seems to be Martinez-Lite's managerial style: hope for the best.

[wilson2.0]

Martinez-Lite is such a novice he does not even understand how to run the lone striker. It's a limited system.

Loosely speaking you can break it down into three basic types of lone striker (with some variants, agreed):

1. A tall aggressive striker with aerial ability and you whip crosses in from your over lapping wing backs.

2. A physically dominating strong striker that plays with his back to goal and holds up the ball to lay it off to an attacking midfielder that arrives late into the box like Ramsey did so effectively for a half season with Giroud.

3. A short pacey striker that knows where and when to run in behind off the shoulder.

Lacazette is none of those. He is short but has no pace. He has no aerial ability. We do not have a central attacking midfielder that makes those late runs into the box even if Lacazette could manage effective hold up play.

Lacazette needs to play in a front two. So Martinez-Lite plays him as a lone striker.... leaving Lacazette wandering around up front hoping for the best. Which seems to be Martinez-Lite's managerial style: hope for the best.

Its simple. unless Arteta tries Martinelli upfront we wont be finishing top 4.

Some are saying its a risk as its unproven. And yes, it is a risk, but at least there unknown upside potential with playing Martinelli down the middle. Where as with the French cart horse you know your getting no penetration.

Also, given the disruption to the fullbacks and Partey, I would change the formation to a back 3

-----------------------Ramsdale-------------------------------
-----------Holding-------White------Gabriel---------------
Cedric------------------------------------------------------Saka
-------------------ASL--------------Xhaka---------
----------Odegaard--------------------------ERS----------------
--------------------------Martinelli---------------------------------


Without Partey and our first choice fullbacks we cant keep it tight at the back. We are 5-1 down on aggregate since the injury crisis against Palace and Brighton. We simply need more protection at the back. Saka is also going to play for the team and revert back to his LWB days.

Arteta simply needs to be bold, and playing Xhaka at left back isnt bold, its fuckng stupid, as is playing one of ESR/Odegaard as a central idfielder.

if 4-2-3-1 continues with Lacazette as the 1 they its already over

[DB10GOONER]

Martinez-Lite is such a novice he does not even understand how to run the lone striker. It's a limited system.

Loosely speaking you can break it down into three basic types of lone striker (with some variants, agreed):

1. A tall aggressive striker with aerial ability and you whip crosses in from your over lapping wing backs.

2. A physically dominating strong striker that plays with his back to goal and holds up the ball to lay it off to an attacking midfielder that arrives late into the box like Ramsey did so effectively for a half season with Giroud.

3. A short pacey striker that knows where and when to run in behind off the shoulder.

Lacazette is none of those. He is short but has no pace. He has no aerial ability. We do not have a central attacking midfielder that makes those late runs into the box even if Lacazette could manage effective hold up play.

Lacazette needs to play in a front two. So Martinez-Lite plays him as a lone striker.... leaving Lacazette wandering around up front hoping for the best. Which seems to be Martinez-Lite's managerial style: hope for the best.

Its simple. unless Arteta tries Martinelli upfront we wont be finishing top 4.

Some are saying its a risk as its unproven. And yes, it is a risk, but at least there unknown upside potential with playing Martinelli down the middle. Where as with the French cart horse you know your getting no penetration.

Also, given the disruption to the fullbacks and Partey, I would change the formation to a back 3

-----------------------Ramsdale-------------------------------
-----------Holding-------White------Gabriel---------------
Cedric------------------------------------------------------Saka
-------------------ASL--------------Xhaka---------
----------Odegaard--------------------------ERS----------------
--------------------------Martinelli---------------------------------


Without Partey and our first choice fullbacks we cant keep it tight at the back. We are 5-1 down on aggregate since the injury crisis against Palace and Brighton. We simply need more protection at the back. Saka is also going to play for the team and revert back to his LWB days.

Arteta simply needs to be bold, and playing Xhaka at left back isnt bold, its fuckng stupid, as is playing one of ESR/Odegaard as a central idfielder.

if 4-2-3-1 continues with Lacazette as the 1 they its already over

I'm obviously never going to agree with playing Clive anywhere and would prefer we played with 10 men rather than that complete fucking waste of oxygen.

Regarding Martinelli, there is no guarantee he can adapt to play centrally but I'd certainly try him there as Lacazette is contributing nothing so anything Martinelli might achieve would be an improvement.

The problem with that though is Martinelli has gone on record stating he is a left sided wide player and that he sees that as his favoured position. The risk is he will (like Henry did) tend to subconsciously drift out wide left into his comfort zone too often when we need him in the middle.

This is where Martinez-Lite could win a few doubters over by having the balls to put Martinelli in the centre and give it a go. Personally I don't think he has the balls to do it.

[Nos89]

We lost two games in November, dropped Aubameyang went unbeaten run of 9 games. Lost against city and forest, another unbeaten run of 9 games, winning 5 away. We can go again. Time to drop Lacazette and go with either nketiah up front, or my favoured option martinelli, Saka on the left, Pepe on the right, EsR in the middle. Tavares did well at the start of the season and he can do again. We play 3-4-3 bring in Elneny for his experience for a game or two. Go on another unbeaten run. We've made progress this year, anyone who can't see that watches too much Sky Sports news, and AFTV.

[SteveO 35]

We lost two games in November, dropped Aubameyang went unbeaten run of 9 games. Lost against city and forest, another unbeaten run of 9 games, winning 5 away. We can go again. Time to drop Lacazette and go with either nketiah up front, or my favoured option martinelli, Saka on the left, Pepe on the right, EsR in the middle. Tavares did well at the start of the season and he can do again. We play 3-4-3 bring in Elneny for his experience for a game or two. Go on another unbeaten run. We've made progress this year, anyone who can't see that watches too much Sky Sports news, and AFTV.

We are firmly back to playing the sterile, slow paced shit we played for the first two thirds of last season mate. Nice fighting talk but this team have lost every shred of confidence from those previous runs. If there was going to be a reaction it needed to be vs Brighton

Concentrate on getting a Europa Conference place now

[augie]

We lost two games in November, dropped Aubameyang went unbeaten run of 9 games. Lost against city and forest, another unbeaten run of 9 games, winning 5 away. We can go again. Time to drop Lacazette and go with either nketiah up front, or my favoured option martinelli, Saka on the left, Pepe on the right, EsR in the middle. Tavares did well at the start of the season and he can do again. We play 3-4-3 bring in Elneny for his experience for a game or two. Go on another unbeaten run. We've made progress this year, anyone who can't see that watches too much Sky Sports news, and AFTV.

You seriously, and I mean seriously need to check your facts - the last game we lost in November was on November 20th when we got our arses handed to us by the victims, then we won one game against the barcodes before losing back to back games against manure (Dec 2nd) and everton (Dec 6th), both who were on a bad run of results at that time. How does that equate to a 9 game unbeaten run ??
After the forest cup defeat we drew with the victims away in the league cup, before losing our next game which was the second leg. We then went on a 6 game unbeaten run (inc in that was a pathetic home draw v burnley, and a scrapped win against watford), before losing to the victims again. We followed up that defeat to the victims with one win before losing our last 2 games.

A few pointers out of that -

1. There wasnt one 9 match unbeaten run much less two.
2. In that 6 game unbeaten run, our games were two games against wolves plus games against Leicester, brentford, burnley, watford - with the exception of the wolves games, none of them were against good or in form teams
3. Those unbeaten runs (5 games and 6 games) which you refer to included just one game against a Top 7 team (they are the ones in contention for top 4) - you still have to win those games, and you can only beat what is in front of you, but sometimes stats like unbeaten runs dont tell the full story even when they are accurate

[DB10GOONER]

We lost two games in November, dropped Aubameyang went unbeaten run of 9 games. Lost against city and forest, another unbeaten run of 9 games, winning 5 away. We can go again. Time to drop Lacazette and go with either nketiah up front, or my favoured option martinelli, Saka on the left, Pepe on the right, EsR in the middle. Tavares did well at the start of the season and he can do again. We play 3-4-3 bring in Elneny for his experience for a game or two. Go on another unbeaten run. We've made progress this year, anyone who can't see that watches too much Sky Sports news, and AFTV.

You seriously, and I mean seriously need to check your facts - the last game we lost in November was on November 20th when we got our arses handed to us by the victims, then we won one game against the barcodes before losing back to back games against manure (Dec 2nd) and everton (Dec 6th), both who were on a bad run of results at that time. How does that equate to a 9 game unbeaten run ??
After the forest cup defeat we drew with the victims away in the league cup, before losing our next game which was the second leg. We then went on a 6 game unbeaten run (inc in that was a pathetic home draw v burnley, and a scrapped win against watford), before losing to the victims again. We followed up that defeat to the victims with one win before losing our last 2 games.

A few pointers out of that -

1. There wasnt one 9 match unbeaten run much less two.
2. In that 6 game unbeaten run, our games were two games against wolves plus games against Leicester, brentford, burnley, watford - with the exception of the wolves games, none of them were against good or in form teams
3. Those unbeaten runs (5 games and 6 games) which you refer to included just one game against a Top 7 team (they are the ones in contention for top 4) - you still have to win those games, and you can only beat what is in front of you, but sometimes stats like unbeaten runs dont tell the full story even when they are accurate

That's why I always say quantitative stats are not worth shit in a conversation about something like football where qualitative info is required. They can be twisted to "prove" any wrong argument.

[augie]

We lost two games in November, dropped Aubameyang went unbeaten run of 9 games. Lost against city and forest, another unbeaten run of 9 games, winning 5 away. We can go again. Time to drop Lacazette and go with either nketiah up front, or my favoured option martinelli, Saka on the left, Pepe on the right, EsR in the middle. Tavares did well at the start of the season and he can do again. We play 3-4-3 bring in Elneny for his experience for a game or two. Go on another unbeaten run. We've made progress this year, anyone who can't see that watches too much Sky Sports news, and AFTV.

You seriously, and I mean seriously need to check your facts - the last game we lost in November was on November 20th when we got our arses handed to us by the victims, then we won one game against the barcodes before losing back to back games against manure (Dec 2nd) and everton (Dec 6th), both who were on a bad run of results at that time. How does that equate to a 9 game unbeaten run ??
After the forest cup defeat we drew with the victims away in the league cup, before losing our next game which was the second leg. We then went on a 6 game unbeaten run (inc in that was a pathetic home draw v burnley, and a scrapped win against watford), before losing to the victims again. We followed up that defeat to the victims with one win before losing our last 2 games.

A few pointers out of that -

1. There wasnt one 9 match unbeaten run much less two.
2. In that 6 game unbeaten run, our games were two games against wolves plus games against Leicester, brentford, burnley, watford - with the exception of the wolves games, none of them were against good or in form teams
3. Those unbeaten runs (5 games and 6 games) which you refer to included just one game against a Top 7 team (they are the ones in contention for top 4) - you still have to win those games, and you can only beat what is in front of you, but sometimes stats like unbeaten runs dont tell the full story even when they are accurate

That's why I always say quantitative stats are not worth shit in a conversation about something like football where qualitative info is required. They can be twisted to "prove" any wrong argument.

Even more so when the two 9 game unbeaten runs are a figment of somebodies imagination

[SteveO 35]

One thing's for sure, there hasn't been a 22 game unbeaten run for some time now

[arrgee]

Its simple. unless Arteta tries Martinelli upfront we wont be finishing top 4.

Some are saying its a risk as its unproven. And yes, it is a risk, but at least there unknown upside potential with playing Martinelli down the middle. Where as with the French cart horse you know your getting no penetration.

Also, given the disruption to the fullbacks and Partey, I would change the formation to a back 3

-----------------------Ramsdale-------------------------------
-----------Holding-------White------Gabriel---------------
Cedric------------------------------------------------------Saka
-------------------ASL--------------Xhaka---------
----------Odegaard--------------------------ERS----------------
--------------------------Martinelli---------------------------------


Without Partey and our first choice fullbacks we cant keep it tight at the back. We are 5-1 down on aggregate since the injury crisis against Palace and Brighton. We simply need more protection at the back. Saka is also going to play for the team and revert back to his LWB days.

Arteta simply needs to be bold, and playing Xhaka at left back isnt bold, its fuckng stupid, as is playing one of ESR/Odegaard as a central idfielder.

if 4-2-3-1 continues with Lacazette as the 1 they its already over

I'm obviously never going to agree with playing Clive anywhere and would prefer we played with 10 men rather than that complete fucking waste of oxygen.

Regarding Martinelli, there is no guarantee he can adapt to play centrally but I'd certainly try him there as Lacazette is contributing nothing so anything Martinelli might achieve would be an improvement.

The problem with that though is Martinelli has gone on record stating he is a left sided wide player and that he sees that as his favoured position. The risk is he will (like Henry did) tend to subconsciously drift out wide left into his comfort zone too often when we need him in the middle.

This is where Martinez-Lite could win a few doubters over by having the balls to put Martinelli in the centre and give it a go. Personally I don't think he has the balls to do it.

I would take Xhakash!t out of the first XI and put in Elneny as the only deep lying central midfielder in front of a back 3 including Holding. Moving Saka to Left Wing Half and Cedric on the right seems to be the best way of accommodating that. Then it would be Odegaard, Smith Rowe, Martinelli and another (Pepe, Nketiah, Lackofgoals). At least it would make Arsenal more solid and give the attacking players licence to go forward and do whatever they can. Odegaard and Smith Rowe were far too deep against Brighton.

However, an injury or two and there is no back up. Currently only two subs are being made as there is nothing else to make any difference from the bench.

[arrgee]

One thing's for sure, there hasn't been a 22 game unbeaten run for some time now

Be happy with an eight game unbeaten run from here on in
Will have to beat scum as part of that to make top 4. Can probably afford a couple of draws assuming scum don’t beat victims*.