Welcome Declan Rice

[nut flush gooner]

Totally different era, team formations and Paddy was a freak. If you look at his stats this season Rice has stepped up a level from his Worst Ham days. I looked on Fbref with a gooner pal this morning. His passing accuracy is 91%. That is elite. He also covered more ground than any other player.

There was a pass he threaded through to Eddie that had a bit of DB10 about it. I want Partey to play DM stop all this RB bollocks then allow Rice to play the 8 further up the pitch. Then I have no doubt he will impact games offensively more and have the engine to get back and support Partey when we are under pressure.

I've absolutely no idea what Fbref is, but I wouldn't get too carried away about stats such as 91% pass accuracy. Unless you see those passes, it really tells you very little, because if they're mainly simple 5-10 yard sideways and backwards passes, then you'd expect those numbers. I remember Wenger saying very similar things about Denilson and his pass count / accuracy, but he was hardly elite. I did notice the ball he played through to Eddie, very good too, but I'm hoping for quite a bit more than one non standard pass in a game.

As for formations, elite players shine regardless and Paddy would have been just as impressive amongst this group. I'm not expecting Rice to be Paddy, because that ain't ever gonna happen and would be a very unfair expectation, but it takes a lot more than that performance last night to equal elite in my book.

I think you can forget about him playing in a more advanced role for quite some time yet. Barring injury, Legohead isn't moving Partey back into defensive mid and Rice further forward, because that means benching blue eyed boy Havertz and that won't be happening. If Havertz gets injured you might get your wish. Until such time, Granit Havertz is da man.

You clearly can't have been watching the game because you missed according to sky sports eight instances where Rice played the ball forwards under pressure, and 18 instances where he played the ball in the final third and found his man.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... palace-win

And you ignore what football stat sites like FBref show, well you clearly don't understand data analytics then. It's what Tony Bloom has used and executed to get Brighton from the fourth tier of English football to the top of the PL. Rinsing the likes of Chelski along the way to the tune of £200m+ buying prospects for £5m and selling them for £115m. Bloom runs a company called Starlizard, based right under the nose of the Emirates stadium in Camden, a highly secretive organisation that uses data analytics to scout the best players in the world. And also place bets for high net worth individuals in the Asian Handicap markets in Hong Kong.

I suppose I can't shake the old saying "Lies, damned lies and statistics". They have their place for sure, but as a sole judge of a player, not so much. I remember Wenger being very much a stat man and buying a load of crap players because of it. Stats are all well and good, but you need to watch the guy play to understand those figures. As for playing 18 passes in the final third and finding his man, so what? That means nothing in isolation. Were 10 of them 3 yard passes, or were they searching incisions that made a difference? Funny how you and I both noticed the incisive pass he made to Eddie, which was from the middle third of the pitch. Can you remember any of the 18 in the final third? Me neither.

The bloke did ok, but to be hyping it up like it was a stellar performance shows how low our bar has fallen. Not being Xhaka doesn't make him Chippy Brady.

As for Tony Bloom, you've really worried me now. With such forensic statistical incite, one would have imagined he'd have beaten a fast path to sign Rice and Havertz. Does he know something we don't??

Exactly how I view stats. And in football you cannot use quantitative stats without a qualitative basis.

Wenger used the same bullshit stats to show that the useless donkey Denilson had the highest pass completion rate in the PL at 98% all the while ignoring the fact that 90% of those "completed passes" were either 5 yard nothing balls to Alex Mong or 5 yarders back to the CH or they were sloppy passes that the receiving player had to struggle to get on the end of.... but those shit passes were also classified as "complete".

I'd rather a player play one decent completed pass that ends up with an assist for a goal than he play 30 "completed passes" that mean nothing.

Quality over quantity is what determines "elite".

As a project manager I work with stats every day and you can make quantitive stats say almost anything you want them too. But once you qualify them it's nearly always a different story.

I like Oirish Deckers and I think he will be a success with us but he is nowhere near "elite" yet. But some day he may well be.

Well Tony Bloom has proven you wrong DB10, and a lot of other people in football.

You don't become a self made billionaire and structure your whole life around the application of data in different settings be it poker, gambling or football unless you do something that is on a different level to your peers. There is a very good article written by the Athletic about it, and countless pieces on social media including You tube about his history. Starlizard is a very secretive company that employs over 100 people in the heart of North London, every member of staff is sworn to keeping the methods that the company uses to turn over hundreds of millions each year. Look at the website, if you work with data there really isn't a lot to gleen.

https://theathletic.com/1678274/2020/03 ... -gambling/

Their recruitment process revolves around quantitive analysis and its only when certain metrics are met, that they decide to follow up and take a closer look at a particular player. It's no coincidence that a club of a similar stature Brentford are also punching above their weight using similar methods to Brighton. The only reason they can do this, is their owner was a former business partner of Bloom, they fell out but clearly he is clever enough to apply similar methods in Brentfords recruitment process.

Just yesterday we were linked with a move for Evan Ferguson next summer, £100m for an 18 year old. Brighton already took the piss out of Boehly and made him look like a mug over Caicedo, paying £15m more than he needed to when he thought he would get Caicedo for £80m. Last weekends West Ham game was pure comedy with Caicedo conceding a penalty. No big club has been able to replicate what Brighton does, as long as that continues, there is a very good chance they will establish themselves in the Division giving big clubs a bloody nose both on and off the pitch.

Going back to Rice, its ok I understand that the agenda has already started against him, so when you present statistical analysis its always what the eye sees over what the figures show. And on this forum I am not surprised that people always like to go against the grain, even if what the majority has seen is we have a gem in Rice that adds tons of value to the club. He was the MOM on Monday, the stand out player, I don't care what pundits say I make my own mind up. Just waiting for a derogatory nickname for Rice now, because that's how people on this forum love to push their confirmation bias.

Let the games come, I have no doubt the noises will be drowned out by the acceptance by the broader fanbase we have recruited a star.

[TeeCee]

Rice had a great game against Palace and his enthusiasm and joy at winning is really refreshing to see. He's learning a lot about how we play..... as are the rest of the team with Arteta's tinkering, but I'm convinced, and always have been, that he is going to be a massively successful signing for the Arsenal.

[wibble]

Not sure where you’re coming from NFG as the vast majority on here have been singing Rice’s praises

[nut flush gooner]

Not sure where you’re coming from NFG as the vast majority on here have been singing Rice’s praises

Read through some of the comments on this thread.

[wibble]

Not sure where you’re coming from NFG as the vast majority on here have been singing Rice’s praises

Read through some of the comments on this thread.

Lots of negativity before he played but lots of positive comments since.
For what it’s worth I voted that I wanted us to sign him and I think he’ll be a very good player for us

[OneBardGooner]

Rice had a great game against Palace and his enthusiasm and joy at winning is really refreshing to see. He's learning a lot about how we play..... as are the rest of the team with Arteta's tinkering, but I'm convinced, and always have been, that he is going to be a massively successful signing for the Arsenal.

Ditto!

[DB10GOONER]

I've absolutely no idea what Fbref is, but I wouldn't get too carried away about stats such as 91% pass accuracy. Unless you see those passes, it really tells you very little, because if they're mainly simple 5-10 yard sideways and backwards passes, then you'd expect those numbers. I remember Wenger saying very similar things about Denilson and his pass count / accuracy, but he was hardly elite. I did notice the ball he played through to Eddie, very good too, but I'm hoping for quite a bit more than one non standard pass in a game.

As for formations, elite players shine regardless and Paddy would have been just as impressive amongst this group. I'm not expecting Rice to be Paddy, because that ain't ever gonna happen and would be a very unfair expectation, but it takes a lot more than that performance last night to equal elite in my book.

I think you can forget about him playing in a more advanced role for quite some time yet. Barring injury, Legohead isn't moving Partey back into defensive mid and Rice further forward, because that means benching blue eyed boy Havertz and that won't be happening. If Havertz gets injured you might get your wish. Until such time, Granit Havertz is da man.

You clearly can't have been watching the game because you missed according to sky sports eight instances where Rice played the ball forwards under pressure, and 18 instances where he played the ball in the final third and found his man.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... palace-win

And you ignore what football stat sites like FBref show, well you clearly don't understand data analytics then. It's what Tony Bloom has used and executed to get Brighton from the fourth tier of English football to the top of the PL. Rinsing the likes of Chelski along the way to the tune of £200m+ buying prospects for £5m and selling them for £115m. Bloom runs a company called Starlizard, based right under the nose of the Emirates stadium in Camden, a highly secretive organisation that uses data analytics to scout the best players in the world. And also place bets for high net worth individuals in the Asian Handicap markets in Hong Kong.

I suppose I can't shake the old saying "Lies, damned lies and statistics". They have their place for sure, but as a sole judge of a player, not so much. I remember Wenger being very much a stat man and buying a load of crap players because of it. Stats are all well and good, but you need to watch the guy play to understand those figures. As for playing 18 passes in the final third and finding his man, so what? That means nothing in isolation. Were 10 of them 3 yard passes, or were they searching incisions that made a difference? Funny how you and I both noticed the incisive pass he made to Eddie, which was from the middle third of the pitch. Can you remember any of the 18 in the final third? Me neither.

The bloke did ok, but to be hyping it up like it was a stellar performance shows how low our bar has fallen. Not being Xhaka doesn't make him Chippy Brady.

As for Tony Bloom, you've really worried me now. With such forensic statistical incite, one would have imagined he'd have beaten a fast path to sign Rice and Havertz. Does he know something we don't??

Exactly how I view stats. And in football you cannot use quantitative stats without a qualitative basis.

Wenger used the same bullshit stats to show that the useless donkey Denilson had the highest pass completion rate in the PL at 98% all the while ignoring the fact that 90% of those "completed passes" were either 5 yard nothing balls to Alex Mong or 5 yarders back to the CH or they were sloppy passes that the receiving player had to struggle to get on the end of.... but those shit passes were also classified as "complete".

I'd rather a player play one decent completed pass that ends up with an assist for a goal than he play 30 "completed passes" that mean nothing.

Quality over quantity is what determines "elite".

As a project manager I work with stats every day and you can make quantitive stats say almost anything you want them too. But once you qualify them it's nearly always a different story.

I like Oirish Deckers and I think he will be a success with us but he is nowhere near "elite" yet. But some day he may well be.

Well Tony Bloom has proven you wrong DB10, and a lot of other people in football.

You don't become a self made billionaire and structure your whole life around the application of data in different settings be it poker, gambling or football unless you do something that is on a different level to your peers. There is a very good article written by the Athletic about it, and countless pieces on social media including You tube about his history. Starlizard is a very secretive company that employs over 100 people in the heart of North London, every member of staff is sworn to keeping the methods that the company uses to turn over hundreds of millions each year. Look at the website, if you work with data there really isn't a lot to gleen.

https://theathletic.com/1678274/2020/03 ... -gambling/

Their recruitment process revolves around quantitive analysis and its only when certain metrics are met, that they decide to follow up and take a closer look at a particular player. It's no coincidence that a club of a similar stature Brentford are also punching above their weight using similar methods to Brighton. The only reason they can do this, is their owner was a former business partner of Bloom, they fell out but clearly he is clever enough to apply similar methods in Brentfords recruitment process.

Just yesterday we were linked with a move for Evan Ferguson next summer, £100m for an 18 year old. Brighton already took the piss out of Boehly and made him look like a mug over Caicedo, paying £15m more than he needed to when he thought he would get Caicedo for £80m. Last weekends West Ham game was pure comedy with Caicedo conceding a penalty. No big club has been able to replicate what Brighton does, as long as that continues, there is a very good chance they will establish themselves in the Division giving big clubs a bloody nose both on and off the pitch.

Going back to Rice, its ok I understand that the agenda has already started against him, so when you present statistical analysis its always what the eye sees over what the figures show. And on this forum I am not surprised that people always like to go against the grain, even if what the majority has seen is we have a gem in Rice that adds tons of value to the club. He was the MOM on Monday, the stand out player, I don't care what pundits say I make my own mind up. Just waiting for a derogatory nickname for Rice now, because that's how people on this forum love to push their confirmation bias.

Let the games come, I have no doubt the noises will be drowned out by the acceptance by the broader fanbase we have recruited a star.

I can guarantee you the secretive bit that company uses is the qualitative element of the stats. They are not working on Quantitive stats alone. Not a chance. That's why he is so paranoid and adamant about keeping it secret. Once the qualitative element is known, any idiot can do it. You'll also find he has brilliant PR in place to keep the millions he will have lost on failed predictions quiet.

What I cannot understand is this "agenda" horseshit accusation again. If everyone isn't going hysterically overboard blindly singing the praises of everything Arsenal then it's an agenda.... its not. It is people providing balanced opinion. You called Rice "elite" because he had 18 passes in a game. Not everyone agrees with you.

If he plays well he will be praised on here. If he plays shit he will be slaughtered and deserve to be. This forum was set up to be like a pub that football fans go to. It reflects every football pub I've ever been in very accurately.

[DB10GOONER]

Not sure where you’re coming from NFG as the vast majority on here have been singing Rice’s praises

Absolutely. But apparently it's an agenda if you don't rate every Arsenal player as a genius....

[Natural Born Gooner]

Was massively underwhelmed by his signing, especially with the fee involved but was quietly impressed by his performance against Palace.

Hoping he keeps it up and pushes us up another level or two!

[Retro Gunner]

You clearly can't have been watching the game because you missed according to sky sports eight instances where Rice played the ball forwards under pressure, and 18 instances where he played the ball in the final third and found his man.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... palace-win

And you ignore what football stat sites like FBref show, well you clearly don't understand data analytics then. It's what Tony Bloom has used and executed to get Brighton from the fourth tier of English football to the top of the PL. Rinsing the likes of Chelski along the way to the tune of £200m+ buying prospects for £5m and selling them for £115m. Bloom runs a company called Starlizard, based right under the nose of the Emirates stadium in Camden, a highly secretive organisation that uses data analytics to scout the best players in the world. And also place bets for high net worth individuals in the Asian Handicap markets in Hong Kong.

I suppose I can't shake the old saying "Lies, damned lies and statistics". They have their place for sure, but as a sole judge of a player, not so much. I remember Wenger being very much a stat man and buying a load of crap players because of it. Stats are all well and good, but you need to watch the guy play to understand those figures. As for playing 18 passes in the final third and finding his man, so what? That means nothing in isolation. Were 10 of them 3 yard passes, or were they searching incisions that made a difference? Funny how you and I both noticed the incisive pass he made to Eddie, which was from the middle third of the pitch. Can you remember any of the 18 in the final third? Me neither.

The bloke did ok, but to be hyping it up like it was a stellar performance shows how low our bar has fallen. Not being Xhaka doesn't make him Chippy Brady.

As for Tony Bloom, you've really worried me now. With such forensic statistical incite, one would have imagined he'd have beaten a fast path to sign Rice and Havertz. Does he know something we don't??

Exactly how I view stats. And in football you cannot use quantitative stats without a qualitative basis.

Wenger used the same bullshit stats to show that the useless donkey Denilson had the highest pass completion rate in the PL at 98% all the while ignoring the fact that 90% of those "completed passes" were either 5 yard nothing balls to Alex Mong or 5 yarders back to the CH or they were sloppy passes that the receiving player had to struggle to get on the end of.... but those shit passes were also classified as "complete".

I'd rather a player play one decent completed pass that ends up with an assist for a goal than he play 30 "completed passes" that mean nothing.

Quality over quantity is what determines "elite".

As a project manager I work with stats every day and you can make quantitive stats say almost anything you want them too. But once you qualify them it's nearly always a different story.

I like Oirish Deckers and I think he will be a success with us but he is nowhere near "elite" yet. But some day he may well be.

Well Tony Bloom has proven you wrong DB10, and a lot of other people in football.

You don't become a self made billionaire and structure your whole life around the application of data in different settings be it poker, gambling or football unless you do something that is on a different level to your peers. There is a very good article written by the Athletic about it, and countless pieces on social media including You tube about his history. Starlizard is a very secretive company that employs over 100 people in the heart of North London, every member of staff is sworn to keeping the methods that the company uses to turn over hundreds of millions each year. Look at the website, if you work with data there really isn't a lot to gleen.

https://theathletic.com/1678274/2020/03 ... -gambling/

Their recruitment process revolves around quantitive analysis and its only when certain metrics are met, that they decide to follow up and take a closer look at a particular player. It's no coincidence that a club of a similar stature Brentford are also punching above their weight using similar methods to Brighton. The only reason they can do this, is their owner was a former business partner of Bloom, they fell out but clearly he is clever enough to apply similar methods in Brentfords recruitment process.

Just yesterday we were linked with a move for Evan Ferguson next summer, £100m for an 18 year old. Brighton already took the piss out of Boehly and made him look like a mug over Caicedo, paying £15m more than he needed to when he thought he would get Caicedo for £80m. Last weekends West Ham game was pure comedy with Caicedo conceding a penalty. No big club has been able to replicate what Brighton does, as long as that continues, there is a very good chance they will establish themselves in the Division giving big clubs a bloody nose both on and off the pitch.

Going back to Rice, its ok I understand that the agenda has already started against him, so when you present statistical analysis its always what the eye sees over what the figures show. And on this forum I am not surprised that people always like to go against the grain, even if what the majority has seen is we have a gem in Rice that adds tons of value to the club. He was the MOM on Monday, the stand out player, I don't care what pundits say I make my own mind up. Just waiting for a derogatory nickname for Rice now, because that's how people on this forum love to push their confirmation bias.

Let the games come, I have no doubt the noises will be drowned out by the acceptance by the broader fanbase we have recruited a star.

I can guarantee you the secretive bit that company uses is the qualitative element of the stats. They are not working on Quantitive stats alone. Not a chance. That's why he is so paranoid and adamant about keeping it secret. Once the qualitative element is known, any idiot can do it. You'll also find he has brilliant PR in place to keep the millions he will have lost on failed predictions quiet.

What I cannot understand is this "agenda" horseshit accusation again. If everyone isn't going hysterically overboard blindly singing the praises of everything Arsenal then it's an agenda.... its not. It is people providing balanced opinion. You called Rice "elite" because he had 18 passes in a game. Not everyone agrees with you.

If he plays well he will be praised on here. If he plays shit he will be slaughtered and deserve to be. This forum was set up to be like a pub that football fans go to. It reflects every football pub I've ever been in very accurately.

Good, I was relying on you posting a response because I had neither time nor energy. Stats are fascinating and can be used to great effect and no doubt to make money as Bloom has done (I'm assuming they're a key part of trading algorithms etc?), but, you need stats about stats to work out the qualitative aspect. Where's the detail about those 18 successful passes in the final third? We both made the point about Wenger telling us all that Denilson had the league's highest completed pass rate, yet watching a game and his 5 yard nothing passes told you that he had fuck all to offer.

[Retro Gunner]

[/quote]

Well Tony Bloom has proven you wrong DB10, and a lot of other people in football.

You don't become a self made billionaire and structure your whole life around the application of data in different settings be it poker, gambling or football unless you do something that is on a different level to your peers. There is a very good article written by the Athletic about it, and countless pieces on social media including You tube about his history. Starlizard is a very secretive company that employs over 100 people in the heart of North London, every member of staff is sworn to keeping the methods that the company uses to turn over hundreds of millions each year. Look at the website, if you work with data there really isn't a lot to gleen.

https://theathletic.com/1678274/2020/03 ... -gambling/

Their recruitment process revolves around quantitive analysis and its only when certain metrics are met, that they decide to follow up and take a closer look at a particular player. It's no coincidence that a club of a similar stature Brentford are also punching above their weight using similar methods to Brighton. The only reason they can do this, is their owner was a former business partner of Bloom, they fell out but clearly he is clever enough to apply similar methods in Brentfords recruitment process.

Just yesterday we were linked with a move for Evan Ferguson next summer, £100m for an 18 year old. Brighton already took the piss out of Boehly and made him look like a mug over Caicedo, paying £15m more than he needed to when he thought he would get Caicedo for £80m. Last weekends West Ham game was pure comedy with Caicedo conceding a penalty. No big club has been able to replicate what Brighton does, as long as that continues, there is a very good chance they will establish themselves in the Division giving big clubs a bloody nose both on and off the pitch.

Going back to Rice, its ok I understand that the agenda has already started against him, so when you present statistical analysis its always what the eye sees over what the figures show. And on this forum I am not surprised that people always like to go against the grain, even if what the majority has seen is we have a gem in Rice that adds tons of value to the club. He was the MOM on Monday, the stand out player, I don't care what pundits say I make my own mind up. Just waiting for a derogatory nickname for Rice now, because that's how people on this forum love to push their confirmation bias.

Let the games come, I have no doubt the noises will be drowned out by the acceptance by the broader fanbase we have recruited a star.
[/quote]



Against my better judgement, try as I might, I couldn't stop myself responding to the bit in red.

Nut flush, when a few of us questioned the fee for Rice and said we'd well overpaid, you asked why we were worried about what we were spending and that it was irrelevant in modern day football, which was soon to become just like the NFL. Yet you now think that Boehly has been made to look a mug by overpaying for Caicedo. Don't the theories you apply to us also apply to the chavs?

[nut flush gooner]

Well Tony Bloom has proven you wrong DB10, and a lot of other people in football.

You don't become a self made billionaire and structure your whole life around the application of data in different settings be it poker, gambling or football unless you do something that is on a different level to your peers. There is a very good article written by the Athletic about it, and countless pieces on social media including You tube about his history. Starlizard is a very secretive company that employs over 100 people in the heart of North London, every member of staff is sworn to keeping the methods that the company uses to turn over hundreds of millions each year. Look at the website, if you work with data there really isn't a lot to gleen.

https://theathletic.com/1678274/2020/03 ... -gambling/

Their recruitment process revolves around quantitive analysis and its only when certain metrics are met, that they decide to follow up and take a closer look at a particular player. It's no coincidence that a club of a similar stature Brentford are also punching above their weight using similar methods to Brighton. The only reason they can do this, is their owner was a former business partner of Bloom, they fell out but clearly he is clever enough to apply similar methods in Brentfords recruitment process.

Just yesterday we were linked with a move for Evan Ferguson next summer, £100m for an 18 year old. Brighton already took the piss out of Boehly and made him look like a mug over Caicedo, paying £15m more than he needed to when he thought he would get Caicedo for £80m. Last weekends West Ham game was pure comedy with Caicedo conceding a penalty. No big club has been able to replicate what Brighton does, as long as that continues, there is a very good chance they will establish themselves in the Division giving big clubs a bloody nose both on and off the pitch.

Going back to Rice, its ok I understand that the agenda has already started against him, so when you present statistical analysis its always what the eye sees over what the figures show. And on this forum I am not surprised that people always like to go against the grain, even if what the majority has seen is we have a gem in Rice that adds tons of value to the club. He was the MOM on Monday, the stand out player, I don't care what pundits say I make my own mind up. Just waiting for a derogatory nickname for Rice now, because that's how people on this forum love to push their confirmation bias.

Let the games come, I have no doubt the noises will be drowned out by the acceptance by the broader fanbase we have recruited a star.
[/quote]



Against my better judgement, try as I might, I couldn't stop myself responding to the bit in red.

Nut flush, when a few of us questioned the fee for Rice and said we'd well overpaid, you asked why we were worried about what we were spending and that it was irrelevant in modern day football, which was soon to become just like the NFL. Yet you now think that Boehly has been made to look a mug by overpaying for Caicedo. Don't the theories you apply to us also apply to the chavs?
[/quote]

Of course he has, Chelski dithered for over a month with Caicedo.

The bar was set at £100m, they could have got their man for £15m less. Bloom set the wheels in motion for a timed auction, Liverpool threw their hat into the ring at £110m, Caicedo didn't want to join them, and Chelski came back with their £115m bid.

There is absolutely no comparison with the way their deal panned out to ours. We where told that Rice would cost upwards of £100m, and we offered exactly that in the end. If you think Chelsea wernt played then more fool you, sorry. Again you need to do a bit of research about Tony Bloom before you make such comments. The guy was born with nothing, and its totally self made.

[nut flush gooner]

You clearly can't have been watching the game because you missed according to sky sports eight instances where Rice played the ball forwards under pressure, and 18 instances where he played the ball in the final third and found his man.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... palace-win

And you ignore what football stat sites like FBref show, well you clearly don't understand data analytics then. It's what Tony Bloom has used and executed to get Brighton from the fourth tier of English football to the top of the PL. Rinsing the likes of Chelski along the way to the tune of £200m+ buying prospects for £5m and selling them for £115m. Bloom runs a company called Starlizard, based right under the nose of the Emirates stadium in Camden, a highly secretive organisation that uses data analytics to scout the best players in the world. And also place bets for high net worth individuals in the Asian Handicap markets in Hong Kong.

I suppose I can't shake the old saying "Lies, damned lies and statistics". They have their place for sure, but as a sole judge of a player, not so much. I remember Wenger being very much a stat man and buying a load of crap players because of it. Stats are all well and good, but you need to watch the guy play to understand those figures. As for playing 18 passes in the final third and finding his man, so what? That means nothing in isolation. Were 10 of them 3 yard passes, or were they searching incisions that made a difference? Funny how you and I both noticed the incisive pass he made to Eddie, which was from the middle third of the pitch. Can you remember any of the 18 in the final third? Me neither.

The bloke did ok, but to be hyping it up like it was a stellar performance shows how low our bar has fallen. Not being Xhaka doesn't make him Chippy Brady.

As for Tony Bloom, you've really worried me now. With such forensic statistical incite, one would have imagined he'd have beaten a fast path to sign Rice and Havertz. Does he know something we don't??

Exactly how I view stats. And in football you cannot use quantitative stats without a qualitative basis.

Wenger used the same bullshit stats to show that the useless donkey Denilson had the highest pass completion rate in the PL at 98% all the while ignoring the fact that 90% of those "completed passes" were either 5 yard nothing balls to Alex Mong or 5 yarders back to the CH or they were sloppy passes that the receiving player had to struggle to get on the end of.... but those shit passes were also classified as "complete".

I'd rather a player play one decent completed pass that ends up with an assist for a goal than he play 30 "completed passes" that mean nothing.

Quality over quantity is what determines "elite".

As a project manager I work with stats every day and you can make quantitive stats say almost anything you want them too. But once you qualify them it's nearly always a different story.

I like Oirish Deckers and I think he will be a success with us but he is nowhere near "elite" yet. But some day he may well be.

Well Tony Bloom has proven you wrong DB10, and a lot of other people in football.

You don't become a self made billionaire and structure your whole life around the application of data in different settings be it poker, gambling or football unless you do something that is on a different level to your peers. There is a very good article written by the Athletic about it, and countless pieces on social media including You tube about his history. Starlizard is a very secretive company that employs over 100 people in the heart of North London, every member of staff is sworn to keeping the methods that the company uses to turn over hundreds of millions each year. Look at the website, if you work with data there really isn't a lot to gleen.

https://theathletic.com/1678274/2020/03 ... -gambling/

Their recruitment process revolves around quantitive analysis and its only when certain metrics are met, that they decide to follow up and take a closer look at a particular player. It's no coincidence that a club of a similar stature Brentford are also punching above their weight using similar methods to Brighton. The only reason they can do this, is their owner was a former business partner of Bloom, they fell out but clearly he is clever enough to apply similar methods in Brentfords recruitment process.

Just yesterday we were linked with a move for Evan Ferguson next summer, £100m for an 18 year old. Brighton already took the piss out of Boehly and made him look like a mug over Caicedo, paying £15m more than he needed to when he thought he would get Caicedo for £80m. Last weekends West Ham game was pure comedy with Caicedo conceding a penalty. No big club has been able to replicate what Brighton does, as long as that continues, there is a very good chance they will establish themselves in the Division giving big clubs a bloody nose both on and off the pitch.

Going back to Rice, its ok I understand that the agenda has already started against him, so when you present statistical analysis its always what the eye sees over what the figures show. And on this forum I am not surprised that people always like to go against the grain, even if what the majority has seen is we have a gem in Rice that adds tons of value to the club. He was the MOM on Monday, the stand out player, I don't care what pundits say I make my own mind up. Just waiting for a derogatory nickname for Rice now, because that's how people on this forum love to push their confirmation bias.

Let the games come, I have no doubt the noises will be drowned out by the acceptance by the broader fanbase we have recruited a star.

I can guarantee you the secretive bit that company uses is the qualitative element of the stats. They are not working on Quantitive stats alone. Not a chance. That's why he is so paranoid and adamant about keeping it secret. Once the qualitative element is known, any idiot can do it. You'll also find he has brilliant PR in place to keep the millions he will have lost on failed predictions quiet.

What I cannot understand is this "agenda" horseshit accusation again. If everyone isn't going hysterically overboard blindly singing the praises of everything Arsenal then it's an agenda.... its not. It is people providing balanced opinion. You called Rice "elite" because he had 18 passes in a game. Not everyone agrees with you.

If he plays well he will be praised on here. If he plays shit he will be slaughtered and deserve to be. This forum was set up to be like a pub that football fans go to. It reflects every football pub I've ever been in very accurately.

If you built a company that had systems that allowed you to beat the Asian Handicap market, turning over hundreds of millions and also analytical statistics that no one else had, allowing you to scout some of the best young players in the world wouldn't you be super protective?

He employs over 100 staff in Camden, they are all sworn to secrecy apparently he really treats his staff well too which probably stops any of them selling their wares to bigger clubs. But this is the thing, he's hit a sweet spot with the way he operates and it would cost a big club a shedton of money to replicate. So we have got to the stage where every summer, Brighton effectively having done the scouting have 2 or 3 players they can sell for top dollar, buy more prospects, then rinse and repeat. How long will his strategy succeed who knows, but its more fun having clubs like Brighton in the PL than the likes of Stoke City who only survived by kicking lumps out of the teams they faced.

[OneBardGooner]

Not sure where you’re coming from NFG as the vast majority on here have been singing Rice’s praises

Absolutely. But apparently it's an agenda if you don't rate every Arsenal player as a genius....

OR Slag Them Off before they've even got going!

[Retro Gunner]

Well Tony Bloom has proven you wrong DB10, and a lot of other people in football.

You don't become a self made billionaire and structure your whole life around the application of data in different settings be it poker, gambling or football unless you do something that is on a different level to your peers. There is a very good article written by the Athletic about it, and countless pieces on social media including You tube about his history. Starlizard is a very secretive company that employs over 100 people in the heart of North London, every member of staff is sworn to keeping the methods that the company uses to turn over hundreds of millions each year. Look at the website, if you work with data there really isn't a lot to gleen.

https://theathletic.com/1678274/2020/03 ... -gambling/

Their recruitment process revolves around quantitive analysis and its only when certain metrics are met, that they decide to follow up and take a closer look at a particular player. It's no coincidence that a club of a similar stature Brentford are also punching above their weight using similar methods to Brighton. The only reason they can do this, is their owner was a former business partner of Bloom, they fell out but clearly he is clever enough to apply similar methods in Brentfords recruitment process.

Just yesterday we were linked with a move for Evan Ferguson next summer, £100m for an 18 year old. Brighton already took the piss out of Boehly and made him look like a mug over Caicedo, paying £15m more than he needed to when he thought he would get Caicedo for £80m. Last weekends West Ham game was pure comedy with Caicedo conceding a penalty. No big club has been able to replicate what Brighton does, as long as that continues, there is a very good chance they will establish themselves in the Division giving big clubs a bloody nose both on and off the pitch.

Going back to Rice, its ok I understand that the agenda has already started against him, so when you present statistical analysis its always what the eye sees over what the figures show. And on this forum I am not surprised that people always like to go against the grain, even if what the majority has seen is we have a gem in Rice that adds tons of value to the club. He was the MOM on Monday, the stand out player, I don't care what pundits say I make my own mind up. Just waiting for a derogatory nickname for Rice now, because that's how people on this forum love to push their confirmation bias.

Let the games come, I have no doubt the noises will be drowned out by the acceptance by the broader fanbase we have recruited a star.

Against my better judgement, try as I might, I couldn't stop myself responding to the bit in red.

Nut flush, when a few of us questioned the fee for Rice and said we'd well overpaid, you asked why we were worried about what we were spending and that it was irrelevant in modern day football, which was soon to become just like the NFL. Yet you now think that Boehly has been made to look a mug by overpaying for Caicedo. Don't the theories you apply to us also apply to the chavs?
[/quote]

Of course he has, Chelski dithered for over a month with Caicedo.

The bar was set at £100m, they could have got their man for £15m less. Bloom set the wheels in motion for a timed auction, Liverpool threw their hat into the ring at £110m, Caicedo didn't want to join them, and Chelski came back with their £115m bid.

There is absolutely no comparison with the way their deal panned out to ours. We where told that Rice would cost upwards of £100m, and we offered exactly that in the end. If you think Chelsea wernt played then more fool you, sorry. Again you need to do a bit of research about Tony Bloom before you make such comments. The guy was born with nothing, and its totally self made.
[/quote]


Mate, are you deliberately missing the point I made? Firstly, I wasn’t talking about Bloom and don’t doubt he’s a very bright guy. I also don’t care if he mugged Chelsea…in fact, I hope he did.

My point was that you were previously insistent that transfer fees were irrelevant these days, no matter what Rice cost and that it had no impact on what else could be spent. It’s gonna be like the NFL isn’t it?

Yet, it suddenly matters that the chavs paid over the top…why’s that then? Given your position on transfer fees, why would Boehly care if he spent 80, 100, or 115m?

For what it’s worth, I’m a big fan of how Brighton run the club and what they are achieving.