Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[Retro Gunner]

Have you looked up his salary Stu? He's on around £100k pw. There's loads of stuff about him being linked away before the transfer window closed. When he signed his contract is irrelevant, apart from his sell on value.

I didn’t to be fair
But if he was happy enough to sign up for 4/5 years a year ago he must have been okay with what was offered at the time.

He won’t be in the top earners but it’s hardly chicken feed either, doubt that many clubs would be capable or willing to give him a substantial rise on top of that figure.
I get that Saudi money will turn heads, but he is playing at a top club in the premier league and champions league and has just started getting game time for Brazil ( and a goal last night )

Plenty of time to wind down on stupid money when you hit 32 or higher ….
He looks committed to the cause when he plays to me, so hopefully it was an issue that has now been sorted.

By the way I agree leaving him out and playing Partey makeshift right back was a shite decision by Arteta, and one I hope we don’t have to suffer again this season.

This is my point, was a bit of shenanigans from his representatives. I am almost certain he had no intention of leaving, but he's pissed Arteta off.

And Arteta is a genius at spinning things. As soon as Timber got injured he was probably thinking about revisiting Partey as the inverted RB. And used that as an excuse to drop Gabriel. The games he tried the formation out were Forest and Fulham amongst a few others. Arteta probably thought he could get away with it and it kind of bit him in the bum against Fulham. That game in particular looked like the first nail in the coffin for Ramsdale. Lets just get this clear for balance theres a few things Arteta done in terms of team selection and setup that have pissed me off, but I can see both sides of what he is trying the good and bad, unlike some posters on this forum who get off by continually slagging him off no matter what he does.

He has been forced to play our more conventional defence in recent weeks because of injuries, and there is more stability now thank fuck.

He dropped Gabriel and used Partey in the inverted RB position from the start of the Forest game, so nothing to do with Timber getting injured. Gabriel, Tomi and Kiwior were all on the bench, so he had no reason to start Partey in a RB position, other than it was his choice to do so.

Similarly, for the Fulham game, Gabriel and Zinchenko were on the bench, so he again had options and had no reason to start Partey at RB. His brainless decision making probably cost us two points in that game. Let's hope it doesn't make a difference at the end of the season!

Even if your theory about punishing Gabriel is correct...and you have no way of knowing if that is fact...then Arteta was a prat for putting the team in jeopardy out of spite. To be honest, if he really was punishing Gabriel, then surely he would have left him out of the squad for the game altogether?

As for the second part in red, that is indeed the worry. The better defensive set up has been forced upon him, but now that Partey is fit, will he revert to sticking him at RB because he thinks it's a good move, or indeed, to squeeze Havertz in midfield? We all know (or most of us) that the sensible decision is to bench Havrertz, stick Partey in midfield with Rice and leave the fucking defence alone.

What if Partey hadn't have got injured where would Gabriel be now? Arteta's plan all along was to play Partey at RB. Havertz was bought in to replace Xhaka Rice was bought in to replace Partey in midfield. I wouldn't be surprised if Partey started at RB v Chelsea

Well KH I agree, that's the point I was making. Nothing was forced onto Arteta, he clearly chose the tactic of Havertz in midfield and Partey at RB. Now that everyone is fit, we'll see if he's learnt his lesson about the idiotic tactic, or if he'll revert to it. Surely he can't be so fucking stupid to drop Gabriel again (or anyone else in the back four) and put Partey at RB can he?....Can he.......??

[wibble]

I dont see Partey playing right back again unless we have the same injuries as before. Sadly that’s not unlikely with timber out long term and Zinchenko injury prone.
It will be the same back 5 against Chelsea if all fit surely. With Rice and odegaard starters he’ll rotate between partey and Havertz for that 3rd slot, with hopefully Partey returning to form and starting the majority.

[Retro Gunner]

I dont see Partey playing right back again unless we have the same injuries as before. Sadly that’s not unlikely with timber out long term and Zinchenko injury prone.
It will be the same back 5 against Chelsea if all fit surely. With Rice and odegaard starters he’ll rotate between partey and Havertz for that 3rd slot, with hopefully Partey returning to form and starting the majority.

Let's hope you're right on all counts Wibble. However, I'll reiterate...the decision to play Partey at RB was nothing to do with injuries, it was a choice. Take a look at the bench for the Forest game and you'll see there were plenty of defensive options available that Arteta chose not to play. It was bad enough to stick Partey in as RB, but to then expect him to adopt an "inverted" role was bonkers. Let's hope El Basque has learnt.

[Stuart L (2)]

I dont see Partey playing right back again unless we have the same injuries as before. Sadly that’s not unlikely with timber out long term and Zinchenko injury prone.
It will be the same back 5 against Chelsea if all fit surely. With Rice and odegaard starters he’ll rotate between partey and Havertz for that 3rd slot, with hopefully Partey returning to form and starting the majority.

Let's hope you're right on all counts Wibble. However, I'll reiterate...the decision to play Partey at RB was nothing to do with injuries, it was a choice. Take a look at the bench for the Forest game and you'll see there were plenty of defensive options available that Arteta chose not to play. It was bad enough to stick Partey in as RB, but to then expect him to adopt an "inverted" role was bonkers. Let's hope El Basque has learnt.

I’m trying to recall did he play a game or two at the tail end of the season there too ?

I think if Timber was available at the same time as Zinchencko we have the option of either player, from each side of the pitch Joining in the midfield to give us an extra man.
Tomiyasu potentially too.

Partey in contract talks apparently , if they don’t reach agreement he may well be sold - However he will miss most of January anyway due to the Africa Cup of Nations so how do we sell him if he is away on International duty ?

[Retro Gunner]

I dont see Partey playing right back again unless we have the same injuries as before. Sadly that’s not unlikely with timber out long term and Zinchenko injury prone.
It will be the same back 5 against Chelsea if all fit surely. With Rice and odegaard starters he’ll rotate between partey and Havertz for that 3rd slot, with hopefully Partey returning to form and starting the majority.

Let's hope you're right on all counts Wibble. However, I'll reiterate...the decision to play Partey at RB was nothing to do with injuries, it was a choice. Take a look at the bench for the Forest game and you'll see there were plenty of defensive options available that Arteta chose not to play. It was bad enough to stick Partey in as RB, but to then expect him to adopt an "inverted" role was bonkers. Let's hope El Basque has learnt.

I’m trying to recall did he play a game or two at the tail end of the season there too ?

I think if Timber was available at the same time as Zinchencko we have the option of either player, from each side of the pitch Joining in the midfield to give us an extra man.
Tomiyasu potentially too.

Partey in contract talks apparently , if they don’t reach agreement he may well be sold - However he will miss most of January anyway due to the Africa Cup of Nations so how do we sell him if he is away on International duty ?

I've thought for years that unless a guy was an exceptional talent, then I wouldn't sign any African players due to this tournament. It's not only played right in the middle of the season, where you can potentially lose a player for 5 weeks or so, but is played every two years.

Wenger appeared to have a real thing for signing Africans and I seem to remember occasions where we could lose about 4 players for the whole of January. There's also the very real risk of them coming back knackered and/or injured. Conversely, it always struck me that Ferguson rarely seemed to buy African players and especially after the tournament became bi-annual, which I don't think it always was. It may just have been one of those things, but it was noticeable how Utd seemed to have few Africans on the books. Wise move imo.

[Gunner Rob]

Cant help thinking that Arteta has peaked at Arsenal.
The transfer window this summer was a disaster - we have gone from title challlengers to top 4 possibles in a few short months.

Someone phoned the Radio 5 phone in show yesterday to say that he wanted Arteta to go - the presenters were incredulous, there is still a media narrative that Arteta is some kind of genius. I just don’t see it - think it will be an increasingly tough season

[augie]

Cant help thinking that Arteta has peaked at Arsenal.
The transfer window this summer was a disaster - we have gone from title challlengers to top 4 possibles in a few short months.

Someone phoned the Radio 5 phone in show yesterday to say that he wanted Arteta to go - the presenters were incredulous, there is still a media narrative that Arteta is some kind of genius. I just don’t see it - think it will be an increasingly tough season

It wasnt me

[augie]

Sums it up perfectly imo

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/sports/footba ... 5e3&ei=115

[SteveO 35]

Lets see what this season brings. Its clear that the board have backed their man to make us a top four club again and he's managed that for one single season - a season in which we quickly abandoned every cup competition and had a clear run at the league (a bit like the vermin this season).

Its what he does from here isn't it?

As much as I would never want Wenger back, if we wanted someone to get us the odd FA Cup and challenge for the top 4, we might as well have stuck with what we had. Wenger's record in Europe was abysmal for someone who had been in the role 22 years and supposedly one of the elite coaches in world football - two losing European finals, and two semi finals. For a team that at its peak between 98 and 04 had some of Europe's finest players it was a criminal underachievement. This fella seems to be picking up the same thread - dumped out of Europe by also rans like Olympiacos, Villareal and Sporting, and now making hard work of a group that was being celebrated as an easy one.

The guy has had more financial backing than previous managers could dream of and now that Clive and Holding are gone, only fringe man Elneny is one of the ex-Wengerites. Although Emery supposedly left behind a mess, he also left him Martinelli, Saka and Saliba and there aren't many complaints about that bunch - arguably the 3 star men of last season

This is his team. This is his coaching staff. This is his moment - there can be no excuses. Man Ure are still an utter mess, the Chavs have been diabolical for 2 years, the vermin are a shadow of Pochettino's 2019 team and Liverpool struggling to repeat the 2020 success with the breakup of the front free and an aging, struggling defence and totally recast midfield. Only City have the divine right to be above us with previous spending and quality of management, and the superpowers of Europe (especially Barca) are a shadow of their former selves

A minimum of 3rd place (and not a distant one), a domestic cup and a very serious tilt at the CL for me - anything less is failure

[Retro Gunner]

Lets see what this season brings. Its clear that the board have backed their man to make us a top four club again and he's managed that for one single season - a season in which we quickly abandoned every cup competition and had a clear run at the league (a bit like the vermin this season).

Its what he does from here isn't it?

As much as I would never want Wenger back, if we wanted someone to get us the odd FA Cup and challenge for the top 4, we might as well have stuck with what we had. Wenger's record in Europe was abysmal for someone who had been in the role 22 years and supposedly one of the elite coaches in world football - two losing European finals, and two semi finals. For a team that at its peak between 98 and 04 had some of Europe's finest players it was a criminal underachievement. This fella seems to be picking up the same thread - dumped out of Europe by also rans like Olympiacos, Villareal and Sporting, and now making hard work of a group that was being celebrated as an easy one.

The guy has had more financial backing than previous managers could dream of and now that Clive and Holding are gone, only fringe man Elneny is one of the ex-Wengerites. Although Emery supposedly left behind a mess, he also left him Martinelli, Saka and Saliba and there aren't many complaints about that bunch - arguably the 3 star men of last season

This is his team. This is his coaching staff. This is his moment - there can be no excuses. Man Ure are still an utter mess, the Chavs have been diabolical for 2 years, the vermin are a shadow of Pochettino's 2019 team and Liverpool struggling to repeat the 2020 success with the breakup of the front free and an aging, struggling defence and totally recast midfield. Only City have the divine right to be above us with previous spending and quality of management, and the superpowers of Europe (especially Barca) are a shadow of their former selves

A minimum of 3rd place (and not a distant one), a domestic cup and a very serious tilt at the CL for me - anything less is failure

Spot on. Can't see how anyone can argue with any of that.

[OneBardGooner]

Lets see what this season brings. Its clear that the board have backed their man to make us a top four club again and he's managed that for one single season - a season in which we quickly abandoned every cup competition and had a clear run at the league (a bit like the vermin this season).

Its what he does from here isn't it?

As much as I would never want Wenger back, if we wanted someone to get us the odd FA Cup and challenge for the top 4, we might as well have stuck with what we had. Wenger's record in Europe was abysmal for someone who had been in the role 22 years and supposedly one of the elite coaches in world football - two losing European finals, and two semi finals. For a team that at its peak between 98 and 04 had some of Europe's finest players it was a criminal underachievement. This fella seems to be picking up the same thread - dumped out of Europe by also rans like Olympiacos, Villareal and Sporting, and now making hard work of a group that was being celebrated as an easy one.

The guy has had more financial backing than previous managers could dream of and now that Clive and Holding are gone, only fringe man Elneny is one of the ex-Wengerites. Although Emery supposedly left behind a mess, he also left him Martinelli, Saka and Saliba and there aren't many complaints about that bunch - arguably the 3 star men of last season

This is his team. This is his coaching staff. This is his moment - there can be no excuses. Man Ure are still an utter mess, the Chavs have been diabolical for 2 years, the vermin are a shadow of Pochettino's 2019 team and Liverpool struggling to repeat the 2020 success with the breakup of the front free and an aging, struggling defence and totally recast midfield. Only City have the divine right to be above us with previous spending and quality of management, and the superpowers of Europe (especially Barca) are a shadow of their former selves

A minimum of 3rd place (and not a distant one), a domestic cup and a very serious tilt at the CL for me - anything less is failure

Spot on. Can't see how anyone can argue with any of that.

Agreed, BUT someone will (not me!)

[SteveO 35]

1 FA cup in 4 years during COVID

Hundreds of millions spent

Still as physically and mentally weak as any of Wenger's teams from 2009 onwards

11 cowards - new names, same problems

Fuck off - I don't trust the process

[Gunner Rob]

Arteta has peaked - the reality of last season was a fluked 6 month period, helped by a condensed fixture list due to the World Cup and easy Europa league matches to keep the momentum going.

We were also helped in the league by exiting the cups early - something that he seems to like doing. the fan base needs to wake up because he is the biggest fraud going. Arteta OUT

[SteveO 35]

Arteta has peaked - the reality of last season was a fluked 6 month period, helped by a condensed fixture list due to the World Cup and easy Europa league matches to keep the momentum going.

We were also helped in the league by exiting the cups early - something that he seems to like doing. the fan base needs to wake up because he is the biggest fraud going. Arteta OUT

I said he deserved this season to prove it wasn't a fluke, and in many ways I still believe that, but deep down I can see the same old 'Wenger' problems haven't been fixed. Declan Rice is the only natural leader in this squad and it cost 100m to get him. I only hope he doesn't see his natural leadership traits eroded by this nonsense talk of a 'leadership group' - making Saka captain FFS....that's the hallmark of Wenger. Rotational leadership etc, what a load of bollocks. People spunk off on here about Gabriel like he's some sort of Tony Adams reborn, but he isn't, never has been and is another one who crumbles under pressure. As for that midfield three last night - I think a half reasonable Championship team would have got into them and turned them over

Physically weak, mentally weak, flat track bullies. The past week has been classic Wenger - piss all over the worst team in the league in the comforts of home surroundings with a hattrick from a lightweight. The cast members have changed but for Nketiah read Bentnder or Vela - fancy dans who bag hattricks against Sunderland, Sheffield United and Leyton Orient, but absolute c.unts when it comes to a big away game. Arteta's even beginning to sound like Wenger - repeating the same boring fluff time after time

People sadly are fooled by it. There were even posters on here last year who should have known better, claiming that our Europa League exit and domestic cups were in our best interests. I said then it wasn't and so it proved. As livid after last night as I was when we tossed it in the bin against Sporting in a cup we should have won. There's no change in mindset - just a bunch of overpaid, leaderless w***ers, who will turn it on when the pressure's off, and toss it away when the pressure's on. 4 years into the job and we've got Nketiah as a regular starting striker, Vieira no better than he was when we signed him, Jorginho years past his best, Partey making the occasional guest appearance, a converted CB at RB, no natural left back and creating a drama between two keepers which has seen both of them go backwards. 4 years - there's no blaming Unai or Wenger. This is all on him

[Gunner Rob]

On Thursday morning I went to the Arsenal website thinking there might be some sort of apology after the result on Wednesday.

Instead the headline was Arteta getting nominated for October Manager of the month.
I give up