Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[Stuart L (2)]

Mikel Arteta is set to become one of the highest paid managers in the Premier League, with his new deal expected to be worth more than £10million a year.

[@SamiMokbel81_DM]


Just to cheer Augie up

And how much would it cost us to get a manager who would win us something?

8th
8th
5th
2nd
2nd

x1 FA Cup*

x2 Community Shield

It’s hardly £10m p/a quality, is it?

*Covid paused the season

Wouldn’t matter who was manager - the biggest hurdle is we are competing with a City team that have just won an unprecedented 4 league titles in a row.
Practically any other season we win the league in the last 2 years with our points totals.

IF city get dealt with properly, ie relegated, points deducted on a large scale, transfer embargo, pep departs, we and Super Mik Arteta reign supreme.

That's quite an interesting way of putting it Stuart. I note one of your qualifiers there though is the bald badtard has to leave cheaty. Is that not an admission that Arteta is not good enough?

Yep I'm being a tad facetious there but you can see how it reads.....

I do agree that any manager has the bases loaded against them while 115 FC are allowed cheat and spend freely but I also believe they are beatable. Is Arteta the man to beat them? Maybe. But I'm not convinced.

If he had sent us out to look for the win against cheaty instead of the draw we'd have won the league. Yes if we'd risked it and lost we'd have been out of the running sooner but that for me was a key day where a GG or a Pre-insanity Wenger would have gone for the win.

No, but it is a fair comment to make, I’m hoping that IF / when their punishment comes, their demise is brutal.

I think Pep will walk away sooner rather than later anyway.( Just a hunch.)

I think the city game was a gamble that we couldn’t afford to lose it and a draw v them, and win the rest if our games we would triumph ….villa put paid to that but had Trossard scored from 10 yards and we took the lead potentially a different outcome.

Wenger went for then win regardless, hence 8-2 at OT, 6-0 away at Chelsea in his memorable 1000th game, and drubbings v Bayern, sometimes you have to take the pragmatic approach.

We are on the cusp of great things, a young team still to reach their maximum potential and a young, ambitious, manager who has the backing of the board and owners, we are in a superb position and yet there is still the megalith that is City to overcome, we have come closer than anyone else in the last 2 seasons and we will be the top challengers next year too, will it be enough ? We will have to wait and see but we are back with the big boys for the foreseeable future.

City are beatable yes, we beat them twice of you include the charity shield ( you can bet if we lost, it would have been used by detractors ) and drew away. Last season we outplayed them at home and yet they got lucky and sneaked the win.

Whatever happens, we now have an Arsenal team back that is what I have wanted for years, full of fight, grit, some superb football and a team that is a proper team, not individuals.

[OneBardGooner]

Mikel Arteta is set to become one of the highest paid managers in the Premier League, with his new deal expected to be worth more than £10million a year.

[@SamiMokbel81_DM]


Just to cheer Augie up

And how much would it cost us to get a manager who would win us something?

8th
8th
5th
2nd
2nd

x1 FA Cup*

x2 Community Shield

It’s hardly £10m p/a quality, is it?

*Covid paused the season

Wouldn’t matter who was manager - the biggest hurdle is we are competing with a City team that have just won an unprecedented 4 league titles in a row.
Practically any other season we win the league in the last 2 years with our points totals.

IF city get dealt with properly, ie relegated, points deducted on a large scale, transfer embargo, pep departs, we and Super Mik Arteta reign supreme.

That's quite an interesting way of putting it Stuart. I note one of your qualifiers there though is the bald badtard has to leave cheaty. Is that not an admission that Arteta is not good enough?

Yep I'm being a tad facetious there but you can see how it reads.....

I do agree that any manager has the bases loaded against them while 115 FC are allowed cheat and spend freely but I also believe they are beatable. Is Arteta the man to beat them? Maybe. But I'm not convinced.

If he had sent us out to look for the win against cheaty instead of the draw we'd have won the league. Yes if we'd risked it and lost we'd have been out of the running sooner but that for me was a key day where a GG or a Pre-insanity Wenger would have gone for the win.

No, but it is a fair comment to make, I’m hoping that IF / when their punishment comes, their demise is brutal.

I think Pep will walk away sooner rather than later anyway.( Just a hunch.)

I think the city game was a gamble that we couldn’t afford to lose it and a draw v them, and win the rest if our games we would triumph ….villa put paid to that but had Trossard scored from 10 yards and we took the lead potentially a different outcome.

Wenger went for then win regardless, hence 8-2 at OT, 6-0 away at Chelsea in his memorable 1000th game, and drubbings v Bayern, sometimes you have to take the pragmatic approach.

We are on the cusp of great things, a young team still to reach their maximum potential and a young, ambitious, manager who has the backing of the board and owners, we are in a superb position and yet there is still the megalith that is City to overcome, we have come closer than anyone else in the last 2 seasons and we will be the top challengers next year too, will it be enough ? We will have to wait and see but we are back with the big boys for the foreseeable future.

City are beatable yes, we beat them twice of you include the charity shield ( you can bet if we lost, it would have been used by detractors ) and drew away. Last season we outplayed them at home and yet they got lucky and sneaked the win.

Whatever happens, we now have an Arsenal team back that is what I have wanted for years, full of fight, grit, some superb football and a team that is a proper team, not individuals.

Being the clever (Sneaky) fucker he is, he has already dropped hint's of his (eventual) departure(at the end of next season)


All down to fine margins (and let's not forget VAR / Corruption) in the end mate.


100% Agreed

[Retro Gunner]

I agree with Stuart regarding the City game. It was a must not lose game, rather than a must win and I’d happily take a draw at their place every season and especially if we beat them at home.

Of course augie and DB are right that if we’d won there, then we’d have won the league, but that can be applied to every game that we failed to win. Had we beat Villa and West Ham at home we’d have won the league and if we hadn’t been cheated at the Geordies we would have got at least a point. Those and other games can genuinely be seen as points lost, whereas a draw at City is surely a point gained (and two points lost for them) in most people’s book.

As for Arteta, I’ve never warmed to him and would have had no problem seeing him sacked 2 years ago, but the improvement was significant this season. For me, it’s what he does this summer that is crucial. Adding the CF we need is beyond vital and a top quality centre mid also. I’ll judge him in August.

[augie]

I agree with Stuart regarding the City game. It was a must not lose game, rather than a must win and I’d happily take a draw at their place every season and especially if we beat them at home.

Of course augie and DB are right that if we’d won there, then we’d have won the league, but that can be applied to every game that we failed to win. Had we beat Villa and West Ham at home we’d have won the league and if we hadn’t been cheated at the Geordies we would have got at least a point. Those and other games can genuinely be seen as points lost, whereas a draw at City is surely a point gained (and two points lost for them) in most people’s book.

As for Arteta, I’ve never warmed to him and would have had no problem seeing him sacked 2 years ago, but the improvement was significant this season. For me, it’s what he does this summer that is crucial. Adding the CF we need is beyond vital and a top quality centre mid also. I’ll judge him in August.

If the city away game was played back in Feb or anytime before that then it would have been must not lose - the reality that people seem to forget is that when we played city there were THREE teams in contention for the league, and if the scouse c.unts had not had a total collapse, then our point at citeeh would have looked pitiful had they gone on to win it. Context is everything to me - for large chunks of the season it is about staying up there and in contention, but when it comes to the run in you have to go and take what you want cos nobody is going to give it to you. I said at the time that our safety first plan basically told our players that the cone boy didnt believe we were good enough to go up there and win - what I didnt think about at the time is something rodri has spoken about in recent weeks and that is the message it sent to the city players, and he said that it told them that we were afraid of them, and they got a boost from that. Like I said, context and timing is everything, and cos the game was so late in the season, every Gooner alive knew that city were going to win out from there on, so the onus was on us to kill them off

[Retro Gunner]

I agree with Stuart regarding the City game. It was a must not lose game, rather than a must win and I’d happily take a draw at their place every season and especially if we beat them at home.

Of course augie and DB are right that if we’d won there, then we’d have won the league, but that can be applied to every game that we failed to win. Had we beat Villa and West Ham at home we’d have won the league and if we hadn’t been cheated at the Geordies we would have got at least a point. Those and other games can genuinely be seen as points lost, whereas a draw at City is surely a point gained (and two points lost for them) in most people’s book.

As for Arteta, I’ve never warmed to him and would have had no problem seeing him sacked 2 years ago, but the improvement was significant this season. For me, it’s what he does this summer that is crucial. Adding the CF we need is beyond vital and a top quality centre mid also. I’ll judge him in August.

If the city away game was played back in Feb or anytime before that then it would have been must not lose - the reality that people seem to forget is that when we played city there were THREE teams in contention for the league, and if the scouse c.unts had not had a total collapse, then our point at citeeh would have looked pitiful had they gone on to win it. Context is everything to me - for large chunks of the season it is about staying up there and in contention, but when it comes to the run in you have to go and take what you want cos nobody is going to give it to you. I said at the time that our safety first plan basically told our players that the cone boy didnt believe we were good enough to go up there and win - what I didnt think about at the time is something rodri has spoken about in recent weeks and that is the message it sent to the city players, and he said that it told them that we were afraid of them, and they got a boost from that. Like I said, context and timing is everything, and cos the game was so late in the season, every Gooner alive knew that city were going to win out from there on, so the onus was on us to kill them off

Trouble is augie, we aren’t as good as them and there’s no shame in admitting it. As we all agree, they’ve cheated and bought their success and have established a juggernaut over the last 15 years. Imagine how Liverpool must have felt, getting to 97 points and losing out by a point. In my opinion, had we gone there and played for the win, then we would have lost and maybe comfortably as in previous seasons. The league would have been all over at that point.

I agree that after the draw at City, most Gooners still expected them to go on their usual run and win the league. However, we took them to the last day and had we not fucked up against Villa, then the draw at City would have been a big part of us winning the league. We aren’t good enough to go to their place and play them off the park. Despite the scousers still being in contention, we couldn’t afford to lose.

As for Rodri, I wouldn’t take too much notice of what a player says at the end of the season. No doubt Pep was giving them that message, but conversely, Arteta would have been telling our players that they hadn’t got beaten as was usual and that they’d proved they could compete with City.

It’s only my opinion, but it wasn’t the draw at City that cost us the league. It was the disastrous Christmas period and the Villa game.

[mcdowell42]

The 2 games against Fulham were the issue for me ,2-1 up against 10 men and we draw,and then I think the 2-1 loss away to them was 1 of the worst performances of the season.

[augie]

I agree with Stuart regarding the City game. It was a must not lose game, rather than a must win and I’d happily take a draw at their place every season and especially if we beat them at home.

Of course augie and DB are right that if we’d won there, then we’d have won the league, but that can be applied to every game that we failed to win. Had we beat Villa and West Ham at home we’d have won the league and if we hadn’t been cheated at the Geordies we would have got at least a point. Those and other games can genuinely be seen as points lost, whereas a draw at City is surely a point gained (and two points lost for them) in most people’s book.

As for Arteta, I’ve never warmed to him and would have had no problem seeing him sacked 2 years ago, but the improvement was significant this season. For me, it’s what he does this summer that is crucial. Adding the CF we need is beyond vital and a top quality centre mid also. I’ll judge him in August.

If the city away game was played back in Feb or anytime before that then it would have been must not lose - the reality that people seem to forget is that when we played city there were THREE teams in contention for the league, and if the scouse c.unts had not had a total collapse, then our point at citeeh would have looked pitiful had they gone on to win it. Context is everything to me - for large chunks of the season it is about staying up there and in contention, but when it comes to the run in you have to go and take what you want cos nobody is going to give it to you. I said at the time that our safety first plan basically told our players that the cone boy didnt believe we were good enough to go up there and win - what I didnt think about at the time is something rodri has spoken about in recent weeks and that is the message it sent to the city players, and he said that it told them that we were afraid of them, and they got a boost from that. Like I said, context and timing is everything, and cos the game was so late in the season, every Gooner alive knew that city were going to win out from there on, so the onus was on us to kill them off

Trouble is augie, we aren’t as good as them and there’s no shame in admitting it. As we all agree, they’ve cheated and bought their success and have established a juggernaut over the last 15 years. Imagine how Liverpool must have felt, getting to 97 points and losing out by a point. In my opinion, had we gone there and played for the win, then we would have lost and maybe comfortably as in previous seasons. The league would have been all over at that point.

I agree that after the draw at City, most Gooners still expected them to go on their usual run and win the league. However, we took them to the last day and had we not fucked up against Villa, then the draw at City would have been a big part of us winning the league. We aren’t good enough to go to their place and play them off the park. Despite the scousers still being in contention, we couldn’t afford to lose.

As for Rodri, I wouldn’t take too much notice of what a player says at the end of the season. No doubt Pep was giving them that message, but conversely, Arteta would have been telling our players that they hadn’t got beaten as was usual and that they’d proved they could compete with City.

It’s only my opinion, but it wasn’t the draw at City that cost us the league. It was the disastrous Christmas period and the Villa game.

The worst manure team in decades beat them last Saturday in the cup final and we are miles better than they are - this is not the city team from a few years ago, and all season they have been weak defensively, so for me it makes sense to attack your opponents biggest weakness but we didnt

[the playing mantis]

I agree with Stuart regarding the City game. It was a must not lose game, rather than a must win and I’d happily take a draw at their place every season and especially if we beat them at home.

Of course augie and DB are right that if we’d won there, then we’d have won the league, but that can be applied to every game that we failed to win. Had we beat Villa and West Ham at home we’d have won the league and if we hadn’t been cheated at the Geordies we would have got at least a point. Those and other games can genuinely be seen as points lost, whereas a draw at City is surely a point gained (and two points lost for them) in most people’s book.

As for Arteta, I’ve never warmed to him and would have had no problem seeing him sacked 2 years ago, but the improvement was significant this season. For me, it’s what he does this summer that is crucial. Adding the CF we need is beyond vital and a top quality centre mid also. I’ll judge him in August.

If the city away game was played back in Feb or anytime before that then it would have been must not lose - the reality that people seem to forget is that when we played city there were THREE teams in contention for the league, and if the scouse c.unts had not had a total collapse, then our point at citeeh would have looked pitiful had they gone on to win it. Context is everything to me - for large chunks of the season it is about staying up there and in contention, but when it comes to the run in you have to go and take what you want cos nobody is going to give it to you. I said at the time that our safety first plan basically told our players that the cone boy didnt believe we were good enough to go up there and win - what I didnt think about at the time is something rodri has spoken about in recent weeks and that is the message it sent to the city players, and he said that it told them that we were afraid of them, and they got a boost from that. Like I said, context and timing is everything, and cos the game was so late in the season, every Gooner alive knew that city were going to win out from there on, so the onus was on us to kill them off

Trouble is augie, we aren’t as good as them and there’s no shame in admitting it. As we all agree, they’ve cheated and bought their success and have established a juggernaut over the last 15 years. Imagine how Liverpool must have felt, getting to 97 points and losing out by a point. In my opinion, had we gone there and played for the win, then we would have lost and maybe comfortably as in previous seasons. The league would have been all over at that point.

I agree that after the draw at City, most Gooners still expected them to go on their usual run and win the league. However, we took them to the last day and had we not fucked up against Villa, then the draw at City would have been a big part of us winning the league. We aren’t good enough to go to their place and play them off the park. Despite the scousers still being in contention, we couldn’t afford to lose.

As for Rodri, I wouldn’t take too much notice of what a player says at the end of the season. No doubt Pep was giving them that message, but conversely, Arteta would have been telling our players that they hadn’t got beaten as was usual and that they’d proved they could compete with City.

It’s only my opinion, but it wasn’t the draw at City that cost us the league. It was the disastrous Christmas period and the Villa game.

Spot on Retro

I find it a bit strange people are rewriting history and using not going to city to win as a stick to beat arteta with and reason it as why we didn't win the league. Not aimed at any one specifically.

I'm sure at the time a lot said they would be pleased if we didn't rollover and put up a fight and adapted how we play to the oppo. We did. We got thr result we needed. And suspect if anyone could be arsed to look back theor were comments to that effect.We didn't lose the league there we losti t dropping points at lesser teams. That is if you think we lost it rather then city won it.

I'm all for challenging arteta but not on that point as its bllx.

[the playing mantis]

I agree with Stuart regarding the City game. It was a must not lose game, rather than a must win and I’d happily take a draw at their place every season and especially if we beat them at home.

Of course augie and DB are right that if we’d won there, then we’d have won the league, but that can be applied to every game that we failed to win. Had we beat Villa and West Ham at home we’d have won the league and if we hadn’t been cheated at the Geordies we would have got at least a point. Those and other games can genuinely be seen as points lost, whereas a draw at City is surely a point gained (and two points lost for them) in most people’s book.

As for Arteta, I’ve never warmed to him and would have had no problem seeing him sacked 2 years ago, but the improvement was significant this season. For me, it’s what he does this summer that is crucial. Adding the CF we need is beyond vital and a top quality centre mid also. I’ll judge him in August.

If the city away game was played back in Feb or anytime before that then it would have been must not lose - the reality that people seem to forget is that when we played city there were THREE teams in contention for the league, and if the scouse c.unts had not had a total collapse, then our point at citeeh would have looked pitiful had they gone on to win it. Context is everything to me - for large chunks of the season it is about staying up there and in contention, but when it comes to the run in you have to go and take what you want cos nobody is going to give it to you. I said at the time that our safety first plan basically told our players that the cone boy didnt believe we were good enough to go up there and win - what I didnt think about at the time is something rodri has spoken about in recent weeks and that is the message it sent to the city players, and he said that it told them that we were afraid of them, and they got a boost from that. Like I said, context and timing is everything, and cos the game was so late in the season, every Gooner alive knew that city were going to win out from there on, so the onus was on us to kill them off

Trouble is augie, we aren’t as good as them and there’s no shame in admitting it. As we all agree, they’ve cheated and bought their success and have established a juggernaut over the last 15 years. Imagine how Liverpool must have felt, getting to 97 points and losing out by a point. In my opinion, had we gone there and played for the win, then we would have lost and maybe comfortably as in previous seasons. The league would have been all over at that point.

I agree that after the draw at City, most Gooners still expected them to go on their usual run and win the league. However, we took them to the last day and had we not fucked up against Villa, then the draw at City would have been a big part of us winning the league. We aren’t good enough to go to their place and play them off the park. Despite the scousers still being in contention, we couldn’t afford to lose.

As for Rodri, I wouldn’t take too much notice of what a player says at the end of the season. No doubt Pep was giving them that message, but conversely, Arteta would have been telling our players that they hadn’t got beaten as was usual and that they’d proved they could compete with City.

It’s only my opinion, but it wasn’t the draw at City that cost us the league. It was the disastrous Christmas period and the Villa game.

The worst manure team in decades beat them last Saturday in the cup final and we are miles better than they are - this is not the city team from a few years ago, and all season they have been weak defensively, so for me it makes sense to attack your opponents biggest weakness but we didnt

Don't let your hatred of arteta stop claw strutching.

Wrexham beat us once.

Sorry augie you are mostly agreeable but not bending on this is silly.

Had we got battered you would have been first to damn tets!

[DB10GOONER]

Jesus can we not be so precious as to view every comment as an attack on Arteta ffs lads.

Sorry, but I think the point you are all missing is we went out to win those other games that we lost and drew. The cheaty game is the only game we went into looking to not lose. In a way that's me complimenting Arteta as I'm saying we were good enough to beat them but for whatever reason Arteta did not have that belief that day. It's the only game where we manufactured our own downfall, for want of better words.

Seperately if we'd beaten cheaty, I think the boost it would have given us means we might well have beaten villa too. Of course no guarantees in any of that but that's what I think.

Also, for Stuart, just to clarify, when I say Wenger went out to win I'm not talking about latter era broken flush Wenger, I'm talking about Wenger that won the doubles in 98 and 02.

[OneBardGooner]

There are some New Arteta Chants!



https://www.youtube.com/shorts/0s2xMbMiHag




https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lCkssHPgyFI

[Step]

.... and looking likely to let Smith Rowe go! FFS offload Nelson, Nketiah and Jesus but for for God's sake keep Emile and play him. He is class..

[DB10GOONER]

.... and looking likely to let Smith Rowe go! FFS offload Nelson, Nketiah and Jesus but for for God's sake keep Emile and play him. He is class..

Exactly.

[Retro Gunner]

.... and looking likely to let Smith Rowe go! FFS offload Nelson, Nketiah and Jesus but for for God's sake keep Emile and play him. He is class..

Exactly.

To be honest, I gave up on this 2 years ago, as I’ve banged on about before.

It was obvious back then that ESR had no future. When you’ve been behind Xhaka, Vieira, Jorginho, Partey and Havertz, then it’s clear that the boss doesn’t fancy you. Some on here were arguing with me 18 months and 2 years ago about this, but for me the evidence was clear and that’s how it’s turned out.

No point anyone wringing their hands about it now, I resigned myself to his departure back then. In fact, he should have demanded a move last summer if not before. I hope it isn’t too late and that he goes on to have the type of career his talent has promised.

[Step]

A mistake which mirrors the Martinez fiasco IMO.
He can't spot obvious talent.
Watch him fly at Fulham.