Villa vulvas A Sat 24th Aug KO 1730

[rodders999]

Unbelievable save. Watkins thinks Raya has no chance of getting back up out of the net in time so his only concern is putting it on target for a tap in. The way Raya recovered from the landing was almost as impressive as the save. Match winning moment.

[Ray C]

Good win. Very lucky though. How did the miss the two easy chances they had. Terrific save by Raya. Afternoon highlight for me was Avit coming back into his own half and winning a tackle without getting a yellow card !!. Not many teams will take points at Villa this year. Next the Seagulls - winner goes top ?.

[wibble]

Wasn’t able to see the game yesterday so for the first time in years watched motd without knowing the score.

We were lucky with Watkins finishing although what a save from Raya for that second chance. He also made an impressive save last week at wolves and has made a very good start to the season.

A very good 3 points away from home against a team we obviously struggled against last season

As an aside, it’s amazing how many teams are still conceding goals and chances pissing about at the back. I know the idea is to beat the press and gain the advantage but the Leicester player back heeling it and the two keepers losing possession is mental at this level-just hoof it!
I think it was Everton v brighton last week where they seemed to be having a competition on who could gift the opposition the most goal scoring opportunities

[DB10GOONER]

The narrative that Arteta has coached the goodness out of Martinelli must be one of the most bizarre takes ever on here and that’s saying something!

I know there’s people that don’t like the manager but what do we think Arteta did here? Pull Martinelli aside at training one day and tell him to stop burning the full back, driving in to the box scoring goals and creating chances for others?

Whatever you do, don’t do that. Instead every time you have space in behind, turn around and pass it backwards, run the ball out of play or sling in a cross that’s 20 yards over hit.

So if Arteta is to blame for Martinelli’s form going off a cliff he’s to be given credit for any player that’s doing well then I take it. He’s coached the good play into those guys. The 5 players that got in to the PFA team of the season during the week - that was all Arteta’s doing that.

Do you know how bat shit that sounds? Yeah, equally as bat shit as saying he’s coached the good play out of Martinelli.

Martinelli’s form has tanked, it can happen young players. His confidence is no doubt in the shitter but the hope is he can rediscover it. One great run and finish might be enough to spark it and hopefully it comes but for now he should be nowhere near the starting 11.

But you are being objective Rodders and not being driven by a personal agenda to slate the manager who is making those who loudly proclaimed he would be an utter disaster look foolish and even more foolish for not being man enough to admit they were wrong.

We all slagged Wenker for his myopic, narcissistic attitude, yet it is on here in abundance, if you don’t toe the party line.

Ah Christ he's back on his period again....

Seriously though, I don't know where this silliness of there being a "party line" or an "agenda" on here comes from. It's a forum. People will post opposing views. Not sure why some posters get so personally affected by a stranger posting something negative about a player or manager that they don't even know!

I find that sentence "making those who loudly proclaimed he would be an utter disaster look foolish and even more foolish for not being man enough to admit they were wrong" particularly strange Stu. Is that what it's about? I'm right you are wrong nah nah nah!

But my response would be why would they "feel foolish for not being man enough to admit they got something wrong" when they don't believe they are fully wrong? Is that not an attempt at forcing in a party line? Everyone should agree that Arteta is a massive success that has proven his doubters wrong?

In what way has Arteta proven them wrong? By winning the league?

But that's not really even the proper narrative anymore.

In fairness, most posters have agreed that Arteta has improved us from what we were. But does that make him an unbridled success? Is that enough to make it wrong to critique him as a manager? He was poor when he took over. Even his biggest fans would admit that.

Personally I think he was shit when he came in. Completely inexperienced and not up to the job. But he has improved. And he has improved the team.

My problem with him now is I think he has probably taken us as far as he can. I don't believe he has what it takes to take the next step and win the league. Should I admit I'm wrong now, when he still hasn't won the league? After five years and spending over 700million?

Hopefully I'm wrong, and he does win that title, but that remains to be seen. In the meantime when he drops a clanger I for one will criticise him for it. As is right and proper on a football forum whose aim is to not be over run with drooling fanboys that know nothing about the game but want to be seen as superfans. That last bit is not a dig at anyone but rather a general mission statement for the forum.

[DB10GOONER]

The narrative that Arteta has coached the goodness out of Martinelli must be one of the most bizarre takes ever on here and that’s saying something!

I know there’s people that don’t like the manager but what do we think Arteta did here? Pull Martinelli aside at training one day and tell him to stop burning the full back, driving in to the box scoring goals and creating chances for others?

Whatever you do, don’t do that. Instead every time you have space in behind, turn around and pass it backwards, run the ball out of play or sling in a cross that’s 20 yards over hit.

So if Arteta is to blame for Martinelli’s form going off a cliff he’s to be given credit for any player that’s doing well then I take it. He’s coached the good play into those guys. The 5 players that got in to the PFA team of the season during the week - that was all Arteta’s doing that.

Do you know how bat shit that sounds? Yeah, equally as bat shit as saying he’s coached the good play out of Martinelli.

Martinelli’s form has tanked, it can happen young players. His confidence is no doubt in the shitter but the hope is he can rediscover it. One great run and finish might be enough to spark it and hopefully it comes but for now he should be nowhere near the starting 11.

That's just over simplistic though Rodders. I don't think anyone is saying Arteta actively tried to make Martinelli a bad player.

But Martinelli a couple seasons ago was far more adventurous on the ball, and looked like he was developing into a world class player. But he has now become a player that often looks to be playing within himself, afraid to express himself and far too often turns back or infield too early with the ball.

What caused that?

Some people say Arteta has coached him to fit in a system that does not suit the more adventurous and individually skilled players. Some say Martinelli has peaked and never had that next level ability to begin with.

I'm caught somewhere in the middle. I think both Martinelli and Arteta might be to blame, if there is blame to apportion. I think Martinelli in the right team might be top class. Equally I think Arteta has a vision for his team and maybe Martinelli is not the right player for that vision.

[DB10GOONER]

I hate racist slurs and it's a shame that our toothless simpleton with hair on his cheeks has to put down his pint of Beamish and stop making bombs to deal with it all. Poor fella will never finish tarmacking my drive either so cut it out will you !

Hey you married her/him. No point complaining now!

Nothing more to say today mate. Listening to a song at the moment that really encapsulates the frustration of a Sunday - give you a clue....its not Enya or the other one. Bald chap

A massacre? Ugh. I'm not playing that again.

[DB10GOONER]

What a save from Raya.

I can't stop watching it.

Unreal.

It's going to take something on par with Seamo's save against Sheffield utd in the cup to beat this to save of the season. The more I watch it the better it looks.

[Redarmy]

The narrative that Arteta has coached the goodness out of Martinelli must be one of the most bizarre takes ever on here and that’s saying something!

I know there’s people that don’t like the manager but what do we think Arteta did here? Pull Martinelli aside at training one day and tell him to stop burning the full back, driving in to the box scoring goals and creating chances for others?

Whatever you do, don’t do that. Instead every time you have space in behind, turn around and pass it backwards, run the ball out of play or sling in a cross that’s 20 yards over hit.

So if Arteta is to blame for Martinelli’s form going off a cliff he’s to be given credit for any player that’s doing well then I take it. He’s coached the good play into those guys. The 5 players that got in to the PFA team of the season during the week - that was all Arteta’s doing that.

Do you know how bat shit that sounds? Yeah, equally as bat shit as saying he’s coached the good play out of Martinelli.

Martinelli’s form has tanked, it can happen young players. His confidence is no doubt in the shitter but the hope is he can rediscover it. One great run and finish might be enough to spark it and hopefully it comes but for now he should be nowhere near the starting 11.

That's just over simplistic though Rodders. I don't think anyone is saying Arteta actively tried to make Martinelli a bad player.

But Martinelli a couple seasons ago was far more adventurous on the ball, and looked like he was developing into a world class player. But he has now become a player that often looks to be playing within himself, afraid to express himself and far too often turns back or infield too early with the ball.

What caused that?

Some people say Arteta has coached him to fit in a system that does not suit the more adventurous and individually skilled players. Some say Martinelli has peaked and never had that next level ability to begin with.

I'm caught somewhere in the middle. I think both Martinelli and Arteta might be to blame, if there is blame to apportion. I think Martinelli in the right team might be top class. Equally I think Arteta has a vision for his team and maybe Martinelli is not the right player for that vision.

Truth is we will never know what has caused this drop in form, all players are different some get annoyed for not getting picked and come on determined to score and change the game.....some just happy to sit on the bench.....some players respond to a good bollocking.....others need an arm around the shoulder...
I believe Martinelli is a very good footballer maybe its just a slight nagging injury or just a loss of confidence.....who the fuck knows i have faith he will get back to his best...... meanwhile Trossard deserves the first team spot...simple as that

[Redarmy]

That Rogers is like a freight train. Rice needs to keep an eye on him. Would go with him and Jorgs in midfield. Partey’ is nearly 40 and his legs are gone.

I called it. He run Rice and Partey rugged. Absolute steal at £8m

agree Rice did get the runaround.....his form has dropped off

[augie]

The narrative that Arteta has coached the goodness out of Martinelli must be one of the most bizarre takes ever on here and that’s saying something!

I know there’s people that don’t like the manager but what do we think Arteta did here? Pull Martinelli aside at training one day and tell him to stop burning the full back, driving in to the box scoring goals and creating chances for others?

Whatever you do, don’t do that. Instead every time you have space in behind, turn around and pass it backwards, run the ball out of play or sling in a cross that’s 20 yards over hit.

So if Arteta is to blame for Martinelli’s form going off a cliff he’s to be given credit for any player that’s doing well then I take it. He’s coached the good play into those guys. The 5 players that got in to the PFA team of the season during the week - that was all Arteta’s doing that.

Do you know how bat shit that sounds? Yeah, equally as bat shit as saying he’s coached the good play out of Martinelli.

Martinelli’s form has tanked, it can happen young players. His confidence is no doubt in the shitter but the hope is he can rediscover it. One great run and finish might be enough to spark it and hopefully it comes but for now he should be nowhere near the starting 11.

That's just over simplistic though Rodders. I don't think anyone is saying Arteta actively tried to make Martinelli a bad player.

But Martinelli a couple seasons ago was far more adventurous on the ball, and looked like he was developing into a world class player. But he has now become a player that often looks to be playing within himself, afraid to express himself and far too often turns back or infield too early with the ball.

What caused that?

Some people say Arteta has coached him to fit in a system that does not suit the more adventurous and individually skilled players. Some say Martinelli has peaked and never had that next level ability to begin with.

I'm caught somewhere in the middle. I think both Martinelli and Arteta might be to blame, if there is blame to apportion. I think Martinelli in the right team might be top class. Equally I think Arteta has a vision for his team and maybe Martinelli is not the right player for that vision.

Sport, not just football but other sports too, has become FAR too obsessed with stats imo - is it possible martinelli has been chewed out over losing possession too much and is now opting for the safer 5-10 yard backwards or sidewards pass ? Steve O last season openly bemoaned how our style of football had regressed from season before and had got slower and built around maintaining possession - is it a coincidence that the season before (22/23) was the last season that martinelli looked at his best ? As a team we were more dynamic and explosive then, and often blitzed teams into submission - slow and intricate build up play does not suit martinelli's skill set cos he is all about pace

Btw this is not my having a pop at the cone boy or blaming him - team tactics have to suit the majority not the minority, and it could be that is exactly what the cone boy thinks he is doing. I do know that judging by trossards body language when he scored yesterday, the cone boy could have a problem coming down the tracks cos trossard wont stay quiet if he feels he isnt getting a fair shout

[General]

Only just watched it. Couldn’t see it in real time, so recorded it and avoided the score. Haven’t read the thread, so apologies if I plagiarise opinions.

Absolute pony game and the first 60 mins particularly painful. Got the win but that shouldn’t disguise how poor we were and if Watkins takes even one of his two chances, then we lost that game.

We’ll win fuck all with two complete donkeys like Havertz and Partey in the side. Havertz offers absolutely nothing up front and is technically barely Championship level. A for Partey, I know he scored (dreadful goalkeeping btw) but he’s not even bang average.

One of the worst performances I’ve seen from Rice, although better in the last 20 mins when things opened up.

I’ve been a huge fan of Martinelli since day one, but it’s getting ever more difficult to mount a defence of him. Very poor today and where is the young player that had us all on the edge of our seats? He seems to have lost all confidence. I suspect that the swashbuckling, cavalier attacking attitude has been drilled out of him by Arteta, but that’s just my suspicion.

It’s now very hard to deny Trossard a starting place. I’ve rated him since his Brighton days and he’s the most natural finisher we’ve got and he’s earned the right to start ahead of Martinelli for the next couple of games. Was he our leading scorer last season despite rarely stating a game?

Anyway, 3 points, but that’s about the only positive from the performance. Need to improve dramatically for the big games on the horizon, but that lack of a striker is gonna kill us.

You think Partey and Havertz were the worst players on the pitch? I thought the captain was poor and careless in possession, and I'm surprised you didn't mention Gabriel who is a total retard. He always has a big mistake in him (see Bayern last season) and I am certain he will lose his position to Calafiori by the end of the season. In a game of fine margins, he is a total liability and Arteta has had him on notice for a while now.

[General]

The narrative that Arteta has coached the goodness out of Martinelli must be one of the most bizarre takes ever on here and that’s saying something!

I know there’s people that don’t like the manager but what do we think Arteta did here? Pull Martinelli aside at training one day and tell him to stop burning the full back, driving in to the box scoring goals and creating chances for others?

Whatever you do, don’t do that. Instead every time you have space in behind, turn around and pass it backwards, run the ball out of play or sling in a cross that’s 20 yards over hit.

So if Arteta is to blame for Martinelli’s form going off a cliff he’s to be given credit for any player that’s doing well then I take it. He’s coached the good play into those guys. The 5 players that got in to the PFA team of the season during the week - that was all Arteta’s doing that.

Do you know how bat shit that sounds? Yeah, equally as bat shit as saying he’s coached the good play out of Martinelli.

Martinelli’s form has tanked, it can happen young players. His confidence is no doubt in the shitter but the hope is he can rediscover it. One great run and finish might be enough to spark it and hopefully it comes but for now he should be nowhere near the starting 11.

Martinelli has gone off the boil but he doesn't benefit from an overlapping full back like Saka because the left back is inverted. Trossard obviously has the better end product but lacks Martinelli's industry and intensity over 90mins. Temu Pep thinks the best way to manage this tactical dilemma is to share the playing time between them, with neither lasting 90mins, and it's hard to disgaree with his approach.

[Retro Gunner]

The narrative that Arteta has coached the goodness out of Martinelli must be one of the most bizarre takes ever on here and that’s saying something!

I know there’s people that don’t like the manager but what do we think Arteta did here? Pull Martinelli aside at training one day and tell him to stop burning the full back, driving in to the box scoring goals and creating chances for others?

Whatever you do, don’t do that. Instead every time you have space in behind, turn around and pass it backwards, run the ball out of play or sling in a cross that’s 20 yards over hit.

So if Arteta is to blame for Martinelli’s form going off a cliff he’s to be given credit for any player that’s doing well then I take it. He’s coached the good play into those guys. The 5 players that got in to the PFA team of the season during the week - that was all Arteta’s doing that.

Do you know how bat shit that sounds? Yeah, equally as bat shit as saying he’s coached the good play out of Martinelli.

Martinelli’s form has tanked, it can happen young players. His confidence is no doubt in the shitter but the hope is he can rediscover it. One great run and finish might be enough to spark it and hopefully it comes but for now he should be nowhere near the starting 11.

Fair enough Rodders, given my post just a few above yours, I’ll assume yours aimed at me as well as a few others.

I did stress that I had a “suspicion” that Martinelli’s cavalier style had been coached out of him, because we can’t know for sure, but it wouldn’t be unusual. Wenger clearly altered the attacking style of a few wide players and for possession obsessed managers like Wenger and Arteta, keeping the ball and padding endlessly across and backwards, seems preferable to taking a chance and losing possession.

I think we all agree that Martinelli hasn’t been the same player for a good couple of years and that original instinct to take the full back on and to go for goal is a distant memory. What we see now is him stopping, turning back and laying the ball off sideways or backwards. If that wasn’t what Arteta wanted, then why would he have put up with it for two years? He’s had Trossard sitting getting splinters in his arse and could easily have picked him ahead of Martinelli, as he did for a handful of games last season. He’s also had Nelson in the squad, so it’s not as though he was lumbered with Gabbi as his only option.

You may be right and Martinelli is just in a bad run of form and poor confidence, but it’s been going on for a fucking long time and I don’t think it unreasonable to suspect that he’s following orders.

[Redarmy]

The narrative that Arteta has coached the goodness out of Martinelli must be one of the most bizarre takes ever on here and that’s saying something!

I know there’s people that don’t like the manager but what do we think Arteta did here? Pull Martinelli aside at training one day and tell him to stop burning the full back, driving in to the box scoring goals and creating chances for others?

Whatever you do, don’t do that. Instead every time you have space in behind, turn around and pass it backwards, run the ball out of play or sling in a cross that’s 20 yards over hit.

So if Arteta is to blame for Martinelli’s form going off a cliff he’s to be given credit for any player that’s doing well then I take it. He’s coached the good play into those guys. The 5 players that got in to the PFA team of the season during the week - that was all Arteta’s doing that.

Do you know how bat shit that sounds? Yeah, equally as bat shit as saying he’s coached the good play out of Martinelli.

Martinelli’s form has tanked, it can happen young players. His confidence is no doubt in the shitter but the hope is he can rediscover it. One great run and finish might be enough to spark it and hopefully it comes but for now he should be nowhere near the starting 11.

That's just over simplistic though Rodders. I don't think anyone is saying Arteta actively tried to make Martinelli a bad player.

But Martinelli a couple seasons ago was far more adventurous on the ball, and looked like he was developing into a world class player. But he has now become a player that often looks to be playing within himself, afraid to express himself and far too often turns back or infield too early with the ball.

What caused that?

Some people say Arteta has coached him to fit in a system that does not suit the more adventurous and individually skilled players. Some say Martinelli has peaked and never had that next level ability to begin with.

I'm caught somewhere in the middle. I think both Martinelli and Arteta might be to blame, if there is blame to apportion. I think Martinelli in the right team might be top class. Equally I think Arteta has a vision for his team and maybe Martinelli is not the right player for that vision.

Sport, not just football but other sports too, has become FAR too obsessed with stats imo - is it possible martinelli has been chewed out over losing possession too much and is now opting for the safer 5-10 yard backwards or sidewards pass ? Steve O last season openly bemoaned how our style of football had regressed from season before and had got slower and built around maintaining possession - is it a coincidence that the season before (22/23) was the last season that martinelli looked at his best ? As a team we were more dynamic and explosive then, and often blitzed teams into submission - slow and intricate build up play does not suit martinelli's skill set cos he is all about pace

Btw this is not my having a pop at the cone boy or blaming him - team tactics have to suit the majority not the minority, and it could be that is exactly what the cone boy thinks he is doing. I do know that judging by trossards body language when he scored yesterday, the cone boy could have a problem coming down the tracks cos trossard wont stay quiet if he feels he isnt getting a fair shout

yes went to a few away games that season...fast flowing attacking football we was destroying teams.....remember arteta saying at season end he wants to move to possession football where there is less risk of conceding....following season we were more consistent and got a higher points total
hard to knock him as our points total has gone up nearly every season...and if it wernt for the cheats city we would have surely been champions

[OneBardGooner]

What a save from Raya.

I can't stop watching it.

Unreal.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2Ff_v_eSNeY