Villa vulvas A Sat 24th Aug KO 1730

[OneBardGooner]

As to the Martinelli debate/discussion/ argument??? (take your pick)

We all know he is a very good player, also that young players (He's 23yrs of age) will go through Highs & Lows in terms of Form, Confidence, Fitness levels.

He hasn't suddenly become a Bad player, it is a 'Form' thing. It could be confidence or whatever. I think (& hope) he returns to his best form.

Even when he is playing well, he does have flaws in his game; as all players do. He needs to look up more when he's attacking/going forward, like last week against Wolves he tried to score; which is fair enough, but maybe he had a better option to pull it back to Decca's ???

Confidence affects decision making so maybe that's what it is. I fully expect and look forward to seeing him return to his best form terrorising defenders and providing assists again before not too long.

[Stuart L (2)]

The narrative that Arteta has coached the goodness out of Martinelli must be one of the most bizarre takes ever on here and that’s saying something!

I know there’s people that don’t like the manager but what do we think Arteta did here? Pull Martinelli aside at training one day and tell him to stop burning the full back, driving in to the box scoring goals and creating chances for others?

Whatever you do, don’t do that. Instead every time you have space in behind, turn around and pass it backwards, run the ball out of play or sling in a cross that’s 20 yards over hit.

So if Arteta is to blame for Martinelli’s form going off a cliff he’s to be given credit for any player that’s doing well then I take it. He’s coached the good play into those guys. The 5 players that got in to the PFA team of the season during the week - that was all Arteta’s doing that.

Do you know how bat shit that sounds? Yeah, equally as bat shit as saying he’s coached the good play out of Martinelli.

Martinelli’s form has tanked, it can happen young players. His confidence is no doubt in the shitter but the hope is he can rediscover it. One great run and finish might be enough to spark it and hopefully it comes but for now he should be nowhere near the starting 11.

But you are being objective Rodders and not being driven by a personal agenda to slate the manager who is making those who loudly proclaimed he would be an utter disaster look foolish and even more foolish for not being man enough to admit they were wrong.

We all slagged Wenker for his myopic, narcissistic attitude, yet it is on here in abundance, if you don’t toe the party line.

Ah Christ he's back on his period again....

Seriously though, I don't know where this silliness of there being a "party line" or an "agenda" on here comes from. It's a forum. People will post opposing views. Not sure why some posters get so personally affected by a stranger posting something negative about a player or manager that they don't even know!

I find that sentence "making those who loudly proclaimed he would be an utter disaster look foolish and even more foolish for not being man enough to admit they were wrong" particularly strange Stu. Is that what it's about? I'm right you are wrong nah nah nah!

But my response would be why would they "feel foolish for not being man enough to admit they got something wrong" when they don't believe they are fully wrong? Is that not an attempt at forcing in a party line? Everyone should agree that Arteta is a massive success that has proven his doubters wrong?

In what way has Arteta proven them wrong? By winning the league?

But that's not really even the proper narrative anymore.

In fairness, most posters have agreed that Arteta has improved us from what we were. But does that make him an unbridled success? Is that enough to make it wrong to critique him as a manager? He was poor when he took over. Even his biggest fans would admit that.

Personally I think he was shit when he came in. Completely inexperienced and not up to the job. But he has improved. And he has improved the team.

My problem with him now is I think he has probably taken us as far as he can. I don't believe he has what it takes to take the next step and win the league. Should I admit I'm wrong now, when he still hasn't won the league? After five years and spending over 700million?

Hopefully I'm wrong, and he does win that title, but that remains to be seen. In the meantime when he drops a clanger I for one will criticise him for it. As is right and proper on a football forum whose aim is to not be over run with drooling fanboys that know nothing about the game but want to be seen as superfans. That last bit is not a dig at anyone but rather a general mission statement for the forum.

So anyone who can give Arteta credit for taking City to the last game of the season is ‘ a drooling fanboy’ and know nothing about the game

It’s that kind of nonsense which has made the forum rapidly go down hill.

When Arteta was appointed the poll was put up and he would be an utter fucking disaster was the clear winner with 44 %,

Has he won the league yet, no, but nobody bar city have for 4 years, unprecedented, even in our 30’s heyday, Liverpools legendary 70’s / 80’s title and European cup galore winning teams or Utd under Fergie.

[DB10GOONER]

The narrative that Arteta has coached the goodness out of Martinelli must be one of the most bizarre takes ever on here and that’s saying something!

I know there’s people that don’t like the manager but what do we think Arteta did here? Pull Martinelli aside at training one day and tell him to stop burning the full back, driving in to the box scoring goals and creating chances for others?

Whatever you do, don’t do that. Instead every time you have space in behind, turn around and pass it backwards, run the ball out of play or sling in a cross that’s 20 yards over hit.

So if Arteta is to blame for Martinelli’s form going off a cliff he’s to be given credit for any player that’s doing well then I take it. He’s coached the good play into those guys. The 5 players that got in to the PFA team of the season during the week - that was all Arteta’s doing that.

Do you know how bat shit that sounds? Yeah, equally as bat shit as saying he’s coached the good play out of Martinelli.

Martinelli’s form has tanked, it can happen young players. His confidence is no doubt in the shitter but the hope is he can rediscover it. One great run and finish might be enough to spark it and hopefully it comes but for now he should be nowhere near the starting 11.

But you are being objective Rodders and not being driven by a personal agenda to slate the manager who is making those who loudly proclaimed he would be an utter disaster look foolish and even more foolish for not being man enough to admit they were wrong.

We all slagged Wenker for his myopic, narcissistic attitude, yet it is on here in abundance, if you don’t toe the party line.

Ah Christ he's back on his period again....

Seriously though, I don't know where this silliness of there being a "party line" or an "agenda" on here comes from. It's a forum. People will post opposing views. Not sure why some posters get so personally affected by a stranger posting something negative about a player or manager that they don't even know!

I find that sentence "making those who loudly proclaimed he would be an utter disaster look foolish and even more foolish for not being man enough to admit they were wrong" particularly strange Stu. Is that what it's about? I'm right you are wrong nah nah nah!

But my response would be why would they "feel foolish for not being man enough to admit they got something wrong" when they don't believe they are fully wrong? Is that not an attempt at forcing in a party line? Everyone should agree that Arteta is a massive success that has proven his doubters wrong?

In what way has Arteta proven them wrong? By winning the league?

But that's not really even the proper narrative anymore.

In fairness, most posters have agreed that Arteta has improved us from what we were. But does that make him an unbridled success? Is that enough to make it wrong to critique him as a manager? He was poor when he took over. Even his biggest fans would admit that.

Personally I think he was shit when he came in. Completely inexperienced and not up to the job. But he has improved. And he has improved the team.

My problem with him now is I think he has probably taken us as far as he can. I don't believe he has what it takes to take the next step and win the league. Should I admit I'm wrong now, when he still hasn't won the league? After five years and spending over 700million?

Hopefully I'm wrong, and he does win that title, but that remains to be seen. In the meantime when he drops a clanger I for one will criticise him for it. As is right and proper on a football forum whose aim is to not be over run with drooling fanboys that know nothing about the game but want to be seen as superfans. That last bit is not a dig at anyone but rather a general mission statement for the forum.

So anyone who can give Arteta credit for taking City to the last game of the season is ‘ a drooling fanboy’ and know nothing about the game

It’s that kind of nonsense which has made the forum rapidly go down hill.

When Arteta was appointed the poll was put up and he would be an utter fucking disaster was the clear winner with 44 %,

Has he won the league yet, no, but nobody bar city have for 4 years, unprecedented, even in our 30’s heyday, Liverpools legendary 70’s / 80’s title and European cup galore winning teams or Utd under Fergie.

Oh for fucks sake. I don't know what has gotten up your ass on here in the last few months, but fuck me you are now actively misreading what I write - to what end? Try score some kind of point? Whilst avoiding actually really providing any constructive counter argument beyind "well other teams haven’t won it either".

If you are just gonna be pissed off with everyone else's opinion on here, why bother being on here?

And now before you try twist that or misread it, I'm not saying you are not welcome on here ffs. I'm saying if you hate it and your fellow posters so much why go through the torment of reading their posts?

[rodders999]

My post about attributing Martinelli’s dip in form to Arteta’s coaching style wasn’t aimed at one particular poster as It’s a point that’s cropped up here several times over the course of the last year or so.

For me his game hasn’t changed massively, he still takes the full back on a lot and charges down the wing and gets a shot/cross off. The big problem is the end quality has nose dived. Over hit crosses, running the ball over the end line with his head down and his goals and assists contributions have dried up as a result.

His confidence is clearly shot which is why he now passes it safely backwards and sideways more than he ever did.

The alarm bells really went off for me in what a lot of people would say was his best game for us last season. I can’t actually remember the opposition but it was a home champions league game where he destroyed the full back all game. He must have skinned him 20 times during the game. I remember Keown saying on comms that the full back would be having nightmares after the game as he was chasing shadows.

But the big problem? Not once after those 20 odd times beating his man did he manage to square it to a team mate to get a shot off or hit the target with a strike himself. Every single ball he squandered.

Nothing has clicked for him in ages and I’m
now at the stage where when he is bursting down the wing I fully expect him to fuck away possession at the end of it.

Trossard got 17 goals and 2 assists for us in all competitions last season playing in the same position so whatever the coaching requirement is for playing there is it’s certainly not stifling his game.

[OneBardGooner]

Thing is it is difficult to know when or if to put him on the bench and play Trossard instead. From Trossard's reaction after scoring yesterday's Very Important goal, it's easy to see he is seriously fucked off about not being played form the start; and understandably so....

So if he does bench Martinelli he (Martinelli) either will either go into further decline of wake-up and improve his game (my bet is on the latter)... Even so I think Trossard should start ahead of him and then see what happens.

With Timber still settling in at LB he needs someone who is playing their best in front of him ie: Trossard.

As someone said to me yesterday after the game... Imagine if we'd had zinchenko at LB and a mis-firing Martinelli on the Left flank.... for sure we would have lost.

So Timber at LB and Trossard on the Left Wing... Sorted.

[Kingralph]

Martinelli is this teams Theo Walcott. Sad but true

[Stuart L (2)]

The narrative that Arteta has coached the goodness out of Martinelli must be one of the most bizarre takes ever on here and that’s saying something!

I know there’s people that don’t like the manager but what do we think Arteta did here? Pull Martinelli aside at training one day and tell him to stop burning the full back, driving in to the box scoring goals and creating chances for others?

Whatever you do, don’t do that. Instead every time you have space in behind, turn around and pass it backwards, run the ball out of play or sling in a cross that’s 20 yards over hit.

So if Arteta is to blame for Martinelli’s form going off a cliff he’s to be given credit for any player that’s doing well then I take it. He’s coached the good play into those guys. The 5 players that got in to the PFA team of the season during the week - that was all Arteta’s doing that.

Do you know how bat shit that sounds? Yeah, equally as bat shit as saying he’s coached the good play out of Martinelli.

Martinelli’s form has tanked, it can happen young players. His confidence is no doubt in the shitter but the hope is he can rediscover it. One great run and finish might be enough to spark it and hopefully it comes but for now he should be nowhere near the starting 11.

But you are being objective Rodders and not being driven by a personal agenda to slate the manager who is making those who loudly proclaimed he would be an utter disaster look foolish and even more foolish for not being man enough to admit they were wrong.

We all slagged Wenker for his myopic, narcissistic attitude, yet it is on here in abundance, if you don’t toe the party line.

Ah Christ he's back on his period again....

Seriously though, I don't know where this silliness of there being a "party line" or an "agenda" on here comes from. It's a forum. People will post opposing views. Not sure why some posters get so personally affected by a stranger posting something negative about a player or manager that they don't even know!

I find that sentence "making those who loudly proclaimed he would be an utter disaster look foolish and even more foolish for not being man enough to admit they were wrong" particularly strange Stu. Is that what it's about? I'm right you are wrong nah nah nah!

But my response would be why would they "feel foolish for not being man enough to admit they got something wrong" when they don't believe they are fully wrong? Is that not an attempt at forcing in a party line? Everyone should agree that Arteta is a massive success that has proven his doubters wrong?

In what way has Arteta proven them wrong? By winning the league?

But that's not really even the proper narrative anymore.

In fairness, most posters have agreed that Arteta has improved us from what we were. But does that make him an unbridled success? Is that enough to make it wrong to critique him as a manager? He was poor when he took over. Even his biggest fans would admit that.

Personally I think he was shit when he came in. Completely inexperienced and not up to the job. But he has improved. And he has improved the team.

My problem with him now is I think he has probably taken us as far as he can. I don't believe he has what it takes to take the next step and win the league. Should I admit I'm wrong now, when he still hasn't won the league? After five years and spending over 700million?

Hopefully I'm wrong, and he does win that title, but that remains to be seen. In the meantime when he drops a clanger I for one will criticise him for it. As is right and proper on a football forum whose aim is to not be over run with drooling fanboys that know nothing about the game but want to be seen as superfans. That last bit is not a dig at anyone but rather a general mission statement for the forum.

So anyone who can give Arteta credit for taking City to the last game of the season is ‘ a drooling fanboy’ and know nothing about the game

It’s that kind of nonsense which has made the forum rapidly go down hill.

When Arteta was appointed the poll was put up and he would be an utter fucking disaster was the clear winner with 44 %,

Has he won the league yet, no, but nobody bar city have for 4 years, unprecedented, even in our 30’s heyday, Liverpools legendary 70’s / 80’s title and European cup galore winning teams or Utd under Fergie.

Oh for fucks sake. I don't know what has gotten up your ass on here in the last few months, but fuck me you are now actively misreading what I write - to what end? Try score some kind of point? Whilst avoiding actually really providing any constructive counter argument beyind "well other teams haven’t won it either".

If you are just gonna be pissed off with everyone else's opinion on here, why bother being on here?

And now before you try twist that or misread it, I'm not saying you are not welcome on here ffs. I'm saying if you hate it and your fellow posters so much why go through the torment of reading their posts?

I’m certainly not pissed off with everyone else’s opinion ( sweeping generalisation ) but I’m no longer going to ignore the absolute bullshit and bile that gets posted either that has been accepted.

[DB10GOONER]

But you are being objective Rodders and not being driven by a personal agenda to slate the manager who is making those who loudly proclaimed he would be an utter disaster look foolish and even more foolish for not being man enough to admit they were wrong.

We all slagged Wenker for his myopic, narcissistic attitude, yet it is on here in abundance, if you don’t toe the party line.

Ah Christ he's back on his period again....

Seriously though, I don't know where this silliness of there being a "party line" or an "agenda" on here comes from. It's a forum. People will post opposing views. Not sure why some posters get so personally affected by a stranger posting something negative about a player or manager that they don't even know!

I find that sentence "making those who loudly proclaimed he would be an utter disaster look foolish and even more foolish for not being man enough to admit they were wrong" particularly strange Stu. Is that what it's about? I'm right you are wrong nah nah nah!

But my response would be why would they "feel foolish for not being man enough to admit they got something wrong" when they don't believe they are fully wrong? Is that not an attempt at forcing in a party line? Everyone should agree that Arteta is a massive success that has proven his doubters wrong?

In what way has Arteta proven them wrong? By winning the league?

But that's not really even the proper narrative anymore.

In fairness, most posters have agreed that Arteta has improved us from what we were. But does that make him an unbridled success? Is that enough to make it wrong to critique him as a manager? He was poor when he took over. Even his biggest fans would admit that.

Personally I think he was shit when he came in. Completely inexperienced and not up to the job. But he has improved. And he has improved the team.

My problem with him now is I think he has probably taken us as far as he can. I don't believe he has what it takes to take the next step and win the league. Should I admit I'm wrong now, when he still hasn't won the league? After five years and spending over 700million?

Hopefully I'm wrong, and he does win that title, but that remains to be seen. In the meantime when he drops a clanger I for one will criticise him for it. As is right and proper on a football forum whose aim is to not be over run with drooling fanboys that know nothing about the game but want to be seen as superfans. That last bit is not a dig at anyone but rather a general mission statement for the forum.

So anyone who can give Arteta credit for taking City to the last game of the season is ‘ a drooling fanboy’ and know nothing about the game

It’s that kind of nonsense which has made the forum rapidly go down hill.

When Arteta was appointed the poll was put up and he would be an utter fucking disaster was the clear winner with 44 %,

Has he won the league yet, no, but nobody bar city have for 4 years, unprecedented, even in our 30’s heyday, Liverpools legendary 70’s / 80’s title and European cup galore winning teams or Utd under Fergie.

Oh for fucks sake. I don't know what has gotten up your ass on here in the last few months, but fuck me you are now actively misreading what I write - to what end? Try score some kind of point? Whilst avoiding actually really providing any constructive counter argument beyind "well other teams haven’t won it either".

If you are just gonna be pissed off with everyone else's opinion on here, why bother being on here?

And now before you try twist that or misread it, I'm not saying you are not welcome on here ffs. I'm saying if you hate it and your fellow posters so much why go through the torment of reading their posts?

I’m certainly not pissed off with everyone else’s opinion ( sweeping generalisation ) but I’m no longer going to ignore the absolute bullshit and bile that gets posted either that has been accepted.

"Accepted"? What other course is there? Delete it? Is that not over modding? Is that not micro managing? Would that not be "an agenda"?

The more negative or realistic (whatever description you like) have every right to post their feelings. You have every right to argue your case but to constantly do it by making snide remarks deflates your argument. All I ask is people argue their case, not make snide personal remarks aimed at individuals.

[Redarmy]

My post about attributing Martinelli’s dip in form to Arteta’s coaching style wasn’t aimed at one particular poster as It’s a point that’s cropped up here several times over the course of the last year or so.

For me his game hasn’t changed massively, he still takes the full back on a lot and charges down the wing and gets a shot/cross off. The big problem is the end quality has nose dived. Over hit crosses, running the ball over the end line with his head down and his goals and assists contributions have dried up as a result.

His confidence is clearly shot which is why he now passes it safely backwards and sideways more than he ever did.

The alarm bells really went off for me in what a lot of people would say was his best game for us last season. I can’t actually remember the opposition but it was a home champions league game where he destroyed the full back all game. He must have skinned him 20 times during the game. I remember Keown saying on comms that the full back would be having nightmares after the game as he was chasing shadows.

But the big problem? Not once after those 20 odd times beating his man did he manage to square it to a team mate to get a shot off or hit the target with a strike himself. Every single ball he squandered.

Nothing has clicked for him in ages and I’m
now at the stage where when he is bursting down the wing I fully expect him to fuck away possession at the end of it.

Trossard got 17 goals and 2 assists for us in all competitions last season playing in the same position so whatever the coaching requirement is for playing there is it’s certainly not stifling his game.

Sorry dont agree with bit in red...recently he hardly ever takes on a full back...normally passesback or sideways...hes best when given a fast ball to run onto...slow buid up dont suit him

yes as other posters have mentioned hes heads down and distribution can be erratic....
difficult one as Trossard is very effective as a sub as hes wound up with a point to prove....that said have to play Trossard in my opinion

Always been a fan of Martinelli and hoping he can recapture his form that we know he can deliver

[Nick Nack]

The narrative that Arteta has coached the goodness out of Martinelli must be one of the most bizarre takes ever on here and that’s saying something!

I know there’s people that don’t like the manager but what do we think Arteta did here? Pull Martinelli aside at training one day and tell him to stop burning the full back, driving in to the box scoring goals and creating chances for others?

Whatever you do, don’t do that. Instead every time you have space in behind, turn around and pass it backwards, run the ball out of play or sling in a cross that’s 20 yards over hit.

So if Arteta is to blame for Martinelli’s form going off a cliff he’s to be given credit for any player that’s doing well then I take it. He’s coached the good play into those guys. The 5 players that got in to the PFA team of the season during the week - that was all Arteta’s doing that.

Do you know how bat shit that sounds? Yeah, equally as bat shit as saying he’s coached the good play out of Martinelli.

Martinelli’s form has tanked, it can happen young players. His confidence is no doubt in the shitter but the hope is he can rediscover it. One great run and finish might be enough to spark it and hopefully it comes but for now he should be nowhere near the starting 11.

That's just over simplistic though Rodders. I don't think anyone is saying Arteta actively tried to make Martinelli a bad player.

But Martinelli a couple seasons ago was far more adventurous on the ball, and looked like he was developing into a world class player. But he has now become a player that often looks to be playing within himself, afraid to express himself and far too often turns back or infield too early with the ball.

What caused that?

Some people say Arteta has coached him to fit in a system that does not suit the more adventurous and individually skilled players. Some say Martinelli has peaked and never had that next level ability to begin with.

I'm caught somewhere in the middle. I think both Martinelli and Arteta might be to blame, if there is blame to apportion. I think Martinelli in the right team might be top class. Equally I think Arteta has a vision for his team and maybe Martinelli is not the right player for that vision.

First chance to watch the game fully was today. A few interesting take aways from this.

From the first minute the thing that horrified me was that Timber was playing Diet Pep's inverted full back role almost from the off. This says to me that as shit as Zinchenko is, Diet Pep told him to play like that.

Timber's role was more disciplined than Zinchenko in that he wasn't wandering all over the field without any awareness of what was going on, but on quite a few occasions he had to sprint back into position when the Vaginas came down our left. Timber generally slotted in alongside Partey.

But this pushed Rice further up the field into a weird semi attacking left channel position which neither suites his style of play nor complements the overall team structure. I think this is why he isn't looking as dynamic as last season.

Along with Martinelli's horrible form, our whole left side now looks very, very imbalanced and totally wrong. Martinelli has no overlap as Timber is inverted and no confidence so the ball is always coming back or inside into the space Rice is pushing into.

And the usual suspects don't perform. If Trossard doesn't start ahead of Martinelli next week then the same old questions will be asked about Diet Pep as his selections.

Having said all that, in order to be up there at the end of the season these are the games that we must win And Villa are c.unts. And Ben White deserves a special mention for smashing the ball into the turnip head Mcginn

[Retro Gunner]

Only just watched it. Couldn’t see it in real time, so recorded it and avoided the score. Haven’t read the thread, so apologies if I plagiarise opinions.

Absolute pony game and the first 60 mins particularly painful. Got the win but that shouldn’t disguise how poor we were and if Watkins takes even one of his two chances, then we lost that game.

We’ll win fuck all with two complete donkeys like Havertz and Partey in the side. Havertz offers absolutely nothing up front and is technically barely Championship level. A for Partey, I know he scored (dreadful goalkeeping btw) but he’s not even bang average.

One of the worst performances I’ve seen from Rice, although better in the last 20 mins when things opened up.

I’ve been a huge fan of Martinelli since day one, but it’s getting ever more difficult to mount a defence of him. Very poor today and where is the young player that had us all on the edge of our seats? He seems to have lost all confidence. I suspect that the swashbuckling, cavalier attacking attitude has been drilled out of him by Arteta, but that’s just my suspicion.

It’s now very hard to deny Trossard a starting place. I’ve rated him since his Brighton days and he’s the most natural finisher we’ve got and he’s earned the right to start ahead of Martinelli for the next couple of games. Was he our leading scorer last season despite rarely stating a game?

Anyway, 3 points, but that’s about the only positive from the performance. Need to improve dramatically for the big games on the horizon, but that lack of a striker is gonna kill us.

You think Partey and Havertz were the worst players on the pitch? I thought the captain was poor and careless in possession, and I'm surprised you didn't mention Gabriel who is a total retard. He always has a big mistake in him (see Bayern last season) and I am certain he will lose his position to Calafiori by the end of the season. In a game of fine margins, he is a total liability and Arteta has had him on notice for a while now.

I didn’t say who I thought were the “worst players on the pitch”, what I said was that we’ll win fuck all with Havertz and Partey in the side and that’s based on bundles of past evidence, regardless of yesterday’s game.

That said, I think Havertz was the worst player in the team yesterday, as he usually is. Offered absolutely nothing up front and particularly in the first half, it was easy to forget that he was even playing. Technically hopeless and watch him when he’s facing a player with the ball at his feet…he’ll run straight into them and always loses possession. Partey was barely average yesterday and it’s crystal clear that he’s gone.

Other than Saliba and Raya, no one played particularly well and Rice was poor, as was Martinelli. I wouldn’t have made Odegaard as bad as you say, but he does slow things down too much. Despite Gabriel’s fuck up in the first half, he did his job well, but then I’ve always liked him even though he has the occasional mad moment. The centre of our defence is the last part of the side that we need to be worrying about imo.

[DB10GOONER]

Ah Christ he's back on his period again....

Seriously though, I don't know where this silliness of there being a "party line" or an "agenda" on here comes from. It's a forum. People will post opposing views. Not sure why some posters get so personally affected by a stranger posting something negative about a player or manager that they don't even know!

I find that sentence "making those who loudly proclaimed he would be an utter disaster look foolish and even more foolish for not being man enough to admit they were wrong" particularly strange Stu. Is that what it's about? I'm right you are wrong nah nah nah!

But my response would be why would they "feel foolish for not being man enough to admit they got something wrong" when they don't believe they are fully wrong? Is that not an attempt at forcing in a party line? Everyone should agree that Arteta is a massive success that has proven his doubters wrong?

In what way has Arteta proven them wrong? By winning the league?

But that's not really even the proper narrative anymore.

In fairness, most posters have agreed that Arteta has improved us from what we were. But does that make him an unbridled success? Is that enough to make it wrong to critique him as a manager? He was poor when he took over. Even his biggest fans would admit that.

Personally I think he was shit when he came in. Completely inexperienced and not up to the job. But he has improved. And he has improved the team.

My problem with him now is I think he has probably taken us as far as he can. I don't believe he has what it takes to take the next step and win the league. Should I admit I'm wrong now, when he still hasn't won the league? After five years and spending over 700million?

Hopefully I'm wrong, and he does win that title, but that remains to be seen. In the meantime when he drops a clanger I for one will criticise him for it. As is right and proper on a football forum whose aim is to not be over run with drooling fanboys that know nothing about the game but want to be seen as superfans. That last bit is not a dig at anyone but rather a general mission statement for the forum.

So anyone who can give Arteta credit for taking City to the last game of the season is ‘ a drooling fanboy’ and know nothing about the game

It’s that kind of nonsense which has made the forum rapidly go down hill.

When Arteta was appointed the poll was put up and he would be an utter fucking disaster was the clear winner with 44 %,

Has he won the league yet, no, but nobody bar city have for 4 years, unprecedented, even in our 30’s heyday, Liverpools legendary 70’s / 80’s title and European cup galore winning teams or Utd under Fergie.

Oh for fucks sake. I don't know what has gotten up your ass on here in the last few months, but fuck me you are now actively misreading what I write - to what end? Try score some kind of point? Whilst avoiding actually really providing any constructive counter argument beyind "well other teams haven’t won it either".

If you are just gonna be pissed off with everyone else's opinion on here, why bother being on here?

And now before you try twist that or misread it, I'm not saying you are not welcome on here ffs. I'm saying if you hate it and your fellow posters so much why go through the torment of reading their posts?

I’m certainly not pissed off with everyone else’s opinion ( sweeping generalisation ) but I’m no longer going to ignore the absolute bullshit and bile that gets posted either that has been accepted.

"Accepted"? What other course is there? Delete it? Is that not over modding? Is that not micro managing? Would that not be "an agenda"?

The more negative or realistic (whatever description you like) have every right to post their feelings. You have every right to argue your case but to constantly do it by making snide remarks deflates your argument. All I ask is people argue their case, not make snide personal remarks aimed at individuals.

I should add that I always liked and respected you as a poster on here Stuart. You always struck me as an intelligent good natured person and I hate to see you dislike this forum so much nowadays. Alot of work went into this forum (and a few bannings) to get rid of the vile poisonous atmosphere that was on here towards the end of Wengers reign. We lost a lot of good posters back then because the forum became a pit of vipers. I'd like to think it has moved on from that and anyone that makes a sensible comment would be respected by the majority.

[Retro Gunner]

My post about attributing Martinelli’s dip in form to Arteta’s coaching style wasn’t aimed at one particular poster as It’s a point that’s cropped up here several times over the course of the last year or so.

For me his game hasn’t changed massively, he still takes the full back on a lot and charges down the wing and gets a shot/cross off. The big problem is the end quality has nose dived. Over hit crosses, running the ball over the end line with his head down and his goals and assists contributions have dried up as a result.

His confidence is clearly shot which is why he now passes it safely backwards and sideways more than he ever did.

The alarm bells really went off for me in what a lot of people would say was his best game for us last season. I can’t actually remember the opposition but it was a home champions league game where he destroyed the full back all game. He must have skinned him 20 times during the game. I remember Keown saying on comms that the full back would be having nightmares after the game as he was chasing shadows.

But the big problem? Not once after those 20 odd times beating his man did he manage to square it to a team mate to get a shot off or hit the target with a strike himself. Every single ball he squandered.

Nothing has clicked for him in ages and I’m
now at the stage where when he is bursting down the wing I fully expect him to fuck away possession at the end of it.

Trossard got 17 goals and 2 assists for us in all competitions last season playing in the same position so whatever the coaching requirement is for playing there is it’s certainly not stifling his game.

Some fair points Rodders and I remember the CL game you’re referring to and Martinelli was lacking the final ball. I think Red and augie have made good points about Martinelli having no fullback to work with, as Saka has and the left side being generally weaker.

I do think my point is valid, that his lack of taking people on etc, would have seen him dropped if it wasn’t linked to Arteta’s tactics. Still, he looks jaded and lacking confidence and it’s time to give Trossard a start.

[rodders999]

Yeah Retro, I think the one thing that (everyone?) on the forum would agree on is that the position is Trossard’s until such time that Martinelli can rediscover some form.

It would be mind blowing if Martinelli starts again Saturday.

[Retro Gunner]

Yeah Retro, I think the one thing that (everyone?) on the forum would agree on is that the position is Trossard’s until such time that Martinelli can rediscover some form.

It would be mind blowing if Martinelli starts again Saturday.

It’s actually a bit of a test for Arteta. Trossard made a very clear point yesterday and it kind of backs Arteta into a corner. He’ll look stubborn if he picks Martinelli again, but will he look weak if he picks Trossard? It’s not a good situation tbh.