Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[wilson2.0]

Not being soft touches in defence is so refreshing. The later Wenger days were some real comical times for our backline. Emery never sorted it out either.

Were being recognized as having the best defence in Europe from rivals. Neville and Carragher have so much themselves.

Couldn't give a shit how unattractive the football is.

Think the George Graham analogy is banished to history after yesterday's performance. George would have loved the Arsenal rear guard yesterday in the 2nd half.

I am not having anyone but the top tier managers being touted for Arteta's replacement. I love what he's doing at Arsenal right now, he's taking me back to my youth when I fell in love with the club, because we would fight till the death and not lay down. No longer a soft touch Arsenal.

Arteta is a top tier manager. This guy will win titles and lift the CL one day. I actually believe he can do it here.

When it comes to his exit, most likely scenario is him resigning, but sack him - will never happen

[General]

Not being soft touches in defence is so refreshing. The later Wenger days were some real comical times for our backline. Emery never sorted it out either.

Were being recognized as having the best defence in Europe from rivals. Neville and Carragher have so much themselves.

Couldn't give a shit how unattractive the football is.

Think the George Graham analogy is banished to history after yesterday's performance. George would have loved the Arsenal rear guard yesterday in the 2nd half.

I am not having anyone but the top tier managers being touted for Arteta's replacement. I love what he's doing at Arsenal right now, he's taking me back to my youth when I fell in love with the club, because we would fight till the death and not lay down. No longer a soft touch Arsenal.

Arteta is a top tier manager. This guy will win titles and lift the CL one day. I actually believe he can do it here.

When it comes to his exit, most likely scenario is him resigning, but sack him - will never happen

If he doesn’t win the PL or CL this year, it’s going to be difficult for him to continue. We are up against a state sponsored juggernaut and unless they go off the boil like they did in 2019/20 when Liverpool won it, we are going to be second best again. We scored more goals and conceded fewer last season than the 19/20 Liverpool team who only had an off colour City to contend with, + empty stadiums due to Covid.

[Retro Gunner]

Not being soft touches in defence is so refreshing. The later Wenger days were some real comical times for our backline. Emery never sorted it out either.

Were being recognized as having the best defence in Europe from rivals. Neville and Carragher have so much themselves.

Couldn't give a shit how unattractive the football is.

Think the George Graham analogy is banished to history after yesterday's performance. George would have loved the Arsenal rear guard yesterday in the 2nd half.

I am not having anyone but the top tier managers being touted for Arteta's replacement. I love what he's doing at Arsenal right now, he's taking me back to my youth when I fell in love with the club, because we would fight till the death and not lay down. No longer a soft touch Arsenal.

Arteta is a top tier manager. This guy will win titles and lift the CL one day. I actually believe he can do it here.

When it comes to his exit, most likely scenario is him resigning, but sack him - will never happen

Everyone is a combination of buzzing and furious after yesterday's game, but don't let that cloud your vision. We are poor in the final third and the failure to add a quality goal scorer is going to cost us big time. Like it or not, that's on Arteta. Havertz is fucking useless (and Jesus little better), but the boss loves him. Fatal.

[DB10GOONER]

Not being soft touches in defence is so refreshing. The later Wenger days were some real comical times for our backline. Emery never sorted it out either.

Were being recognized as having the best defence in Europe from rivals. Neville and Carragher have so much themselves.

Couldn't give a shit how unattractive the football is.

Think the George Graham analogy is banished to history after yesterday's performance. George would have loved the Arsenal rear guard yesterday in the 2nd half.

I am not having anyone but the top tier managers being touted for Arteta's replacement. I love what he's doing at Arsenal right now, he's taking me back to my youth when I fell in love with the club, because we would fight till the death and not lay down. No longer a soft touch Arsenal.

Arteta is a top tier manager. This guy will win titles and lift the CL one day. I actually believe he can do it here.

When it comes to his exit, most likely scenario is him resigning, but sack him - will never happen

Everyone is a combination of buzzing and furious after yesterday's game, but don't let that cloud your vision. We are poor in the final third and the failure to add a quality goal scorer is going to cost us big time. Like it or not, that's on Arteta. Havertz is fucking useless (and Jesus little better), but the boss loves him. Fatal.

Absolutely.

Yes we are a better team now because of Arteta, he rightly gets credit for that, but I believe we will never win the PL because of Arteta. Like Wenger, he cannot correct his mistakes because that would be to admit he made a mistake. 

Going into this season with Havertz and Jesus as our first choice strikers is moronic. We the fans can see it, the football reporters and pundits can see it. Everyone can see it except apparently Arteta and Edutard.

Arteta has to win a trophy this year. No excuses. He has built his team and with over 700 million spent. If he has taken us as far as he can then great thanks for your work but move on. How many years should we wait for "the process" to win something? 7, 8, 9, 10? We played that game for the last ten years of Wenger's reign and failing as he was he still delivered 3 FA Cups. Arteta has won one FA Cup with Emerys team. That's not good enough. When do we say enough is enough? 15 years?

[Retro Gunner]

Not being soft touches in defence is so refreshing. The later Wenger days were some real comical times for our backline. Emery never sorted it out either.

Were being recognized as having the best defence in Europe from rivals. Neville and Carragher have so much themselves.

Couldn't give a shit how unattractive the football is.

Think the George Graham analogy is banished to history after yesterday's performance. George would have loved the Arsenal rear guard yesterday in the 2nd half.

I am not having anyone but the top tier managers being touted for Arteta's replacement. I love what he's doing at Arsenal right now, he's taking me back to my youth when I fell in love with the club, because we would fight till the death and not lay down. No longer a soft touch Arsenal.

Arteta is a top tier manager. This guy will win titles and lift the CL one day. I actually believe he can do it here.

When it comes to his exit, most likely scenario is him resigning, but sack him - will never happen

Everyone is a combination of buzzing and furious after yesterday's game, but don't let that cloud your vision. We are poor in the final third and the failure to add a quality goal scorer is going to cost us big time. Like it or not, that's on Arteta. Havertz is fucking useless (and Jesus little better), but the boss loves him. Fatal.

Absolutely.

Yes we are a better team now because of Arteta, he rightly gets credit for that, but I believe we will never win the PL because of Arteta. Like Wenger, he cannot correct his mistakes because that would be to admit he made a mistake. 

Going into this season with Havertz and Jesus as our first choice strikers is moronic. We the fans can see it, the football reporters and pundits can see it. Everyone can see it except apparently Arteta and Edutard.

Arteta has to win a trophy this year. No excuses. He has built his team and with over 700 million spent. If he has taken us as far as he can then great thanks for your work but move on. How many years should we wait for "the process" to win something? 7, 8, 9, 10? We played that game for the last ten years of Wenger's reign and failing as he was he still delivered 3 FA Cups. Arteta has won one FA Cup with Emerys team. That's not good enough. When do we say enough is enough? 15 years?

100% nail on the head. All of it.

[Gunner Rob]

Yes I agree with these points - I think we will fall short because Arteta continues to ignore striker options but I also commend him for -

1. What he has done to the defence. Now at its best for 20 years
2. What he has done for team togetherness

However too many people on here I have noticed are saying that we MUST win a trophy.

Er no we don’t. I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that winning trophies is not really all that important for the top teams these days.
It’s all about what Wenger used to bang on about - the top 4 trophy. Basically this club’s business model is to qualify for the Super League (sorry the Champions League) each season and increasingly this means more matches.

So therefore the domestic cups are getting squeezed more and more and we are just not bothered. Again it started with Wenger - he never took the league cup seriously and so never won it.
Where he deserves credit is that he did take the FA Cup seriously but that is now a pale imitation of what it used to be even 5 years ago. Bottom line is this - we won’t be winning either of them for the foreseeable future.

It is why I am absolutely sick of the enlarged Euro competitions- they are gradually destroying the domestic cups. I just hope they don’t also end up destroying the domestic league.

[augie]

Question for the cone boys fan club -

if by some miracle the oil state cheats are relegated for next season or are even docked 10+ points and we still dont win the league, will your stance on cone boy then change ?? I understand the argument that citeeh are a machine operating on a different level of funding than everyone else, but we are being knocked out of domestic cups by teams who have spent a lot less than us, and are dropping points to lesser funded teams too, so at times I think that it is very convenient for the fan boys to hide behind citeeh's wealth as an excuse. Like I said yesterday, I'm not convinced that we would necessarily win the league if citeeh were not around, but if they were not around there would be no excuse for the cone boy and it would be win or bust imo

[OneBardGooner]

Question for Augie:


If IF Arteta does indeed lead us to Winning the Title or one or two Trophies this season will you accept him as Manager of Arsenal?

[wilson2.0]

So hypothetically we dont win a trophy WE MUST nosebleed a Conte or Tuchel appointment............................why????????????????????????????????????

We have got into this position precisely because we dont make knee jerk reactions.

If we did bin Arteta, rival fans would celebrate

[Retro Gunner]

So hypothetically we dont win a trophy WE MUST nosebleed a Conte or Tuchel appointment............................why????????????????????????????????????

We have got into this position precisely because we dont make knee jerk reactions.

If we did bin Arteta, rival fans would celebrate

How long would you be prepared to go on without a trophy? The manager has been given time and lots of money to follow the "process" and build his own team. What you're looking at every week is exactly as he wants it...this team and the set up is entirely his, so there can be no excuses.

Is there a point at which you'd be prepared to say "No more, you've won nothing since 2020, so time for a change."? If so, when will that be? Bear in mind that the big clubs don't just sit and wait indefinitely.

Can you give a straight answer please and there really is no need to mention Conte, De Zerbi, Tuchel et etc.

[Gunner Rob]

So hypothetically we dont win a trophy WE MUST nosebleed a Conte or Tuchel appointment............................why????????????????????????????????????

We have got into this position precisely because we dont make knee jerk reactions.

If we did bin Arteta, rival fans would celebrate

How long would you be prepared to go on without a trophy? The manager has been given time and lots of money to follow the "process" and build his own team. What you're looking at every week is exactly as he wants it...this team and the set up is entirely his, so there can be no excuses.

Is there a point at which you'd be prepared to say "No more, you've won nothing since 2020, so time for a change."? If so, when will that be? Bear in mind that the big clubs don't just sit and wait indefinitely.

Can you give a straight answer please and there really is no need to mention Conte, De Zerbi, Tuchel et etc.

As I put in my post we are already winning trophies every season.
In the modern era the knock out stage of the CL is given greater importance than a League Cup win.

Now that might not be the case for most of us on here but that’s the sad reality in the modern era.

[Retro Gunner]

So hypothetically we dont win a trophy WE MUST nosebleed a Conte or Tuchel appointment............................why????????????????????????????????????

We have got into this position precisely because we dont make knee jerk reactions.

If we did bin Arteta, rival fans would celebrate

How long would you be prepared to go on without a trophy? The manager has been given time and lots of money to follow the "process" and build his own team. What you're looking at every week is exactly as he wants it...this team and the set up is entirely his, so there can be no excuses.

Is there a point at which you'd be prepared to say "No more, you've won nothing since 2020, so time for a change."? If so, when will that be? Bear in mind that the big clubs don't just sit and wait indefinitely.

Can you give a straight answer please and there really is no need to mention Conte, De Zerbi, Tuchel et etc.

As I put in my post we are already winning trophies every season.
In the modern era the knock out stage of the CL is given greater importance than a League Cup win.

Now that might not be the case for most of us on here but that’s the sad reality in the modern era.

Arsene, is that you??

[OneBardGooner]

[General]

Arteta still has a lot to prove but I’m not sure how he can be blamed for not signing a striker. So he is deliberately sabotaging his own team by declining to sign players we need? Sometimes I read certain posts and log off in disgust. It’s PTSD from the Wenger era and some still haven’t moved on. It’s the same people who convinced themselves the French waffler would never be sacked by Kroenke so didn’t support the protests in 2017.

We scored 91goals last season which was more than the Liverpool team that won the title in 2020. Judging by credible reports, it’s quite clear efforts were made to bring in a striker (Sesko, Gyokeres) or an attacking winger with potential (Nico Wiliams). None of these targets materialised for various reasons and this team is now at a stage where we have to target truly elite talent and not just buy for the sake of buying.

[Retro Gunner]

Arteta still has a lot to prove but I’m not sure how he can be blamed for not signing a striker. So he is deliberately sabotaging his own team by declining to sign players we need? Sometimes I read certain posts and log off in disgust. It’s PTSD from the Wenger era and some still haven’t moved on. It’s the same people who convinced themselves the French waffler would never be sacked by Kroenke so didn’t support the protests in 2017.

We scored 91goals last season which was more than the Liverpool team that won the title in 2020. Judging by credible reports, it’s quite clear efforts were made to bring in a striker (Sesko, Gyokeres) or an attacking winger with potential (Nico Wiliams). None of these targets materialised for various reasons and this team is now at a stage where we have to target truly elite talent and not just buy for the sake of buying.

Sorry General, but I'm not buying that. Whose fault is it that he didn't buy the striker that most of us think we need? We can't blame Kroenke for that and while Edu is heavily involved, it's Arteta who's in the big chair and ultimately makes the decisions.

A CF and a centre mid were the two vital positions to fill and while it remains to be seen how good Merino will be, he failed to buy a striker. I've only seen Sesko in the Euros, where he was poor and I know nothing about Gyokeres, other than he was at Coventry prior to Sporting and that doesn't fill me with confidence, perhaps unfairly. Fact remains, he failed to find an improvement on Havertz and Jesus, which really isn't a difficult task....he should have had a look over Hackney Marshes. Signing a striker should have dominated his thinking all summer.

I said all along that he wouldn't buy a striker, because he's convinced by Havertz and Jesus (how the latter wasn't sold this summer is beyond me). I've said all along that the inexplicable devotion to Havertz will be the rock that sinks Arteta...or should be if we win fuck all.

It doesn't matter how many goals we scored, we have two strikers that simply don't and won't score anywhere near enough goals. We need a minimum 20 league goals a season striker if we're to win the top prizes and out two will do well to hit that target jointly. There's a barmy idea that a goal scoring striker would dilute the goals from other areas, but that is a crap notion. It's the failure to convert chances that is the problem with our two, plus there inability to be where a striker needs to be.

Seems to me that Arteta is following the false 9 concept that Pep was using when Arteta was at City, but quite apart from our attacking midfielders not being at the level City had, look what's happened since the out and out striker Haaland was signed.

It's on Arteta, no one else.

Oh, as for the people tha wanted Wenger out, it was those on here that were fully behind the protests that are the ones questioning Arteta'a failure to sign a striker.