Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[DB10GOONER]

I think the upcoming chav game might be a turning point for Arteta. If we take a hiding off those rent boy cùnts I think alot of the less vocal on the fence fans will start to call for his head. And unfortunately we might see the return of the sad split in the fan base that Wengers later tenure caused.

As for me, I'm done with him. He has improved us from where we were when he took over, only a moron would say he hasn't. But that is all he has done. Improved us. We are less shit than we were. Almost any half intelligent manager could do that with 800 million quid.

For 5 years and 800 million quid we should be seeing trophies, even if they are only cups. We should be seeing sustained challenges for the title. We should be seeing an ever improving squad. What we have is one, maybe two half decent pushes for the title that both collapsed when the pressure was on and a paper thin squad with no actual goal scoring striker to speak of.

His ego is his weakness. That and his inexperience of managing a top club that is expected to challenge for silverware.

Unfortunately I don't think he will be going anywhere soon and I fear we will now slowly plunge into the terrible half decade death dive that we saw with Wenger before empty seats and fan disinterest finally push the kroenkes to pull the trigger, far too late.

You generally look for continual progress don't you, and can anyone say this year that has been the case? The team haven't been playing anywhere near the levels they did for most of last season and three quarters of the previous one. I wasn't joking when I said how boring this team is to watch. Everyone forgives success - when Maureen was grinding out 1-0 wins and winning titles nobody from those clubs cared. We didn't care when we were doing it to the Spuds. But in amongst that is a shit boring product that as soon as the results stop, the style (or lack of) becomes an issue. Moyes, Fat Sam, Pulis - on a lesser scale than Maureen, elevated their clubs and people bought into it, but as soon as results turned then that awful, dull as fuck football became a serious issue. What we're seeing now is the same performances that ground out shithouse boring 1-0 wins, becoming 1-0 defeats. Score first, ok. Don't score first, not ok.

He's won an FA Cup with Emery's team during COVID and taken the team to a final day title challenge. Apart from that we've been god awful in Europe and the domestic cups, and our title challenge at best the previous season fell apart in April.

100% on the money mate. I could accept this dire tippy tappy 1930s paced dullathon type football we are playing if we were winning trophies with it. But to be playing like this and not winning trophies and losing some of the games we have in the style we have? I can only classify that as failure.

[Gunner Rob]

I’m going to be very generous to Arteta and give him to the end of the season.
Let’s face it he has done well in the past couple of seasons. They were credible title challenges.

The issue I have got with him more is the lack of competing in the cups. It does rather suggest that his in game management is poor. In one off cup games he clearly doesn’t have what it takes to adapt. He really does need to take the league cup seriously this season.

This is why I have been banging on about the CL and resting players - we will qualify for the round of 24. There is no point sacrificing everything else trying to qualify in a top 8 position.

[Perryashburtongroves]

He can have until the end of the season and if we don't win anything he needs to go before we end up with a full-on repeat of 2008-18. At the moment, he's a Brendon Rogers comparison; got close to winning a title with a few good players who were all in form at the same time but reality has set in as it did with Brenda. We can't go back to the years of "give him time", "one more year", "next season will be the year" as that will just lead to where we ended up by 2018. Be ruthless, set a standard and expectation and if he isn't achieving it, replace him with someone who can.

[augie]

I think the upcoming chav game might be a turning point for Arteta. If we take a hiding off those rent boy cùnts I think alot of the less vocal on the fence fans will start to call for his head. And unfortunately we might see the return of the sad split in the fan base that Wengers later tenure caused.

As for me, I'm done with him. He has improved us from where we were when he took over, only a moron would say he hasn't. But that is all he has done. Improved us. We are less shit than we were. Almost any half intelligent manager could do that with 800 million quid.

For 5 years and 800 million quid we should be seeing trophies, even if they are only cups. We should be seeing sustained challenges for the title. We should be seeing an ever improving squad. What we have is one, maybe two half decent pushes for the title that both collapsed when the pressure was on and a paper thin squad with no actual goal scoring striker to speak of.

His ego is his weakness. That and his inexperience of managing a top club that is expected to challenge for silverware.

Unfortunately I don't think he will be going anywhere soon and I fear we will now slowly plunge into the terrible half decade death dive that we saw with Wenger before empty seats and fan disinterest finally push the kroenkes to pull the trigger, far too late.

I absolutely agree that his ego is "a weakness", but I no longer see it is "THE weakness" - I would seriously question his judgement on players both from a recruitment point of view and selling point of view, plus the team selection issue is glaring. A lack of trust in young players was very evident in his early days with smith-rowe and saka and martinelli, and now it is showing again with Nwanieri. His in game management has been dogshit from day one and hasnt improved a jot. The man has a lot of weaknesses but in fairness his english is good and as long as he can say "good evening" properly we will be alright

[DB10GOONER]

I think the upcoming chav game might be a turning point for Arteta. If we take a hiding off those rent boy cùnts I think alot of the less vocal on the fence fans will start to call for his head. And unfortunately we might see the return of the sad split in the fan base that Wengers later tenure caused.

As for me, I'm done with him. He has improved us from where we were when he took over, only a moron would say he hasn't. But that is all he has done. Improved us. We are less shit than we were. Almost any half intelligent manager could do that with 800 million quid.

For 5 years and 800 million quid we should be seeing trophies, even if they are only cups. We should be seeing sustained challenges for the title. We should be seeing an ever improving squad. What we have is one, maybe two half decent pushes for the title that both collapsed when the pressure was on and a paper thin squad with no actual goal scoring striker to speak of.

His ego is his weakness. That and his inexperience of managing a top club that is expected to challenge for silverware.

Unfortunately I don't think he will be going anywhere soon and I fear we will now slowly plunge into the terrible half decade death dive that we saw with Wenger before empty seats and fan disinterest finally push the kroenkes to pull the trigger, far too late.

I absolutely agree that his ego is "a weakness", but I no longer see it is "THE weakness" - I would seriously question his judgement on players both from a recruitment point of view and selling point of view, plus the team selection issue is glaring. A lack of trust in young players was very evident in his early days with smith-rowe and saka and martinelli, and now it is showing again with Nwanieri. His in game management has been dogshit from day one and hasnt improved a jot. The man has a lot of weaknesses but in fairness his english is good and as long as he can say "good evening" properly we will be alright

Good ebening!

I think though his ego is the root problem. All his other faults, and there are many, all stem from his ego.

[General]

For 5 years and 800 million quid we should be seeing trophies, even if they are only cups. We should be seeing sustained challenges for the title. We should be seeing an ever improving squad. What we have is one, maybe two half decent pushes for the title that both collapsed when the pressure was on and a paper thin squad with no actual goal scoring striker to speak of.

I see this claim repeated a lot on this forum a lot. Of course it conveniently ignores the mess that Wenger left behind, not to mention the expensive salvage operation that had to follow which completely overwhelmed Emery. Plenty admitted on this forum that we'd become a midtable side because we'd sunk so low and our problems were uniquely unprecedented. All of a sudden we should be seeing sustained title challenges. There are at least 3 clubs who have spent more money in the period you quoted and we've done better than all 3. Man United and Chelsea (post Ruski) have tried every conceivable approach to become successful from excessive spending to hiring and firing managers and it hasn't worked. This is not to say that we should stick with Arteta but until we find a way to bring in truly elite players, the manager is not a significant consideration for me. FFFP rules limit what we can spend anyway so that's another hindrance. A new manager would bring his own raft of problems and create new debating lines for insatiable Arsenal fans.

[OneBardGooner]

For 5 years and 800 million quid we should be seeing trophies, even if they are only cups. We should be seeing sustained challenges for the title. We should be seeing an ever improving squad. What we have is one, maybe two half decent pushes for the title that both collapsed when the pressure was on and a paper thin squad with no actual goal scoring striker to speak of.

I see this claim repeated a lot on this forum a lot. Of course it conveniently ignores the mess that Wenger left behind, not to mention the expensive salvage operation that had to follow which completely overwhelmed Emery. Plenty admitted on this forum that we'd become a midtable side because we'd sunk so low and our problems were uniquely unprecedented. All of a sudden we should be seeing sustained title challenges. There are at least 3 clubs who have spent more money in the period you quoted and we've done better than all 3. Man United and Chelsea (post Ruski) have tried every conceivable approach to become successful from excessive spending to hiring and firing managers and it hasn't worked. This is not to say that we should stick with Arteta but until we find a way to bring in truly elite players, the manager is not a significant consideration for me. FFFP rules limit what we can spend anyway so that's another hindrance. A new manager would bring his own raft of problems and create new debating lines for insatiable Arsenal fans.

Having popped in occasionally to have a check out this thread I promised myself I wouldn't get involved as it meanders and winds its way towards becoming indulgent and boring in its tit for tat type posts.

To the best of my knowledge No-one has ignored the Fact that the Senile, Despotic Greedy Fucker that was Wenger in his last 12 years of Managing (all things) Arsenal.. Had left the Club, Players, Coaching & Training Staff, the Finances and Fans in an absolute Shit Show of a Mess to the point that it was teetering on the edge of a crumbling cliff. Which is why that BaldyCUNT Gazidis jumped ship when he saw the extent of the damage that had been done and the HUGE task it was going to take to Fix it.

Unai Emery is a very good manager, but anyone coming in to the Shit Show of a Circus that Wenger had left in his enforced departure was always going to be on a hiding to nothing.

Emery did a great job considering and he laid some of the ground work for when Arteta took over.

It was Arteta that set out his plan (a 6 year renewal) of one of the biggest clubs in English football.

He has re-united the fans from the Warring Factions they had become (and although there are some who think Arteta is the Messiah, whilst some who think he should go now or at the end of the season. But there are those who occupy the Middle-Ground; I would say the Majority who are willing to give him more time).

He has made some Very Good signings: Rice, Raya, Havertz and Trossard. Also some Bad one's Jesus & Zinchenko, also Marquinhos, Lakonga and Tavares who just haven't worked .... Having said that ANY Signing is always a Gamble.

He has also Ignored the Desperate Need for a Striker, even those who see him as the Messiah say we need one.

The Kroenke's will stick with him and back him for the foreseeable future (this and next season) But should he not deliver either the Prem Title, a European Trophy and the FA or League Cup... He will be gone.

And even if that happens he will have changed the "Culture" at the club for the better on many levels.

[General]

For 5 years and 800 million quid we should be seeing trophies, even if they are only cups. We should be seeing sustained challenges for the title. We should be seeing an ever improving squad. What we have is one, maybe two half decent pushes for the title that both collapsed when the pressure was on and a paper thin squad with no actual goal scoring striker to speak of.

I see this claim repeated a lot on this forum a lot. Of course it conveniently ignores the mess that Wenger left behind, not to mention the expensive salvage operation that had to follow which completely overwhelmed Emery. Plenty admitted on this forum that we'd become a midtable side because we'd sunk so low and our problems were uniquely unprecedented. All of a sudden we should be seeing sustained title challenges. There are at least 3 clubs who have spent more money in the period you quoted and we've done better than all 3. Man United and Chelsea (post Ruski) have tried every conceivable approach to become successful from excessive spending to hiring and firing managers and it hasn't worked. This is not to say that we should stick with Arteta but until we find a way to bring in truly elite players, the manager is not a significant consideration for me. FFFP rules limit what we can spend anyway so that's another hindrance. A new manager would bring his own raft of problems and create new debating lines for insatiable Arsenal fans.

Having popped in occasionally to have a check out this thread I promised myself I wouldn't get involved as it meanders and winds its way towards becoming indulgent and boring in its tit for tat type posts.

To the best of my knowledge No-one has ignored the Fact that the Senile, Despotic Greedy Fucker that was Wenger in his last 12 years of Managing (all things) Arsenal.. Had left the Club, Players, Coaching & Training Staff, the Finances and Fans in an absolute Shit Show of a Mess to the point that it was teetering on the edge of a crumbling cliff. Which is why that BaldyCUNT Gazidis jumped ship when he saw the extent of the damage that had been done and the HUGE task it was going to take to Fix it.

Unai Emery is a very good manager, but anyone coming in to the Shit Show of a Circus that Wenger had left in his enforced departure was always going to be on a hiding to nothing.

Emery did a great job considering and he laid some of the ground work for when Arteta took over.

It was Arteta that set out his plan (a 6 year renewal) of one of the biggest clubs in English football.

He has re-united the fans from the Warring Factions they had become (and although there are some who think Arteta is the Messiah, whilst some who think he should go now or at the end of the season. But there are those who occupy the Middle-Ground; I would say the Majority who are willing to give him more time).

He has made some Very Good signings: Rice, Raya, Havertz and Trossard. Also some Bad one's Jesus & Zinchenko, also Marquinhos, Lakonga and Tavares who just haven't worked .... Having said that ANY Signing is always a Gamble.

He has also Ignored the Desperate Need for a Striker, even those who see him as the Messiah say we need one.

The Kroenke's will stick with him and back him for the foreseeable future (this and next season) But should he not deliver either the Prem Title, a European Trophy and the FA or League Cup... He will be gone.

And even if that happens he will have changed the "Culture" at the club for the better on many levels.

This is a reasonable post and I don't disgaree with a lot of what you've said although I think you are in the minority here.

My point about ignoring the mess that Wenger left behind is based on the assertion that we've somehow spent 800million in 5years (the actual net figure is a lot less) and shoud be winning trophies(cups)/sustaining title challenges. Other notable clubs have spent more, hired and fired countless managers but have done worse. So based on the evidence, why do some fans think we should be doing better, especially coming from a cesspit of decline rarely seen at a major club??

I like Emery, he did well initially but he exacerbated some of the problems through bad recruitment, including blowing a large chunk of the transfer kitty on Pepe. All his acquisitions were gone within 3years of Arteta taking over so he hardly laid the ground work. The only difference is Arteta has been given more time and despite also being guilty of bad recruitment, the quality of the signings has improved and this has helped stabilise the club. Under Wenger, Rice would be at Man United and not Arsenal, and if Arteta gets the boot, the next manager would benefit from a significantly more stable squad with many players having their best years ahead of them.

[Midz]

I think the upcoming chav game might be a turning point for Arteta. If we take a hiding off those rent boy cùnts I think alot of the less vocal on the fence fans will start to call for his head. And unfortunately we might see the return of the sad split in the fan base that Wengers later tenure caused.

As for me, I'm done with him. He has improved us from where we were when he took over, only a moron would say he hasn't. But that is all he has done. Improved us. We are less shit than we were. Almost any half intelligent manager could do that with 800 million quid.

For 5 years and 800 million quid we should be seeing trophies, even if they are only cups. We should be seeing sustained challenges for the title. We should be seeing an ever improving squad. What we have is one, maybe two half decent pushes for the title that both collapsed when the pressure was on and a paper thin squad with no actual goal scoring striker to speak of.

His ego is his weakness. That and his inexperience of managing a top club that is expected to challenge for silverware.

Unfortunately I don't think he will be going anywhere soon and I fear we will now slowly plunge into the terrible half decade death dive that we saw with Wenger before empty seats and fan disinterest finally push the kroenkes to pull the trigger, far too late.

I absolutely agree that his ego is "a weakness", but I no longer see it is "THE weakness" - I would seriously question his judgement on players both from a recruitment point of view and selling point of view, plus the team selection issue is glaring. A lack of trust in young players was very evident in his early days with smith-rowe and saka and martinelli, and now it is showing again with Nwanieri. His in game management has been dogshit from day one and hasnt improved a jot. The man has a lot of weaknesses but in fairness his english is good and as long as he can say "good evening" properly we will be alright

[DB10GOONER]

For 5 years and 800 million quid we should be seeing trophies, even if they are only cups. We should be seeing sustained challenges for the title. We should be seeing an ever improving squad. What we have is one, maybe two half decent pushes for the title that both collapsed when the pressure was on and a paper thin squad with no actual goal scoring striker to speak of.

I see this claim repeated a lot on this forum a lot. Of course it conveniently ignores the mess that Wenger left behind, not to mention the expensive salvage operation that had to follow which completely overwhelmed Emery. Plenty admitted on this forum that we'd become a midtable side because we'd sunk so low and our problems were uniquely unprecedented. All of a sudden we should be seeing sustained title challenges. There are at least 3 clubs who have spent more money in the period you quoted and we've done better than all 3. Man United and Chelsea (post Ruski) have tried every conceivable approach to become successful from excessive spending to hiring and firing managers and it hasn't worked. This is not to say that we should stick with Arteta but until we find a way to bring in truly elite players, the manager is not a significant consideration for me. FFFP rules limit what we can spend anyway so that's another hindrance. A new manager would bring his own raft of problems and create new debating lines for insatiable Arsenal fans.

Fuck me. Retro was absolutely right about you. Twisting words, ignoring pertinent points, taking one post out of context, silly sweeping statements. And all of it seems to be to defend Arteta, although you try to disguise that.

Forget net spend. Look at what he has spent on players. They are his players he has wanted to bring in. That's all that matters when we are talking about football. Net spend is a cop out excuse for the wànker financial nerd fans in football. He has spent 800 million.

You are trying to imply we are acting entitled by saying he should have won everything. But that's not what we have said. And before you go off on a pedantic "show me where I said that" load of old pony, I'm saying that is what you are implying. And you know it is.

No one on here has ever said we should even be winning the PL for that spend. But we should be challenging every season, not collapsing and failing on the run in for two seasons and then this year out of it in fucking November - and we are out of it. I'll take 100 quid of anyone's money on that. We will not win the PL this season. We'll be lucky to get second or third.

For that spend he should have delivered a cup or two with his own players not just the one he won with Emerys team. But his management of cup games has been appalling. I feel no nostalgic love for managers. If they cannot deliver in a reasonable time, given reasonable resources, then they should go. The world doesn't owe them a living.

Respond if you want, but after reading the convoluted rubbish and disingenuous twisting of words you used in your responses to Retro, I won't be getting dragged into it. Life is too fucking short. Nothing you can say will change my mind.

[OneBardGooner]

Not You DB...

But Fuuuck Me Sideways.....

[augie]

For 5 years and 800 million quid we should be seeing trophies, even if they are only cups. We should be seeing sustained challenges for the title. We should be seeing an ever improving squad. What we have is one, maybe two half decent pushes for the title that both collapsed when the pressure was on and a paper thin squad with no actual goal scoring striker to speak of.

I see this claim repeated a lot on this forum a lot. Of course it conveniently ignores the mess that Wenger left behind, not to mention the expensive salvage operation that had to follow which completely overwhelmed Emery. Plenty admitted on this forum that we'd become a midtable side because we'd sunk so low and our problems were uniquely unprecedented. All of a sudden we should be seeing sustained title challenges. There are at least 3 clubs who have spent more money in the period you quoted and we've done better than all 3. Man United and Chelsea (post Ruski) have tried every conceivable approach to become successful from excessive spending to hiring and firing managers and it hasn't worked. This is not to say that we should stick with Arteta but until we find a way to bring in truly elite players, the manager is not a significant consideration for me. FFFP rules limit what we can spend anyway so that's another hindrance. A new manager would bring his own raft of problems and create new debating lines for insatiable Arsenal fans.

Having popped in occasionally to have a check out this thread I promised myself I wouldn't get involved as it meanders and winds its way towards becoming indulgent and boring in its tit for tat type posts.

To the best of my knowledge No-one has ignored the Fact that the Senile, Despotic Greedy Fucker that was Wenger in his last 12 years of Managing (all things) Arsenal.. Had left the Club, Players, Coaching & Training Staff, the Finances and Fans in an absolute Shit Show of a Mess to the point that it was teetering on the edge of a crumbling cliff. Which is why that BaldyCUNT Gazidis jumped ship when he saw the extent of the damage that had been done and the HUGE task it was going to take to Fix it.

Unai Emery is a very good manager, but anyone coming in to the Shit Show of a Circus that Wenger had left in his enforced departure was always going to be on a hiding to nothing.

Emery did a great job considering and he laid some of the ground work for when Arteta took over.

It was Arteta that set out his plan (a 6 year renewal) of one of the biggest clubs in English football.

He has re-united the fans from the Warring Factions they had become (and although there are some who think Arteta is the Messiah, whilst some who think he should go now or at the end of the season. But there are those who occupy the Middle-Ground; I would say the Majority who are willing to give him more time).

He has made some Very Good signings: Rice, Raya, Havertz and Trossard. Also some Bad one's Jesus & Zinchenko, also Marquinhos, Lakonga and Tavares who just haven't worked .... Having said that ANY Signing is always a Gamble.

He has also Ignored the Desperate Need for a Striker, even those who see him as the Messiah say we need one.

The Kroenke's will stick with him and back him for the foreseeable future (this and next season) But should he not deliver either the Prem Title, a European Trophy and the FA or League Cup... He will be gone.

And even if that happens he will have changed the "Culture" at the club for the better on many levels.

This is a reasonable post and I don't disgaree with a lot of what you've said although I think you are in the minority here.

My point about ignoring the mess that Wenger left behind is based on the assertion that we've somehow spent 800million in 5years (the actual net figure is a lot less) and shoud be winning trophies(cups)/sustaining title challenges. Other notable clubs have spent more, hired and fired countless managers but have done worse. So based on the evidence, why do some fans think we should be doing better, especially coming from a cesspit of decline rarely seen at a major club??

I like Emery, he did well initially but he exacerbated some of the problems through bad recruitment, including blowing a large chunk of the transfer kitty on Pepe. All his acquisitions were gone within 3years of Arteta taking over so he hardly laid the ground work. The only difference is Arteta has been given more time and despite also being guilty of bad recruitment, the quality of the signings has improved and this has helped stabilise the club. Under Wenger, Rice would be at Man United and not Arsenal, and if Arteta gets the boot, the next manager would benefit from a significantly more stable squad with many players having their best years ahead of them.

Buddy there are a lot of people on here that didnt rate Emery but even they will admit that emery NEVER WANTED pepe - it was well publicised at the time that emery wanted zaha but the AFC board over-ruled him, so by all means bash him if you wish, but dont throw absolute bullshit at him that was nothing to do with him
Secondly just because pep's cone boy sold the emery signings doesnt mean they were bad signings - the cone boy made it crystal clear that he wanted emery players out asap, but regardless of how it turned out in the end, in his first season you wouldnt have found too many Gooners slating torreira, guendouzi, sokratis etc as they came within 1pt of top 4. This bullshit about how lego head reunited the fan base just never seems to go away either - when we turned the scum over at the grove in emery's first season, the whole stadium were singing "we've got our Arsenal back", but its funny the way over time that little fact gets forgotten

[General]

For 5 years and 800 million quid we should be seeing trophies, even if they are only cups. We should be seeing sustained challenges for the title. We should be seeing an ever improving squad. What we have is one, maybe two half decent pushes for the title that both collapsed when the pressure was on and a paper thin squad with no actual goal scoring striker to speak of.

I see this claim repeated a lot on this forum a lot. Of course it conveniently ignores the mess that Wenger left behind, not to mention the expensive salvage operation that had to follow which completely overwhelmed Emery. Plenty admitted on this forum that we'd become a midtable side because we'd sunk so low and our problems were uniquely unprecedented. All of a sudden we should be seeing sustained title challenges. There are at least 3 clubs who have spent more money in the period you quoted and we've done better than all 3. Man United and Chelsea (post Ruski) have tried every conceivable approach to become successful from excessive spending to hiring and firing managers and it hasn't worked. This is not to say that we should stick with Arteta but until we find a way to bring in truly elite players, the manager is not a significant consideration for me. FFFP rules limit what we can spend anyway so that's another hindrance. A new manager would bring his own raft of problems and create new debating lines for insatiable Arsenal fans.

Fuck me. Retro was absolutely right about you. Twisting words, ignoring pertinent points, taking one post out of context, silly sweeping statements. And all of it seems to be to defend Arteta, although you try to disguise that.

Forget net spend. Look at what he has spent on players. They are his players he has wanted to bring in. That's all that matters when we are talking about football. Net spend is a cop out excuse for the wànker financial nerd fans in football. He has spent 800 million.

You are trying to imply we are acting entitled by saying he should have won everything. But that's not what we have said. And before you go off on a pedantic "show me where I said that" load of old pony, I'm saying that is what you are implying. And you know it is.

No one on here has ever said we should even be winning the PL for that spend. But we should be challenging every season, not collapsing and failing on the run in for two seasons and then this year out of it in fucking November - and we are out of it. I'll take 100 quid of anyone's money on that. We will not win the PL this season. We'll be lucky to get second or third.

For that spend he should have delivered a cup or two with his own players not just the one he won with Emerys team. But his management of cup games has been appalling. I feel no nostalgic love for managers. If they cannot deliver in a reasonable time, given reasonable resources, then they should go. The world doesn't owe them a living.

Respond if you want, but after reading the convoluted rubbish and disingenuous twisting of words you used in your responses to Retro, I won't be getting dragged into it. Life is too fucking short. Nothing you can say will change my mind.

This is a load of incoherent waffle and predictably you ignore the foundational point about the sad state of affairs post Wenger. I’ll give you the £800million spent. Now give me the cost of undoing the mess he left behind please? And also a timeframe for digging ourselves out of the hole we found ourselves in.

You’ve created a convenient echo chamber with little cliques running around endorsing each other LinkedIn style it’s actually comical. I’ll debate any of you safe in the knowledge that, bar a few balanced posters, you are so far removed from reality and the general consensus. I dare you to step outside your comfort zone and argue these points with fans on other forums.

[IW8Goalmachine]

There are at least 3 clubs who have spent more money in the period you quoted and we've done better than all 3. Man United and Chelsea (post Ruski) have tried every conceivable approach to become successful from excessive spending

Man Utd won a cup each of the past two seasons.

Arteta has won the second place trophy.

[General]

There are at least 3 clubs who have spent more money in the period you quoted and we've done better than all 3. Man United and Chelsea (post Ruski) have tried every conceivable approach to become successful from excessive spending

Man Utd won a cup each of the past two seasons.

Arteta has won the second place trophy.

Ok, would you swap places with Man United for the past two seasons?