Other Matches Thread

[General]

The defence is Liverpool have a superior squad and factually a deeper one that ours. You disagree with the former argument and that's fine, but at least we can agree that in in Salah they have a potent attacker who can turn a game at the flick of switch. This alone tips the balance in their favour. You clearly haven't fully grasped the issue with our attack if you seriously think a half decent centre mid should even be a consideration. I've mentioned it before that we scored more goals last season than Liverpool when they won the league in 2020, so clearly output is not an issue and simply buying a half decent striker isn't going to magically propel us to the holy grail. You're probably going to flag Havertz and Martinelli as ponies and argue that anything would be better, even though they deliver comparative if not better numbers than other players in a similar position. Of course there is room for improvement and it is evident that the club has made efforts to bring in a quality attacker, recognising that there is little room for trail and error.

Me opting for 7 Liverpool players is supported by the fact that the majority are proven winners and still performing at the highest level. It is far from a scathing indictment of Arteta. Some of their ageing players may give people delusions of graduer that their squad is in decline but their average age is 26.5. Ours is 25.5. They are now performing at level they should be because Klopp completely rebuilt their ageing midfield last summer and they've had a full season to bed in. And for the record they spent £42m on 2 players this summer gone. They paid £30m for a goalkeeper , same price as Raya, and loaned him out because they can efford to. The other player is Chiesa. This is a squad that has been built over an extensive period, has fostered the wining habit and has a CL and PL under its belt amongst others. On what planet do you think we have a better squad? That we've outperformed them for the last two seasons is a measure of the good work Arteta has done actually. Our points total and GD last season would've legitimately won us the league in 2 out of the last 5 seasons (3 if you take out the state sponsored club) yet some self entitled fans want to turn their noses up at these endeavours because we've spent £800m after 5years smh.

Let's repeat this £800m figure ad neseaum but conveniently dismiss the fact that United and Chelsea have spent significantly more (Spurs are not far behind) hired and fired managers, and are no better. I see you're no longer holding up Chelsea as a shining example of the new manager effect given their recent slump. Liverpool and Slot are the exception that doesn't disprove the rule I'm afraid.

As for the wife, she would be best advised to manage her expectatiions because that other house has been around for much longer, has undergone extensive refurbishment in the last year prior to the new occupants arriving and most of the furnishing is still in good nick.

We've been here before and I know I'm not going to change your mind so I'm out.

[augie]

Retro, he reckons only four of our players would get into the victims team, and two of them the cone boy didnt even sign - so he has spent almost £800m and bought only two players worthy of getting into a very ordinary victims team Say's it all really

[Limerick Gooner]

Retro, he reckons only four of our players would get into the victims team, and two of them the cone boy didnt even sign - so he has spent almost £800m and bought only two players worthy of getting into a very ordinary victims team Say's it all really

You’re a bit obsessed about Arteta aren’t you? We’ve spent decent money to build a squad from pretty much nothing. Is it right only Saka is left from the Emery squad? Plus Saliba who was on loan but owned by the Club. Let’s have this right, this side would have won the League in the last 2 seasons without a doped City. We blew up in 22/23 when we lost Saliba and we have reinforced the defence directly as a consequence of that. I agree that this Summer’s dealings was not clever. We are light on the wings and in attack. You could also argue we need another play maker. On that basis what you are actually arguing for is to Arteta to have spent far more than £800m. I’d also like to know what transfer moves you would have made. Please talk me through the players we should have signed and when we should have signed them. You do understand that due to PSR/FFP we wouldn’t have been able to buy every player you wished for.

[augie]

Retro, he reckons only four of our players would get into the victims team, and two of them the cone boy didnt even sign - so he has spent almost £800m and bought only two players worthy of getting into a very ordinary victims team Say's it all really

You’re a bit obsessed about Arteta aren’t you? We’ve spent decent money to build a squad from pretty much nothing. Is it right only Saka is left from the Emery squad? Plus Saliba who was on loan but owned by the Club. Let’s have this right, this side would have won the League in the last 2 seasons without a doped City. We blew up in 22/23 when we lost Saliba and we have reinforced the defence directly as a consequence of that. I agree that this Summer’s dealings was not clever. We are light on the wings and in attack. You could also argue we need another play maker. On that basis what you are actually arguing for is to Arteta to have spent far more than £800m. I’d also like to know what transfer moves you would have made. Please talk me through the players we should have signed and when we should have signed them. You do understand that due to PSR/FFP we wouldn’t have been able to buy every player you wished for.

1. Would never have bought jesus (said so at the time)
2. Would never have signed zinchenko (said so at the time)
3. Would never have signed havertz (said so at the time)
4. Would never have sold smith-rowe
5. Would have bought Toney or Osimhen last summer
6. Would never have spent as much to buy rice - good player but not worth that money
7. Would never have bought merino unless selling partey

Btw for people like you who have short memories, the season before the cone boy was appointed we finish 5th (1pt outside top 4) and reached europa league final - in his first season with that squad we won the fa cup and he hasnt won a trophy since, so stop with this bu!!shit about having a shit squad when he took over. He took over a squad that had talent but that also had trouble makers - he decided to throw the baby out with the bath water and got rid of almost everyone in that squad because they werent his players, and that was a big mistake imo.

My point remains that if the cone boys fan boy believes that we can only get 4 players into an average victims team, and that only two of those 4 players were cone boy signings, then how can he claim that £800m has been well spent and how can he argue that he should be allowed spend more ? There is no valid argument he can make and he knows it

[Limerick Gooner]

Retro, he reckons only four of our players would get into the victims team, and two of them the cone boy didnt even sign - so he has spent almost £800m and bought only two players worthy of getting into a very ordinary victims team Say's it all really

You’re a bit obsessed about Arteta aren’t you? We’ve spent decent money to build a squad from pretty much nothing. Is it right only Saka is left from the Emery squad? Plus Saliba who was on loan but owned by the Club. Let’s have this right, this side would have won the League in the last 2 seasons without a doped City. We blew up in 22/23 when we lost Saliba and we have reinforced the defence directly as a consequence of that. I agree that this Summer’s dealings was not clever. We are light on the wings and in attack. You could also argue we need another play maker. On that basis what you are actually arguing for is to Arteta to have spent far more than £800m. I’d also like to know what transfer moves you would have made. Please talk me through the players we should have signed and when we should have signed them. You do understand that due to PSR/FFP we wouldn’t have been able to buy every player you wished for.

1. Would never have bought jesus (said so at the time)
2. Would never have signed zinchenko (said so at the time)
3. Would never have signed havertz (said so at the time)
4. Would never have sold smith-rowe
5. Would have bought Toney or Osimhen last summer
6. Would never have spent as much to buy rice - good player but not worth that money
7. Would never have bought merino unless selling partey

Btw for people like you who have short memories, the season before the cone boy was appointed we finish 5th (1pt outside top 4) and reached europa league final - in his first season with that squad we won the fa cup and he hasnt won a trophy since, so stop with this bu!!shit about having a shit squad when he took over. He took over a squad that had talent but that also had trouble makers - he decided to throw the baby out with the bath water and got rid of almost everyone in that squad because they werent his players, and that was a big mistake imo.

My point remains that if the cone boys fan boy believes that we can only get 4 players into an average victims team, and that only two of those 4 players were cone boy signings, then how can he claim that £800m has been well spent and how can he argue that he should be allowed spend more ? There is no valid argument he can make and he knows it

Who would you have kept from the Emery squad? Who should still be here now?

Toney and Osimhen? Two shit cu nts?

[General]

My point remains that if the cone boys fan boy believes that we can only get 4 players into an average victims team, and that only two of those 4 players were cone boy signings, then how can he claim that £800m has been well spent and how can he argue that he should be allowed spend more ? There is no valid argument he can make and he knows it

Having 4 Arsenal players in the Liverpool team doesn't mean our team is substandard. It was simply meant to illustrate that man for man Liverpool have a superior team. You could make an argument to include more of our players in the combined team because football is a team sport and in certain areas we are better as a unit, but it's no longer an honest argument when you dismiss them as an average team.
Jesus., Zinchenko, Partey, White etc were acquired to help stablise the club and they played their part in our resurgence. We've now outgrown them and need better quality. Not every player Arteta bought has been a success and that's just football. It took Klopp 5years to win the PL. As for Emery, the team he left behind couldn't save him from the sack. What does that tell you.

[augie]

My point remains that if the cone boys fan boy believes that we can only get 4 players into an average victims team, and that only two of those 4 players were cone boy signings, then how can he claim that £800m has been well spent and how can he argue that he should be allowed spend more ? There is no valid argument he can make and he knows it

Having 4 Arsenal players in the Liverpool team doesn't mean our team is substandard. It was simply meant to illustrate that man for man Liverpool have a superior team. You could make an argument to include more of our players in the combined team because football is a team sport and in certain areas we are better as a unit, but it's no longer an honest argument when you dismiss them as an average team.
Jesus., Zinchenko, Partey, White etc were acquired to help stablise the club and they played their part in our resurgence. We've now outgrown them and need better quality. Not every player Arteta bought has been a success and that's just football. It took Klopp 5years to win the PL. As for Emery, the team he left behind couldn't save him from the sack. What does that tell you.

I feel like I am arguing with a child here What is your memory like ? The team that emery left behind would have got the cone boy sacked too except the club stood in and paid those players to fcuk off, so dont for one suggest that the cone boy was able to handle them better than emery did

Secondly I AM SAYING that this liverpool team is the poorest team they have had in years - make no mistake, their front line is masking a lot of their weaknesses, but yet you reckon they are better than us so what does that say for us ??

[DB10GOONER]

My point remains that if the cone boys fan boy believes that we can only get 4 players into an average victims team, and that only two of those 4 players were cone boy signings, then how can he claim that £800m has been well spent and how can he argue that he should be allowed spend more ? There is no valid argument he can make and he knows it

Having 4 Arsenal players in the Liverpool team doesn't mean our team is substandard. It was simply meant to illustrate that man for man Liverpool have a superior team. You could make an argument to include more of our players in the combined team because football is a team sport and in certain areas we are better as a unit, but it's no longer an honest argument when you dismiss them as an average team.
Jesus., Zinchenko, Partey, White etc were acquired to help stablise the club and they played their part in our resurgence. We've now outgrown them and need better quality. Not every player Arteta bought has been a success and that's just football. It took Klopp 5years to win the PL. As for Emery, the team he left behind couldn't save him from the sack. What does that tell you.

I feel like I am arguing with a child here What is your memory like ? The team that emery left behind would have got the cone boy sacked too except the club stood in and paid those players to fcuk off, so dont for one suggest that the cone boy was able to handle them better than emery did

Secondly I AM SAYING that this liverpool team is the poorest team they have had in years - make no mistake, their front line is masking a lot of their weaknesses, but yet you reckon they are better than us so what does that say for us ??

A few of us have been there buddy. Watch out for those constant misquotes and moving goalposts too!

[Retro Gunner]

Retro, he reckons only four of our players would get into the victims team, and two of them the cone boy didnt even sign - so he has spent almost £800m and bought only two players worthy of getting into a very ordinary victims team Say's it all really

Yep, that's exactly it. The argument can be fogged and misrepresented all anyone likes, but the fact here is that Arteta has had fully 5 years and spent £800 million and General would stick 7 Liverpool players into our first eleven. As you say, it says it all.

[OneBardGooner]

Retro, he reckons only four of our players would get into the victims team, and two of them the cone boy didnt even sign - so he has spent almost £800m and bought only two players worthy of getting into a very ordinary victims team Say's it all really

Yep, that's exactly it. The argument can be fogged and misrepresented all anyone likes, but the fact here is that Arteta has had fully 5 years and spent £800 million and General would stick 7 Liverpool players into our first eleven. As you say, it says it all.

I'd take Salah but the rest can fuck off

[Retro Gunner]

The defence is Liverpool have a superior squad and factually a deeper one that ours. You disagree with the former argument and that's fine, but at least we can agree that in in Salah they have a potent attacker who can turn a game at the flick of switch. This alone tips the balance in their favour. You clearly haven't fully grasped the issue with our attack if you seriously think a half decent centre mid should even be a consideration. I've mentioned it before that we scored more goals last season than Liverpool when they won the league in 2020, so clearly output is not an issue and simply buying a half decent striker isn't going to magically propel us to the holy grail. You're probably going to flag Havertz and Martinelli as ponies and argue that anything would be better, even though they deliver comparative if not better numbers than other players in a similar position. Of course there is room for improvement and it is evident that the club has made efforts to bring in a quality attacker, recognising that there is little room for trail and error.

Me opting for 7 Liverpool players is supported by the fact that the majority are proven winners and still performing at the highest level. It is far from a scathing indictment of Arteta. Some of their ageing players may give people delusions of graduer that their squad is in decline but their average age is 26.5. Ours is 25.5. They are now performing at level they should be because Klopp completely rebuilt their ageing midfield last summer and they've had a full season to bed in. And for the record they spent £42m on 2 players this summer gone. They paid £30m for a goalkeeper , same price as Raya, and loaned him out because they can efford to. The other player is Chiesa. This is a squad that has been built over an extensive period, has fostered the wining habit and has a CL and PL under its belt amongst others. On what planet do you think we have a better squad? That we've outperformed them for the last two seasons is a measure of the good work Arteta has done actually. Our points total and GD last season would've legitimately won us the league in 2 out of the last 5 seasons (3 if you take out the state sponsored club) yet some self entitled fans want to turn their noses up at these endeavours because we've spent £800m after 5years smh.

Let's repeat this £800m figure ad neseaum but conveniently dismiss the fact that United and Chelsea have spent significantly more (Spurs are not far behind) hired and fired managers, and are no better. I see you're no longer holding up Chelsea as a shining example of the new manager effect given their recent slump. Liverpool and Slot are the exception that doesn't disprove the rule I'm afraid.

As for the wife, she would be best advised to manage her expectatiions because that other house has been around for much longer, has undergone extensive refurbishment in the last year prior to the new occupants arriving and most of the furnishing is still in good nick.

We've been here before and I know I'm not going to change your mind so I'm out.

Yes, this is getting tedious, but I've got to respond to the misrepresentation and the mis-quotes, but I'll also make this my last response.

The point isn't whether I think the Liverpool squad is better than ours or not...in fact, there's little to choose in a first choice starting eleven imo.....but who is getting the most out of their team, Arteta or Slot. On the Brentford match thread xgtdec made the very valid point about the best managers producing teams that are more than a sum of their parts and that's what Slot has done since arriving in the summer. In my opinion, Arteta has not achieved a similar result with the Arsenal.

You're the one who is insistent that Liverpool have a markedly superior squad and the point being made by augie and myself is that after 5 years and 800 million spent, no side (with the exception of City) should be significantly in front of us squad wise and certainly not to the level where you'd take 7 of their players to replace ours in the starting eleven. You make much of us continually mentioning the 5 years and 800 million, as though it's in no way relevant. They are the most relevant points of all and you know full well that they carry too much weight to challenge. No other "big club" would wait 5 years and invest that much money to return one FA Cup in the first 6 months, when interestingly, none of the 800 million had been invested.

Of the keepers and the back fours, I don't consider that theirs is superior to ours and I'm talking overall, not individual to individual. In fact, I'd take ours. We are badly lacking a quality centre mid to play alongside Rice and the fact that Partey and Jorginho are still important elements says it all. I've no idea why you think my mentioning the need for a centre mid means I'm overlooking the problem up front. I'm hard pushed to think of anyone on here that has been screaming about our lack of a decent CF longer and louder than I have and my feelings on the inadequacies of Havertz and Jesus are well documented. By the way, I've never slated Martinelli, I've always been a fan and know there's a player there, plus, he's not a striker in my use of the term. I've been clear that CF is the single biggest issue in the team, but that in no way means I can't also believe that a centre mid is desperately required.

You're also wrong about Klopp strengthening their ageing midfield last summer. He bought Gakpo in January 2023 and Gravenberch in summer 2023. Neither of those have stood out as world beaters so far and I'd be in no rush to take either at our place.....that doesn't of course mean that they're not better than the options we have in their positions (if we consider Gakpo a striker), but that's a pretty low bar. I'm amazed that you'd bother mentioning their purchases last summer....one is a third choice keeper and Chiesa has played once and usually fails to make the match day squad. He apparently wants out. So, no improvement to the team last summer.

As for Maresca, let's wait and see. He inherited a shit show of a situation, albeit a squad with some quality players. He has undoubtedly improved Chelsea and as with Slot, he's new to the club and the players. As I've said before, Slot stands out in this respect, because following in the footsteps of a charismatic boss like Klopp is a tough ask, but he's done it. The debacle at Utd since Fergie left shows how difficult it can be.

Finally, as for the "other house being around much longer", just how long does it need to be before we can judge a manager? In my book, 5 years and plenty of money is time enough. Klopp joined the scousers 4 years before Arteta joined Arsenal, so when Arteta has been at the club for 7 years will you say that Liverpool have been building for 11 years? After Arteta's 10th season will you say that Klopp arrived 14 years ago? Is there a point at which you think Arteta can be fairly judged without reference to the success or failings of other teams? Oh and just a word about your disingenuous stats....somewhere you said that in his first 5 years Klopp only won one league title, but you conveniently overlooked the CL he won. Also, check out his points totals when just missing out to City in the league. As for us winning the league 3 times if there was no pimped City, how'd you arrive at that? We've been second twice under Arteta and the highest placing other than that is 5th.

That's all folks.......sorry for the essay.

[augie]

For the record I think only 4 players from the current victims team would get into our starting 11 - alisson, mcallister, salah and jota would be my choices. I think that neither midfield is great but theirs is bang average, and whilst it was a toss up between calafiori and robertson for left full, none of the other victims defenders would get in ahead of ours. The big difference (as I said yesterday) is upfront - jota who isnt even a definite starter for them would make our 11 which gives you an idea of the difference is quality in attacking areas

[Limerick Gooner]

Liverpool are a good momentum side who have had a lovely run playing crap teams and better sides who have been on the turn. They have also played no one away apart from us. They’ve also had no injuries to key players and no strange refereeing decisions. When you go on a run like that then everything looks rosy. Let’s see what happens by the end of the season. Once they have gone away to everyone we can see where everyone is at. I maintain that we have had some strange luck. Losing Odegaard is like them losing Salah for several games.

[Perryashburtongroves]

Liverpool are a good momentum side who have had a lovely run playing crap teams and better sides who have been on the turn. They have also played no one away apart from us. They’ve also had no injuries to key players and no strange refereeing decisions. When you go on a run like that then everything looks rosy. Let’s see what happens by the end of the season. Once they have gone away to everyone we can see where everyone is at. I maintain that we have had some strange luck. Losing Odegaard is like them losing Salah for several games.

You can add to that the history they have of collapsing in the latter parts of the season. Nobody really brings it up because they've only ever one won title in the last 35 years but apart from a couple of years when they pushed Cheaty and still didn't win it, they do have a track record of bottling it. Last season they were in with a small chance and flopped, the slippy G season, a season under the fat Spanish waiter. They end up getting too emotional and entitled and the moment things don't go their way in games, they lose focus. They will start dropping points once they're no longer playing Brentford and Leicester at home every week. Second half of the season, they've got Cheaty away, Chavs away, Everton away, Forest away, Bournemouth away, Villa away, Fulham away, Brentford away, Palace away. All tricky places that we've been to with the exception of the blue dippers and Forest. Put it the other way round and I'd be saying that we've still got to go to a lot of tough places. It's nowhere near over yet.

[Retro Gunner]

For the record I think only 4 players from the current victims team would get into our starting 11 - alisson, mcallister, salah and jota would be my choices. I think that neither midfield is great but theirs is bang average, and whilst it was a toss up between calafiori and robertson for left full, none of the other victims defenders would get in ahead of ours. The big difference (as I said yesterday) is upfront - jota who isnt even a definite starter for them would make our 11 which gives you an idea of the difference is quality in attacking areas

Agreed. The only two I’d take into a PL team are Alisson and Salah, who’s world class. The other two you mention would improve our side, due to the areas of chronic weakness, but neither would be my ideal replacements. That, of course, is the point.