Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[Limerick Gooner]

not forgetting the charity shields he's brought in.....jesus sign him up to an even longer deal before we lose him to a rival

Losing two cup ties at home in less than the space of a week should be the final nail for this shite-hawk

We missed a boatload of sitters. We didn’t get outplayed. Take a third of our chances and we are well in both Cups. It is a bizarre couple of games to see us miss this many chances. Never normally happens.

Rubbish
This is the 5th season in a row we have failed in the FA Cup
Unless we turn things around it will be yet another failure in the League Cup
Give it another month and it will be another failure in the Champions League
Another month and it will be be more failure in the league.

Arteta is a serial LOSER
We always miss the big chances with him

Exactly. Big clubs and quality managers don't scratch around for weak excuses. The games were far from bizarre and the pattern of both games and the outcomes surprised almost no one on here. It was largely predicted. That should tell you everything. An example of a bizarre game was the 2001 FA Cup Final, where we played well, battered the scousers, should have been 3 or 4 up, but got mugged at the death. We didn't play at all well in either of these recently lost cup ties and to say "we weren't outplayed", is a lame effort to suggest we were the unlucky better side. Nonsense. We were out-thought and beaten tactically. Teams have sussed our strengths and weaknesses and found out that it's not difficult to nullify our threat....such as it is.

Newcastle managed the game and handled us pretty comfortably from start to finish. Anyone would think we had a hatful of gilt edged chances, when in fact we had 3 or 4 where we ought to have done better, a couple of which were set piece headers. From open play we barely worked their keeper. Wasn't it an hour or more in before an effort on target? It's juvenile for anyone to list 2 or 3 missed chances as evidence of some mystically unusual ill fate. Every side at home ought to create chances and a lot more than we've been doing, the difference being that decent sides have strikers to convert them.

As for the mancs, they're a poor side, but the manager had them organised to contain us and apart from a 15-20 minute spell after the hour mark, we again created little. In fact, in the second period of extra time, they looked more dangerous.

Not having a creative player in centre mid and even worse, not having a striker worthy of the name, is Legohead's choice and the blame sits squarely on his shoulders.

You seriously reckon United outplayed us and outthought us??

[augie]

Losing two cup ties at home in less than the space of a week should be the final nail for this shite-hawk

We missed a boatload of sitters. We didn’t get outplayed. Take a third of our chances and we are well in both Cups. It is a bizarre couple of games to see us miss this many chances. Never normally happens.

Rubbish
This is the 5th season in a row we have failed in the FA Cup
Unless we turn things around it will be yet another failure in the League Cup
Give it another month and it will be another failure in the Champions League
Another month and it will be be more failure in the league.

Arteta is a serial LOSER
We always miss the big chances with him

Exactly. Big clubs and quality managers don't scratch around for weak excuses. The games were far from bizarre and the pattern of both games and the outcomes surprised almost no one on here. It was largely predicted. That should tell you everything. An example of a bizarre game was the 2001 FA Cup Final, where we played well, battered the scousers, should have been 3 or 4 up, but got mugged at the death. We didn't play at all well in either of these recently lost cup ties and to say "we weren't outplayed", is a lame effort to suggest we were the unlucky better side. Nonsense. We were out-thought and beaten tactically. Teams have sussed our strengths and weaknesses and found out that it's not difficult to nullify our threat....such as it is.

Newcastle managed the game and handled us pretty comfortably from start to finish. Anyone would think we had a hatful of gilt edged chances, when in fact we had 3 or 4 where we ought to have done better, a couple of which were set piece headers. From open play we barely worked their keeper. Wasn't it an hour or more in before an effort on target? It's juvenile for anyone to list 2 or 3 missed chances as evidence of some mystically unusual ill fate. Every side at home ought to create chances and a lot more than we've been doing, the difference being that decent sides have strikers to convert them.

As for the mancs, they're a poor side, but the manager had them organised to contain us and apart from a 15-20 minute spell after the hour mark, we again created little. In fact, in the second period of extra time, they looked more dangerous.

Not having a creative player in centre mid and even worse, not having a striker worthy of the name, is Legohead's choice and the blame sits squarely on his shoulders.

You seriously reckon United outplayed us and outthought us??

Where the fcuk did he say that ??? Learn to quote people properly cos your misquoting is beginning to piss a lot of people off

[Retro Gunner]

Losing two cup ties at home in less than the space of a week should be the final nail for this shite-hawk

We missed a boatload of sitters. We didn’t get outplayed. Take a third of our chances and we are well in both Cups. It is a bizarre couple of games to see us miss this many chances. Never normally happens.

Rubbish
This is the 5th season in a row we have failed in the FA Cup
Unless we turn things around it will be yet another failure in the League Cup
Give it another month and it will be another failure in the Champions League
Another month and it will be be more failure in the league.

Arteta is a serial LOSER
We always miss the big chances with him

Exactly. Big clubs and quality managers don't scratch around for weak excuses. The games were far from bizarre and the pattern of both games and the outcomes surprised almost no one on here. It was largely predicted. That should tell you everything. An example of a bizarre game was the 2001 FA Cup Final, where we played well, battered the scousers, should have been 3 or 4 up, but got mugged at the death. We didn't play at all well in either of these recently lost cup ties and to say "we weren't outplayed", is a lame effort to suggest we were the unlucky better side. Nonsense. We were out-thought and beaten tactically. Teams have sussed our strengths and weaknesses and found out that it's not difficult to nullify our threat....such as it is.

Newcastle managed the game and handled us pretty comfortably from start to finish. Anyone would think we had a hatful of gilt edged chances, when in fact we had 3 or 4 where we ought to have done better, a couple of which were set piece headers. From open play we barely worked their keeper. Wasn't it an hour or more in before an effort on target? It's juvenile for anyone to list 2 or 3 missed chances as evidence of some mystically unusual ill fate. Every side at home ought to create chances and a lot more than we've been doing, the difference being that decent sides have strikers to convert them.

As for the mancs, they're a poor side, but the manager had them organised to contain us and apart from a 15-20 minute spell after the hour mark, we again created little. In fact, in the second period of extra time, they looked more dangerous.

Not having a creative player in centre mid and even worse, not having a striker worthy of the name, is Legohead's choice and the blame sits squarely on his shoulders.

You seriously reckon United outplayed us and outthought us??

As usual, you're straw manning. Where did I say outplayed? Out-thought for sure. They were set up to nullify our minimal threat (even from set pieces) and did so pretty comfortably. We seriously tested their keeper on what, 3 or 4 occasions during 2 hours of over 70% possession, for an hour of which they had 10 men. Hardly pulling their defence all over the place were we?

I'd also very much hesitate to say that we outplayed them, as it implies a performance way beyond the one we saw. We had possession, but largely did fuck all with it. You might have noticed that they won.

[Retro Gunner]

We missed a boatload of sitters. We didn’t get outplayed. Take a third of our chances and we are well in both Cups. It is a bizarre couple of games to see us miss this many chances. Never normally happens.

Rubbish
This is the 5th season in a row we have failed in the FA Cup
Unless we turn things around it will be yet another failure in the League Cup
Give it another month and it will be another failure in the Champions League
Another month and it will be be more failure in the league.

Arteta is a serial LOSER
We always miss the big chances with him

Exactly. Big clubs and quality managers don't scratch around for weak excuses. The games were far from bizarre and the pattern of both games and the outcomes surprised almost no one on here. It was largely predicted. That should tell you everything. An example of a bizarre game was the 2001 FA Cup Final, where we played well, battered the scousers, should have been 3 or 4 up, but got mugged at the death. We didn't play at all well in either of these recently lost cup ties and to say "we weren't outplayed", is a lame effort to suggest we were the unlucky better side. Nonsense. We were out-thought and beaten tactically. Teams have sussed our strengths and weaknesses and found out that it's not difficult to nullify our threat....such as it is.

Newcastle managed the game and handled us pretty comfortably from start to finish. Anyone would think we had a hatful of gilt edged chances, when in fact we had 3 or 4 where we ought to have done better, a couple of which were set piece headers. From open play we barely worked their keeper. Wasn't it an hour or more in before an effort on target? It's juvenile for anyone to list 2 or 3 missed chances as evidence of some mystically unusual ill fate. Every side at home ought to create chances and a lot more than we've been doing, the difference being that decent sides have strikers to convert them.

As for the mancs, they're a poor side, but the manager had them organised to contain us and apart from a 15-20 minute spell after the hour mark, we again created little. In fact, in the second period of extra time, they looked more dangerous.

Not having a creative player in centre mid and even worse, not having a striker worthy of the name, is Legohead's choice and the blame sits squarely on his shoulders.

You seriously reckon United outplayed us and outthought us??

Where the fcuk did he say that ??? Learn to quote people properly cos your misquoting is beginning to piss a lot of people off

I was typing my response when you posted this augie, but yep, he's wumming again. Constantly misrepresents what people say. Maybe go easy on the guy....he might have just become a new father.

[Limerick Gooner]

Out thought. Tick.

More dangerous. Tick.

Contained us tactically. Tick.

Yeah. I’m misrepresenting people.

[Retro Gunner]

Out thought. Tick.

More dangerous. Tick.

Contained us tactically. Tick.

Yeah. I’m misrepresenting people.

You're making no sense. Tick.

[Limerick Gooner]

Out thought. Tick.

More dangerous. Tick.

Contained us tactically. Tick.

Yeah. I’m misrepresenting people.

You're making no sense. Tick.

Apparently we created no chances other than several sitters and a missed penalty. Otherwise why is Havertz and Odegaard getting pelters on here for missing said chances? Tick.

[Retro Gunner]

Out thought. Tick.

More dangerous. Tick.

Contained us tactically. Tick.

Yeah. I’m misrepresenting people.

You're making no sense. Tick.

Apparently we created no chances other than several sitters and a missed penalty. Otherwise why is Havertz and Odegaard getting pelters on here for missing said chances? Tick.

Mate, are you ill, or do you have a comprehension problem? Why constantly misrepresent and misquote people. Do you think that the other members on here are too daft to see it and will be beguiled by your lame arguments? I'll give you a clue....they aren't and won't be. You're getting a reputation as a total wind up merchant.

I'm not going to keep taking the bait, but for the record, here goes:

1. Where did I say we created "no chances"? I clearly said we created no more than 3 or 4 clear chances where we tested the keeper, in 2 hours of football, with 70+% possession, against 10 men for an hour of that time. The hopeless Havertz missed two gilt edged chances, Trossard got beaten to the ball on the goal line by De Ligt, the keeper saved a cross shot from Rice and Odegaard had a penalty saved. It's possible there are 1 or 2 more, but that's about all I can recall in 2 hours of football. A few times you've referenced a string of sitters we missed, so care to list them?

2. To put "more dangerous" into context, I clearly said in the second half of extra time. Again, a bad faith response from you.

3. I'd say out-thought tactically was clear. A weak side, who've been abysmal this season were organised by their new manager to nullify our threat, such as it is. They managed that, pretty comfortably, even with 10 men. Maguire and De Ligt have looked Championship level this season, but coped comfortably with our hopeless strikers and I use the term very loosely.

4. They won.

If you plan to respond, can I ask that you kindly read what I've written and don't attribute false claims to my comments, or come out with straw man bollocks.

[Limerick Gooner]

Out thought. Tick.

More dangerous. Tick.

Contained us tactically. Tick.

Yeah. I’m misrepresenting people.

You're making no sense. Tick.

Apparently we created no chances other than several sitters and a missed penalty. Otherwise why is Havertz and Odegaard getting pelters on here for missing said chances? Tick.

Mate, are you ill, or do you have a comprehension problem? Why constantly misrepresent and misquote people. Do you think that the other members on here are too daft to see it and will be beguiled by your lame arguments? I'll give you a clue....they aren't and won't be. You're getting a reputation as a total wind up merchant.

I'm not going to keep taking the bait, but for the record, here goes:

1. Where did I say we created "no chances"? I clearly said we created no more than 3 or 4 clear chances where we tested the keeper, in 2 hours of football, with 70+% possession, against 10 men for an hour of that time. The hopeless Havertz missed two gilt edged chances, Trossard got beaten to the ball on the goal line by De Ligt, the keeper saved a cross shot from Rice and Odegaard had a penalty saved. It's possible there are 1 or 2 more, but that's about all I can recall in 2 hours of football. A few times you've referenced a string of sitters we missed, so care to list them?

2. To put "more dangerous" into context, I clearly said in the second half of extra time. Again, a bad faith response from you.

3. I'd say out-thought tactically was clear. A weak side, who've been abysmal this season were organised by their new manager to nullify our threat, such as it is. They managed that, pretty comfortably, even with 10 men. Maguire and De Ligt have looked Championship level this season, but coped comfortably with our hopeless strikers and I use the term very loosely.

4. They won.

If you plan to respond, can I ask that you kindly read what I've written and don't attribute false claims to my comments, or come out with straw man bollocks.

Mate. This is getting tedious. You are literally misrepresenting what happened in the game. You are now defining gilt edged chances as something the keeper has to save. Why? Why does Havertz and Trossard fluffing literal sitters not meet the threshold? I know you’ve just set out our folly in said chances being fluffed but they are fucking sitters! And then you go on to say that we’ve been tactically outthought. How the fucking fuck has Amorim outthought us when we created several sitters? If we had scored them all and beat them 6-1 then he wouldn’t have outthought anyone would he? Or are you actually suggesting that Amorim set up a rope a dope tactical master plan which relied on Arsenal missing open goals and a penalty? It doesn’t make any sense does it?

[Retro Gunner]

Out thought. Tick.

More dangerous. Tick.

Contained us tactically. Tick.

Yeah. I’m misrepresenting people.

You're making no sense. Tick.

Apparently we created no chances other than several sitters and a missed penalty. Otherwise why is Havertz and Odegaard getting pelters on here for missing said chances? Tick.

Mate, are you ill, or do you have a comprehension problem? Why constantly misrepresent and misquote people. Do you think that the other members on here are too daft to see it and will be beguiled by your lame arguments? I'll give you a clue....they aren't and won't be. You're getting a reputation as a total wind up merchant.

I'm not going to keep taking the bait, but for the record, here goes:

1. Where did I say we created "no chances"? I clearly said we created no more than 3 or 4 clear chances where we tested the keeper, in 2 hours of football, with 70+% possession, against 10 men for an hour of that time. The hopeless Havertz missed two gilt edged chances, Trossard got beaten to the ball on the goal line by De Ligt, the keeper saved a cross shot from Rice and Odegaard had a penalty saved. It's possible there are 1 or 2 more, but that's about all I can recall in 2 hours of football. A few times you've referenced a string of sitters we missed, so care to list them?

2. To put "more dangerous" into context, I clearly said in the second half of extra time. Again, a bad faith response from you.

3. I'd say out-thought tactically was clear. A weak side, who've been abysmal this season were organised by their new manager to nullify our threat, such as it is. They managed that, pretty comfortably, even with 10 men. Maguire and De Ligt have looked Championship level this season, but coped comfortably with our hopeless strikers and I use the term very loosely.

4. They won.

If you plan to respond, can I ask that you kindly read what I've written and don't attribute false claims to my comments, or come out with straw man bollocks.

Mate. This is getting tedious. You are literally misrepresenting what happened in the game. You are now defining gilt edged chances as something the keeper has to save. Why? Why does Havertz and Trossard fluffing literal sitters not meet the threshold? I know you’ve just set out our folly in said chances being fluffed but they are fucking sitters! And then you go on to say that we’ve been tactically outthought. How the fucking fuck has Amorim outthought us when we created several sitters? If we had scored them all and beat them 6-1 then he wouldn’t have outthought anyone would he? Or are you actually suggesting that Amorim set up a rope a dope tactical master plan which relied on Arsenal missing open goals and a penalty? It doesn’t make any sense does it?

You are, my friend, an idiot as well as a wum. I've listed the clear chances we had and it's irrelevant if one chooses to call them "gilt edged", or "sitters". They are the sum total of the clear chances to score that we manufactured in 2 hours, half of which was against 10 men. Of course fluffing those chances meets the threshold, why do you think I included them? Fluffed, or otherwise, that's all we created. I'm waiting for you to give us the list of "sitters" you've referenced in the course of the last day, which makes it clear that we weren't nullified but lost due to bizarre ill fortune.

If you seriously can't see that Amorim had them set up to nullify us and that the tactic worked (again, even with 10 men), then you don't know what you're watching. To suggest that setting up to kill our threat means that not a single chance will be created is ludicrous, juvenile and again suggests you have no understanding of the game. You limit the opportunities the opposition has and hope your keeper/defenders can cope when and if they do break through.

Take a look at the Arsenal v Parma 1994 Cup Winners Cup Final. No doubt they were the better footballing team, but we set up to defend, limit their opportunities (and believe it or not, yes they still had chances), had our backs to the wall, but nicked the only goal. Job done. Utd did it to us yesterday.

You're arguing for the sake of it and making yourself look daft. Grow up.

[Limerick Gooner]

Alright I admit it. Amorim is a tactical genius. It wasn’t luck which saw them win through. It was a genius ploy to allow us to dominate them and create 6 clear cut chances. 5 of which we missed. Their goal came from a freak slip by Gabriel. They had another breakaway in extra time. One! In over 60 minutes of football. Again. Another tactical masterpiece. I’m staggered that we even took them to extra time. I’m also staggered how he thought up a ploy to play a low block when going down to ten men and to pray that we didn’t take any of our chances. Literally this is Manager of the Year material.

The reality (which you know full well) is that he lucked out in a game where we missed 5 clear cut chances. They scored a breakaway from a slip when it was 11 v 11. Did they deserve to win the game. Yes and no. We were not outthought if you think sitting in and praying we don’t score is the tactical plan.

[Nick Nack]

Fantastic article that.
And should we lose to Spurs and Villa this week then the knives will be being sharpened in the national press too.

What I am sick of hearing though is that Arteta has won an FA Cup. Techincally yes but they were with Emerys players. He also took over once the club had got to the quarter final stage. In the FIVE years since Arteta has managed to win just TWO FA Cup ties. For that alone he needs to be sacked.

not forgetting the charity shields he's brought in.....jesus sign him up to an even longer deal before we lose him to a rival

Losing two cup ties at home in less than the space of a week should be the final nail for this shite-hawk

We missed a boatload of sitters. We didn’t get outplayed. Take a third of our chances and we are well in both Cups. It is a bizarre couple of games to see us miss this many chances. Never normally happens.

Football is about results, not how well you play. In the cups Diet Pep's record is appalling, just as he has proved once again. That's a fact.

This will be another trophyless season and quite frankly it's not good enough. You might think otherwise but I don't see us winning the PL or CL.

I think we had 6 shots on target in 2 hours yesterday, that is not a boatload of sitters. If we had a half decent striker things might be different but Diet Pep knows best and has decided that we don't need one.

Everyone has an opinion on their team's manager and you might be content if we create loads of chances and win fuck all, but we are The Arsenal and that needs to change.

[augie]

Out thought. Tick.

More dangerous. Tick.

Contained us tactically. Tick.

Yeah. I’m misrepresenting people.

In a game that lasted over 2 hours retro suggested that they were more dangerous in the second half of extra time (which is 15 mins) - either learn to read peoples posts properly or piss off cos you are intentionally misquoting and winding up people

[Retro Gunner]

Alright I admit it. Amorim is a tactical genius. It wasn’t luck which saw them win through. It was a genius ploy to allow us to dominate them and create 6 clear cut chances. 5 of which we missed. Their goal came from a freak slip by Gabriel. They had another breakaway in extra time. One! In over 60 minutes of football. Again. Another tactical masterpiece. I’m staggered that we even took them to extra time. I’m also staggered how he thought up a ploy to play a low block when going down to ten men and to pray that we didn’t take any of our chances. Literally this is Manager of the Year material.

The reality (which you know full well) is that he lucked out in a game where we missed 5 clear cut chances. They scored a breakaway from a slip when it was 11 v 11. Did they deserve to win the game. Yes and no. We were not outthought if you think sitting in and praying we don’t score is the tactical plan.

Ok, one more try.

What do you think was Amorim’s game plan, if you don’t think they set out to sit deep and take the breakaway opportunities which came their way? No point crying about Gabriel slipping, that’s exactly the type of opportunity those tactics set out to capitalise on. They sat deep and absorbed our pretty impotent pressure from the first whistle. It’s hardly a unique tactic is it ffs, unless you’ve only just started watching the game….which seems possible. So, if that wasn’t Amorim’s deliberate tactic, what do you think was?

As for “sitting in and praying we don’t score”, that’s a bullshit description. You sit in, limit chances by having honed your game plan and take your chances when they come. They did exactly what the Geordies did, which is worrying because they’re not as good a side.

The no end of “sitters” you’ve been banging on about since Sunday, turns out to be the same 5 or 6 (you use both figures in your last post, but never mind) that the rest of us saw, so hardly an avalanche. In fact, if we use 5 as the figure (I’ll discount the penalty and say that we played roughly 130 minutes, including the various bits of injury time), then that’s a serious scoring chance every 26 minutes. Hardly having them hanging on for dear life and tearing Amorim’s game plan apart was it?

You’re upset we lost, we all are, but don’t lose your grip on reality. Our failure in the two games is a reflection on us, not on the luck of the two sides that beat us. They both came with a plan and their plans worked.

Btw, have you watched the Parma CWC Final? Let me know what you think our tactic was.

[Limerick Gooner]

Out thought. Tick.

More dangerous. Tick.

Contained us tactically. Tick.

Yeah. I’m misrepresenting people.

In a game that lasted over 2 hours retro suggested that they were more dangerous in the second half of extra time (which is 15 mins) - either learn to read peoples posts properly or piss off cos you are intentionally misquoting and winding up people

What’s the huge significance of them looking more dangerous for 15 minutes out of a game lasting 2 hours?? I’m not even sure it’s true. You see. Your posts are written to fit the agenda. You conveniently ignore us dominating them for the other 105 minutes. They created nothing in the whole 2 hours other than a goal from our slip. That game was a freak. We bottled it. Yes we did. But this was not a tactical masterclass from Amorim. He got fucking lucky.