Worst run "big" plge club

[Natural Born Gooner]

That new Manc stadium looks like a Circus Big Top. Ironic as it's an absolute clown show now

[Limerick Gooner]

“We have one billion people around the world who follow Manchester United. I think everybody in the world who’s interested in football will want to visit Old Trafford.”

The World contains 8 billion people. Most of them don’t follow football at all. And yet 1 billion of the World’s people follow Man United.

[DB10GOONER]

“We have one billion people around the world who follow Manchester United. I think everybody in the world who’s interested in football will want to visit Old Trafford.”

The World contains 8 billion people. Most of them don’t follow football at all. And yet 1 billion of the World’s people follow Man United.

Fantasist club followed by mostly fantasist fans.

Ireland is fuck full of manure fans but the vast majority have never made the quick flight to the UK to visit Old Toilet. Same with the victims*. All Monday morning mouth pieces in work but have never been to see their so called beloved teams.

Even the scum fans in Oireland are more genuine, they regularly go over in reasonable numbers. Still cùnts mind.

[augie]

United showing real ambition to be fair by announcing plans for a new stadium.

I personally think we are the worst run “big club “ because nobody in charge wants to win anything. It is all about a top 4 league finish - and now a top 8 CL group stage finish

Very hard to disagree with that - even going back decades we as a club lacked the ambition of a proper big club. Yes we could talk the talk, and yes we could stick our chests out and talk shite about bank of england club, but when it came down to it we bought cheap and paid cheap too, so winning of trophies was never a high enough priority for ownership. David Dein was the one who changed that mindset, and then in the GG and early Wenger era we allowed ourselves to believe that we were now a proper big club, but the reality is that our owners and board would be pissed at the loss of revenue if we were excluded from a euopean super league, more than the loss of prestige

Overall though I really dont care who is the worst run big club - what boils my piss is that at a time when so many "big clubs" are being badly run, we as a club are not taking advantage cos we lack the ambition and know how in key positions (manager and boardroom). Again it also boils my piss how some (including sid) can point to how badly these other clubs are being run whilst also praising the cone boy for the job he is doing, without even once wondering if he is doing well cos they are shit in recent years We have never even hit 90pts in a season under the cone boy, and the victims twice surpassed that when finishing 2nd If anything we as Gooners should be raging that we havent taken advantage of our rivals more than we have, but instead we look for soft excuses to deflect away from our own issues - Sunday was a prime example cos we focused on how far our wall was back and used it as a defence for a shameful draw against a shit manure team Yes the wall was put too far back, BUT raya's positioning was unacceptable, plus our performance was for the most part a disgrace and we need to own that

[Sid33]

United showing real ambition to be fair by announcing plans for a new stadium.

I personally think we are the worst run “big club “ because nobody in charge wants to win anything. It is all about a top 4 league finish - and now a top 8 CL group stage finish

Very hard to disagree with that - even going back decades we as a club lacked the ambition of a proper big club. Yes we could talk the talk, and yes we could stick our chests out and talk shite about bank of england club, but when it came down to it we bought cheap and paid cheap too, so winning of trophies was never a high enough priority for ownership. David Dein was the one who changed that mindset, and then in the GG and early Wenger era we allowed ourselves to believe that we were now a proper big club, but the reality is that our owners and board would be pissed at the loss of revenue if we were excluded from a euopean super league, more than the loss of prestige

Overall though I really dont care who is the worst run big club - what boils my piss is that at a time when so many "big clubs" are being badly run, we as a club are not taking advantage cos we lack the ambition and know how in key positions (manager and boardroom). Again it also boils my piss how some (including sid) can point to how badly these other clubs are being run whilst also praising the cone boy for the job he is doing, without even once wondering if he is doing well cos they are shit in recent years We have never even hit 90pts in a season under the cone boy, and the victims twice surpassed that when finishing 2nd If anything we as Gooners should be raging that we havent taken advantage of our rivals more than we have, but instead we look for soft excuses to deflect away from our own issues - Sunday was a prime example cos we focused on how far our wall was back and used it as a defence for a shameful draw against a shit manure team Yes the wall was put too far back, BUT raya's positioning was unacceptable, plus our performance was for the most part a disgrace and we need to own that

Reading this braindead shite makes me realise why I stopped posting on here!
We've finished a close 2nd twice, the Kronkes have put their hand in their pocket!
That said I don't think Arteta can take us to the next level, but did give us back respectability!
Augie I think I remember in one of your insane posts that you're involved at "grassroots level" with the FAI!
That would probably explain why you dont have a fucking baldies!

[augie]

United showing real ambition to be fair by announcing plans for a new stadium.

I personally think we are the worst run “big club “ because nobody in charge wants to win anything. It is all about a top 4 league finish - and now a top 8 CL group stage finish

Very hard to disagree with that - even going back decades we as a club lacked the ambition of a proper big club. Yes we could talk the talk, and yes we could stick our chests out and talk shite about bank of england club, but when it came down to it we bought cheap and paid cheap too, so winning of trophies was never a high enough priority for ownership. David Dein was the one who changed that mindset, and then in the GG and early Wenger era we allowed ourselves to believe that we were now a proper big club, but the reality is that our owners and board would be pissed at the loss of revenue if we were excluded from a euopean super league, more than the loss of prestige

Overall though I really dont care who is the worst run big club - what boils my piss is that at a time when so many "big clubs" are being badly run, we as a club are not taking advantage cos we lack the ambition and know how in key positions (manager and boardroom). Again it also boils my piss how some (including sid) can point to how badly these other clubs are being run whilst also praising the cone boy for the job he is doing, without even once wondering if he is doing well cos they are shit in recent years We have never even hit 90pts in a season under the cone boy, and the victims twice surpassed that when finishing 2nd If anything we as Gooners should be raging that we havent taken advantage of our rivals more than we have, but instead we look for soft excuses to deflect away from our own issues - Sunday was a prime example cos we focused on how far our wall was back and used it as a defence for a shameful draw against a shit manure team Yes the wall was put too far back, BUT raya's positioning was unacceptable, plus our performance was for the most part a disgrace and we need to own that

Reading this braindead shite makes me realise why I stopped posting on here!
We've finished a close 2nd twice, the Kronkes have put their hand in their pocket!
That said I don't think Arteta can take us to the next level, but did give us back respectability!
Augie I think I remember in one of your insane posts that you're involved at "grassroots level" with the FAI!
That would probably explain why you dont have a fucking baldies!

When you dont recognise the points I am making and automatically dismiss them, then it is you that looks braindead not me

1. When as many "big clubs" are being badly run at the same time (as your poll rightly suggests), then doesnt it make sense that it is an easier time for the cone boy to finish second than a few years ago when manure and the chavs were constantly contenders to win the premier league and champions league ? If you acknowledge that, then surely it dilutes the great achievements that the cone boy keeps getting praised for

2. The kroenkes have indeed backed the cone boy more than any manager in our history - I will argue that spending money isnt the ONLY defining factor when it comes to showing ambition. Manure for all their faults, recognised that ten haag was never going to make them a great team again and sacked him despite the fact that he won 2 cups in the last 2 seasons - our cone boy has won nothing since he dismantled the squad he inherited and started spending the £800m, and that should raise flags imo. Recognising when a manager has reached his level (as both of us agree that the cone boy has), and having the guts to make the tough decision to replace him, sends a signal to the players, to the fans, and to the wider football world, that this is a club that wants to win these trophies and being nearly men is not enough for us - that to me is showing ambition, but our board will be too afraid to make that decision and will instead be grateful to the cone boy and will stick with him and the message that sends our players is that we are not ruthless enough to be real winners at the top level

Btw I never suggested I worked for the fai at any stage - I have filled numerous roles within my local club and served as secretary of our local league for two and a half seasons

[SteveO 35]

So much of this comes down to a definition of "worst run" - and fans and business people often see a big difference between the two.

United are in a mess - the previous and current owners have as good as admitted as much and the much publicised cost cutting measures are an open sign of that. They have spunked hundreds of millions on utter shite, have a stadium that is falling to pieces and their pay offs to failed managers is at joke levels

The Chavs get a lot of stick with their casino strategy, and at the moment they are having a shit time of it but 2 European Cups and numerous league titles and other cups over the past 20 years mean their fans don't moan about it. Yep they chop and change managers and sometimes they get it spectacularly wrong but who cares? I've often said (and this is from someone who has been an FD and MD for many years), football isn't a proper business. Its not my money and I don't care. The Chavs will never recover their owners investments - the Russki didn't and this fella Boehly has no chance either. But here is where football is different - its a billionaire's plaything. They aren't looking at multiples of EBITDA, and ROI calcs - they'll sell it on to the next punter for $2-$5bn, who will be someone even more ludicrously wealthy e.g. Newcastle owners. Its why when we spent £100m+ on Rice, I'm like "yeah, bid deal, so what" - when your owner is worth $11bn its chump change.

We are just a boring boring club to be involved with. We don't have the Chavs casino strategy, but nor are we in dire straits like Man Ure. Our owner is worth a fortune, we won't be going bust, but we won't be winning anything major either

[Limerick Gooner]

So much of this comes down to a definition of "worst run" - and fans and business people often see a big difference between the two.

United are in a mess - the previous and current owners have as good as admitted as much and the much publicised cost cutting measures are an open sign of that. They have spunked hundreds of millions on utter shite, have a stadium that is falling to pieces and their pay offs to failed managers is at joke levels

The Chavs get a lot of stick with their casino strategy, and at the moment they are having a shit time of it but 2 European Cups and numerous league titles and other cups over the past 20 years mean their fans don't moan about it. Yep they chop and change managers and sometimes they get it spectacularly wrong but who cares? I've often said (and this is from someone who has been an FD and MD for many years), football isn't a proper business. Its not my money and I don't care. The Chavs will never recover their owners investments - the Russki didn't and this fella Boehly has no chance either. But here is where football is different - its a billionaire's plaything. They aren't looking at multiples of EBITDA, and ROI calcs - they'll sell it on to the next punter for $2-$5bn, who will be someone even more ludicrously wealthy e.g. Newcastle owners. Its why when we spent £100m+ on Rice, I'm like "yeah, bid deal, so what" - when your owner is worth $11bn its chump change.

We are just a boring boring club to be involved with. We don't have the Chavs casino strategy, but nor are we in dire straits like Man Ure. Our owner is worth a fortune, we won't be going bust, but we won't be winning anything major either

Football is all about timing. You can win titles in weak seasons (Leicester), FA Cups with easy draws and sides turning up drunk to the Final (United last season). You can also win European Cups in an era where you effectively just had to win the Final (Villa, Forest, Scousers). I think we’ve been unfortunate over the last couple of years but that’s football. This season we haven’t been good enough but equally have had a lot of bad luck. Some of our own making (injuries to attacking players) and some not (refs).

The thing that really annoys me though is that football has become one big hate watch. I reckon we get far more banter for finishing 2nd and not winning any of the cups than we do when we were getting tonked 6-0, 5-0, 4-0 by the “big 6”. United nicking trophies due to Euromillions odds runs of home draws is perceived as a major achievement vs Arsenal finishing 2 points behind a doped City. I just get really peed off with it as the recognition of what we have done is ignored (by a lot of posters on here too). This season we got it wrong and Arteta probably isn’t the guy but this side was a title winning side in most other seasons for the past two seasons. Our anger should be with City and the Premier League, not with Arteta.

[EC1]

United showing real ambition to be fair by announcing plans for a new stadium.

I personally think we are the worst run “big club “ because nobody in charge wants to win anything. It is all about a top 4 league finish - and now a top 8 CL group stage finish

Very hard to disagree with that - even going back decades we as a club lacked the ambition of a proper big club. Yes we could talk the talk, and yes we could stick our chests out and talk shite about bank of england club, but when it came down to it we bought cheap and paid cheap too, so winning of trophies was never a high enough priority for ownership. David Dein was the one who changed that mindset, and then in the GG and early Wenger era we allowed ourselves to believe that we were now a proper big club, but the reality is that our owners and board would be pissed at the loss of revenue if we were excluded from a euopean super league, more than the loss of prestige

Overall though I really dont care who is the worst run big club - what boils my piss is that at a time when so many "big clubs" are being badly run, we as a club are not taking advantage cos we lack the ambition and know how in key positions (manager and boardroom). Again it also boils my piss how some (including sid) can point to how badly these other clubs are being run whilst also praising the cone boy for the job he is doing, without even once wondering if he is doing well cos they are shit in recent years We have never even hit 90pts in a season under the cone boy, and the victims twice surpassed that when finishing 2nd If anything we as Gooners should be raging that we havent taken advantage of our rivals more than we have, but instead we look for soft excuses to deflect away from our own issues - Sunday was a prime example cos we focused on how far our wall was back and used it as a defence for a shameful draw against a shit manure team Yes the wall was put too far back, BUT raya's positioning was unacceptable, plus our performance was for the most part a disgrace and we need to own that

Reading this braindead shite makes me realise why I stopped posting on here!
We've finished a close 2nd twice, the Kronkes have put their hand in their pocket!
That said I don't think Arteta can take us to the next level, but did give us back respectability!
Augie I think I remember in one of your insane posts that you're involved at "grassroots level" with the FAI!
That would probably explain why you dont have a fucking baldies!

When you dont recognise the points I am making and automatically dismiss them, then it is you that looks braindead not me

1. When as many "big clubs" are being badly run at the same time (as your poll rightly suggests), then doesnt it make sense that it is an easier time for the cone boy to finish second than a few years ago when manure and the chavs were constantly contenders to win the premier league and champions league ? If you acknowledge that, then surely it dilutes the great achievements that the cone boy keeps getting praised for

2. The kroenkes have indeed backed the cone boy more than any manager in our history - I will argue that spending money isnt the ONLY defining factor when it comes to showing ambition. Manure for all their faults, recognised that ten haag was never going to make them a great team again and sacked him despite the fact that he won 2 cups in the last 2 seasons - our cone boy has won nothing since he dismantled the squad he inherited and started spending the £800m, and that should raise flags imo. Recognising when a manager has reached his level (as both of us agree that the cone boy has), and having the guts to make the tough decision to replace him, sends a signal to the players, to the fans, and to the wider football world, that this is a club that wants to win these trophies and being nearly men is not enough for us - that to me is showing ambition, but our board will be too afraid to make that decision and will instead be grateful to the cone boy and will stick with him and the message that sends our players is that we are not ruthless enough to be real winners at the top level

Btw I never suggested I worked for the fai at any stage - I have filled numerous roles within my local club and served as secretary of our local league for two and a half seasons

You served as a secretary of your local league team, for two and half seasons and yet you carry on as you are some kind of total expert and constantly bad mouth it seems anyone with Arsenal Football Club, manager, owner, players and fans.

You always seem to get more enjoyment out of Arsenal losing than winning.

[Retro Gunner]

So much of this comes down to a definition of "worst run" - and fans and business people often see a big difference between the two.

United are in a mess - the previous and current owners have as good as admitted as much and the much publicised cost cutting measures are an open sign of that. They have spunked hundreds of millions on utter shite, have a stadium that is falling to pieces and their pay offs to failed managers is at joke levels

The Chavs get a lot of stick with their casino strategy, and at the moment they are having a shit time of it but 2 European Cups and numerous league titles and other cups over the past 20 years mean their fans don't moan about it. Yep they chop and change managers and sometimes they get it spectacularly wrong but who cares? I've often said (and this is from someone who has been an FD and MD for many years), football isn't a proper business. Its not my money and I don't care. The Chavs will never recover their owners investments - the Russki didn't and this fella Boehly has no chance either. But here is where football is different - its a billionaire's plaything. They aren't looking at multiples of EBITDA, and ROI calcs - they'll sell it on to the next punter for $2-$5bn, who will be someone even more ludicrously wealthy e.g. Newcastle owners. Its why when we spent £100m+ on Rice, I'm like "yeah, bid deal, so what" - when your owner is worth $11bn its chump change.

We are just a boring boring club to be involved with. We don't have the Chavs casino strategy, but nor are we in dire straits like Man Ure. Our owner is worth a fortune, we won't be going bust, but we won't be winning anything major either

This is a spot on analysis. Anyone that knows Chelsea supporters also knows that they don’t really give a fuck about the sacked managers and at least have the honesty to know that Abramovich was the reason they evolved from also rans to a side that won trophies at the top level. They know it was the huge injection of money and don’t give a fuck. Nor do the City supporters, whose club was washed up and out of the big time. Frankly, nor would I if Stan did the same thing and financed a super team that won everything. Football is absolutely not like a regular business.

The only thing with which I’d disagree with SteveO is over the signing of Rice. I like the guy and I’m glad we have him, but he was never worth £105 million imo. In Chelsea’s or City’s world, he’s right, the money doesn’t matter, but because Stan won’t bankroll the club, there is a limit to expenditure, so overpaying is relevant.

[Retro Gunner]

So much of this comes down to a definition of "worst run" - and fans and business people often see a big difference between the two.

United are in a mess - the previous and current owners have as good as admitted as much and the much publicised cost cutting measures are an open sign of that. They have spunked hundreds of millions on utter shite, have a stadium that is falling to pieces and their pay offs to failed managers is at joke levels

The Chavs get a lot of stick with their casino strategy, and at the moment they are having a shit time of it but 2 European Cups and numerous league titles and other cups over the past 20 years mean their fans don't moan about it. Yep they chop and change managers and sometimes they get it spectacularly wrong but who cares? I've often said (and this is from someone who has been an FD and MD for many years), football isn't a proper business. Its not my money and I don't care. The Chavs will never recover their owners investments - the Russki didn't and this fella Boehly has no chance either. But here is where football is different - its a billionaire's plaything. They aren't looking at multiples of EBITDA, and ROI calcs - they'll sell it on to the next punter for $2-$5bn, who will be someone even more ludicrously wealthy e.g. Newcastle owners. Its why when we spent £100m+ on Rice, I'm like "yeah, bid deal, so what" - when your owner is worth $11bn its chump change.

We are just a boring boring club to be involved with. We don't have the Chavs casino strategy, but nor are we in dire straits like Man Ure. Our owner is worth a fortune, we won't be going bust, but we won't be winning anything major either

Football is all about timing. You can win titles in weak seasons (Leicester), FA Cups with easy draws and sides turning up drunk to the Final (United last season). You can also win European Cups in an era where you effectively just had to win the Final (Villa, Forest, Scousers). I think we’ve been unfortunate over the last couple of years but that’s football. This season we haven’t been good enough but equally have had a lot of bad luck. Some of our own making (injuries to attacking players) and some not (refs).

The thing that really annoys me though is that football has become one big hate watch. I reckon we get far more banter for finishing 2nd and not winning any of the cups than we do when we were getting tonked 6-0, 5-0, 4-0 by the “big 6”. United nicking trophies due to Euromillions odds runs of home draws is perceived as a major achievement vs Arsenal finishing 2 points behind a doped City. I just get really peed off with it as the recognition of what we have done is ignored (by a lot of posters on here too). This season we got it wrong and Arteta probably isn’t the guy but this side was a title winning side in most other seasons for the past two seasons. Our anger should be with City and the Premier League, not with Arteta.

Sorry, but you’re looking for excuses. Sure it’s possible to win titles in weak seasons, but we don’t seem to manage it. As for the Leicester example, it’s an absolute one off over the last 40+ years, so timing is far less important than having a good side. No one talked about timing when Liverpool, Utd and then City had their periods of dominance. If you’re running the club properly, then you don’t have to bank on “timing” giving you a freak break.

As for harking back to the old European Cup format, we didn’t win it then either. The top sides won it under the old format and under the new format.

Looking for these lame excuses is small club mentality. Of course we should be looking at Arteta, he’s the man who’s paid fortunes to get results. You’re using a losers mentality. Some people find excuses, some people find a way. Legohead is paid to find a way.

[Limerick Gooner]

So much of this comes down to a definition of "worst run" - and fans and business people often see a big difference between the two.

United are in a mess - the previous and current owners have as good as admitted as much and the much publicised cost cutting measures are an open sign of that. They have spunked hundreds of millions on utter shite, have a stadium that is falling to pieces and their pay offs to failed managers is at joke levels

The Chavs get a lot of stick with their casino strategy, and at the moment they are having a shit time of it but 2 European Cups and numerous league titles and other cups over the past 20 years mean their fans don't moan about it. Yep they chop and change managers and sometimes they get it spectacularly wrong but who cares? I've often said (and this is from someone who has been an FD and MD for many years), football isn't a proper business. Its not my money and I don't care. The Chavs will never recover their owners investments - the Russki didn't and this fella Boehly has no chance either. But here is where football is different - its a billionaire's plaything. They aren't looking at multiples of EBITDA, and ROI calcs - they'll sell it on to the next punter for $2-$5bn, who will be someone even more ludicrously wealthy e.g. Newcastle owners. Its why when we spent £100m+ on Rice, I'm like "yeah, bid deal, so what" - when your owner is worth $11bn its chump change.

We are just a boring boring club to be involved with. We don't have the Chavs casino strategy, but nor are we in dire straits like Man Ure. Our owner is worth a fortune, we won't be going bust, but we won't be winning anything major either

Football is all about timing. You can win titles in weak seasons (Leicester), FA Cups with easy draws and sides turning up drunk to the Final (United last season). You can also win European Cups in an era where you effectively just had to win the Final (Villa, Forest, Scousers). I think we’ve been unfortunate over the last couple of years but that’s football. This season we haven’t been good enough but equally have had a lot of bad luck. Some of our own making (injuries to attacking players) and some not (refs).

The thing that really annoys me though is that football has become one big hate watch. I reckon we get far more banter for finishing 2nd and not winning any of the cups than we do when we were getting tonked 6-0, 5-0, 4-0 by the “big 6”. United nicking trophies due to Euromillions odds runs of home draws is perceived as a major achievement vs Arsenal finishing 2 points behind a doped City. I just get really peed off with it as the recognition of what we have done is ignored (by a lot of posters on here too). This season we got it wrong and Arteta probably isn’t the guy but this side was a title winning side in most other seasons for the past two seasons. Our anger should be with City and the Premier League, not with Arteta.

Sorry, but you’re looking for excuses. Sure it’s possible to win titles in weak seasons, but we don’t seem to manage it. As for the Leicester example, it’s an absolute one off over the last 40+ years, so timing is far less important than having a good side. No one talked about timing when Liverpool, Utd and then City had their periods of dominance. If you’re running the club properly, then you don’t have to bank on “timing” giving you a freak break.

As for harking back to the old European Cup format, we didn’t win it then either. The top sides won it under the old format and under the new format.

Looking for these lame excuses is small club mentality. Of course we should be looking at Arteta, he’s the man who’s paid fortunes to get results. You’re using a losers mentality. Some people find excuses, some people find a way. Legohead is paid to find a way.

Let’s talk about the European Cup.

We won the League in 1971 and entered the European Cup in 1972. We got knocked out against a prime Ajax who won the thing. They won it three times in a row 1971, 1972 and 1973 so I’d say we were unlucky to win the League and get our shot in that particular period against a clearly dominant side. We then next won the League in 1989 but guess what we were banned from Europe. The Scousers had cleaned up in Europe over the previous period and then got everyone banned because of Heysel. When we won the League again in 1991 we got knocked out by Benfica. English Clubs had had no Europe due to the ban and so we had no practice, no pedigree in Europe. When we won the Cup Winners Cup in 1993 and got to the Final in 1994 we clearly had pedigree but the squad was poor and we weren’t even up to qualifying for the big pots. Unlucky. Timing my dear.

[the playing mantis]

So much of this comes down to a definition of "worst run" - and fans and business people often see a big difference between the two.

United are in a mess - the previous and current owners have as good as admitted as much and the much publicised cost cutting measures are an open sign of that. They have spunked hundreds of millions on utter shite, have a stadium that is falling to pieces and their pay offs to failed managers is at joke levels

The Chavs get a lot of stick with their casino strategy, and at the moment they are having a shit time of it but 2 European Cups and numerous league titles and other cups over the past 20 years mean their fans don't moan about it. Yep they chop and change managers and sometimes they get it spectacularly wrong but who cares? I've often said (and this is from someone who has been an FD and MD for many years), football isn't a proper business. Its not my money and I don't care. The Chavs will never recover their owners investments - the Russki didn't and this fella Boehly has no chance either. But here is where football is different - its a billionaire's plaything. They aren't looking at multiples of EBITDA, and ROI calcs - they'll sell it on to the next punter for $2-$5bn, who will be someone even more ludicrously wealthy e.g. Newcastle owners. Its why when we spent £100m+ on Rice, I'm like "yeah, bid deal, so what" - when your owner is worth $11bn its chump change.

We are just a boring boring club to be involved with. We don't have the Chavs casino strategy, but nor are we in dire straits like Man Ure. Our owner is worth a fortune, we won't be going bust, but we won't be winning anything major either

Football is all about timing. You can win titles in weak seasons (Leicester), FA Cups with easy draws and sides turning up drunk to the Final (United last season). You can also win European Cups in an era where you effectively just had to win the Final (Villa, Forest, Scousers). I think we’ve been unfortunate over the last couple of years but that’s football. This season we haven’t been good enough but equally have had a lot of bad luck. Some of our own making (injuries to attacking players) and some not (refs).

The thing that really annoys me though is that football has become one big hate watch. I reckon we get far more banter for finishing 2nd and not winning any of the cups than we do when we were getting tonked 6-0, 5-0, 4-0 by the “big 6”. United nicking trophies due to Euromillions odds runs of home draws is perceived as a major achievement vs Arsenal finishing 2 points behind a doped City. I just get really peed off with it as the recognition of what we have done is ignored (by a lot of posters on here too). This season we got it wrong and Arteta probably isn’t the guy but this side was a title winning side in most other seasons for the past two seasons. Our anger should be with City and the Premier League, not with Arteta.

Who signed havertz over a proper striker?

Had we signed a decent striker in the last 3 season we would have at least one title imo. That's all on the managers choice.

[DB10GOONER]

United showing real ambition to be fair by announcing plans for a new stadium.

I personally think we are the worst run “big club “ because nobody in charge wants to win anything. It is all about a top 4 league finish - and now a top 8 CL group stage finish

Very hard to disagree with that - even going back decades we as a club lacked the ambition of a proper big club. Yes we could talk the talk, and yes we could stick our chests out and talk shite about bank of england club, but when it came down to it we bought cheap and paid cheap too, so winning of trophies was never a high enough priority for ownership. David Dein was the one who changed that mindset, and then in the GG and early Wenger era we allowed ourselves to believe that we were now a proper big club, but the reality is that our owners and board would be pissed at the loss of revenue if we were excluded from a euopean super league, more than the loss of prestige

Overall though I really dont care who is the worst run big club - what boils my piss is that at a time when so many "big clubs" are being badly run, we as a club are not taking advantage cos we lack the ambition and know how in key positions (manager and boardroom). Again it also boils my piss how some (including sid) can point to how badly these other clubs are being run whilst also praising the cone boy for the job he is doing, without even once wondering if he is doing well cos they are shit in recent years We have never even hit 90pts in a season under the cone boy, and the victims twice surpassed that when finishing 2nd If anything we as Gooners should be raging that we havent taken advantage of our rivals more than we have, but instead we look for soft excuses to deflect away from our own issues - Sunday was a prime example cos we focused on how far our wall was back and used it as a defence for a shameful draw against a shit manure team Yes the wall was put too far back, BUT raya's positioning was unacceptable, plus our performance was for the most part a disgrace and we need to own that

Reading this braindead shite makes me realise why I stopped posting on here!
We've finished a close 2nd twice, the Kronkes have put their hand in their pocket!
That said I don't think Arteta can take us to the next level, but did give us back respectability!
Augie I think I remember in one of your insane posts that you're involved at "grassroots level" with the FAI!
That would probably explain why you dont have a fucking baldies!

When you dont recognise the points I am making and automatically dismiss them, then it is you that looks braindead not me

1. When as many "big clubs" are being badly run at the same time (as your poll rightly suggests), then doesnt it make sense that it is an easier time for the cone boy to finish second than a few years ago when manure and the chavs were constantly contenders to win the premier league and champions league ? If you acknowledge that, then surely it dilutes the great achievements that the cone boy keeps getting praised for

2. The kroenkes have indeed backed the cone boy more than any manager in our history - I will argue that spending money isnt the ONLY defining factor when it comes to showing ambition. Manure for all their faults, recognised that ten haag was never going to make them a great team again and sacked him despite the fact that he won 2 cups in the last 2 seasons - our cone boy has won nothing since he dismantled the squad he inherited and started spending the £800m, and that should raise flags imo. Recognising when a manager has reached his level (as both of us agree that the cone boy has), and having the guts to make the tough decision to replace him, sends a signal to the players, to the fans, and to the wider football world, that this is a club that wants to win these trophies and being nearly men is not enough for us - that to me is showing ambition, but our board will be too afraid to make that decision and will instead be grateful to the cone boy and will stick with him and the message that sends our players is that we are not ruthless enough to be real winners at the top level

Btw I never suggested I worked for the fai at any stage - I have filled numerous roles within my local club and served as secretary of our local league for two and a half seasons

You served as a secretary of your local league team, for two and half seasons and yet you carry on as you are some kind of total expert and constantly bad mouth it seems anyone with Arsenal Football Club, manager, owner, players and fans.

You always seem to get more enjoyment out of Arsenal losing than winning.

Honestly, what has that bit in red got to do with anything? It's a football forum. People come on here and give their opinions, that's all it is. Opinions. And they are free to do that. You don't seem to grasp how a forum works. Particularly as you very seldom give your own opinion about football, the club, or players, manager etc, you just mostly come on and have a pop at anyone that isn't an Arteta cultist or isn't just blindly slavishly praising the club.

Why don't you argue your case, give your opinion where you disagree with - for example - augie's post above? Tell us why in your opinion he is wrong, rather than just casting aspersions on his character.

[Retro Gunner]

So much of this comes down to a definition of "worst run" - and fans and business people often see a big difference between the two.

United are in a mess - the previous and current owners have as good as admitted as much and the much publicised cost cutting measures are an open sign of that. They have spunked hundreds of millions on utter shite, have a stadium that is falling to pieces and their pay offs to failed managers is at joke levels

The Chavs get a lot of stick with their casino strategy, and at the moment they are having a shit time of it but 2 European Cups and numerous league titles and other cups over the past 20 years mean their fans don't moan about it. Yep they chop and change managers and sometimes they get it spectacularly wrong but who cares? I've often said (and this is from someone who has been an FD and MD for many years), football isn't a proper business. Its not my money and I don't care. The Chavs will never recover their owners investments - the Russki didn't and this fella Boehly has no chance either. But here is where football is different - its a billionaire's plaything. They aren't looking at multiples of EBITDA, and ROI calcs - they'll sell it on to the next punter for $2-$5bn, who will be someone even more ludicrously wealthy e.g. Newcastle owners. Its why when we spent £100m+ on Rice, I'm like "yeah, bid deal, so what" - when your owner is worth $11bn its chump change.

We are just a boring boring club to be involved with. We don't have the Chavs casino strategy, but nor are we in dire straits like Man Ure. Our owner is worth a fortune, we won't be going bust, but we won't be winning anything major either

Football is all about timing. You can win titles in weak seasons (Leicester), FA Cups with easy draws and sides turning up drunk to the Final (United last season). You can also win European Cups in an era where you effectively just had to win the Final (Villa, Forest, Scousers). I think we’ve been unfortunate over the last couple of years but that’s football. This season we haven’t been good enough but equally have had a lot of bad luck. Some of our own making (injuries to attacking players) and some not (refs).

The thing that really annoys me though is that football has become one big hate watch. I reckon we get far more banter for finishing 2nd and not winning any of the cups than we do when we were getting tonked 6-0, 5-0, 4-0 by the “big 6”. United nicking trophies due to Euromillions odds runs of home draws is perceived as a major achievement vs Arsenal finishing 2 points behind a doped City. I just get really peed off with it as the recognition of what we have done is ignored (by a lot of posters on here too). This season we got it wrong and Arteta probably isn’t the guy but this side was a title winning side in most other seasons for the past two seasons. Our anger should be with City and the Premier League, not with Arteta.

Sorry, but you’re looking for excuses. Sure it’s possible to win titles in weak seasons, but we don’t seem to manage it. As for the Leicester example, it’s an absolute one off over the last 40+ years, so timing is far less important than having a good side. No one talked about timing when Liverpool, Utd and then City had their periods of dominance. If you’re running the club properly, then you don’t have to bank on “timing” giving you a freak break.

As for harking back to the old European Cup format, we didn’t win it then either. The top sides won it under the old format and under the new format.

Looking for these lame excuses is small club mentality. Of course we should be looking at Arteta, he’s the man who’s paid fortunes to get results. You’re using a losers mentality. Some people find excuses, some people find a way. Legohead is paid to find a way.

Let’s talk about the European Cup.

We won the League in 1971 and entered the European Cup in 1972. We got knocked out against a prime Ajax who won the thing. They won it three times in a row 1971, 1972 and 1973 so I’d say we were unlucky to win the League and get our shot in that particular period against a clearly dominant side. We then next won the League in 1989 but guess what we were banned from Europe. The Scousers had cleaned up in Europe over the previous period and then got everyone banned because of Heysel. When we won the League again in 1991 we got knocked out by Benfica. English Clubs had had no Europe due to the ban and so we had no practice, no pedigree in Europe. When we won the Cup Winners Cup in 1993 and got to the Final in 1994 we clearly had pedigree but the squad was poor and we weren’t even up to qualifying for the big pots. Unlucky. Timing my dear.

Absolute nonsense. How do you account for other sides winning it? How does anyone win the European Cup/CL if they're all waiting for the timing to be just right, or does that only apply to us? From decades of watching it, it seems to me that good teams have to beat other good teams to win it. You seem to be saying that we need the stars to align so that we don't have to face any decent sides (it's the CL ffs) and end up playing Brondby in the final.

I see your looking at our historical participation in the competition stops short of the Wenger period. We definitely had "practice" and "pedigree" for being in Europe during that time and qualifying for it was largely what kept the old fucker in a job. What was it, about 18 consecutive years of qualification? Yet in all that time, the stars didn't align and the "timing" was never quite right for us to win it. Bang goes your theory right there. From that entire period, the only occasion that I can recall an unusual, or surprise winner was Porto. That was the year the timing just wasn't right enough for us to beat Chelsea in the QF.