As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
I`m far from "bent out of shape " mate I can assure you, just totally disagree with you that`s all, but its all about opinions eh ? not a problem, lets just agree that I`m right and you are wrong and we can all move on lol !
I just think he is our best player by far, keeps things simple and ticking over whilst always putting a shift in , driving us forward and coming up with moments of magic, sometimes this season he has been playing in about 3 different positions covering peoples arses and putting fires out, I love him and if he wants to try and turn me gay I`m up for it!!
{ I agree he had one of his quieter games against Newcastle though }
Fair enough, it is all about opinions!
I'd be careful though, rodders might be very interested in your new found fondness for man love!
Rice is too inconsistent to be captain. He has good games where he has great moments, and then he has bad anonymous games with moments of greatness (like against the toon), but he also has completely anonymous games where he drifts out and contributes nothing. He never has a run of games where he is consistently brilliant and consistently leads.
I'd go with Gabriel for captain. I've also always liked the idea of a CH being captain as they can see the whole team in front of them and that perspective is best for telling team mates what they need to be told.
Having said that I'd take almost anyone ahead of Captain Invisible as our captain. He needs to go.
Have to disagree with your reasoning mate... Yes, Rice hasn't been as 'Consistent' as he was last season BUT for me there are Two main reasons for that, he is often the Only Player that does Turn Up besides, Timber,Gabriel and Saliba (when he has Gabriel to hold his hand).. Also he is expected to switch Roles every other week.
For me his best Position and Role is the No 6... He is strong, quick with very good skills from that position really does drive the team forward; whilst (secondly) also acting as a 'Cut-Out' and protecting the Back Four. So when Partey does play well He is allowed to do what he does best.
But when he is playing the No8 (more Defensive based) role and has the likes of an out-of form: Partey, Odeargod, Jorginho (who is ultra-slow... in the mind and the legs) to also contend with... He literally has too mcc on his plate.
For me if he had a Proper Mid-field Anchor & Protector beside him in the Middle... we would really see just how Good he is.
Rice is too inconsistent to be captain. He has good games where he has great moments, and then he has bad anonymous games with moments of greatness (like against the toon), but he also has completely anonymous games where he drifts out and contributes nothing. He never has a run of games where he is consistently brilliant and consistently leads.
I'd go with Gabriel for captain. I've also always liked the idea of a CH being captain as they can see the whole team in front of them and that perspective is best for telling team mates what they need to be told.
Having said that I'd take almost anyone ahead of Captain Invisible as our captain. He needs to go.
Have to disagree with your reasoning mate... Yes, Rice hasn't been as 'Consistent' as he was last season BUT for me there are Two main reasons for that, he is often the Only Player that does Turn Up besides, Timber,Gabriel and Saliba (when he has Gabriel to hold his hand).. Also he is expected to switch Roles every other week.
For me his best Position and Role is the No 6... He is strong, quick with very good skills from that position really does drive the team forward; whilst (secondly) also acting as a 'Cut-Out' and protecting the Back Four. So when Partey does play well He is allowed to do what he does best.
But when he is playing the No8 (more Defensive based) role and has the likes of an out-of form: Partey, Odeargod, Jorginho (who is ultra-slow... in the mind and the legs) to also contend with... He literally has too mcc on his plate.
For me if he had a Proper Mid-field Anchor & Protector beside him in the Middle... we would really see just how Good he is.
But basically, take away the circumstances of who he is playing with, and you have just agreed he is inconsistent.
I've never said he is shit or a poor player and I think a few people equate inconsistent with poor, which is not the case.
I think he is one of our better signings, and is a far superior player to Ohdeargod or Partey, but he is not consistently brilliant game after game.
I think we'd deffo see better more consistently from him if he had better players around him, but that does not mean he is not inconsistent at this point in time (this entire season).
Rice is too inconsistent to be captain. He has good games where he has great moments, and then he has bad anonymous games with moments of greatness (like against the toon), but he also has completely anonymous games where he drifts out and contributes nothing. He never has a run of games where he is consistently brilliant and consistently leads.
I'd go with Gabriel for captain. I've also always liked the idea of a CH being captain as they can see the whole team in front of them and that perspective is best for telling team mates what they need to be told.
Having said that I'd take almost anyone ahead of Captain Invisible as our captain. He needs to go.
Have to disagree with your reasoning mate... Yes, Rice hasn't been as 'Consistent' as he was last season BUT for me there are Two main reasons for that, he is often the Only Player that does Turn Up besides, Timber,Gabriel and Saliba (when he has Gabriel to hold his hand).. Also he is expected to switch Roles every other week.
For me his best Position and Role is the No 6... He is strong, quick with very good skills from that position really does drive the team forward; whilst (secondly) also acting as a 'Cut-Out' and protecting the Back Four. So when Partey does play well He is allowed to do what he does best.
But when he is playing the No8 (more Defensive based) role and has the likes of an out-of form: Partey, Odeargod, Jorginho (who is ultra-slow... in the mind and the legs) to also contend with... He literally has too mcc on his plate.
For me if he had a Proper Mid-field Anchor & Protector beside him in the Middle... we would really see just how Good he is.
But basically, take away the circumstances of who he is playing with, and you have just agreed he is inconsistent.
I've never said he is shit or a poor player and I think a few people equate inconsistent with poor, which is not the case.
I think he is one of our better signings, and is a far superior player to Ohdeargod or Partey, but he is not consistently brilliant game after game.
I think we'd deffo see better more consistently from him if he had better players around him, but that does not mean he is not inconsistent at this point in time (this entire season).
I don't know of a player who is or has been mate...
Anyway... I honestly believe we have yet to see his Best.
Rice is too inconsistent to be captain. He has good games where he has great moments, and then he has bad anonymous games with moments of greatness (like against the toon), but he also has completely anonymous games where he drifts out and contributes nothing. He never has a run of games where he is consistently brilliant and consistently leads.
I'd go with Gabriel for captain. I've also always liked the idea of a CH being captain as they can see the whole team in front of them and that perspective is best for telling team mates what they need to be told.
Having said that I'd take almost anyone ahead of Captain Invisible as our captain. He needs to go.
Have to disagree with your reasoning mate... Yes, Rice hasn't been as 'Consistent' as he was last season BUT for me there are Two main reasons for that, he is often the Only Player that does Turn Up besides, Timber,Gabriel and Saliba (when he has Gabriel to hold his hand).. Also he is expected to switch Roles every other week.
For me his best Position and Role is the No 6... He is strong, quick with very good skills from that position really does drive the team forward; whilst (secondly) also acting as a 'Cut-Out' and protecting the Back Four. So when Partey does play well He is allowed to do what he does best.
But when he is playing the No8 (more Defensive based) role and has the likes of an out-of form: Partey, Odeargod, Jorginho (who is ultra-slow... in the mind and the legs) to also contend with... He literally has too mcc on his plate.
For me if he had a Proper Mid-field Anchor & Protector beside him in the Middle... we would really see just how Good he is.
But basically, take away the circumstances of who he is playing with, and you have just agreed he is inconsistent.
I've never said he is shit or a poor player and I think a few people equate inconsistent with poor, which is not the case.
I think he is one of our better signings, and is a far superior player to Ohdeargod or Partey, but he is not consistently brilliant game after game.
I think we'd deffo see better more consistently from him if he had better players around him, but that does not mean he is not inconsistent at this point in time (this entire season).
I don't know of a player who is or has been mate...
Anyway... I honestly believe we have yet to see his Best.
I also believe we have yet to see his best, and he is capable of much more, but I think he is one of those players that will settle for lower standards if the players around him are shit (and they are!), and he will raise his game if he has great players around him.
Which is why I don't necessarily see him as captain material. A captain has to be able to self motivate and raise their own game and drag the team up with him. I just don't see that in Rice. He has spurts of leading from the front, but if the rest don't respond, he just drifts out of games. This happens too often.
I'd love to see him surrounded by top quality players behind a top striker, but unfortunately I don't think Arteta has the knowledge and the experience to make that happen.
I've stayed out of the rice debate to a large degree so far, mostly cos when I say anything slightly critical of him people jump all over it and assume it is an agenda over him jumping ship from Ireland, and that is totally not the case - my issue has always been that we overpaid for him (not worth £105m), but that he is still far and away our best midfielder in the team.
However the thing that always stands out for me with rice is that even still no-one (not the fans or media) seem to know what his best position is - look at the last few pages here and you will see comments from some claiming him to be a natural 6 (defensive midfielder), while there are a lot of us who believe that playing in the 8 allows him the freedom to do what he does best (hunt down the opposition high up the pitch and score few goals). Anyway my point is that if he excelled in either position there would probably be no debate as to what his best position is cos it will be recognised and acknowledged by all and sundry, but imo he does a good job in both but is top class in neither position, and I do believe that he gets a lot more credit because of his nationality (in the same way he would if he was a german playing in the german league for example).
I've stayed out of the rice debate to a large degree so far, mostly cos when I say anything slightly critical of him people jump all over it and assume it is an agenda over him jumping ship from Ireland, and that is totally not the case - my issue has always been that we overpaid for him (not worth £105m), but that he is still far and away our best midfielder in the team.
However the thing that always stands out for me with rice is that even still no-one (not the fans or media) seem to know what his best position is - look at the last few pages here and you will see comments from some claiming him to be a natural 6 (defensive midfielder), while there are a lot of us who believe that playing in the 8 allows him the freedom to do what he does best (hunt down the opposition high up the pitch and score few goals). Anyway my point is that if he excelled in either position there would probably be no debate as to what his best position is cos it will be recognised and acknowledged by all and sundry, but imo he does a good job in both but is top class in neither position, and I do believe that he gets a lot more credit because of his nationality (in the same way he would if he was a german playing in the german league for example).
What a negative opinion just because he jumped ship from Ireland
I think his best position is as an 8. Hopefully we sign a decent defensive midfielder to play alongside him. Rice will then get a consistent run in the same position which in turn will help with his consistency. Perhaps the plan is for that player to be zubimendi. I have no idea how good or bad he is but playing alongside or having to step in for Partey, Jorginho etc can’t have helped Rice.
The price tag comment I always find a bit weird Augie, if a player is good I couldn`t give a rats arse how much we paid for him, makes no difference to us, we as supporters will always pay through the nose for everything associated with Arsenal regardless of how much we pay for certain players, I only have an issue with price tags when we pay shit loads for poor players ie £70m for Pepe!!!!
If we sold Rice this transfer window we would easily get £150m for him all day long, making a profit, so how can he not be worth £100m 2 years ago???
Anyway, he is worth it, been our best player for 2 seasons running and is the heartbeat of the team, of course, being English we feel more affinity to British players, we always prefer that as fans, would Tierney be appreciated for his service as much as he has been if he was German ? course not!
Thats how it works, all very natural, as are your feelings of angst against Dec for deciding to turn away from you lot, totally understandable
The price tag comment I always find a bit weird Augie, if a player is good I couldn`t give a rats arse how much we paid for him, makes no difference to us, we as supporters will always pay through the nose for everything associated with Arsenal regardless of how much we pay for certain players, I only have an issue with price tags when we pay shit loads for poor players ie £70m for Pepe!!!!
If we sold Rice this transfer window we would easily get £150m for him all day long, making a profit, so how can he not be worth £100m 2 years ago???
Anyway, he is worth it, been our best player for 2 seasons running and is the heartbeat of the team, of course, being English we feel more affinity to British players, we always prefer that as fans, would Tierney be appreciated for his service as much as he has been if he was German ? course not!
Thats how it works, all very natural, as are your feelings of angst against Dec for deciding to turn away from you lot, totally understandable
£150 million?? No one’s paying that.
A few of us have said what Augie says above…we needed a Rice type midfielder and he’s the best in our side by far (mind you, it’s a fucking low bar), but we overpaid at £105 million.
The argument why it should concern us as supporters, is because there’s a limit on what we can spend. Firstly because our owners don’t bank roll the way the owners of Chelsea and City have done and secondly, because of the financial rules about expenditure. So, overspend on a player and you’ll have less money to spend in other areas.
I've stayed out of the rice debate to a large degree so far, mostly cos when I say anything slightly critical of him people jump all over it and assume it is an agenda over him jumping ship from Ireland, and that is totally not the case - my issue has always been that we overpaid for him (not worth £105m), but that he is still far and away our best midfielder in the team.
However the thing that always stands out for me with rice is that even still no-one (not the fans or media) seem to know what his best position is - look at the last few pages here and you will see comments from some claiming him to be a natural 6 (defensive midfielder), while there are a lot of us who believe that playing in the 8 allows him the freedom to do what he does best (hunt down the opposition high up the pitch and score few goals). Anyway my point is that if he excelled in either position there would probably be no debate as to what his best position is cos it will be recognised and acknowledged by all and sundry, but imo he does a good job in both but is top class in neither position, and I do believe that he gets a lot more credit because of his nationality (in the same way he would if he was a german playing in the german league for example).
This idea of a number 6, or number 8 or holding midfielder, or attacking midfielder always gets me down.
Call me old fashioned, but I long for box to box midfielders that can do both. Think of Paddy, Petit, Cesc, Scholes (far and away the best English midfielder of the last 30 odd years) Keane etc. Even Kante, who was ostensibly a defensive midfielder had the ability to get forward.
Sure, some were better defensively and some better getting forward, but they were expected to do both and to have the football intelligence to cover for each other. Personally, I’ve never really been a fan of a “holding” midfielder that just patrols in front of the centre halves and does nothing else.
The price tag comment I always find a bit weird Augie, if a player is good I couldn`t give a rats arse how much we paid for him, makes no difference to us, we as supporters will always pay through the nose for everything associated with Arsenal regardless of how much we pay for certain players, I only have an issue with price tags when we pay shit loads for poor players ie £70m for Pepe!!!!
If we sold Rice this transfer window we would easily get £150m for him all day long, making a profit, so how can he not be worth £100m 2 years ago???
Anyway, he is worth it, been our best player for 2 seasons running and is the heartbeat of the team, of course, being English we feel more affinity to British players, we always prefer that as fans, would Tierney be appreciated for his service as much as he has been if he was German ? course not!
Thats how it works, all very natural, as are your feelings of angst against Dec for deciding to turn away from you lot, totally understandable
Here's the thing, I know that with every new tv deal transfer prices have increased more, and as such the values of players have increased, but to me when you break the £100m price barrier you should be talking about elite level technique - to me you are talking about a midfielder who could put the ball through the eye of a needle, or dribble past players with ease before scoring or setting up a goal, or a midfielder that gets deep into double figures as a goalscoring midfielder, and imo rice doesnt meet any of those criteria. To me he is a hunter that chases down the opposition players through sheer hard work and that lifts his team-mates, plus he chips in with a few important goals from midfield as well, so it isnt that he is a bad player at all, but for me he isnt elite and a £100m+ player should always be elite
Yeah cant argue with any of that mate however when i imagine this team WITHOUT Rice in it, its a scary thought, the price tag for me = importance to the team and without him this season especially we would be mid table ! That`s why he is worth what we paid and more in my opinion
Yeah cant argue with any of that mate however when i imagine this team WITHOUT Rice in it, its a scary thought, the price tag for me = importance to the team and without him this season especially we would be mid table ! That`s why he is worth what we paid and more in my opinion
agreed...hes not the glamour player that catches the eye....say a Liam Brady.....but ask his team mates how vital he is.....IMO a top rate player despite the dross he plays with and a manager hes probably seriously begining to question......
Yeah cant argue with any of that mate however when i imagine this team WITHOUT Rice in it, its a scary thought, the price tag for me = importance to the team and without him this season especially we would be mid table ! That`s why he is worth what we paid and more in my opinion
agreed...hes not the glamour player that catches the eye....say a Liam Brady.....but ask his team mates how vital he is.....IMO a top rate player despite the dross he plays with and a manager hes probably seriously begining to question......
And while I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying, I would also say that if you ask captain invisible's team-mates about how important he is, I suspect you would get comments putting him up alongside pele, jesus christ, nelson madela and gandhi
Yeah cant argue with any of that mate however when i imagine this team WITHOUT Rice in it, its a scary thought, the price tag for me = importance to the team and without him this season especially we would be mid table ! That`s why he is worth what we paid and more in my opinion
agreed...hes not the glamour player that catches the eye....say a Liam Brady.....but ask his team mates how vital he is.....IMO a top rate player despite the dross he plays with and a manager hes probably seriously begining to question......
And while I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying, I would also say that if you ask captain invisible's team-mates about how important he is, I suspect you would get comments putting him up alongside pele, jesus christ, nelson madela and gandhi
He is allowed to do what he does best.
No one’s paying that. 