CAN YOU STILL DEFEND WENGER????

[donaldo]

If Wenger can keep hold of or major players and we continue to 'make' stars as opposed to buying them we can still compete with the silly money teams.

So you honestly think Cesc will stay at a club that has shown no ambition during the summer.That has refused to buy a DM to partner him.That will be fighting to finish 4th.The guy is a winner he wants to play in a team that wins trophies

[green gooner]

The answer to the question in the first place is, NO

[IW8Goalmachine]

this the beginning of the end for wenger he needs to pull his head out of his arse

[Boomer]

If Wenger can keep hold of or major players and we continue to 'make' stars as opposed to buying them we can still compete with the silly money teams.

So you honestly think Cesc will stay at a club that has shown no ambition during the summer.That has refused to buy a DM to partner him.That will be fighting to finish 4th.The guy is a winner he wants to play in a team that wins trophies

I didn't say he could I said IF he could get the players to stay.

As Rob points out we've lost Flamini, Hleb and almost Ade. Out of those players which went for football reasons?
These will be the same reasons why we don't need players like Robiniho!

I think we all need to calm down and take stock.

I was going to continue but realise I was going on a rant.
However, simple fact is whether Wenger sticks by what we've got or we see the coming of a new reserves players, only Wenger knows.

We've got to support him and the team.

[donaldo]

If Wenger can keep hold of or major players and we continue to 'make' stars as opposed to buying them we can still compete with the silly money teams.

So you honestly think Cesc will stay at a club that has shown no ambition during the summer.That has refused to buy a DM to partner him.That will be fighting to finish 4th.The guy is a winner he wants to play in a team that wins trophies

I didn't say he could I said IF he could get the players to stay.

As Rob points out we've lost Flamini, Hleb and almost Ade. Out of those players which went for football reasons?
These will be the same reasons why we don't need players like Robiniho!

I think we all need to calm down and take stock.

I was going to continue but realise I was going on a rant.
However, simple fact is whether Wenger sticks by what we've got or we see the coming of a new reserves players, only Wenger knows.

We've got to support him and the team.

I will always support the team but Wenger is not beyond criticism.Only a blind man could not see we needed a commanding CH and a DM.He has had 3 months to buy them but has failed.If he fails to deliver this season he deserves to get stick for that.

[augie]

People come on here voicing their opinions about the club being in serious shit and they are pounced on again by the mindless few ?? Whether or not their opinions or valid or not it is their honest opinions and should not allow themselves to be spoken down to just bacause someone else disagrees with them FFS one member even took offence at being told to go support his local team after he starting the whole thing by telling fans to fcuk off and support citeeh or the chavs - you really couldnt make it up

It is as simple as this people - last season we fell away cos our squad is below acceptable levels in both quality and numbers. Yet again we have lost more players than we have brought in and have turned a transfer profit which may be great for the balance sheet but fcuking useless if you harbour ambitions to actually win something other than stadium or groundsman awards You also have to agree that there is an acceptability that we are not going to challenge for the big prizes at the mo and I for one do not accept that - we are being charged top whack by the club with no effort to reinvest any of that money into making the team successful and as I said that is unacceptable for me.

I do place the majority of this problem at the feet of the board who have now brought the club as far as they can and that is painfully obvious to most on here. However wenger could and should have done a hell of a lot more even on a restrictive budget. To lose flamini and not replace him was amazing in itself but to then allow bert to leave again without a replacement is gross mismanagement by anyones standards. Wenger himself acknowledged the need for another player in this area and promised to bring in one but again nothing. A shake up is long overdue now starting at the very top (board) and if it works down to wenger then so be it - we existed and survived before wenger came along and I have no doubt that we will do so after he has left us

[Boomer]

Only a blind man could not see we needed a commanding CH and a DM.He has had 3 months to buy them but has failed.If he fails to deliver this season he deserves to get stick for that.

Before I say this I'm not being argumentative.

Who says we need a CH & a DM?

[donaldo]

Only a blind man could not see we needed a commanding CH and a DM.He has had 3 months to buy them but has failed.If he fails to deliver this season he deserves to get stick for that.

Before I say this I'm not being argumentative.

Who says we need a CH & a DM?

Every Fucking Arsenal fan except you Boomer.So you are happy with Gallas and Toure are you the same partnership that hasnt worked for the last two seasons.
As for a DM you are having a laugh now.In the last year we have lost Diarra,Flamini and Gilberto and not one of them was replaced.I hope you saw Denilson and Eboue at Fulham

Keep dreaming Boomer

[xDAVEYx]

Only a blind man could not see we needed a commanding CH and a DM.He has had 3 months to buy them but has failed.If he fails to deliver this season he deserves to get stick for that.

Before I say this I'm not being argumentative.

Who says we need a CH & a DM?

djourou and song. problem solved

[Rob]

Boomer, at the end of last season Wenger himself correctly analysed that we had conceeded 10 more goals than the Mancs and Chelsea and that they had come either from dead ball situations or from long punts down the middle.

So we needed a new central defender.

That's what he said and led us all to believe.

Instead we have loaned out Senderous and Nortveit and acquired no one.

We need a new CM because we have lost 4 since last year and only brought in two.

If we weren't strong enough last year and have lost two (numerically) where are we now ?

[Robsy]

It is as simple as this people - last season we fell away cos our squad is below acceptable levels in both quality and numbers.

I disagree with you suggesting we didn't have the quality - we came 3rd by 4 points last season! We didn't have the numbers when a combination of injuries and bad form hit us.

You also have to agree that there is an acceptability that we are not going to challenge for the big prizes at the mo

I disagree with this. We came 3rd by 4 points last season! We were definitely up there challenging in both the league and to a lesser extent the Champions League & Carling Cup.

and I for one do not accept that - we are being charged top whack by the club with no effort to reinvest any of that money into making the team successful and as I said that is unacceptable for me.

This 'top whack' business has always been a tough one. Yes I pay £44 a game for my ticket (including Champs League & FA cup) and I sit in one of the cheaper seats. But I watch one of the best teams in the World in the most expensive City in the World. I wouldn't expect to pay the prices I do if I was in Liverpool or Manchester or Newcastle, but then life in general isn't as expensive in those city's. by a long long way.

Of course I'd like to pay less, but I don't feel ripped off at all.

I do place the majority of this problem at the feet of the board who have now brought the club as far as they can and that is painfully obvious to most on here.

...to some on here...

However wenger could and should have done a hell of a lot more even on a restrictive budget. To lose flamini and not replace him was amazing in itself but to then allow bert to leave again without a replacement is gross mismanagement by anyones standards. Wenger himself acknowledged the need for another player in this area and promised to bring in one but again nothing.

I agree that Wenger's actions are strange and not what we expected, but I'm not as doom and gloom in our chances this year with the team we have.

A shake up is long overdue now starting at the very top (board) and if it works down to wenger then so be it - we existed and survived before wenger came along and I have no doubt that we will do so after he has left us

Yes we have existed and survived before Wenger came along, but remember a lot of the board we already in place and had been for some time.

A few seasons not winning anything doesn't mean wholesale changes, if you can't see the potential in Wenger's squad then fair enough. But in a few of the new boys I have hope and optimisim.

Nasri looks better then Hleb;
Vela looks like he could be important this year;
Song is ever improving on whatever stage he plays;
and our defense is not as bad as all that - in Clichy and Sagna we have the best full-backs in the country!

I do trust Wenger and although I also want us to splash the cash, I'm not so disapointed we didn't. One player, in whatever position, was not going to suddenly turn our season around and make us the title champions! I believe we will be there or there-abouts this year despite not buying anyone.

[Rob]

I should add, that I CAN see where you are coming from and although I don't always sound it, I do try to be optimistic and always get behind the team. I am certainly not criticising you or anyone else for doing that.

But Wenger's approach has in the last few years left me in considerable doubt and after this, I'm just incredulous as to his complacancy.

[26may1989]

How do I feel about Arsenal this morning? Depressed, underwhelmed, annoyed, worried and slightly betrayed. And that from a Wenger diehard.

Having looked at the Arsenal Supporters' Trust's analysis of the club's last accounts, I don't believe Wenger had any more than £25m to spend going into the summer break (probably including for wages). Anyone who thinks he had more, or that this fact should be ignored, is deluded. But by my calculations (taking into account the sell-on fees on Bentley and Muamba), we made a trading profit of something like £7m during the summer. So, coming to the end of the transfer window, Wenger probably had something like £30m to spend.

The need for a DM was obvious: any CB combination of Gallas, Toure, Silvestre, Djourou or Song is going to fall short of being watertight, and the keepers behind them (Almunia or Fabianski) are equally worrying (i.e., ok to good, but not great). Reliable central protection in midfield was needed.

Wenger acknowledged the need for "one more body", and signed Silvestre, but also then sold Hoyte and sent Senderos off on loan. He knew we needed more, and according to reports (no doubt, unreliable), he tried to sign Alonso yesterday. But Wenger failed.

Where does this leave us?

Not as bad as some seem to think: we've still got a better squad than Spurs, Man City, Villa and Pompey, but those sides are all now better placed to put pressure on the top four. Liverpool still look much weaker than us, and I think won't be in the top four this season. Chelsea are still very strong but now only have three strikers, and arguably are weaker than they were last season. But United have strengthened their one area of weakness, up front, and United fans must be feeling pretty good about things today.

Wenger's failure (and that's what it is) to use the £30m he had to shore up midfield is a gamble. It might pay off, if our luck is better this season than last. But he has now put unnecessary and potentially destructive pressure on himself and on the players. If we don't do better than last season (probably winning the league is essential), the tabs and more importantly the doubters amongst Arsenal fans will be calling for Wenger's head. We need to keep him but this failure runs serious risks for both Wenger and the club. He has given ammunition to those who threaten his future.

And it was all unnecessary. Having failed in his bid for Inler, Wenger could and should have signed Alonso, Veloso or Barry. We have lots of great players, and in some ways are in better shape this season than we were last, but the failure to make that one additional signing, when the money was clearly there, and despite the fact that it might mean paying over the odds, could well become an albatross round Wenger's neck.

We'll all be crossing our fingers and hoping for more of the performances against Newcastle.

[Boomer]

Right, I delibratley decided not to post my views but to add it as a question.

I too Donaldo believe we could do with replacing serveral players if it were me in charge.
If it me I'd replace Almunia, I'd also get rid of Ade. I'd give walcott and Eboue a bit longer. I still think the juries out on Eboue I not lost hope like most of you.


The fact is I'm not in charge nor are you or any one else!

The simply fact is Wenger has decided not to buy for a reason.
The reports are that Liverpool last night turned down a bid of £14m for Alonso form us.

Would Alonso solved all our problems? No I don't think it would.
I believe that Wenger is working with the resources given to him as well us taking to account whether a new player would have the mentality and skilll in balance to our squad. This is as well as keeping faith to developing young talent

[CraigPollard]

Thsi thing is central mid wins you games. If you win the midfield battle, you should control the game. As Arsenal have done for many years. This is why the Arsenal v Utd games of yesteryear were so entertaining, the entire Vieira v Keane saga had everyone gripped.

However, in the last 4 years we have lost Vieira, Gilberto, Flamini, Diarra, Edu, Pires, Freddie, Hleb and many more all from midfield! And a lot of them from C Midfield!

We have one player left from the untouchables! and since that season we have been a "team in transition" - But we have lost so many since this that every year we become another team in transition!

This summer we lost 10 players through either sales or loans and brought in 4 that are eligible for the first team! Cesc is our most experienced player at 21 years old! - Our 7 man bench at fulham had an average age of 19.5!!!

We cannot continue like this, and although its blatantly obvious we can no longer keep up with Utd, Chelsea and now City in spending power, it shouldnt mean we dont buy altogether and become a selling club!

Someone earlier commented on how many times Wenger has had us finish outside out the top 4! I ask you this, before we started signing kids left right and centre, how many times under him did we finish outside the top 2!!!!

Last year we were unlucky with injuries, but we were lucky to be there or thereabouts at all!! No one expected us to do that well, and no one should expect it again!