Are we buying anyone else yes or no?

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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I Hate Hleb
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Post by I Hate Hleb »

BELFAST BOY,

I AGREE, ALTHOUGH I HARDLY THINK THE PROSPECT OF LOSING TO OXFORD UNITED - ALTHOUGH HUGELY EMBARASSING TO THE REPUTATION OF THE PLAYERS, CLUB AND FANS WERE IT TO HAPPEN - COULD EVER REALLY BE CONSIDERED A 'BACKS-TO-THE-WALL' PRESSURE SITUATION! THEREFORE, AGAIN IT WAS A BAD EXAMPLE.

YET, IF I UNDERSTAND YOUR ARGUMENT ABOVE PROPERLY, THE MAIN REASON WE WON AT INTER WAS BECAUSE WE DIDN'T REALLY EXPECT TO WIN, THEREFORE THE PRESSURE WAS OFF US!! :shock: :roll: EH?? :?

IT'S PRECISELY BECAUSE WE NEEDED TO WIN THAT MATCH OR FACE AN EARLY EXIT FROM THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE, THAT MEANT OUR BACKS WERE AGAINST THE WALL AND THE PRESSURE WAS ON THE SIDE - NOT OFF IT!!

YES, SOME SPORTMEN HAVE CLAIMED THAT THEIR PERFORMANCE IMPROVED ONCE THEY FELT THEY HAD NOTHING TO LOSE AND THUS THEIR NERVES DISAPPEARED.

EQUALLY, WE KNOW THAT SOME SPORTMEN PERFORM PRECISELY BECAUSE OF THOSE SAME NERVES OR PRESSURES BEING THERE. IT GOES UNDER ANOTHER NAME - ADRENALINE!! AND THE PLAYERS THAT HARNESS THAT ADRENALINE ALSO GO UNDER ANOTHER NAME - WINNERS!! :roll: :lol: :wink:

Belfast Boy
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Post by Belfast Boy »

augie wrote: By the way I would like to put it on the record that I totally resent the statement that we are a club that have punched above our weight - that sort of a statement is generally reserved for smaller clubs(nottingham forest in their day & wimbledon if you like) not for a club that has a long history of being pioneers in british football. The only things that has made us a slightly smaller club than some others in the past is a small stadium and a small minded policy from the successive boards.
Well surprise surprise I beg to differ Augie but not just because it's you :wink: and I hope the reverse is true :D
The point I tried to make in my earlier post was everybody who has won the Prem more than once has had to break all sorts of transfer records and spend hundreds of millions of pounds, and those who didn't spend into the nine figures were subsequently relegated!
I don't think you can just dismiss the fact that we had one of the smallest gates in the Prem, nevermind the regular top ten clubs, as a side issue, cos it was a huge obstacle to success that previous boards had identified and tried to overcome many times evidenced by the numerous failed planning applications for Highbury!
This is why the first priority of all these new investors is to build new stadia and ManU keep announcing expansions to try and stay ahead, because it was an advantage they were always used to having and probably realise how crucial it is!
I agree that the club have always been a major player in pioneering all aspects of the game as we know it today, but I fail to see why that should translate into Prem titles in fact much has been made of a similar issue lately, with Gooners and pundits alike complaining that just cos we play fantastic football does not give us the right to win, plus the lower echelons of the league are littered with famous clubs who helped shape football!
Everybody is aware that money is all important in today's game not everything but certainly the key ingredient that you'll win very little without and I hate to keep pointing this out but our rivals are not short of a bob or two!
I would honestly like to hear why you think L'pool never even had a sniff of the Prem despite bein a massive club, with a record no. of league titles, a regular full house and a large worldwide fanbase???
Please understand I am not sayin that we are a small cos that simply is not true, and we have a history and a pedigree to be proud of but to say that we have not done extremely well or punched above our weight as relative paupers in a money dominated world is IMHO denying the genius of AW and what he has done for us!

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I Hate Hleb
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Post by I Hate Hleb »

BELFAST BOY,

NOW WITH YOUR LAST POST I CAN AGREE!! WELL REASONED AND ARGUED IN EQUAL MEASURE. 8) :lol:

AND MY FRIEND, PLEASE DON'T TAKE ANY OF THE CRITICISM TO HEART. I'M SURE NO-ONE IS DELIBERATELY 'PICKING ON' ANYONE ELSE ON THIS FORUM. WE JUST HAPPEN TO DISAGREE WITH EACH OTHER SOMETIMES. BUT I THINK IT'S MAINLY BEEN GOOD READING - EVEN THE THINGS I DISAGREE WITH - AND I KNOW IT'S ALL WRITTEN OUT OF LOVE FOR THE ARSENAL. 8) :lol: :wink:

P.S.

GOOD NEWS. ARSENE HAS ADMITTED TODAY THAT THE SQUAD WAS A BIT SHORT ON NUMBERS AND THAT HE WOULD SIGN ONE, MAYBE TWO MORE PLAYERS. THAT IS IN STARK CONTRAST TO WHAT HE SAID ONLY A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO :roll: , BUT VERY PLEASING TO HEAR NONE-THE-LESS. :D :lol: :wink:
Last edited by I Hate Hleb on Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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I Hate Hleb
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Post by I Hate Hleb »

SORRY, REPEAT POST.

THOSE BLOODY SERVERS HAVEN'T GOT ANY QUICKER HAVE THEY, GOONER.ED? :roll: :roll: :lol: :wink:

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Cockerill's chin
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Post by Cockerill's chin »

Miss a couple of days on the forum and you miss out.

Belfast boy, I asked the question of what you thought what our weight was because I anticipated why I have a difference with you optimists. I think Arsenal should be competing for the Premiership, whereas you just seem to be happy we are there in the first place. That's why I'm worried and you're not. I expect more.

I think our weight is to compete for silverware. We did this bewfore AW, and we will do this after him. Take a look at George's cabinet:


League Cup winners 1987
League Cup runners-up 1988
League Championship 1989
League Championship 1991
FA Cup winners 1993
League Cup winners 1993
European Cup Winners Cup winners 1994

We are not a pauper of a club. You insist on comparing us to Manure's fanbase and focus your argument on finances available to a club.

I remember Manure going 27 years without a trophy with their amazing fanbase. Don't kid yourself that they have only spent money since the premiership came into existence. History can tell you otherwise.

Anfield dominated with a capacity of only 7,000 more than Highbury, but gate receipts were not reflected by 7,000 as we have always had to pay more to watch the Arsenal.

Extra revenue has always been generated for the Arsenal by qualifying for Europe. We have been at the weight we should be.

My worry is that this summer by refusing to spend a few pounds, we have, ironically, lost a few pounds in our weight.

Raise your expectations, be more of a demanding supporter than a mediocrity accepting fan. :wink:

By the way, I think AW is a god too, it's just that I happen to love Arsenal more than I love our manager.

Ben-gooner14
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Post by Ben-gooner14 »

Wenger said in programme notes for the tornament he will probally bring in one more player and maybe a second. Good news.

Belfast Boy
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Post by Belfast Boy »

Where did you get the the impression that I would be happy to mosey about at the top table without really challenging for silverware, my presence on here alone should tell you otherwise!
I certainly don't consider myself unrealistically optimistic either, and I don't know how many different ways to say this but if we hadn't built a new stadium I'd be worried, if we didn't have a manager as capable as AW I'd be worried, if our debt stood well into nine figures with nothing to show for it I'd be worried, if we didn't have one of the best academies in the world, I'd be worried and if we had an aging team living off past glories with no future or no money to rebuild then yes I'd be worried!
So as I'm sure, you'll see where I'm going with all this, the fact is I think the future is pretty bright, but there's no doubt that we are going thru a period of change which will inevitably lead to a lean period because of failures and mistakes especially where the young players themselves are concerned, and that's not to say that the boss is totally perfect either but I think he has a vision of the academy being the bedrock of the club so that eventually we can keep the perfect blend of age and experience and build upon that with shrewd signings, and I think that is definately a policy worth pursuing!
As for GG he has certainly played an enormous part in our history and I have thought many a time that it was the success we enjoyed under his tenure that was the stepping stone to Wenger coming! But as much as I have a soft spot for George not least for 26/5/89 :D we needed to change our image cos (and at the risk of sounding like Yoda) we were never going to continue to the next level, on the back of attracting new fans or sponsors cos nobody wants to see that sort of football anymore, and as I'm sure many will agree it's still a work in progress before we can truly call ourselves a 'big' club, but IMHO and in my experience we are doin ok cos slow and steady is the way to build things that last, you know easy come easy go and all that stuff, which in fact reminds me of a wee motto me and my mates used to have in the days of the back four - steadfast and sure!
As far as financial muscle is concerned this is where I think ManU were very lucky in that they picked a very good time to hit a purple patch and rode the wave of renewed fervour for football after the dark days of 70s/80s led by Sky and the formation of the Prem and the money it provided along with poster boy Becks and an excellent marketing machine which won them fans from areas of the country like London for instance that have their own top teams :? and then of course the massive far east market as well and the whole thing has just snowballed from there!
Similarly, I think that we were also extremely fortunate to land Le Boss when we did otherwise would we have secured all that Champ's League money and all those titles with a style that has won us a new generation of fans??? even what havin arguably the best player in the world at the club has done for our profile cannot be overestimated!!! ........... had things not happened as they did, then I think we really would have been in serious danger of bein left behind!
I don't know what the relevance of ManU not winning a trophy for 27 yrs prior to their recent rise to power has got to do with today because in those days the title regularly changed hands, whereas today the gap between the rich and the poor is huge and no more so than where the Mancs sre concerned and they have never enjoyed such financial superiority over the rest of the clubs as they have in the past ten yrs or so! Do you think the fact that Chelsea won their first ever league title and then proceeded to defend it was a conincidence to RA taking control??? and until he came along with literally billions in cash, ourselves and Utd had a complete monopoly on the title apart as I said before, the house that Jack built which altho, as par for the course it cost him a fortune, he UNfortunately built it on sand, and as we all know relegation followed swiftly!
Again where the weight issue is concerned, the point I thought I had made clearly was that it was AW's genius that has kept us in the CL every single year since he took over, and the fact he did it on a low budget whilst redirecting funds to a new stadium and a new ground is, I think, staggering, I seriously doubt there are many if any managers in the game who could've carried that off inc. GG, this is what I mean by punching above our weight - as in financial terms which is why many our calling for a takeover cos they are afraid of us getting left behind!
I wish you wouldn't twist my words I distinctly said that we were a RELATIVE pauper next to the two richest clubs in the world especially off the back of the Grove project and will remain so until we at least recoup the 100M + for the redevelopment of Highbury!
Yes Anfield's capacity is only 7000 greater than ours which again lends more weight to the theory that small capacity does seriously hinder any progress, but I still think their match gate would've been nearly a couple of hundred grand more than ours in real terms anyway cos it must surely cost more to run a stadium in one of the dearest capital cities in the world as opposed to L'pool, I don't know that for sure but it's just a thought!
Finally, I really hope because I'm calling for some sense of SHORT TERM perspective in light of the dramatic changes at our club, that you are not suggesting that I have somehow given up the ghost and accepted mediocrity a la Spurs, I think as I've said many times before that we need to be patient for just one more season or even half a season to find out whether AW's faith in his youngsters was misplaced or not cos make no mistake he knows this is arguably the biggest season of his career and he is staking his considerable reputation on them!
Finally (again :wink: ) I think I can safely say that everyone on here feels the same as you, we love AFC first and foremost, and are not necessarily going to jump ship should he leave for another club, which I s'pose I'd better say for the record I don't think he'll ever do!
Last edited by Belfast Boy on Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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augie
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Post by augie »

Are you beginning to feel a bit isolated Belfast Boy cos on this topic it does seem that you are very much in the minority. I have to tip my hat to you because, like myself, if you believe in something you will fight to defend that opinion no matter if the whole world is against you. I know that one of your "positives" is the promising future with all our young players but surely you will admit that these players need more experience alongside them to assist in their development ? That experience that we badly need does not come cheap and from where I am sitting our board think they can continue to run the playing side of our club on the cheap. I accept that financially we have been in a better condition but I also think the mentality of this board is playing a huge role in our lack of spending. This board has had an hugely successful 10 year period under wenger without having to spend f*ck all to acheive it(£5m per season net spending) and I think that they feel this can continue. We've had 2 very poor seasons in the league now and warning signals should be going off everywhere but to my mind (& lot of other fans minds on this forum) there has not been enough action taken to avoid this slump becoming long-term.

You rightly refer to the cost of our new stadium but I again refer you to the undeniable fact that should we fail to qualify for next seasons champions league the money lost to the club would be greater than the cost of buying the players now to ensure it doesn't happen. I believe that because of our financial state it is imperative that now more than ever we invest more in our playing squad because the possible negatives down the line don't bear thinking about.

Maybe next May we will all be relaxing on the back of a great season thinking that the belfast boy was so right and we were so wrong and nothing would give me greater pleasure. However based on the squad development so far this summer it is not a bet I would like to take up on at the moment. I also wished I shared your confidence re wenger's contract scenario - 70% believes he will sign but I do believe that his confidence in the club has been badly shook over the DD sacking and he would like to see him re-instated asap. If for no other reason than that then I would like to see DD back even if it wasn't as part of some big cash injection buyout and if that event resulted in the departure of a few current board members then I for one will not lose a seconds sleep. After all if they are not contributing financially to the cause then their purpose there is questionable because they sure as hell aint "football people" like DD.

Eboue Can't Defend
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Post by Eboue Can't Defend »

You know what guys, we basically all agree on most things regarding this subject, with just a few minor differences.

We all agree Wenger is great and has done a superb job. No-one else could have achieved what Arsene has over the past decade, given the financial resources available to him. I also think that we're in agreement that in an ideal world, David Dein would come back to Arsenal. Yet, none of us think it should be as part of any Glazer-like takeover by Kroenke, where the club and the fans pay the ultimate price of the acquisition.

We also concur that ideally we could do with a couple more experienced players. The only real difference that I can discern is that Belfast Boy doesn't think there is any need to panic if we don't purchase the players, while a lot of us are very concerned about next season and will be pooping our pants if Arsene doesn't sign anyone else before the season starts. :oops: :lol:

There are plenty more things that I could list on which there is general agreement, but the long and short of it is..... we've wasted a lot of our time over the minutia of this debate - time we will never, ever get back!! And I for one blame the on-line gooner!! :wink:

Do you think that between us we could afford to hire a lawyer on a No Win - No Fee basis, to sue them for being the cause of all this recent distress? :roll: :wink: :lol:

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Post by Belfast Boy »

Thanks for that Augie and respect to you too!
Isolated??? why do ya think I'm sittin here on a Sat nite??? I've lost all my friends too :lol:
I have said many times that we have to get the balance of the team right youth/experience, flair/steel, and that I didn't think that AW had finished spending yet which he confirmed today!
When he took over AW predicted that it would take about ten yrs to get an effective academy up and runnin and he now thinks that the academy is ready to bear fruit and if it is successful we can keep the blend of experience and youth going and it's also true that we are no longer as inexperienced as our youth would suggest and we have paid the price for that in the past 2 or 3 yrs!
Yes we've have earned a decent wad over the last decade but so have L'pool and they had to sell out as their debts were around the 100M mark, with no assets to speak of! The 5M net you refer to is regarding transfer fees only, and doesn't represent the true cost of runnin the club, we also had the second highest wage bill in the Prem as a cost for havin all those world class players at our club and then of course putting a bit of money in the piggy bank because solvency was key to getting the finance for the Grove project!
On the CL qualification front yeah we have flirted with fifth but hopefully that was the low point, I don't honestly think that any of the clubs below us can overtake us! and we made it with room to spare last season and I also think we had a bit in the tank if it had've been closer!
I too hope you're right about me bein right, only time will tell - I agree that he was not best pleased to see DD ousted, and we all wanna see him back, but I seriously doubt that it's enough for him to turn his back on the ten years he has put into the club just as it's coming to fruition!
Finally I hope I don't sound like a philosopher when I say, it's worth remembering that in all walks of life history proves that sometimes you have to take a couple of steps back in order to move forward!
Last edited by Belfast Boy on Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

lowerwest
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Summer spend.

Post by lowerwest »

Better news...need a few more in key areas. Winger and Up Top.

Belfast Boy
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Post by Belfast Boy »

Eboue Can't Defend wrote:You know what guys, we basically all agree on most things regarding this subject, with just a few minor differences.

We all agree Wenger is great and has done a superb job. No-one else could have achieved what Arsene has over the past decade, given the financial resources available to him. I also think that we're in agreement that in an ideal world, David Dein would come back to Arsenal. Yet, none of us think it should be as part of any Glazer-like takeover by Kroenke, where the club and the fans pay the ultimate price of the acquisition.

We also concur that ideally we could do with a couple more experienced players. The only real difference that I can discern is that Belfast Boy doesn't think there is any need to panic if we don't purchase the players, while a lot of us are very concerned about next season and will be pooping our pants if Arsene doesn't sign anyone else before the season starts. :oops: :lol:

There are plenty more things that I could list on which there is general agreement, but the long and short of it is..... we've wasted a lot of our time over the minutia of this debate - time we will never, ever get back!! And I for one blame the on-line gooner!! :wink:

Do you think that between us we could afford to hire a lawyer on a No Win - No Fee basis, to sue them for being the cause of all this recent distress? :roll: :wink: :lol:
Hi ECD I think that you pretty much got that in a nutshell, and I would ideally like to see a bit more cover or even a wonder signing which could well be on the cards cos as we all know Le Boss is stealth personified and loves all the cloak and dagger stuff!
But we also know he's no mug and we have to trust his judgement cos now that he's chalked up his ten, he's officially a veteran of this league and is well aware of it's demands, and having delivered 3 titles he's also aware of what it takes to be the best over an entire season!
On another issue I must apologise cos I didn't realise until I was doin a read back of this thread that you'd responded to one of my posts regarding the Bobby thing sayin that you had yet to hear a convincing argument regarding the AW's stance on our geriatrics :wink: so here goes -
Let me start by sayin as evidenced by my avatar and some of my previous posts that our brilliant No.7 never had a bigger fan than me, in the words of the Cesc song he could've shagged my missus anytime :D
Nobody ever said to Bob that he couldn't stay for another 2, 3 or even 4 years had he remained competitive, which would have made him 37 the same age as our beloved DB10 when he retired after being on a 1 yr rolling contract for 4 yrs!
Now that means of course that Bobby was 33 when he left us not exactly a spring chicken even by todays pro-standards of durability, and a player in his position at whatever club always cites that he needs the security of a longer contract and that, I think, cuts to the very heart of the matter!
You have to wonder why a player wants insurance especially as they are already extremely wealthy, would it be that he is afraid of getting a long term injury which is infinately more likely approaching his mid-30's!
So he like any other player must realise that the rules will not be broken for anybody regardless of their status, and altho it might be perceived as an ill-judged policy in this instance it will benefit the club in the long term, by standing his ground against such legends AW is sending out a message to every player who crosses our door - we are not BUPA!

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