Can you argue with a 4-0 away win? (14/9)

Post by **gooner.ed** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:06 am

http://www.onlinegooner.com/editorial/index.php?id=122

usual thread starterâ€¦ Right, I havenâ€™t seen the highlights. So I donâ€™t know if the edit cut out some of the calamitous defending in the first half. So, please donâ€™t have a pop if you havenâ€™t seen the whole game. If you did, was I seeing things? I thought Arsenal looked like a boxer on the ropes for the majority of the first half, and was relieved as hell to see that second goal go in. Undoubtedly killed the game as a contest.

Post by **REB** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:36 am

we were very lucky to get a clean sheet and against a better team could and would have conceded more then a couple, but from a nicer point of view we won 4-0 away from home so lets take the positives more then the negatives

londonupnorth · Post by **londonupnorth** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:03 am

Six games played this season. 14 goals scored, 1 conceded. Feel they are doing pretty well at outscoring the opposition.

greg0 · Post by **greg0** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 5:29 pm

Kevin - great article. Denilson is NOT a defensive midfielder, in fact he can't tackle well at all. Also we did not win one header in defence all afternoon. If this team is going to win something, Arsene has to recognise that you don't win the EPL by playing 5 a side. Unfortunately the other teams are allowed to tackle and head the ball.....

Post by **QuartzGooner** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:36 pm

Excellent article.

Agree with much of what was said, and with Greg0 who says rightly that Denilson is not THE answer to a season long campaign as a defensive midfielder (he is more of an attacking all rounder in my eyes)....as good as 4-0 was we NEED to buy in that position.

As for Theo, it may be that he got a lecture from Wenger?

I reckon too that the people around him let him know he had to be more assertive and pro active after a lacklustre start to the season.

I have a complimentary theory though.

Look at how Theo plays.

The individual parts to his game are, and have been for a while, pretty good.

It is not as if he is lacking in any particular skill, except until of late his final ball.

Yet he never seemed to put all the different parts together.

He can run, he can run with the ball, he can spin off other players in a way that Eto'o does, he can shoot on instinct, he can track back and tackle well for one of slight to medium build, and he gets up and gets on with it when tackled.

Sometimes it just takes a while for things to "Click".

A bit like learning to drive.

You learn a bit each lesson, then one day you get in the car and it all comes together.

There is a science to this too.

When I have done Martial arts, we were told of a thing called "Muscle Memory".

You learn a new move or pattern of moves, and you do ok at first, but you have not got it spot on.

The next week's lesson you might do a bit better, but you still are not at the proper standard.

Yet rather than get a bit better each week, it seems that there is one week where you make a sudden jump in standard, and suddenly you have got a move spot on.

Scientifically I am told that you are forging nerve pathways in the brain and in the muscles of the body that relate to learning that move.

They take a while to grow...sometimes they improve a little bit by bit but usually it is not until they are fully formed that the real improvement in performance comes.

Similar with Theo I think.

The parts have come together, and he has gained an understanding of how the game is played at high level.

He does better as a result the confidence goes up, and this in turn improves his performance more.

gunnerhead · Post by **gunnerhead** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:52 pm

Good article but I disagree about Capello's influence on Theo. He gets him for one game and all of a sudden Theo realises what he's been doing wrong?

Theo's been under Arsene's wings for a fair number of years now. He did well to ease him into the system as opposed to throwing him into the World Cup squad and then not even playing him. Granted Capello didn't do that but you know what I mean.

Theo showed signs of what he was capable of doing towards the end of last season and before this season started, Arsene publicly challenged Theo to get his game going.

Capello would never have worked with Theo if it weren't for Arsene. I think you got that part the other way round in article.

androyd · Post by **androyd** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:52 am

As I said a couple of weeks ago, Bolton away will be more of a test than Blackburn who do not seem to have the steel they had last year. Lets judge them after the trek to Kiev and then Bolton. I agree we looked shaky defensively especially first half and I am not in love with the Gallas/Toure partnership unlike Arsene.

gunnerhead · Post by **gunnerhead** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:00 am

Do you think Bolton is as much of a threat post-Allardyce? Blackburn looked nothing like the Blackburn of last season.

I think we'll see more of the same on Saturday especially if we rest key players for Kiev.

We're good enough to see the 'big three' as real tests. Not Bolton.

Sammy Mooner · Post by **Sammy Mooner** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:43 am

O.K. So Blackburn were not a great threat but wasn't that because we didn't let them have the ball for most of the game? The bottom line is we won 4-0 away - some teams can't even do that against Andorra!

I arrived too late at the pub to see the entire game so won't comment on our early defending except to say good defences play as a unit and ours doesn't. It should also be noted that it is the whole team's job to defend, just as it is the whole team's job to attack. We can't always just blame certain individuals within the back four every time.

And in defence of Denilson - check this interesting bit of reading out:
Top number of total passes in the Premiership
Deco 317 passes 82.6% accurate
Lampard 279 84.9%
Denilson 270 83.7%
Alonso 249 80.3%

So lets not knock the kid please just because he's not kicking people up in the air or winning every header.

proudtosaythatname · Post by **proudtosaythatname** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:50 pm

What has happened to our respected and admired Ed? He's become soooo negative. Come on Kev, we won 4-0; yeah, some more crass defending at times but ......give the guys a break and save the criticism for the 4-0 defeats!

gunnerhead · Post by **gunnerhead** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:44 am

If it weren't for the Fulham game, Denilson's percentage would've probably been in the 90's. He's a completely different player when he's with Fabregas.

6OONER PETE · Post by **6OONER PETE** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:00 pm

I agree with the article and Blackburn's finishing was poor.

However Arsenal's possession play was a pleasure to watch. For the second goal we put 27 or 28 passes together without Blackburn getting a touch (surely some sort of record and a contender for one of the goals of the season) and 17 or 18 for the fourth.Amazing stuff.

Just hope we can do similar against tougher opposition!

barnetgooner · Post by **barnetgooner** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:45 pm

About Theo (I was talking about him in the "has Wenger lost the plot?" thread)... In the previous article you said you thought he was not up to much use that opinion to criticise Wenger for buying and selecting him. Theo's subsequent performances in Zagreb and Blackburn then showed that you were (probably) wrong in that judgement, so I was expecting you to say something along the lines of "maybe I should have more faith in Wenger's signings and judgement of players".
Instead, you're using the evidence of those performances to further criticise Wenger for "leaving his players to work it out for themselves", saying that a week with Fabio Capello has miraculously turned a pup into a world-beater! Unbelievable!

Now, I'm sure that some time with a world-class coach like Capello helped Theo and maybe he saw a way to better use him tactically or positionally but of all the reasons you can criticise Arsene, saying that he has an inability to develop players, particularly when we're talking about youngster like Theo, is pretty absurd. Thierry Henry went from being an outcast failed winger to a world-class striker by "working it out for himself" did he!?

Sammy Mooner · Post by **Sammy Mooner** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:36 pm

gunnerhead wrote

If it weren't for the Fulham game, Denilson's percentage would've probably been in the 90's. He's a completely different player when he's with Fabregas.

Have to say I think most players in world football would look better playing alongside Fabregas - just as many players looked a whole lot better playing alongside Vieira. Adebayor also owes a lot to Fabregas - all you have to do for fab to find you is make the right run. And now that Theo is beginning to buzz I'm sure Fab will start picking his runs out as well.

Post by **gooner.ed** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:18 am

barnetgooner wrote:About Theo (I was talking about him in the "has Wenger lost the plot?" thread)... In the previous article you said you thought he was not up to much use that opinion to criticise Wenger for buying and selecting him. Theo's subsequent performances in Zagreb and Blackburn then showed that you were (probably) wrong in that judgement, so I was expecting you to say something along the lines of "maybe I should have more faith in Wenger's signings and judgement of players".
Instead, you're using the evidence of those performances to further criticise Wenger for "leaving his players to work it out for themselves", saying that a week with Fabio Capello has miraculously turned a pup into a world-beater! Unbelievable!

Now, I'm sure that some time with a world-class coach like Capello helped Theo and maybe he saw a way to better use him tactically or positionally but of all the reasons you can criticise Arsene, saying that he has an inability to develop players, particularly when we're talking about youngster like Theo, is pretty absurd. Thierry Henry went from being an outcast failed winger to a world-class striker by "working it out for himself" did he!?

it's well known that wenger doesn't coach as such. he puts on exercises that allow the players to develop particular skills and play with each other in a particular way. in this respect, he develops players who have a raw talent that he can spot can be harnessed for the good of arsenal. i am not overall a wenger critic, but i express opinions on things i don't think he gets right. walcott was bought in january 2006. over two and a half years later, he is finally starting to look like the player that we had hoped for. why has it taken so long? he's had enough chances. i think a lot of it is down to a week with a different coach. if you want some real wenger haters, look elsewhere on this forum. i am a fan, but not blind to his weaknesses.

how did he do with francis jeffers for example, who cost not much less than theo seven years back?