Scouse

[Radford149]

sorry but davies what i would want any Arsenal player to do.

[SPUDMASHER]

I am sorry DB10 but I completely disagree!

It was a hard but fair challene that won the ball cleanly. Sure his folow through caught Gael but when have you ever gone into a tackle 100% and worried about what happens after you win the ball?

I take your point, but IMHO Davies went into do Clichy. I love the physical element of footy and think the game would die without it. But there is a diference between a good fair strong tackle and going in to do someone.

We'll have to agree to disagree (I'm off to watch Charlie Boorman) safe in the knowledge that I'm right...

Don't listen to Gus DB10. I agree with you. I think he did try to do him. Anyway, Gus looks too much like Shane Ritchie to be taken seriously

[gus ceasar is a legend]

Taken seriously?

Says the The Rhinestone Cowboy with his blacked out cock!

[charliegeorgewhocanhitem]

Some good points made for both arguemnts here but to my eyes Davies went in to hurt Clichy and it's not the first time we've had a problem with that *word censored* either. My main point here was pointing out the hypocricy of Lawrenson et al who would be slagging any Arsenal player for making excacty the same challenge on Gerrard, Rooney, Ronaldo or any other Sky/Setanta/media favourite. It's been tha same for fuckin years now, ok to do it to an Arsenal player but if we give some back then it's the end of the world

[26may1989]

I am sorry DB10 but I completely disagree!

It was a hard but fair challene that won the ball cleanly. Sure his folow through caught Gael but when have you ever gone into a tackle 100% and worried about what happens after you win the ball?

I take your point, but IMHO Davies went into do Clichy. I love the physical element of footy and think the game would die without it. But there is a diference between a good fair strong tackle and going in to do someone.

We'll have to agree to disagree (I'm off to watch Charlie Boorman) safe in the knowledge that I'm right...

Don't listen to Gus DB10. I agree with you. I think he did try to do him. Anyway, Gus looks too much like Shane Ritchie to be taken seriously

I agree with DB10. What was once a legitimate tactic is now a sending-off offence. The rules were changed years ago: a challenge which endangers the safety of an opponent must be treated as serious foul play, and therefore a red card. The fact that Davies went for or got the ball is irrelevant. As DB10 says, Davies went through Clichy (as he must have known he would), and even though the challenge wasn't as bad as Taylor's in February, that is endangering a player's safety and he should have been sent off.

Lawrenson might not like it, or be too stupid to understand that the game he played no longer exists, but the whole point of the change in rules was to get rid of challenges like Davies'. It's a shame our referees are too spineless to enforce the rules.

[QuartzGooner]

Two arguments here, both well put.

I have played football for years, but not to the same standard or frequency as DB10.

I have reconsidered my point of view after watching it a few more times, and reading DB10's argument.

I think the key thing is that Davies' trailing leg was on the same side as Clichy...if he had gone in with his left leg then his trailing leg and the rest of Davies body would have been on the opposite side from Clichy.

I have watched the tackle a lot of times, and my feeling is that Davies went for the ball, but did so not particularly caring what the result of his tackle would be on Clichy.

It was careless and unprofessional, but it was not definite that Davies wanted to hurt Clichy, just that he was not bothered if he did either.


As such it should have been a red card for Davies.

I do not agree with those who want to see Arsenal players do the same.

The two best tacklers I have seen in person at Arsenal were Tony Adams and Patrick Vieira. Both were big guys, but the key thing is they were almost surgical in their technique.

Adams by the end of his career was an extraordinary tackler, he would take the ball out from a player's feet with the player barely having realised how it was done, such was the grace with which he tackled.

That is what I want to see, not tackles such as Davies did.

[gus ceasar is a legend]

This arguement only exists due to the reputation of the player carrying out the tackle. If Michael Owen had done the same sodd all would have been said.

I am not saying Davies's tackle was a great one but it wasn't a horror show either. Trailing legs catch people all the time as the player making the tackle is rightfully watching the ball and does not know what way the player being tackled will move.

To my mind this was nothing more than a collision. There was far worse tackles dished out to Theo in Kiev last week and I don't remember a huge debates about them.....maybe because we haven't got a predetermined view of the players concerned?

One final point on this, how many of you were up in arms when Cesc was kicking lumps out of Cashley last year? Sure the *word censored* deserves it but you can't moralise about Davies if you are going to cheer Cesc at the same time!

[androyd]

I am not saying Davies's tackle was a great one but it wasn't a horror show either. Trailing legs catch people all the time as the player making the tackle is rightfully watching the ball and does not know what way the player being tackled will move.
To my mind this was nothing more than a collision. There was far worse tackles dished out to Theo in Kiev last week and I don't remember a huge debates about them.....maybe because we haven't got a predetermined view of the players concerned?

What people have to understand is that there is now a different emphasis on tackling and in fact a change in the laws of the game. About 8 years ago I qualified as a referee and as the law stood then the tackle by Davies would have been deemed fair because he played the ball before making contact with the player. However over the last few years advice to refs has changed and there has been a slight change to the law that means if a tackle is deemed to be reckless or dangerous in the opinion of the ref regardless of whether the ball was played first then a player can be sent off. Clearly the ref didn't think that tackle was reckless or dangerous which given the fact the player was carried off seems peverse.

On the issue of the 'trailing leg' - it is something that refs are taught to look for because it is a 'professional's' foul because it is thought that professional players absolutely know what they are doing with their trailing leg and when it is used to follow through on a player or to 'hook' a player it usually results in a yellow card when spotted, with fans and pundits who have only followed the ball saying 'whats wrong with that?'
An example of hooking was Eboue's penalty 'dive' where the defenders foot did tap Eboue's, whether that was genuinely enough to bring Eboue down I personally doubt but in the moment that was what the ref saw and why he gave a penalty. Enough doubt was in his mind that he didn't give a booking for it probably when he realised who had fallen over!
Clearly the ref booked Davies for his use of the trailing leg which to me was the minimum punishment.
On Theo's treatment in Kiev - the full back should have had two yellows at least but that ref was probably concerned about his own safety and so was very lenient to Kiev all night - I don't think you can judge what a european ref would do based on that performance.

[DB10GOONER]

Two arguments here, both well put.

I have played football for years, but not to the same standard or frequency as DB10.

It's mostly frequency Quartz. The standard ain't that high TBH. Most players that can really play in Ireland end up in the lower leagues in England. Don't get me wrong - I can deffo play, but probably not to the standard you'd imagine...

I'm in the over 35's now in the Sunday league but play a mixed (NOT mixed sex - mixed age group) indoors game with an age range from 20 to 50 (!) that is absolute quality. Some really skilfull players and good competitive edge.

Speaking of footy (Jaysus!! ) - wasn't Smoothie supposed to be organising a game for the Gooner regulars or something?? I'd love a run in that...

[RossieGooner]

Speaking of footy (Jaysus!! ) - wasn't Smoothie supposed to be organising a game for the Gooner regulars or something?? I'd love a run in that...

That would be a bit of craic - would be up for that ..... where was it supposed to happen ??

[gus ceasar is a legend]

In light of Kevin Nolan's comments that he told J Lloyd Samuel to kick Theo, I retract any defence I put up for these cheating northern *word censored* in this thread!

[DB10GOONER]

In light of Kevin Nolan's comments that he told J Lloyd Samuel to kick Theo, I retract any defence I put up for these cheating northern c**ts in this thread!

What a lowlife Nolan is.

[DB10GOONER]

Speaking of footy (Jaysus!! ) - wasn't Smoothie supposed to be organising a game for the Gooner regulars or something?? I'd love a run in that...

That would be a bit of craic - would be up for that ..... where was it supposed to happen ??

It was supposed to be organised for the end of last season, Rossie, somewhere in London, at one of the all weather pitches, possibly against a charity team (maybe even the Arsenal charity XI!!! ).

I seriously would have flown over (and still will, with a couple weeks notice) to play in the game - LyingAir is still piss cheap. Haven't heard any more about it but a good few lads expressed an interest at the time.

[REB]

if nolan said that then he is a *word censored* , but i stand by my post that football is not strictly come dancing and is a mans game and as long as you don't intentionally go into hurt someone then a hard tackle is fair. and i thought davies didnt go into break gaels leg and was a hard but fair tackle, i just wish some of our players could do the same instead of standing back,

[gus ceasar is a legend]

To be fair The Sun has sensationalised it a bit but there was no need for the toe rag to say it,

I do agree with Rebel though that it is a contact sport, collisions happen and sometimes they hurt!