http://www.onlinegooner.com/exclusive/index.php?id=794
usual thread starter… fair play to redaction – they do a great job. But I have read many times on this forum about fans elsewhere being prevented from giving their all by stewards. The first change has to come from the club in my view, so that people feel free to sing without the risk of getting thrown out for disturbing other fans!
Arsene Wenger’s ‘Prawn Sandwich’ moment! (24/10)
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I Hate Hleb
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- Location: London
I think Gus summed things up perfectly in another post on the General Chat section:
Can you tell me exactly what RedAction do these days to help encourage atmosphere in the ground (it used to be their main objective)?
Look at there current home page.........
http://www.redaction.org.uk/front.html
Why in the list of contents on the left does The Rocket come above chants? Strange for an organisation whose mandate was to bring atmosphere back to the ground!
How many times on the front page do they need to mention The Rocket? What appears to you to be the most important thing? Hmmm. dunno but I would say, you guessed it...........The Rocket!
Why is there no mention of an iniative to create more atmosphere at the ground but they trumpet an Arsenal version of the Yellow Pages? Just what we need! When my water tank splits I only want a Gooner to repair it and I don't mind if I flood my house waiting for one to turn up! Very handy!
Look at the acheivements, even this now tells us the knees up is held in The Rocket! Acheived what? Better bar takings?
Nobody is knocking the work they do for charity etc and it is to be applauded but let's be honest, this has sod all to do with bringing atmosphere to the ground.
Look at the chants section! Hardly new stuff is it! Why has nobody from RedAction visitied our chants thread to take across the new ideas and to see if they can take off? Why have they not got a space where you can submit new songs?
Look at the RedActions statement on why they exist...........
"REDaction is a group of match going fans who have united with the intention of bringing even more fun and noise to match days. It’s an open forum which anyone can join to contribute to or suggest ideas for adding vibrancy to the average home match experience. We’re talking about new ideas and suggestions for changing the way things are done.
The main core of REDaction comprises twelve fans from other organisations and several who were there at the start of it all. We were originally formed when the club wanted a group of fans to form and suggest ideas for Highbury events but we’ve gone on to do so much since which you can find more about here.
We’ve worked to build a fantastic network in the Arsenal community and while we work closely with various facets of the club, we are very much independent and strike the balance to ensure fans are as happy with what we do as possible. We count Arsenal World, AWIMB, The Gooner, Ham & High, Islington Gazette, Arseblog. AISA and Arsenal Mania as much valued allies in our efforts and that list is growing all the time.
Our mission statement: "To bring Arsenal back to its faithful fans and buck the trend of growing indifference in English club football"
Simple really. Nobody can doubt football in this country has changed massively and we want to bring back an element of colour and eccentricity which has been slowly disappearing in the top flight."
Not one mention of promoting noise/atmosphere inside the ground! Very odd! I thought they would be telling us about getting behind the team and singing your heart out in support of Arsenal!
Also, "home match experience" Now where have I heard about the matchday experience before? Oh yes, Arsenal.com with every piece of promotion they push to plug selling over priced packages!
I haven't even got to the march yet which leaves The Rocket a whole fifteen minutes before kick off! What the fuck! Clever idea for a group who, for some reason, everyone believes are all about cranking up the volume inside the ground!
The truth is RedAction survive for the Rocket now, coincidently since they got a page on Arsenal.com's website and removed all the offensive stuff about AFC from their own!
Nobody should knock them for what they do but please let's all see sense and realise that they are not the saviours of atmosphere but rather a group of people who like to drink together, sing a few songs in their pub and raise some money for charity!
Lastly, it is not the RedAction section, it is blocks 5 and 6!
Personally I think it's a bit rich being told to support my club better by a group - supposedly formed to improve atmosphere - that can't be bothered to turn up until just before the game starts!!
As for the club, they are getting exactly what they deserve for planning the stadium around the needs of the few rather than the many. Then they have the cheek to complain about it!!
Can you tell me exactly what RedAction do these days to help encourage atmosphere in the ground (it used to be their main objective)?
Look at there current home page.........
http://www.redaction.org.uk/front.html
Why in the list of contents on the left does The Rocket come above chants? Strange for an organisation whose mandate was to bring atmosphere back to the ground!
How many times on the front page do they need to mention The Rocket? What appears to you to be the most important thing? Hmmm. dunno but I would say, you guessed it...........The Rocket!
Why is there no mention of an iniative to create more atmosphere at the ground but they trumpet an Arsenal version of the Yellow Pages? Just what we need! When my water tank splits I only want a Gooner to repair it and I don't mind if I flood my house waiting for one to turn up! Very handy!
Look at the acheivements, even this now tells us the knees up is held in The Rocket! Acheived what? Better bar takings?
Nobody is knocking the work they do for charity etc and it is to be applauded but let's be honest, this has sod all to do with bringing atmosphere to the ground.
Look at the chants section! Hardly new stuff is it! Why has nobody from RedAction visitied our chants thread to take across the new ideas and to see if they can take off? Why have they not got a space where you can submit new songs?
Look at the RedActions statement on why they exist...........
"REDaction is a group of match going fans who have united with the intention of bringing even more fun and noise to match days. It’s an open forum which anyone can join to contribute to or suggest ideas for adding vibrancy to the average home match experience. We’re talking about new ideas and suggestions for changing the way things are done.
The main core of REDaction comprises twelve fans from other organisations and several who were there at the start of it all. We were originally formed when the club wanted a group of fans to form and suggest ideas for Highbury events but we’ve gone on to do so much since which you can find more about here.
We’ve worked to build a fantastic network in the Arsenal community and while we work closely with various facets of the club, we are very much independent and strike the balance to ensure fans are as happy with what we do as possible. We count Arsenal World, AWIMB, The Gooner, Ham & High, Islington Gazette, Arseblog. AISA and Arsenal Mania as much valued allies in our efforts and that list is growing all the time.
Our mission statement: "To bring Arsenal back to its faithful fans and buck the trend of growing indifference in English club football"
Simple really. Nobody can doubt football in this country has changed massively and we want to bring back an element of colour and eccentricity which has been slowly disappearing in the top flight."
Not one mention of promoting noise/atmosphere inside the ground! Very odd! I thought they would be telling us about getting behind the team and singing your heart out in support of Arsenal!
Also, "home match experience" Now where have I heard about the matchday experience before? Oh yes, Arsenal.com with every piece of promotion they push to plug selling over priced packages!
I haven't even got to the march yet which leaves The Rocket a whole fifteen minutes before kick off! What the fuck! Clever idea for a group who, for some reason, everyone believes are all about cranking up the volume inside the ground!
The truth is RedAction survive for the Rocket now, coincidently since they got a page on Arsenal.com's website and removed all the offensive stuff about AFC from their own!
Nobody should knock them for what they do but please let's all see sense and realise that they are not the saviours of atmosphere but rather a group of people who like to drink together, sing a few songs in their pub and raise some money for charity!
Lastly, it is not the RedAction section, it is blocks 5 and 6!
Personally I think it's a bit rich being told to support my club better by a group - supposedly formed to improve atmosphere - that can't be bothered to turn up until just before the game starts!!
As for the club, they are getting exactly what they deserve for planning the stadium around the needs of the few rather than the many. Then they have the cheek to complain about it!!
I think a lot has got to do with the ban of flags around the ground and lack of discretion for some stewards at key moments when you want to stand and join in with cheering the boys on. We need to get behind them and the only way of doing this is to allow for us to have some flexibility with the flags/banners etc which will all add to the atmosphere-why can away fans show their flag over the tunnel and we cant? 
. Youngsters need to feel they are going to a football match and the opposition need to know they are coming to the home of football. We cant do much about the standing /safety issue but Football has always been about getting behind the team-lets do it starting with the match on wednesday........-
alanalansunderland
- Posts: 288
- Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:43 pm
Interesting stuff from I Hate Hleb and to be honest I haven't got the time to go through each of the many points individually.
Having said that all the points made will be looked at and REDaction will try where the comments are correct to change your perception in the months to come.
One point to make however is that if you really want to change the atmosphere why not get involved with REDaction and then I think you will probably find that we are not quite so far up the clubs backside as you seem to suggest.
Yes 'The March' does leave to late and if you had bothered to find out there are plans to bring it forward, but we are not confident that people will want to leave the pub earlier but we will try.
Oh and by the way sections 5 and 6 were officially advertised and are known as the REDsection.
Having said that all the points made will be looked at and REDaction will try where the comments are correct to change your perception in the months to come.
One point to make however is that if you really want to change the atmosphere why not get involved with REDaction and then I think you will probably find that we are not quite so far up the clubs backside as you seem to suggest.
Yes 'The March' does leave to late and if you had bothered to find out there are plans to bring it forward, but we are not confident that people will want to leave the pub earlier but we will try.
Oh and by the way sections 5 and 6 were officially advertised and are known as the REDsection.
i suggest you have a look here:alanalansunderland wrote:Having said that all the points made will be looked at and REDaction will try where the comments are correct to change your perception in the months to come
http://www.onlinegooner.com/phpbb2/view ... hp?t=10578
...for some further opinions, im sure the vast majority of us would appreciate such a change
redaction are so great then tell me why so many people mistrust them 
they were left bring in an anti usmanov banner by the club as a pr stunt in support of the currant board but if one of us try and hang a flag we cant, the rocket thing has been done to death in general chat on this forum so wont comment any more, just most people feel redaction are too far up the clubs arse to do anything constructive and dont bring anything to help the atmosphere except in the own little corner, and as for the singing, its not a race so slow down and sing the songs how they were meant to be sung
they were left bring in an anti usmanov banner by the club as a pr stunt in support of the currant board but if one of us try and hang a flag we cant, the rocket thing has been done to death in general chat on this forum so wont comment any more, just most people feel redaction are too far up the clubs arse to do anything constructive and dont bring anything to help the atmosphere except in the own little corner, and as for the singing, its not a race so slow down and sing the songs how they were meant to be sung
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gus ceasar is a legend
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- Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 12:42 pm
Haven't got the time or haven't got the answers to defend yourselves?alanalansunderland wrote:Interesting stuff from I Hate Hleb and to be honest I haven't got the time to go through each of the many points individually.
Having said that all the points made will be looked at and REDaction will try where the comments are correct to change your perception in the months to come.
One point to make however is that if you really want to change the atmosphere why not get involved with REDaction and then I think you will probably find that we are not quite so far up the clubs backside as you seem to suggest.
Yes 'The March' does leave to late and if you had bothered to find out there are plans to bring it forward, but we are not confident that people will want to leave the pub earlier but we will try.
Oh and by the way sections 5 and 6 were officially advertised and are known as the REDsection.
Erm..........didn't you tell me a couple of months ago that the march was already leaving earlier but now it is there are plans to make it leave earlier? So who are you to asked who is bothered as you have obviously done nothing despite promises!
Says something for your crowd when you admit yourself it will be hard to get them to leave the bar earlier to get them inside the ground supporting their team!
Bet you wish you hadn't said that now hey?
Oh and it is not the RedAction section! By no means are the majority of people in blocks 5 and 6 (that is the real name, find me a stadium plan that refers to them differently) anything to do with RedAction!
I am sorry but as a group you are full of your own piss and importance and acheive little if anything!
People gathered in a group to sing long before the birth or your "organisation" and they would again if you was to disappear!
Try doing something useful if you want peoples respect rather than sing alongs in your bar!
ONE FINAL EDIT..................
Here is the link to the thread where alansunderland tells me I am factually incorrect and that the march leaves half hour before kick off (not true) and that they will experimment with leaving The Rocket earlier very soon! Soon, you are still telling us there are plans to do it yet you made the statement it was happening soon at the beginning of September! It is now nearly November!
http://www.onlinegooner.com/phpbb2/view ... highlight=
Last edited by gus ceasar is a legend on Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:12 am, edited 3 times in total.
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gus ceasar is a legend
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- Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 12:42 pm
Re: Arsene Wenger’s ‘Prawn Sandwich’ moment! (24/10)
Gooner Ed...............what exactly do RedAction do "a great job" at?gooner.ed wrote:http://www.onlinegooner.com/exclusive/index.php?id=794
usual thread starter… fair play to redaction – they do a great job. But I have read many times on this forum about fans elsewhere being prevented from giving their all by stewards. The first change has to come from the club in my view, so that people feel free to sing without the risk of getting thrown out for disturbing other fans!
Sorry but I find that comment frankly bemusing when it comes to encouraging more noise inside the ground!
I also find it disappointing that something as well read as The Gooner is of the opinion that RedAction provide anything meaningful with regards to atmosphere INSIDE the stadium!
This place is getting laughable!
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Cus Geezer
- Posts: 1869
- Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:09 pm
I think there's going to be a problem with singing when the police or stewards can pull you over and interrogate you for merely swearing to yourself in a hardly shouting at the top of your voice type manner.
You can appreciate some level of control but the baby has been thrown out with the bathwater and I can't see a reversal of this regardless of what RedAction or whoever does.
If I can be a ponce and quote Emile Durkheim's view on deviance
"Imagine a society of saints, a perfect cloister of exemplary individuals. Crimes, properly so called will there be unknown; but faults which appear insignificant to the layman will create the same scandal that the ordinary offence does in ordinary conscienceness.
For the same reason, the perfect and upright man judges with a severity that the majority reserve for acts more truly in the nature of an offence"
We have the same situation here at football matches these days, particularly at the Grove.
No-one gets Chelsea smiled or bottles of piss thrown at them anymore, but were not satisfied with that and mere swearing or continual singing get the stewards and police in a huff and with it goes the atmosphere.
You can appreciate some level of control but the baby has been thrown out with the bathwater and I can't see a reversal of this regardless of what RedAction or whoever does.
If I can be a ponce and quote Emile Durkheim's view on deviance
"Imagine a society of saints, a perfect cloister of exemplary individuals. Crimes, properly so called will there be unknown; but faults which appear insignificant to the layman will create the same scandal that the ordinary offence does in ordinary conscienceness.
For the same reason, the perfect and upright man judges with a severity that the majority reserve for acts more truly in the nature of an offence"
We have the same situation here at football matches these days, particularly at the Grove.
No-one gets Chelsea smiled or bottles of piss thrown at them anymore, but were not satisfied with that and mere swearing or continual singing get the stewards and police in a huff and with it goes the atmosphere.
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StokeyGooner
- Posts: 151
- Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:55 pm
- Location: London
Never posted on here before but felt compelled to do so after reading this article.
I agree that the atmosphere at our place is non-existent at times (usually in the first half as well - wonder if this has anything to do with the number of games we concede goals first?), and that we are all responsible for making it better. However I don't think that our atmosphere is worse than any other Premiership ground in the country - and if it is, it's probably because we have become victim to the factors (pricing traditional Arsenal fans out, Corporate hospitatilty, Football tourists) that are affecting atmosphere at all the top clubs more quickly because of the type of football we play, and that we're in London.
I don't think this is what Wenger was neccesarily directing his comments at this week. There have been a few occaisions in the last year when Arsenal have been booed off the pitch at half time (Everton last week for example) which I personally find a great deal more embarassing than our apparent lack of atmosphere. To my mind anyone booing the current Arsenal team is a know-nothing JCL and they are the ones that should be getting ejected by the stewards!
I agree that the atmosphere at our place is non-existent at times (usually in the first half as well - wonder if this has anything to do with the number of games we concede goals first?), and that we are all responsible for making it better. However I don't think that our atmosphere is worse than any other Premiership ground in the country - and if it is, it's probably because we have become victim to the factors (pricing traditional Arsenal fans out, Corporate hospitatilty, Football tourists) that are affecting atmosphere at all the top clubs more quickly because of the type of football we play, and that we're in London.
I don't think this is what Wenger was neccesarily directing his comments at this week. There have been a few occaisions in the last year when Arsenal have been booed off the pitch at half time (Everton last week for example) which I personally find a great deal more embarassing than our apparent lack of atmosphere. To my mind anyone booing the current Arsenal team is a know-nothing JCL and they are the ones that should be getting ejected by the stewards!
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Cus Geezer
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I can remember the end of season lap of honour in 1992, we finished 4th and won nothing apart from Ian Wright's golden boot, yet there seemed to be a massive fervour about that and an interaction of joy between the players and fans. What sticks in my mind was Ian Wright and Kevin Campbell with their arms around each other chanting 'Arsenal! Arsenal!' along with the North Bank as if we'd won a title, yet this was a year when we were knocked out the cup by Wrexham!StokeyGooner wrote:There have been a few occaisions in the last year when Arsenal have been booed off the pitch at half time (Everton last week for example) which I personally find a great deal more embarassing than our apparent lack of atmosphere. To my mind anyone booing the current Arsenal team is a know-nothing JCL and they are the ones that should be getting ejected by the stewards!
People's attitudes have changed and they don't appreciate what's in front of them, they just enjoy the kudos of supporting a successful side and the world has ended if Arsenal don't win something, or heaven forfend lose a game.
This is largely because the composition of the crowd has changed to the vast quantity of Joe Post-90s, who can fuck off back to where they came from for all I care.
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gooner.ed
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Re: Arsene Wenger’s ‘Prawn Sandwich’ moment! (24/10)
gus ceasar is a legend wrote: Gooner Ed...............what exactly do RedAction do "a great job" at?
Sorry but I find that comment frankly bemusing when it comes to encouraging more noise inside the ground!
I also find it disappointing that something as well read as The Gooner is of the opinion that RedAction provide anything meaningful with regards to atmosphere INSIDE the stadium!
This place is getting laughable!
well, it was redaction who campaigned for the existence of the redsection. without that the atmosphere would be even worse. it is redaction who often get new songs going as they are often promoted in the rocket and picked up by rocket attendees who are in the redsection and go to away games. the scarves thing was a redaction initiative. these guys are at least trying to do something when they are in the ground, even if they aren't in the ground early enough for some.
on that basis i think they are doing a great job. without redaction there would be no redsection. without the redsection there would be as much atmosphere as the moon. it's not great at arsenal, but believe it or not it could be worse.
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QuartzGooner
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simonrolls
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block6
this is my first post on gooner fans forum - after hearing arsene's plea for support I fully agree with him on the whole...
i sit in block 6 lower - the corner opposite the aways fans - and i can honestly say that we never shut up! no matter what game it is everyone in our area of seating is singing and chanting and I have to say that it is fully encouraged by Redaction. They've given us scraves, updates, and from what I see their members are the ones who usually start the noise!!! dont get me wrong i dont sing to every song, shout at every away player but i do come out of there with a sore throat every game! The excuse that making every one sit down means no one can sing is rubbish - we sing sitting down but most of the time we are up on our feet excited about the mazey run we've just seen or the crunching kolo tackle - sorry mr steward.
It is sometimes strange when the team are playing well/not well and you look around and theres us lot screaming our heads off with support and the rest of the ground is sitting down. i understand that a lot of people are shy about singing but take a look at us lot singing and dancing in the gangway and hopefully you take heart from it and get behind the team (and dont thinnk that singing automatically means swearing - u can sing what you want without swearing just make some noise)!
"Who's that team they call the AARRRRRSSSEEENNNAALLLL..........."
i sit in block 6 lower - the corner opposite the aways fans - and i can honestly say that we never shut up! no matter what game it is everyone in our area of seating is singing and chanting and I have to say that it is fully encouraged by Redaction. They've given us scraves, updates, and from what I see their members are the ones who usually start the noise!!! dont get me wrong i dont sing to every song, shout at every away player but i do come out of there with a sore throat every game! The excuse that making every one sit down means no one can sing is rubbish - we sing sitting down but most of the time we are up on our feet excited about the mazey run we've just seen or the crunching kolo tackle - sorry mr steward.
It is sometimes strange when the team are playing well/not well and you look around and theres us lot screaming our heads off with support and the rest of the ground is sitting down. i understand that a lot of people are shy about singing but take a look at us lot singing and dancing in the gangway and hopefully you take heart from it and get behind the team (and dont thinnk that singing automatically means swearing - u can sing what you want without swearing just make some noise)!
"Who's that team they call the AARRRRRSSSEEENNNAALLLL..........."
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StokeyGooner
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- Location: London
[quote="Cus Geezer"]
People's attitudes have changed and they don't appreciate what's in front of them, they just enjoy the kudos of supporting a successful side and the world has ended if Arsenal don't win something, or heaven forfend lose a game.
quote]
Very true, and I think this is where Wenger was directing his comments more than the lack of atmosphere - which I think is a problem for all Premiership clubs.
People that boo when we are not winning, or start slagging Wenger when we haven't won a trophy for three years need to be told that even though we're a big club with a big history it doesn't mean we're entitled to win trophies every year.
I could understand the negativity if we weren't playing well or were not even challenging for major honours, but we are! And on top of that we play football that is the envy of most of Europe
I suppose in a way Wenger is paying for his (and maybe George Graham's) years of success!
People's attitudes have changed and they don't appreciate what's in front of them, they just enjoy the kudos of supporting a successful side and the world has ended if Arsenal don't win something, or heaven forfend lose a game.
quote]
Very true, and I think this is where Wenger was directing his comments more than the lack of atmosphere - which I think is a problem for all Premiership clubs.
People that boo when we are not winning, or start slagging Wenger when we haven't won a trophy for three years need to be told that even though we're a big club with a big history it doesn't mean we're entitled to win trophies every year.
I could understand the negativity if we weren't playing well or were not even challenging for major honours, but we are! And on top of that we play football that is the envy of most of Europe
I suppose in a way Wenger is paying for his (and maybe George Graham's) years of success!
