I for one have been very critical of what happened the other night. However with tomorrows trip to the Britannia getting ever closer things have to change. I unfortunately can't make the game, but i urge all of you that are, to get right behind the team. If we can bounce back with a thumping win against Tony Pullis' men, confidence might be restored and we can put wednesday night behind us. Sing up for the lads tomorrow, it WILL help.
Cheers
Stoke- Get behind the team
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rodders999
- Posts: 22648
- Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:59 pm
- Location: Diamond Club
Personally speaking, I’m gutted about the result, but lets put things into perspective. It will be a lesson learned, and I would doubt that the players will make the same mistakes twice. As for Adebayor having the sheer nerve to gob off about his team mates needing to have the killer instinct to be champions, watching the match, he should’ve capitalised several times, most notably from the cross that evaded the defender and he hopelessly put wide, which is story of his season. His head is clearly still not in the game, as he has played in a woefully disinterested fashion all season so far. We should’ve killed that game off, and there are definite things to be looked at, but its time for everyone to take a step back. Remember the old days where we were mid-table, and stop calling for Wenger to sacked (who would replace him), criticising his tactics, demanding big money signings, and generally being moany fans. Adebayor needs to work on his shooting after his pay increase, and sort his head out. Stop being a negative influence. Arsenal will bounce back. Get behind the team.
Final point, one thing that Wenger needs to do … stop the players from talking to the press. If what was reported was true, Fabregas, Adebayors, Gallas’ comments, they just helped fire spurs and other teams up. Please keep your mouths shut, let the manager talk to the media, and focus on playing!! We need to settle. The media is not their friend, it is destructive and manipulative, and doesn’t help the unity of our side.
Final point, one thing that Wenger needs to do … stop the players from talking to the press. If what was reported was true, Fabregas, Adebayors, Gallas’ comments, they just helped fire spurs and other teams up. Please keep your mouths shut, let the manager talk to the media, and focus on playing!! We need to settle. The media is not their friend, it is destructive and manipulative, and doesn’t help the unity of our side.
For me our problems started when we started subbing players. 2 goals up against Stoke, sub players. 2 goals up in a North London derby against a team fighting for their lives with a new manager? Don’t sub the players.
Its not rocket science, yet Wenger always hovers his finger over the substitue self destruct button around 70 minutes.
Walcott coming off for Eboue was an awful decision. Eboue has played well and is much improved but he still loses the ball far too easily. Walcotts not perfect and lost the ball himself a fair few times, but when he got it he forced Sp*rs back and made them forget about attacking for a few minutes. No one is scared of Eboue.
Still, according to the papers today the squad had a massive argument - and I’m actually glad to see passion. People arguing shows they were bothered and upset and hopefully they’ll be galvanised.
I’m going to avoid the results and sit through match of the day on saturday - try and inject some excitment back into a still young season.
Oh and the good news, for all of the miserable naysayers, is that I think Wenger may have realised he needs to make a purchase or two in the new year and whilst I don’t believe its an absolute must it will be beneficial if he does.
Its not rocket science, yet Wenger always hovers his finger over the substitue self destruct button around 70 minutes.
Walcott coming off for Eboue was an awful decision. Eboue has played well and is much improved but he still loses the ball far too easily. Walcotts not perfect and lost the ball himself a fair few times, but when he got it he forced Sp*rs back and made them forget about attacking for a few minutes. No one is scared of Eboue.
Still, according to the papers today the squad had a massive argument - and I’m actually glad to see passion. People arguing shows they were bothered and upset and hopefully they’ll be galvanised.
I’m going to avoid the results and sit through match of the day on saturday - try and inject some excitment back into a still young season.
Oh and the good news, for all of the miserable naysayers, is that I think Wenger may have realised he needs to make a purchase or two in the new year and whilst I don’t believe its an absolute must it will be beneficial if he does.
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greatgooner
- Posts: 2050
- Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:06 pm
- Location: Hanging from a Noose
how many times have we said thatsunnyp wrote:Personally speaking, I’m gutted about the result, but lets put things into perspective. It will be a lesson learned, and I would doubt that the players will make the same mistakes twice. As for Adebayor having the sheer nerve to gob off about his team mates needing to have the killer instinct to be champions, watching the match, he should’ve capitalised several times, most notably from the cross that evaded the defender and he hopelessly put wide, which is story of his season. His head is clearly still not in the game, as he has played in a woefully disinterested fashion all season so far. We should’ve killed that game off, and there are definite things to be looked at, but its time for everyone to take a step back. Remember the old days where we were mid-table, and stop calling for Wenger to sacked (who would replace him), criticising his tactics, demanding big money signings, and generally being moany fans. Adebayor needs to work on his shooting after his pay increase, and sort his head out. Stop being a negative influence. Arsenal will bounce back. Get behind the team.
Final point, one thing that Wenger needs to do … stop the players from talking to the press. If what was reported was true, Fabregas, Adebayors, Gallas’ comments, they just helped fire spurs and other teams up. Please keep your mouths shut, let the manager talk to the media, and focus on playing!! We need to settle. The media is not their friend, it is destructive and manipulative, and doesn’t help the unity of our side.
Correctrilub wrote:For me our problems started when we started subbing players. 2 goals up against Stoke, sub players. 2 goals up in a North London derby against a team fighting for their lives with a new manager? Don’t sub the players.
Its not rocket science, yet Wenger always hovers his finger over the substitue self destruct button around 70 minutes.
How many times over his 12 years in charge has he made tactical changes at half time when things are not going right.He seems to have this things about bring a sub on not before the 70th min mark
The craziest substitution the other night was to bring RVP off and replace him with Diaby why didnt he bring on Bendtner or Vela instead?
Re: Stoke- Get behind the team
To be fair, Lincs, I'm sure we'll be getting right behind our team at Stoke.lincs123 wrote:I for one have been very critical of what happened the other night. However with tomorrows trip to the Britannia getting ever closer things have to change. I unfortunately can't make the game, but i urge all of you that are, to get right behind the team. If we can bounce back with a thumping win against Tony Pullis' men, confidence might be restored and we can put wednesday night behind us. Sing up for the lads tomorrow, it WILL help.
Cheers
Not that it makes a blind bit of difference to those spineless bottlers, but we'll sing loud and proud - as always - for the good name of Arsenal, and not those who happen to be representing us at this moment in time.. as I feel about as close to our current shower, as I do to a tribal community in the Amazon rainforest.
Arghh... I'm sure I'll feel differently tomorrow
fter Arsenal contrived to snatch a draw from the jaws of victory against Spurs on Wednesday, Gunners fans are left facing the fact that their team is still a work in progress and some way short of the finished article.
To be leading 4-2 with a minute of normal time to go, and yet somehow finish with one point instead of three, betrayed sloppiness or cockiness, ignorance or arrogance, depending on your point of view. Some have said it was unforgiveable; others unprofessional. Either way, dropping those two points must have felt like a defeat and was a further blow to Arsenal's already dented title-winning chances, particularly as Liverpool, Chelsea, Manchester United and Aston Villa all won.
Having produced a resilient and disciplined performance at West Ham on Sunday to keep a clean-sheet and secure a 2-0 victory, it was certainly cavalier if not reckless to squander a two-goal margin twice in one match while conceding four goals. It is hard to imagine Liverpool, Chelsea or United being so carelessly generous; they are more ruthless, and the winning mentality seems to be more deeply ingrained. But Arsenal have a bit of form in this regard, the most notorious recent example being at Birmingham last February when they also let slip two points by conceding a last-ditch equaliser to opponents whom they had outplayed in terms of football, but not fully matched for spirit and concentration. They had last season's Champions League quarter-final against Liverpool in the bag, too, when Emmanuel Adebayor scored to make it 2-2 on the night, 3-3 on aggregate, and put the Gunners ahead on away goals with six minutes to go. But they conceded twice in those six minutes. Back in the Premier League, they took the lead in but lost those two crucial encounters at Chelsea and Manchester United, and did the same against Hull at the Emirates in September.
Arsene Wenger admitted after the Spurs game that he was angry about what had happened in those fateful closing minutes. Few Arsenal fans will have been any less incensed - and many of them have been directing their anger at the Frenchman himself. Wenger said he was pleased with the overall performance of his team and felt Arsenal were a couple of levels better than Spurs in terms of quality. But he was annoyed about the naivety and lack of maturity shown by his side, and insisted they had been caught out trying to protect the lead instead of going for the jugular by adding further goals when the game was there for the taking.
"We were too cautious rather than scoring number five or six." said Wenger. "The right pass would have seen us score.
"The maturity problem will improve with intelligence. They will learn from their mistakes."
While many Arsenal fans are asking, "When?" the question remains: if he wanted the team to keep seeking goals and build an unassailable margin, why take off three attacking players - Theo Walcott, Robin van Persie and Samir Nasri - who had consistently caused Spurs problems - and replace them with more defensive players - Emmanuel Eboue, Abou Diaby and Alex Song? Those substitutions have been much criticised by disgruntled Arsenal fans. Of course, had the team seen out those last few minutes without conceding twice more, the changes would not have been remarked upon and Wenger's Arsenal would have been praised for bouncing back from the shock of
conceding ex-Gunner David Bentley's goal-of-the-season contender to score four of their own and win 4-2. Such is the fineness of the line that divides success from failure; heroes from villains.
However, there is another issue here, and it is a bit of a paradox. Wenger has said the team were too cautious in those latter stages and, despite his substitutions, should have pressed for more goals. Many observers felt that it was precisely because they were still going forward, still looking for the killer pass, that they left themselves exposed to Tottenham counter-attacks and paid the price. The accepted tactical wisdom in those situations is that you retain possession of the ball - by taking it into the opposition's corner, ideally, and let the clock run down. It used to be called time-wasting but is an effective way to preserve a lead with the seconds ticking away.
That Arsenal didn't do this - indeed, that they are clearly encouraged not to do it - underlines a key point of difference between themselves and their main rivals; between their manager's philosophy and that of his adversaries. Wenger's belief in and pursuit of the beautiful attacking game is admirable and produces highly entertaining football. But adherence to purity over pragmatism in all situations is taking principle to the edge of self-indulgence and risks negating what should be every team's primary objective: to win the match.
The perception of Arsenal's fluent, passing football as a thing of beauty is all very well, but it needs to be balanced with the knowledge of how to win matches, to close out games from winning positions.
In the hours since the ecstatic Spurs players celebrated their dramatic draw on the Emirates turf with such unbounded joy and relief, Harry Redknapp has been elevated to magician status and a lot of Arsenal fans have trained their critical guns on the Frenchman who has done so much to transform their club in so many positive ways.
Some have asked how much longer the Gunners' boss will cite a "lack of maturity" while steadfastly refusing to invest in that commodity in the transfer market. Yes, his players are gaining experience with every match, but that nous seemed to go AWOL in a couple of crazy minutes on Wednesday.
Others have queried not so much the personnel who were changed with those substitutions, but the wisdom in making any changes at all. After all, sending on three substitutes added at least another 90 seconds to the game when the target at that stage was to get to the final whistle as quickly as possible, with the lead intact.
And perhaps the most damning criticism I've heard levelled at The Professor since Wednesday is that he is following a different agenda from that being pursued by the club in general and the fans in particular. According to this train of thought, Wenger's desire to embellish his own reputation as the man who can consistently turn unpolished pebbles into glittering gems is getting in the way of the pursuit of silverware.
The consequence of this obsession with player development, it is argued, is that Arsenal's ambitions have become more limited, shifting from winning the title at all costs to ensuring a top-four finish and another Champions League campaign.
Personally, I find it difficult to buy into this point of view. Wenger's reputation as a masterful, possibly unrivalled spotter of raw talent and potential with the ability to hone it into highly valued and marketable players is guaranteed, even if he never nurtures another Vieira, Henry, Fabregas or Clichy.
But he should know better than most that a manager is ultimately judged by the number of trophies on his CV. He has proved himself to be a formidable winner of trophies before at Arsenal, and I would imagine he is desperate to re-assert his credentials in that regard by leading Arsenal to more silverware - knowing that the true currency of success for any English club is the Premier League title, followed by the Champions League.
The point is not so much whether he wants another title; of course he does. It is how he goes about achieving it. And few would disagree after some of this season's performances (against Fulham, Hull, Sunderland and, for the last few minutes, Spurs) that the lack of an experienced, older head in midfield to provide genuine leadership has proved costly. Wenger famously cites his team's 'mental strength' in the majority of his interviews; but that is precisely where the team are still deficient on occasions.
The departure of Mathieu Flamini is proving to be more of a problem than expected, and for two reasons. Firstly, while AC Milan's summer recruit was not so good as to be irreplaceable, the hard graft and running that he supplied has not been adequately replaced. Secondly and particularly worryingly, that absence of sweat in the midfield engine-room has clearly affected Cesc Fabregas. He has not reproduced last season's form as yet, has admitted to missing Flamini's contribution (and Alexander Hleb's), and has become somewhat more equivocal about his future according to the quotes attributed to him. In the modern climate, no player's loyalty can be taken for granted, but the best way to keep the best players is to ensure they are part of a winning team.
And it must also be acknowledged that a winning mentality is one that is focused and disciplined. Ahead of the Spurs game, the reported pre-match comments of one or two Arsenal players - notably Fabregas and Adebayor - betrayed a lack of focus. To dismiss Tottenham's chances in print and sound-bites bordered on arrogance, hinted at a degree of complacency ("We'll win no matter what") and can have only helped motivate the opposition. Playing to the gallery may elicit a cheap laugh, but there is no room for disrespect in professional sport: it will almost always come back and bite you. Perhaps Wenger should warn his players to be more circumspect with their public utterances from now on.
In the event, the Spurs players did themselves and their supporters proud with a battling display that rewarded them with what had seemed an impossible point - even to the many Tottenham fans who left early in resigned despair and missed the astonishing denouement. They punished Arsenal's complacency with determination and clinical finishing that bridged the gap in class. The remarkable comeback propelled the 'Redknapp effect' to centre-stage, though as Wenger correctly noted, Harry would not have been a factor had Arsenal not shot themselves in the foot.
At the end of the proverbial day Wednesday's North London derby was a fabulous football match, and it would be churlish to carp about the understandable delight of a team on the bottom earning a remarkable point against one of the Big Four. But as always it is important keep a sense of perspective. That game is gone and no-one at the Emirates can do anything about it now. The most important thing now is the next match. For Arsenal that is away to Stoke City. Wenger said the players were very deflated after Wednesday's extraordinary events, and it is his task to lift their spirits and ensure they are fully fired up for Saturday and utterly determined to nail the three points at the Britannia Stadium.
It won't be easy: Stoke are as direct as they come - a physically powerful side who rely heavily on the tactic of the long-throw as a potent attacking weapon. It will be an uncomfortable afternoon for the Arsenal defence, which will be without the injured William Gallas, but Wenger must hope they have absorbed some hard lessons from the Spurs game and are ready for the challenge. Meanwhile, he needs to examine thoroughly all aspects of his own managerial role, before this season runs away from his talented but still flawed team.
To be leading 4-2 with a minute of normal time to go, and yet somehow finish with one point instead of three, betrayed sloppiness or cockiness, ignorance or arrogance, depending on your point of view. Some have said it was unforgiveable; others unprofessional. Either way, dropping those two points must have felt like a defeat and was a further blow to Arsenal's already dented title-winning chances, particularly as Liverpool, Chelsea, Manchester United and Aston Villa all won.
Having produced a resilient and disciplined performance at West Ham on Sunday to keep a clean-sheet and secure a 2-0 victory, it was certainly cavalier if not reckless to squander a two-goal margin twice in one match while conceding four goals. It is hard to imagine Liverpool, Chelsea or United being so carelessly generous; they are more ruthless, and the winning mentality seems to be more deeply ingrained. But Arsenal have a bit of form in this regard, the most notorious recent example being at Birmingham last February when they also let slip two points by conceding a last-ditch equaliser to opponents whom they had outplayed in terms of football, but not fully matched for spirit and concentration. They had last season's Champions League quarter-final against Liverpool in the bag, too, when Emmanuel Adebayor scored to make it 2-2 on the night, 3-3 on aggregate, and put the Gunners ahead on away goals with six minutes to go. But they conceded twice in those six minutes. Back in the Premier League, they took the lead in but lost those two crucial encounters at Chelsea and Manchester United, and did the same against Hull at the Emirates in September.
Arsene Wenger admitted after the Spurs game that he was angry about what had happened in those fateful closing minutes. Few Arsenal fans will have been any less incensed - and many of them have been directing their anger at the Frenchman himself. Wenger said he was pleased with the overall performance of his team and felt Arsenal were a couple of levels better than Spurs in terms of quality. But he was annoyed about the naivety and lack of maturity shown by his side, and insisted they had been caught out trying to protect the lead instead of going for the jugular by adding further goals when the game was there for the taking.
"We were too cautious rather than scoring number five or six." said Wenger. "The right pass would have seen us score.
"The maturity problem will improve with intelligence. They will learn from their mistakes."
While many Arsenal fans are asking, "When?" the question remains: if he wanted the team to keep seeking goals and build an unassailable margin, why take off three attacking players - Theo Walcott, Robin van Persie and Samir Nasri - who had consistently caused Spurs problems - and replace them with more defensive players - Emmanuel Eboue, Abou Diaby and Alex Song? Those substitutions have been much criticised by disgruntled Arsenal fans. Of course, had the team seen out those last few minutes without conceding twice more, the changes would not have been remarked upon and Wenger's Arsenal would have been praised for bouncing back from the shock of
conceding ex-Gunner David Bentley's goal-of-the-season contender to score four of their own and win 4-2. Such is the fineness of the line that divides success from failure; heroes from villains.
However, there is another issue here, and it is a bit of a paradox. Wenger has said the team were too cautious in those latter stages and, despite his substitutions, should have pressed for more goals. Many observers felt that it was precisely because they were still going forward, still looking for the killer pass, that they left themselves exposed to Tottenham counter-attacks and paid the price. The accepted tactical wisdom in those situations is that you retain possession of the ball - by taking it into the opposition's corner, ideally, and let the clock run down. It used to be called time-wasting but is an effective way to preserve a lead with the seconds ticking away.
That Arsenal didn't do this - indeed, that they are clearly encouraged not to do it - underlines a key point of difference between themselves and their main rivals; between their manager's philosophy and that of his adversaries. Wenger's belief in and pursuit of the beautiful attacking game is admirable and produces highly entertaining football. But adherence to purity over pragmatism in all situations is taking principle to the edge of self-indulgence and risks negating what should be every team's primary objective: to win the match.
The perception of Arsenal's fluent, passing football as a thing of beauty is all very well, but it needs to be balanced with the knowledge of how to win matches, to close out games from winning positions.
In the hours since the ecstatic Spurs players celebrated their dramatic draw on the Emirates turf with such unbounded joy and relief, Harry Redknapp has been elevated to magician status and a lot of Arsenal fans have trained their critical guns on the Frenchman who has done so much to transform their club in so many positive ways.
Some have asked how much longer the Gunners' boss will cite a "lack of maturity" while steadfastly refusing to invest in that commodity in the transfer market. Yes, his players are gaining experience with every match, but that nous seemed to go AWOL in a couple of crazy minutes on Wednesday.
Others have queried not so much the personnel who were changed with those substitutions, but the wisdom in making any changes at all. After all, sending on three substitutes added at least another 90 seconds to the game when the target at that stage was to get to the final whistle as quickly as possible, with the lead intact.
And perhaps the most damning criticism I've heard levelled at The Professor since Wednesday is that he is following a different agenda from that being pursued by the club in general and the fans in particular. According to this train of thought, Wenger's desire to embellish his own reputation as the man who can consistently turn unpolished pebbles into glittering gems is getting in the way of the pursuit of silverware.
The consequence of this obsession with player development, it is argued, is that Arsenal's ambitions have become more limited, shifting from winning the title at all costs to ensuring a top-four finish and another Champions League campaign.
Personally, I find it difficult to buy into this point of view. Wenger's reputation as a masterful, possibly unrivalled spotter of raw talent and potential with the ability to hone it into highly valued and marketable players is guaranteed, even if he never nurtures another Vieira, Henry, Fabregas or Clichy.
But he should know better than most that a manager is ultimately judged by the number of trophies on his CV. He has proved himself to be a formidable winner of trophies before at Arsenal, and I would imagine he is desperate to re-assert his credentials in that regard by leading Arsenal to more silverware - knowing that the true currency of success for any English club is the Premier League title, followed by the Champions League.
The point is not so much whether he wants another title; of course he does. It is how he goes about achieving it. And few would disagree after some of this season's performances (against Fulham, Hull, Sunderland and, for the last few minutes, Spurs) that the lack of an experienced, older head in midfield to provide genuine leadership has proved costly. Wenger famously cites his team's 'mental strength' in the majority of his interviews; but that is precisely where the team are still deficient on occasions.
The departure of Mathieu Flamini is proving to be more of a problem than expected, and for two reasons. Firstly, while AC Milan's summer recruit was not so good as to be irreplaceable, the hard graft and running that he supplied has not been adequately replaced. Secondly and particularly worryingly, that absence of sweat in the midfield engine-room has clearly affected Cesc Fabregas. He has not reproduced last season's form as yet, has admitted to missing Flamini's contribution (and Alexander Hleb's), and has become somewhat more equivocal about his future according to the quotes attributed to him. In the modern climate, no player's loyalty can be taken for granted, but the best way to keep the best players is to ensure they are part of a winning team.
And it must also be acknowledged that a winning mentality is one that is focused and disciplined. Ahead of the Spurs game, the reported pre-match comments of one or two Arsenal players - notably Fabregas and Adebayor - betrayed a lack of focus. To dismiss Tottenham's chances in print and sound-bites bordered on arrogance, hinted at a degree of complacency ("We'll win no matter what") and can have only helped motivate the opposition. Playing to the gallery may elicit a cheap laugh, but there is no room for disrespect in professional sport: it will almost always come back and bite you. Perhaps Wenger should warn his players to be more circumspect with their public utterances from now on.
In the event, the Spurs players did themselves and their supporters proud with a battling display that rewarded them with what had seemed an impossible point - even to the many Tottenham fans who left early in resigned despair and missed the astonishing denouement. They punished Arsenal's complacency with determination and clinical finishing that bridged the gap in class. The remarkable comeback propelled the 'Redknapp effect' to centre-stage, though as Wenger correctly noted, Harry would not have been a factor had Arsenal not shot themselves in the foot.
At the end of the proverbial day Wednesday's North London derby was a fabulous football match, and it would be churlish to carp about the understandable delight of a team on the bottom earning a remarkable point against one of the Big Four. But as always it is important keep a sense of perspective. That game is gone and no-one at the Emirates can do anything about it now. The most important thing now is the next match. For Arsenal that is away to Stoke City. Wenger said the players were very deflated after Wednesday's extraordinary events, and it is his task to lift their spirits and ensure they are fully fired up for Saturday and utterly determined to nail the three points at the Britannia Stadium.
It won't be easy: Stoke are as direct as they come - a physically powerful side who rely heavily on the tactic of the long-throw as a potent attacking weapon. It will be an uncomfortable afternoon for the Arsenal defence, which will be without the injured William Gallas, but Wenger must hope they have absorbed some hard lessons from the Spurs game and are ready for the challenge. Meanwhile, he needs to examine thoroughly all aspects of his own managerial role, before this season runs away from his talented but still flawed team.
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Radford149
- Posts: 3295
- Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:47 pm
Who the fuck can be bothered to read ALL that....aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhrilub wrote:fter Arsenal contrived to snatch a draw from the jaws of victory against Spurs on Wednesday, Gunners fans are left facing the fact that their team is still a work in progress and some way short of the finished article.
To be leading 4-2 with a minute of normal time to go, and yet somehow finish with one point instead of three, betrayed sloppiness or cockiness, ignorance or arrogance, depending on your point of view. Some have said it was unforgiveable; others unprofessional. Either way, dropping those two points must have felt like a defeat and was a further blow to Arsenal's already dented title-winning chances, particularly as Liverpool, Chelsea, Manchester United and Aston Villa all won.
Having produced a resilient and disciplined performance at West Ham on Sunday to keep a clean-sheet and secure a 2-0 victory, it was certainly cavalier if not reckless to squander a two-goal margin twice in one match while conceding four goals. It is hard to imagine Liverpool, Chelsea or United being so carelessly generous; they are more ruthless, and the winning mentality seems to be more deeply ingrained. But Arsenal have a bit of form in this regard, the most notorious recent example being at Birmingham last February when they also let slip two points by conceding a last-ditch equaliser to opponents whom they had outplayed in terms of football, but not fully matched for spirit and concentration. They had last season's Champions League quarter-final against Liverpool in the bag, too, when Emmanuel Adebayor scored to make it 2-2 on the night, 3-3 on aggregate, and put the Gunners ahead on away goals with six minutes to go. But they conceded twice in those six minutes. Back in the Premier League, they took the lead in but lost those two crucial encounters at Chelsea and Manchester United, and did the same against Hull at the Emirates in September.
Arsene Wenger admitted after the Spurs game that he was angry about what had happened in those fateful closing minutes. Few Arsenal fans will have been any less incensed - and many of them have been directing their anger at the Frenchman himself. Wenger said he was pleased with the overall performance of his team and felt Arsenal were a couple of levels better than Spurs in terms of quality. But he was annoyed about the naivety and lack of maturity shown by his side, and insisted they had been caught out trying to protect the lead instead of going for the jugular by adding further goals when the game was there for the taking.
"We were too cautious rather than scoring number five or six." said Wenger. "The right pass would have seen us score.
"The maturity problem will improve with intelligence. They will learn from their mistakes."
While many Arsenal fans are asking, "When?" the question remains: if he wanted the team to keep seeking goals and build an unassailable margin, why take off three attacking players - Theo Walcott, Robin van Persie and Samir Nasri - who had consistently caused Spurs problems - and replace them with more defensive players - Emmanuel Eboue, Abou Diaby and Alex Song? Those substitutions have been much criticised by disgruntled Arsenal fans. Of course, had the team seen out those last few minutes without conceding twice more, the changes would not have been remarked upon and Wenger's Arsenal would have been praised for bouncing back from the shock of
conceding ex-Gunner David Bentley's goal-of-the-season contender to score four of their own and win 4-2. Such is the fineness of the line that divides success from failure; heroes from villains.
However, there is another issue here, and it is a bit of a paradox. Wenger has said the team were too cautious in those latter stages and, despite his substitutions, should have pressed for more goals. Many observers felt that it was precisely because they were still going forward, still looking for the killer pass, that they left themselves exposed to Tottenham counter-attacks and paid the price. The accepted tactical wisdom in those situations is that you retain possession of the ball - by taking it into the opposition's corner, ideally, and let the clock run down. It used to be called time-wasting but is an effective way to preserve a lead with the seconds ticking away.
That Arsenal didn't do this - indeed, that they are clearly encouraged not to do it - underlines a key point of difference between themselves and their main rivals; between their manager's philosophy and that of his adversaries. Wenger's belief in and pursuit of the beautiful attacking game is admirable and produces highly entertaining football. But adherence to purity over pragmatism in all situations is taking principle to the edge of self-indulgence and risks negating what should be every team's primary objective: to win the match.
The perception of Arsenal's fluent, passing football as a thing of beauty is all very well, but it needs to be balanced with the knowledge of how to win matches, to close out games from winning positions.
In the hours since the ecstatic Spurs players celebrated their dramatic draw on the Emirates turf with such unbounded joy and relief, Harry Redknapp has been elevated to magician status and a lot of Arsenal fans have trained their critical guns on the Frenchman who has done so much to transform their club in so many positive ways.
Some have asked how much longer the Gunners' boss will cite a "lack of maturity" while steadfastly refusing to invest in that commodity in the transfer market. Yes, his players are gaining experience with every match, but that nous seemed to go AWOL in a couple of crazy minutes on Wednesday.
Others have queried not so much the personnel who were changed with those substitutions, but the wisdom in making any changes at all. After all, sending on three substitutes added at least another 90 seconds to the game when the target at that stage was to get to the final whistle as quickly as possible, with the lead intact.
And perhaps the most damning criticism I've heard levelled at The Professor since Wednesday is that he is following a different agenda from that being pursued by the club in general and the fans in particular. According to this train of thought, Wenger's desire to embellish his own reputation as the man who can consistently turn unpolished pebbles into glittering gems is getting in the way of the pursuit of silverware.
The consequence of this obsession with player development, it is argued, is that Arsenal's ambitions have become more limited, shifting from winning the title at all costs to ensuring a top-four finish and another Champions League campaign.
Personally, I find it difficult to buy into this point of view. Wenger's reputation as a masterful, possibly unrivalled spotter of raw talent and potential with the ability to hone it into highly valued and marketable players is guaranteed, even if he never nurtures another Vieira, Henry, Fabregas or Clichy.
But he should know better than most that a manager is ultimately judged by the number of trophies on his CV. He has proved himself to be a formidable winner of trophies before at Arsenal, and I would imagine he is desperate to re-assert his credentials in that regard by leading Arsenal to more silverware - knowing that the true currency of success for any English club is the Premier League title, followed by the Champions League.
The point is not so much whether he wants another title; of course he does. It is how he goes about achieving it. And few would disagree after some of this season's performances (against Fulham, Hull, Sunderland and, for the last few minutes, Spurs) that the lack of an experienced, older head in midfield to provide genuine leadership has proved costly. Wenger famously cites his team's 'mental strength' in the majority of his interviews; but that is precisely where the team are still deficient on occasions.
The departure of Mathieu Flamini is proving to be more of a problem than expected, and for two reasons. Firstly, while AC Milan's summer recruit was not so good as to be irreplaceable, the hard graft and running that he supplied has not been adequately replaced. Secondly and particularly worryingly, that absence of sweat in the midfield engine-room has clearly affected Cesc Fabregas. He has not reproduced last season's form as yet, has admitted to missing Flamini's contribution (and Alexander Hleb's), and has become somewhat more equivocal about his future according to the quotes attributed to him. In the modern climate, no player's loyalty can be taken for granted, but the best way to keep the best players is to ensure they are part of a winning team.
And it must also be acknowledged that a winning mentality is one that is focused and disciplined. Ahead of the Spurs game, the reported pre-match comments of one or two Arsenal players - notably Fabregas and Adebayor - betrayed a lack of focus. To dismiss Tottenham's chances in print and sound-bites bordered on arrogance, hinted at a degree of complacency ("We'll win no matter what") and can have only helped motivate the opposition. Playing to the gallery may elicit a cheap laugh, but there is no room for disrespect in professional sport: it will almost always come back and bite you. Perhaps Wenger should warn his players to be more circumspect with their public utterances from now on.
In the event, the Spurs players did themselves and their supporters proud with a battling display that rewarded them with what had seemed an impossible point - even to the many Tottenham fans who left early in resigned despair and missed the astonishing denouement. They punished Arsenal's complacency with determination and clinical finishing that bridged the gap in class. The remarkable comeback propelled the 'Redknapp effect' to centre-stage, though as Wenger correctly noted, Harry would not have been a factor had Arsenal not shot themselves in the foot.
At the end of the proverbial day Wednesday's North London derby was a fabulous football match, and it would be churlish to carp about the understandable delight of a team on the bottom earning a remarkable point against one of the Big Four. But as always it is important keep a sense of perspective. That game is gone and no-one at the Emirates can do anything about it now. The most important thing now is the next match. For Arsenal that is away to Stoke City. Wenger said the players were very deflated after Wednesday's extraordinary events, and it is his task to lift their spirits and ensure they are fully fired up for Saturday and utterly determined to nail the three points at the Britannia Stadium.
It won't be easy: Stoke are as direct as they come - a physically powerful side who rely heavily on the tactic of the long-throw as a potent attacking weapon. It will be an uncomfortable afternoon for the Arsenal defence, which will be without the injured William Gallas, but Wenger must hope they have absorbed some hard lessons from the Spurs game and are ready for the challenge. Meanwhile, he needs to examine thoroughly all aspects of his own managerial role, before this season runs away from his talented but still flawed team.
HEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPPPP
Am still stunned , angry and very sad over the events of Wednesday and the subsequent fallout. I hear today that Wenger is blaming Gallas, Silvestre and Ade for the result. If this is true, I find it very difficult to understand his reasoning. I think most of us agree that Almunia had another poor night, Denilson looked ok but is not what we need in midfield and Ade is not playing like he can. However, at 3-1 and 4-2, it was Wenger who took the initiative away from us and gave it to them by his negative substitutions and then after the match accuses the players of being too negative!! Robin and Theo were outstanding and should have remained on the pitch. We needed to be negative in that last period by keeping the ball and using our passing quality to stop them playing and not necessarily trying to score a 5th or 6th. The thing that stood out to me when watching, was to see Song come strolling on the pitch laughing and joking as if the game was won. Well he lost two vital challenges in the lead up to their 4th goal and how come Wenger isn't having a pop at him. This reminded me of the way Liverpool players were reacting back in 1989 in the last minutes of the game at Anfield, just before Michael Thomas got the vital second goal to win us the league. Fabregas, who I admire greatly, made a complete prat of himself by his comments about the Ladies team, tongue in cheek or not, and he was to blame for giving the ball away to their keeper in the final minute, but no dig from Wenger again! Our players need to start showing professionalism both on and off the pitch. Wenger needs to stop blaming others and start admitting what he is doing is seriously affecting the team and our chances of winning anything yet again. How I wish some of the commentators would stop giving him an easy ride and start putting some difficult questions his way.
