http://www.onlinegooner.com/exclusive/index.php?id=819
usual thread starter… one of my mates calls Wenger ‘Napoleon’…
well, in that case, not tonight, eboue…
although we can't blame saturday on him!
Is Wenger’s management style the elephant in the room? -3/11
The article sums it up, there's also a good article from Myles Palmer on ANR about Wenger.
Using the term 'An ostrich burying his head in the sand' is spot on. Wenger, for some reason, will not admit to the squads failings. Whether this is blind loyalty, misplaced trust, a stubborness to buy established players (something he has always said he doesn't want to do) or just plain bad management I don't know....well I suspect it's a bit of all of those.
The bottom line is:
Arsenal have been in 'transition' for the last couple of seasons (at least)
The squad has been allowed to get weaker and weaker
Problems that Wenger admitted we had last season have not been addressed
Our manager now seems to find it necessary to lie regularly to cover poor performance
Until there is an admission that we are not strong enough, there will be no improvement in the quality of the squad
We're like an old alcoholic, stumbling from game to game, pissed as a fart but claiming we don't have a drink problem. Sometimes we have a blinder but most of the time we are suffering from a huge hangover.
What's the answer? Well Wenger won't be sacked I think that's clear and I think that's right. It would be very harsh to sack the man who has taken the club to new heights. However, this can't go on. I'm sure most realistic fans would agree that we're out of the title race already, the CL is most unlikely and because of the way Wenger treats the domestic cups, we're likely to end the season potless again (unless Wenger does change the way he views the FA Cup)?
If we do end the season potless, and god forbid out of the CL places then Wenger has to go, no question. Although I do believe that it will be by mutual consent. But if we win no trophies but secure 4th place, what then? Do we continue with Wenger and his philosophy? Can we keep Fab for another year just by finishing 4th? Will Wenger be even more sure that the current squad is strong enough with another years experience under their belts?
Others have made fair comments about getting a stronger personality as Wenger's no. 2 but that won't happen unless Arsene wants it.
It's a mess that doesn't look like it is going to get any better in the short term. It will take a bold move by Wenger to admit in the near future, or even at the end of the season that he was wrong and that we are not good enough. If that is the scenario that plays out then next year could well be another year of transition. My opinion is that I really don't think Wenger will be here next season, I don't see him admitting his, and our shortcomings and I can't see the club being happy to let it go another season.
Using the term 'An ostrich burying his head in the sand' is spot on. Wenger, for some reason, will not admit to the squads failings. Whether this is blind loyalty, misplaced trust, a stubborness to buy established players (something he has always said he doesn't want to do) or just plain bad management I don't know....well I suspect it's a bit of all of those.
The bottom line is:
Arsenal have been in 'transition' for the last couple of seasons (at least)
The squad has been allowed to get weaker and weaker
Problems that Wenger admitted we had last season have not been addressed
Our manager now seems to find it necessary to lie regularly to cover poor performance
Until there is an admission that we are not strong enough, there will be no improvement in the quality of the squad
We're like an old alcoholic, stumbling from game to game, pissed as a fart but claiming we don't have a drink problem. Sometimes we have a blinder but most of the time we are suffering from a huge hangover.
What's the answer? Well Wenger won't be sacked I think that's clear and I think that's right. It would be very harsh to sack the man who has taken the club to new heights. However, this can't go on. I'm sure most realistic fans would agree that we're out of the title race already, the CL is most unlikely and because of the way Wenger treats the domestic cups, we're likely to end the season potless again (unless Wenger does change the way he views the FA Cup)?
If we do end the season potless, and god forbid out of the CL places then Wenger has to go, no question. Although I do believe that it will be by mutual consent. But if we win no trophies but secure 4th place, what then? Do we continue with Wenger and his philosophy? Can we keep Fab for another year just by finishing 4th? Will Wenger be even more sure that the current squad is strong enough with another years experience under their belts?
Others have made fair comments about getting a stronger personality as Wenger's no. 2 but that won't happen unless Arsene wants it.
It's a mess that doesn't look like it is going to get any better in the short term. It will take a bold move by Wenger to admit in the near future, or even at the end of the season that he was wrong and that we are not good enough. If that is the scenario that plays out then next year could well be another year of transition. My opinion is that I really don't think Wenger will be here next season, I don't see him admitting his, and our shortcomings and I can't see the club being happy to let it go another season.
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bergkamp10
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Well I would say that article does exactly to the heart of the matter.TeeCee wrote:The article sums it up, there's also a good article from Myles Palmer on ANR about Wenger.
Using the term 'An ostrich burying his head in the sand' is spot on. Wenger, for some reason, will not admit to the squads failings. Whether this is blind loyalty, misplaced trust, a stubborness to buy established players (something he has always said he doesn't want to do) or just plain bad management I don't know....well I suspect it's a bit of all of those.
The bottom line is:
Arsenal have been in 'transition' for the last couple of seasons (at least)
The squad has been allowed to get weaker and weaker
Problems that Wenger admitted we had last season have not been addressed
Our manager now seems to find it necessary to lie regularly to cover poor performance
Until there is an admission that we are not strong enough, there will be no improvement in the quality of the squad
We're like an old alcoholic, stumbling from game to game, pissed as a fart but claiming we don't have a drink problem. Sometimes we have a blinder but most of the time we are suffering from a huge hangover.
What's the answer? Well Wenger won't be sacked I think that's clear and I think that's right. It would be very harsh to sack the man who has taken the club to new heights. However, this can't go on. I'm sure most realistic fans would agree that we're out of the title race already, the CL is most unlikely and because of the way Wenger treats the domestic cups, we're likely to end the season potless again (unless Wenger does change the way he views the FA Cup)?
If we do end the season potless, and god forbid out of the CL places then Wenger has to go, no question. Although I do believe that it will be by mutual consent. But if we win no trophies but secure 4th place, what then? Do we continue with Wenger and his philosophy? Can we keep Fab for another year just by finishing 4th? Will Wenger be even more sure that the current squad is strong enough with another years experience under their belts?
Others have made fair comments about getting a stronger personality as Wenger's no. 2 but that won't happen unless Arsene wants it.
It's a mess that doesn't look like it is going to get any better in the short term. It will take a bold move by Wenger to admit in the near future, or even at the end of the season that he was wrong and that we are not good enough. If that is the scenario that plays out then next year could well be another year of transition. My opinion is that I really don't think Wenger will be here next season, I don't see him admitting his, and our shortcomings and I can't see the club being happy to let it go another season.
I put some boring posts on here before to the fact, that we have inadequate cover and quailty to provide a sustained chaellenge for the league title.
I sincerely hope that the BOD have a comprehensive review of the situation, otherwise we could be in for another season of pain....
We support them through thick and thin(thin times mi-late 80's), but the common thread was a shine of a team.
Keep smiling.................
Regarding Arsenal’s recent poor results, particularly the draw with Tottenham and the loss at Stoke, it was with interest that I noted Arsene Wengers’s reported comments, after some criticisms of Arsenal, when he stated that “he was basing Arsenal’s play on the Brazilian model and surely everyone should appreciate that as a good thingâ€
I have been so depressed since Saturday and trying to take stock of the Stoke defeat, but I think what really depresses me the most is that it was all so f*****g predictable - as many on these pages said before Saturday. I see that Lawrenson on the BBC sport website predicted us to win 2-1. What a laugh! Now I have been trying to put some perspective into it and because I'm on old git I am old enough to remember us losing at Stoke in 84/85 when they were really crap (and were relegated I think with the lowest points total ever until Sundland a few years ago) cos I was there and remember the locals being tasty then too (it was a long run back to the station). So where have we come since then? The same old failings and frailities as Don Howe's team had back then and I fear a period of mid table mediocrity as well!
The crucial thing that has been mentioned is that we have no SPINE. I was always told that you build a good team through the middle - a good GK, a Centre half and a good centre forward. Thats the spine of the team and the rest around it is bunting. Just look at the likes of the Mancs and Chavski - Van Der Sar, Ferdinand, Vidic and any one of the 4 upfront, Chavs with Cech, Terry & Drogba. Even the Scousers with Carragher, Torres and Gerrard (dont rate the keeper too much though). Who have we got? Almunia? Tsa Tsa Gallas and Adebayor?
One of the main reasons I f*****g always loved AFC was because they would go away to these horrible places oop north and give it back to the bastards with interest when the dirty norther gits dished it out. They didnt just roll over like Sp*rs or Chelsea always did. We had a bit of fight. We had a bit of mettle. Sadly no longer. Sadly we are just a bunch of whinging southern softies who dont like it when it gets rough - and everyone knows it. Rant over, thank you!
The crucial thing that has been mentioned is that we have no SPINE. I was always told that you build a good team through the middle - a good GK, a Centre half and a good centre forward. Thats the spine of the team and the rest around it is bunting. Just look at the likes of the Mancs and Chavski - Van Der Sar, Ferdinand, Vidic and any one of the 4 upfront, Chavs with Cech, Terry & Drogba. Even the Scousers with Carragher, Torres and Gerrard (dont rate the keeper too much though). Who have we got? Almunia? Tsa Tsa Gallas and Adebayor?
One of the main reasons I f*****g always loved AFC was because they would go away to these horrible places oop north and give it back to the bastards with interest when the dirty norther gits dished it out. They didnt just roll over like Sp*rs or Chelsea always did. We had a bit of fight. We had a bit of mettle. Sadly no longer. Sadly we are just a bunch of whinging southern softies who dont like it when it gets rough - and everyone knows it. Rant over, thank you!
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QuartzGooner
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bergkamp10
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Indeed two excellent posts by Expat and Smudger. Indeed I remember that season in the 80's (just) thankfully we learned our lessons. Graham then build a tough side to beat, not great to watch I know.QuartzGooner wrote:Welcome Expat..and Welcome Smudger.
Two very good posts.
I do have more faith in Adebayor than others, as I think he is in a bad spell at the moment and will improve.
But yes, the SPINE is in need of attention.
And yes, we need clinical strikers to make our style of play work.
Eduardo and Vela?
Again, I think we are only three players away froma great side, it depends whether our Lord and Master can see that or not..!!!
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proudtosaythatname
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80s Gooner
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Pat Rice
Everybody seems to think that Arsene needs a new no 2.
Why?
You cannot get more Arsenal than Pat Rice.
Pat Rice joined an underacheiving Arsenal team in the mid 60's
He was one of many young prospects at the time.
Like all gunners he faced disapointment with 2 cup final defeats.
Then enjoyed success with the Fairs cup and then with the league and cup double.
Then near success in the FA cup final & finishing runners up in the league.
He then courted relegation. Before captaining the next generation of young gunners (Brady, Stapleton, O'leary & Rix) to 3 conecutive cup finals and a European final. Also helping Arsenal qualify for Europe evey season that he was captain.
He then buggered off to Watford to see out his last days. Before returning to Arsenal as youth team manager. When the youth team had the likes of Merson, Thomas, Campbell and Dikov.
He was in the dugout at Anfield when we won there in 89.
He also took charge of Arsenal for a couple of games before Arsene Wenger arrived.
He has seen and done it all at Arsenal.
Don't you think he cares?
Why do you think that he has not got the guts to question Arsene.
This is a man who captained his country & was made Arsenal captain ahead of Alan Ball.
If AW won't listen to him. What makes you think that he will listen to anybody else.
Why?
You cannot get more Arsenal than Pat Rice.
Pat Rice joined an underacheiving Arsenal team in the mid 60's
He was one of many young prospects at the time.
Like all gunners he faced disapointment with 2 cup final defeats.
Then enjoyed success with the Fairs cup and then with the league and cup double.
Then near success in the FA cup final & finishing runners up in the league.
He then courted relegation. Before captaining the next generation of young gunners (Brady, Stapleton, O'leary & Rix) to 3 conecutive cup finals and a European final. Also helping Arsenal qualify for Europe evey season that he was captain.
He then buggered off to Watford to see out his last days. Before returning to Arsenal as youth team manager. When the youth team had the likes of Merson, Thomas, Campbell and Dikov.
He was in the dugout at Anfield when we won there in 89.
He also took charge of Arsenal for a couple of games before Arsene Wenger arrived.
He has seen and done it all at Arsenal.
Don't you think he cares?
Why do you think that he has not got the guts to question Arsene.
This is a man who captained his country & was made Arsenal captain ahead of Alan Ball.
If AW won't listen to him. What makes you think that he will listen to anybody else.
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QuartzGooner
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proudtosaythatname
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Yes Martin Keown could teach the current defence a thing or two. He may not have looked as polished as some of our latest model applicants BUT he really marked his man and only unclamped his teeth when the final whistle blew.
Maybe another reason that he or other old Arsenal "golden oldies" (said with the greatest respect), are not involved is that their French language ability is not up to scratch. I don't know if Martin or for that matter Pat Rice, can speak French but from all reports it seems to be a necessity for team talks etc., etc., which is a shame for one of the most famous English clubs in the world.
I think that Mr Wenger has done wonders for Arsenal, but his emphasis appears to have been aimed at young talent as long as they are French speaking, with a few exceptions. I think Theo Walcott must be taking French lessons somewhere.
The above comments referred to Pat Rice's job and I think he does a good job but is obviously has to take what Mr Wenger gives. The problem being that Mr wenger now has awesome power and the BoD seem to like being dictated and lied to! This has brought about Mr Wenger's apparent Blinkered or tunnel view of events, where he seems to think that his way is the only way and cannot be improved. Good example was the Stoke game; before the game everyone said that Rory Delap would bombard Arsenal's soft centre and what happened - two gift goals?
Maybe another reason that he or other old Arsenal "golden oldies" (said with the greatest respect), are not involved is that their French language ability is not up to scratch. I don't know if Martin or for that matter Pat Rice, can speak French but from all reports it seems to be a necessity for team talks etc., etc., which is a shame for one of the most famous English clubs in the world.
I think that Mr Wenger has done wonders for Arsenal, but his emphasis appears to have been aimed at young talent as long as they are French speaking, with a few exceptions. I think Theo Walcott must be taking French lessons somewhere.
The above comments referred to Pat Rice's job and I think he does a good job but is obviously has to take what Mr Wenger gives. The problem being that Mr wenger now has awesome power and the BoD seem to like being dictated and lied to! This has brought about Mr Wenger's apparent Blinkered or tunnel view of events, where he seems to think that his way is the only way and cannot be improved. Good example was the Stoke game; before the game everyone said that Rory Delap would bombard Arsenal's soft centre and what happened - two gift goals?
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bergkamp10
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- Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:23 pm
- Location: Cumbria
Theexpat,
That's fair comment for sure, but we must remain passionate about ur club..! Yes we could all see Saturday coming for sure, it really was a inadequate performance. I really feel this should of been recognised by the coahing staff as well. The points made about Martin Keown are true, and I remember well how Blould, Adams, Keown use to zone mark the si-yard line to attack the ball and clear the lines. Dixon and W'Burn would cover the posts. This was sometimes used for throws as well.
I think that Mr Wenger has done wonders for Arsenal, but his emphasis appears to have been aimed at young talent as long as they are French speaking, with a few exceptions.
Let's hope he proves us wrong in Jan, because I am hopeful he is intelligent enough to see what is happening currently.
That's fair comment for sure, but we must remain passionate about ur club..! Yes we could all see Saturday coming for sure, it really was a inadequate performance. I really feel this should of been recognised by the coahing staff as well. The points made about Martin Keown are true, and I remember well how Blould, Adams, Keown use to zone mark the si-yard line to attack the ball and clear the lines. Dixon and W'Burn would cover the posts. This was sometimes used for throws as well.
I think that Mr Wenger has done wonders for Arsenal, but his emphasis appears to have been aimed at young talent as long as they are French speaking, with a few exceptions.
Let's hope he proves us wrong in Jan, because I am hopeful he is intelligent enough to see what is happening currently.
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QuartzGooner
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