Adebayor...hands up

Magic Hat · Post by **Magic Hat** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:41 am

Ade is rather...erratic with his finishing but he works hard and is a forward I like but doubt he will get 20 this season, I would say around 15 or so from him.

stearmaster · Post by **stearmaster** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:57 am

Post by **T.S** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:29 am

TheOne2Smooth wrote:Sorry Tony but I think Adebayor has proved himself already. you must of forgot Ade at Mould trafford last year? he also scored goals against the spuds last season. But what I particuly like is if Ade loses the ball he always tries to win it back.

Fair enough point, but are you really telling me that someone who regularly misses glaring opportunities like he does is proven?! I'm not saying he won't go on to do it, and God knows I want him to, but this guy is not someone who I would describe as a proven player. His second on Saturday was his 19th for the Club in his 61st appearance. 19 from 61 is not bad going for someone who is trying to make a name for themselves, but isn't really good enough for a proven forward, is it?

DLGooner · Post by **DLGooner** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:39 am

5 games v the **** and 5 goals - so frustrating that he misses an easy chance yet scores a fucking belter - if he can improve his finishing he would be different gravy.

TheOne2Smooth · Post by **TheOne2Smooth** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:43 am

Tony I have always said Adebayor is a support striker, I mean how prolific was Dennis Bergkamp? would you say he shouldn't of played because he didnt score enough goals?

Adebayor is a big game player I've seen him man handle both John Terry and Rio Ferdinand last season. He causes trouble for other team opposing defenders, He's off ball running is 2nd to none.

I like Adebayor and I think the guy goes out on the pitch with the attitude of 'I'm going to run myself in the ground for the victory'

I thought van Persie had a indifferent game saturday but does that mean I think he aint Arsenal class ? No every player Wenger adds to the club is like a clog in a watch useless on there own but when put together correctly it all starts to tick

augie · Post by **augie** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:49 am

Agree 100% that ade seems to be a big game player but we really only have 8 big games out of 38 in the league and he never seems to do enough in those games. Have to say it really gets on my tits tho when some fans say that he is only 23 and will be a great player when he matures - at what age are you expecting him to mature

Compare him to players like fowler,owen and even our own anelka & cesc and see what they were like at 23 and it will give you a better idea of what the standards should be. His 2nd on saturday was a cracker and will live long in the memory but lets be honest here the man is a trier but not good enough to be a number 2 striker for a club expecting to win a league

TheOne2Smooth · Post by **TheOne2Smooth** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:54 am

augie wrote:Agree 100% that ade seems to be a big game player but we really only have 8 big games out of 38 in the league and he never seems to do enough in those games. Have to say it really gets on my tits tho when some fans say that he is only 23 and will be a great player when he matures - at what age are you expecting him to mature Compare him to players like fowler,owen and even our own anelka & cesc and see what they were like at 23 and it will give you a better idea of what the standards should be. His 2nd on saturday was a cracker and will live long in the memory but lets be honest here the man is a trier but not good enough to be a number 2 striker for a club expecting to win a league

I'll think we will have to agree to disagree here
the only way we will find out is in time and I'm going to give him that are you?

Post by **REB** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:09 am

talk about a player who divides fans,,,,
while i agree he,s got important goals for us i still feel he,s still not the player some feel he is,, his finishing most of the time is terrible but he is getting better so for the moment im sticking with him but long term i cant see us winning the league without an out and out finisher

Post by **T.S** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:30 am

TheOne2Smooth wrote:Tony I have always said Adebayor is a support striker, I mean how prolific was Dennis Bergkamp? would you say he shouldn't of played because he didnt score enough goals?

First thing's first; please don't use the word 'Adebayor' in the same sentence as the word 'Bergkamp'. That's just sacrilege. First off, I think you'll find that for a support striker, Dennis not only was a lot more prolific than Ade by this time in his Arsenal career in terms of goalscoring, but he created a shit load of goals. How many does Ade create? It is naive to suggest that they can be compared in any way...

My point is simple; it is funny how after one cracking goal against the Spuds, many Gooners start seeing him through rose tinted glasses. Yes, the man does run around a lot, but he isn't a prolific goalscorer, nor does he provide assists, so it's hard to suggest what he brings to the team ("something different" is a cop out...). Yes, he runs around. Congrats. I'm sure in his pomp we could have stuck Linford Christie out there and while he would have had a good go at running after the ball, he wouldn't have necessarily have been a good striker.

Now, I feel like I'm digressing here. Ade is a decent enough striker for a mid-table side, but not a team which aspires to win the league/Champions League.

Also, what's all this guff I hear about him being a big game player? I think you'll find that out of our nine games against the "big three" last season (league and cup) he scored once. Now, I know he may not have played 90 minutes in all of them, but where has this notion that he is a big game player come from? A few goals against the Spuds? Come on boys, as fun as it is beating those tossers from down the road, we've got to be thinking bigger than that...

Post by **I Hate Hleb** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:43 pm

tonysaunders wrote: My opinion of Ade hasn't changed one little bit. I'm not that fickle. I admit, his second yesterday was fucking superb, but apart from that, he was extremely wasteful yesterday and he's still a long way off being the finished product.

However, what I would say is that he does seem to score in important games ...

ERM... ISN'T THAT CONTRARY TO WHAT YOU HAVE JUST WRITTEN IN YOUR PREVIOUS POST?

tonysaunders wrote:.. so maybe there is potential there for him to be a top player for us...

tonysaunders wrote:.. ..If he becomes a clinical finisher and generally becomes a more intelligent footballer, then he will definitely be a very important player for us.

THAT'S ALL I HAVE BEEN SAYING TONY, SO WHY THE FUSS?

NOW I LIKE THE FACT THAT HE RUNS HIS NUTS OFF FOR US AND THAT HE - AND THIS IS WHERE HE DIFFERS FROM LINFORD CHRISTIE - WINS BALLS AND CROSSES THAT ARE OCCASIONALLY PUMPED IN THE AIR, HOLDS THE BALL UP TO ALLOW SUPPORTING PLAYERS TO JOIN IN AND DOESN'T LET OPPOSITION DEFENDERS HAVE AN EASY TIME OF IT.

YES, HE COULD DO WITH SCORING MORE GOALS BUT LETS FACE IT, HE IS NEVER GOING TO BE A WRIGHTY!! HOWEVER, HE HAS OTHER ATTRIBUTES THAT 'CLINICAL' GOAL-SCORERS DON'T HAVE, AND MAYBE WITH SOME MORE EXPERIENCE AND MATURITY HIS FINISHING WILL IMPROVE.

AUGIE,

I THINK MOST FOOTBALL EXPECTS ACKNOWLEDGE THAT A PLAYER BECOMES BETTER WITH AGE AND GENERALLY REACH THEIR PEAK AT AROUND THE 29 -32 YEARS OF AGE STAGE. NOW OF COURSE THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS, BUT THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE - EXCEPTIONS.

GENERALLY IN LIFE, EXPERIENCE DOES MAKE YOU BETTER. WAS THEIRRY AT 22/23 BETTER THAN THE HENRY AT 26/27? OF COURSE NOT. AND THERE ARE MANY MORE EXAMPLES OF PLAYERS IMPROVING IN THEIR MID TO LATE 20'S THAN THERE ARE OF PLAYERS BEING 'THE FINISHED ARTICLE' AT 23. EVEN THOSE THAT SUPPOSEDLY ARE THE BUSINESS IN THEIR EARLY TWENTIES TEND TO GO 'DOWN-HILL' QUICKER AND HAVE PROBLEMS LATER IN THEIR CAREERS.

TO COMPARE ADEBAYOR WITH FOWLER AND OWEN IS WRONG BECAUSE THEY HAVE DIFFERENT STRINGS TO THEIR PARTICULAR BOWS. GRANTED, HE ISN'T AS PROLIFIC AS THEY WERE AT THE SAME AGE, BUT CONVERSELY, THEY COULDN'T DO HALF THE THINGS THAT ADE DOES FOR A SIDE.

AS FOR ANELKA, 28 GOALS IN 90 APPEARANCES FOR ARSENAL IS ALMOST THE EXACT SAME RATIO AS ADEBAYOR HAS!!

I AGREE WITH YOU ON A LOT OF THINGS ON THIS FORUM BUT ON THIS SUBJECT I DON'T BECAUSE I BELIEVE YOU TO BE WRONG!

IT'S VERY RARE THAT A FORWARD HAS EVERYTHING IN HIS LOCKER, BUT ADE HAS MORE THAN ENOUGH TO HIS GAME TO MAKE ME APPRECIATE THAT HE IS AN ASSET FOR THIS SIDE AND SHOULD KEEP IMPROVING WITH TIME, PATIENCE AND SUPPORT.

Post by **T.S** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:00 pm

I Hate Hleb wrote:
tonysaunders wrote: My opinion of Ade hasn't changed one little bit. I'm not that fickle. I admit, his second yesterday was fucking superb, but apart from that, he was extremely wasteful yesterday and he's still a long way off being the finished product.

However, what I would say is that he does seem to score in important games, so maybe there is potential there for him to be a top player for us.
ERM... ISN'T THAT CONTRARY TO WHAT YOU HAVE JUST WRITTEN IN YOUR PREVIOUS POST?

Yeah, it is. I noticed that as soon as I wrote it. Didn't bother going back and changing it because I was intrigued to see who would be the one to inevitably point it out. Now, I think this was an example of me thinking what I'm told to think, which I normally try to avoid. Alas, it happens to all of us on occasions.

So can you, or anyone else tell me what attributes he has and what else he brings to the team aside from the cliche 'oh, he runs around a lot', because that's getting like a broken record now. Just because he can run a lot and is reasonable in the air (he scores the occasional header), I don't think that earns him an automatic place in our starting lineup.

Post by **I Hate Hleb** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:49 pm

TONY,

IF YOU READ MY PREVIOUS POST PROPERLY YOU WOULD SEE THAT I GIVE SOME OF THE REASONS WHY HE IS AN ASSET TO THE SIDE, APART FROM THE RUNNING.

EVEN WENGER TODAY SAYS THAT HE GIVES US A PHYSICAL PRESENCE UP FRONT THAT IS HELPFUL TO THE REST OF THE SIDE, AND THAT WE LACK WHEN HE IS NOT PLAYING.

LOOK, NO-ONE IS SAYING ADEBAYOR IS THE BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD. HOWEVER HE DOES HAVE ATTRIBUTES THAT ARE USEFUL TO WHAT IS GENERALLY A SMALL - IN PHYSICAL TERMS - TEAM AND ONE THAT TENDS TO HAVE LESS OPTIONS WHEN HE IS NOT IN IT.

DOES HE DESERVE AN AUTOMATIC STARTING SPOT? MAYBE NOT, BUT THEN AGAIN I LIKE TO THINK NO-ONE IN THE ATTACKING HALF OF THE SIDE (APART MAYBE FROM CESC) SHOULD BE GAURANTEED THAT - NOT EVEN RVP, WHO HAS BEEN LESS THAN SPECTACULAR SO FAR.

LIKE SOMEONE HAS ALREADY SAID, ADEBAYOR DOES DIVIDE OPINION AMONG ARSENAL FANS, MUCH THE SAME WAY AS HLEB, AND I HAVE MANY MATES WHO HAVE NEVER TAKEN TO HIM AND ONLY GIVE ADE PRAISE GRUDGINGLY.

I, ON THE OTHER-HAND, SEE THINGS IN HIM THAT I BELIEVE ARE BENEFICIAL TO OUR SIDE AND HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A SUPPORTER - ALBEIT A FAIRLY LONELY ONE INITIALLY (ESPECIALLY WHEN HE KEPT MISSING SITTERS!!).

AT THE RISK OF REPEATING MYSELF, LET'S JUST WAIT AND SEE HOW THINGS PAN OUT WITH ADEBAYOR THIS SEASON AND THEN WE WILL BE IN A BETTER POSITION TO JUDGE HIS OVER-ALL CONTRIBUTION.
I KNOW THAT YOU, LIKE I AND MANY OTHERS ON HERE, HOPE HE COMES THROUGH WITH SHINING COLOURS!!

Post by **T.S** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:02 pm

"WINS BALLS AND CROSSES THAT ARE OCCASIONALLY PUMPED IN THE AIR, HOLDS THE BALL UP TO ALLOW SUPPORTING PLAYERS TO JOIN IN AND DOESN'T LET OPPOSITION DEFENDERS HAVE AN EASY TIME OF IT.";

OK, "WINS BALLS AND CROSSES THAT ARE OCCASIONALLY PUMPED IN THE AIR"; really? For someone who is so good in the air (now before you react, I never said you said he was great in the air...) he doesn't score many headers and as for him winning a couple of long balls - whoopedy-do.

"HOLDS THE BALL UP TO ALLOW SUPPORTING PLAYERS TO JOIN IN" - this is a cliche that I don't buy. Yes, he has been known to do it, but I don't think he's as good at this as you, and many others make out.

"AND DOESN'T LET OPPOSITION DEFENDERS HAVE AN EASY TIME OF IT." - I thought I asked for no mention of 'he runs around a lot'.

Anyway, I'm bored of this now. It looks like I'll just have to agree to disagree with all of you on here (for a change). Still, here's hoping the long streak of piss can prove me wrong!

Post by **I Hate Hleb** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:23 pm

BLOODY HELL!!

YOU ASK FOR SOME OF HIS OTHER ATTRIBUTES AND WHEN I GIVE THEM - ALONG WITH ARSENE'S OPINION OF ADEBAYOR -YOU'RE STILL NOT HAPPY!!

YOU SAY HE DOESN'T SCORE MANY HEADED GOALS BUT HOW MANY HIGH CROSSES DO WE TEND TO PUT IN? LESS THEN MOST TEAMS I WOULD CONFIDENTLY SAY. AND YES, YOU SHOULD BE HAPPY THAT WE HAVE SOMEONE TO AIM THE BALL UP TO ON OCCASIONS BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE LACKED FOR A WHILE - A TARGET MAN.

YOU CONCEDE THAT HE DOES HOLD THE BALL UP FOR US BUT THEN IMPLY THAT HE IS NOT EVEN THAT GOOD AT IT. COMPARED TO WHO? AND ANYWAY, WHO ELSE IN THE SIDE OFFERS US THOSE OPTIONS?

AS FOR GIVING DEFENDERS A HARD TIME - THAT INVOLVES MORE THAN JUST 'RUNNING AROUND'. HE GIVES DEFENDERS TROUBLE COMPETING IN THE AIR FOR BALLS AND WITH HIS MOVEMENT, AS RIO AND JOHN TERRY HAVE ALREADY TESTIFIED.

NO-ONE SAID THAT YOU HAD TO AGREE WITH THOSE OPINIONS TONY, BUT TO DISMISS THEM SO READILY IS A BIT CHURLISH! OR ARE YOU DOING AN ADRIAN DURHAM/MAGIC HAT, AND DELIBERATELY ARGUING FOR THE SAKE OF IT

goonermc · Post by **goonermc** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:42 pm

2smooth, i was walking behind you just outside H@I station before the Portsmouth game, i noticed the back of your shirt so i was gonna say 'hello', i quickly popped into the Newsagent to get some smokes and when i came out you had vanished. So i'm glad to see your still alive and well!!