I won’t be renewing my season ticket if… (8/10)

[gooner.ed]

http://www.onlinegooner.com/exclusive/index.php?id=430

usual thread starter… The author of this piece certainly has principles if they would stop attending Arsenal matches. In truth, I doubt many would follow their lead despite the opposition to Usmanov. That though, would be the one thing that could bring the house down – an empty stadium. But take a look at Old Trafford if you think that’s likely to happen. I think it would be the cue for quite a few people to knock it on the head though. they'd just be replaced by others who care less about who owns the club.

[Redbull]

http://www.onlinegooner.com/exclusive/index.php?id=430

usual thread starter… The author of this piece certainly has principles if they would stop attending Arsenal matches. In truth, I doubt many would follow their lead despite the opposition to Usmanov. That though, would be the one thing that could bring the house down – an empty stadium. But take a look at Old Trafford if you think that’s likely to happen. I think it would be the cue for quite a few people to knock it on the head though. they'd just be replaced by others who care less about who owns the club.

If we start to base our support on moral principles regarding owners or investors in football clubs, our own or others, we open a can of worms and who knows where it could all end.
The fact is that you cant pick and choose who your family are, only your friends - and that principle applies to supporting a football club also.
If you cease, for whatever reason, to stop supporting a club, by watching on TV - and attending to matches, then you cease to be a supporter in the literal meaning of that word. So then your point is irrelevant, because you no longer have any allegiance to the club.
If however it's a point of principle, such as this one regarding Usmanov's alleged unsuitabillity, then you would logically have to refuse also to attend matches where other clubs had alleged dubious owners. I didn't see any protests outside the Emirates when Manchester City turned up recently though. Selective morality at work here with some perhaps ?

[highburyJD]

gr8 article
rubbish reply

many fans define themselves in terms of the club they support

the reply makes nonsensical claims of 'logic'
attending a single citeh game and commiting yourself fully as a supporter and season ticket holder of a club are clearly not equivalent

IMO if redbull doesn't care about our ownership then he, not the original poster, 'no longer has any allegiance to the club'

[Redbull]

gr8 article
rubbish reply

many fans define themselves in terms of the club they support

the reply makes nonsensical claims of 'logic'
attending a single citeh game and commiting yourself fully as a supporter and season ticket holder of a club are clearly not equivalent

IMO if redbull doesn't care about our ownership then he, not the original poster, 'no longer has any allegiance to the club'

I do care about who owns the club, but if I am going to take a moral stance on this by stop supporting AFC if Usmanov takes over the club ( he's already the second biggest shareholder where are all the empty seats at the Emirates then?)I would consider myself an hypocrite if I attended matches with other alleged, or even proven dubious owners clubs involved . These owners benefit financially from other supporters clubs . So anyone attending these games is helping to support the other club financially and by not protesting condoning the ownership by people like Shinawatra at City. Personally I reckon that all of these morally indignant Mr Angry types from Seven oaks are just spouting hot air and their season ticket renewals will be in the post figuratively speaking before anyone else.

[Galasso]

Selective morality at work here with some perhaps ?

Who lives wholly 100% by their morals and values?

I would think we all have a line over which we will not go - and that this guy sees this situation as crossing the line.

I try to do my best by my morals and values but contradict and fall down on them on a very regular basis. It's no excuse for saying forget it completely.

As for Man City - we can't fight every battle, everywhere. Just do our best.

[thatgooner]

Can I have your season ticket number then?

[Gooner Girl]

Who amongst us is perfect? I'm not. I've tried to see the logic of Redbull's argument but I can't. He says he cares about who owns Arsenal but he's critical of Fred N Wight for suggesting that he personally can't support Arsenal anymore if Usmanov takes over.

I'm not naive enough to think that he represents a majority view amongst Gooners. I know for a fact he doesn't. Most of us don't give a monkey's as long as the trophies roll in.

For what it's worth, and I know it isn't much, I'm with him. I love Arsenal with all my heart. Have done since I was a kid. Hope, so hope to keep on doing so. I just think that there has to be a bottom line somewhere. For me it's Usmanov. Everything I've read about him and his plans for the club repulse me. I simply won't feel that it's my Arsenal if he takes over.

I know most Gooners don't care one way or the other. I'll keep on trying to persuade them that they should.

Charlotte

[into the red]

It is truly repellent to think of someone like Jabba the Hut gaining possession of Arsenal. Someone who is not an Arsenal fan, although he now pretends to be, and appears to relish the idea of owning a popular and also potentially very financially lucrative company. I would be very disappointed if Arsenal fans really don't care who owns their club, as it would represent the end of the club as we have known it, and the ethos which has sustained it since it was founded.

Although there is no direct evidence of what Arsene thinks, there is surely no coincidence in the amount of comments he has made recently about not wanting more money and in stressing the importance of English football keeping its 'soul', and how he admires the traditions of the club. I personally feel he has been sending out coded messages about the situation, and he does not want owners who have no understanding of the history or the values of the club. You can take the selfish view and think that it won't affect you, but it may affect the whole future of the club and whether Wenger stays or goes after the end of his current contract.

[Redbull]

It is truly repellent to think of someone like Jabba the Hut gaining possession of Arsenal. Someone who is not an Arsenal fan, although he now pretends to be, and appears to relish the idea of owning a popular and also potentially very financially lucrative company. I would be very disappointed if Arsenal fans really don't care who owns their club, as it would represent the end of the club as we have known it, and the ethos which has sustained it since it was founded.

Although there is no direct evidence of what Arsene thinks, there is surely no coincidence in the amount of comments he has made recently about not wanting more money and in stressing the importance of English football keeping its 'soul', and how he admires the traditions of the club. I personally feel he has been sending out coded messages about the situation, and he does not want owners who have no understanding of the history or the values of the club. You can take the selfish view and think that it won't affect you, but it may affect the whole future of the club and whether Wenger stays or goes after the end of his current contract.

Wenger will not stay for ever, and he's made that clear.
So Red what do you suggest that we do to stop Usmanuv from buying the club, or heaven forbid if he actually takes AFC over? Picket lines outside the Emitates? A march by irrate gooner's on Downing street, Jock Brown our bottler Premier though has already stated that he's not bothered who owns English football clubs!
Personally I just want to watch football, I have been supporting Arsenal since the 60s and will continue to do so whoever owns the club, and I don't need your sanctimonious advice on this thanks. Keep the moral lectures to yourself is my advice . And our esteemed major shareholder at AFC Diamond Danny made much of his money in South Africa before departing into tax exile, and at the time apartheid was in place in SA and Mandela in prison. I supported the anti apartheid movement myself - I can't recall that Danny ever commented on matters - too busy getting the natives to dig up diamonds for his company no doubt.

[Rainham Red]

Gooner Girl thinks that the marjority of Arsenal supporters don`t care who owns the club as long as trophies roll in but I disagree I believe true Arsenal fans really do care.However,it would be wrong to cease going to watch them because players come and go,managers come and go even Arsene will leave one day but our club will always be there and will need us just as much as we need them.

[REB]

Gooner Girl thinks that the marjority of Arsenal supporters don`t care who owns the club as long as trophies roll in but I disagree I believe true Arsenal fans really do care.However,it would be wrong to cease going to watch them because players come and go,managers come and go even Arsene will leave one day but our club will always be there and will need us just as much as we need them.

i also believe that the majority of gooners would except any new owners as long as the title was at the grove more often,, i seem 2 remember reading that at the time that the hill woods werent flavour of the month when they got control,, and no im not pro usmanov but i am a gooner and proud of it and i will never stop

[Galasso]

...Personally I just want to watch football, I have been supporting Arsenal since the 60s and will continue to do so whoever owns the club, and I don't need your sanctimonious advice on this thanks. Keep the moral lectures to yourself is my advice . And our esteemed major shareholder at AFC Diamond Danny made much of his money in South Africa before departing into tax exile, and at the time apartheid was in place in SA and Mandela in prison. I supported the anti apartheid movement myself - I can't recall that Danny ever commented on matters - too busy getting the natives to dig up diamonds for his company no doubt.

I think that point regarding Fiszman has been made several times before and is not without merit - as would any point regarding the money made by any of our shareholders and it's origins.

However, what we are talking about here, other than Usmanovs "fit and proper" status, is his sole ownership of the club. I know that this doesn't make him any more or less repulsive, but it means he has complete control of the club, decisions and its future. Fiszman doesn't, he is part of a board that, I hope, is made up of people who have independent views and use their oversight.

We can't fight every battle against everything connected to the club - shirts made for pittances in sweat shop for exmaple - but for the original poster, he has to draw the line somewhere. as we all do in our daily lives.

Doing something is better than doing nothing at all. It doesn't mean that guy doesn't care about the diamond trade, it just means it's almost impossible to live a normal life without some contradictions.

[Redbull]

Gooner Girl thinks that the marjority of Arsenal supporters don`t care who owns the club as long as trophies roll in but I disagree I believe true Arsenal fans really do care.However,it would be wrong to cease going to watch them because players come and go,managers come and go even Arsene will leave one day but our club will always be there and will need us just as much as we need them.

There have been problems with the board and supporters going back decades at times. The selling of Liam Brady and Frank Stapleton was one instance. The disgraceful way that Hill Wood and co went behind Arsenal legend Don Howe's back to try and replace him with ex-Tottenham player Terry Venables are just a couple of instances that shatter the cosy image that's been portrayed about the AFC board , most of it a myth of their own making.
Supporters either support the club or they don't. Wenger has made clear, despite Red's claims, that he's not bothered who owns the club. And will work to try and win trophies always . The last thing we need now we are moving into a new era of prosperity and possible success on the field of play is to be distracted by people ranting on about a past reputation that exists only in their own collective minds. Ask Don Howe about it.

[Galasso]

The last thing we need now we are moving into a new era of prosperity and possible success on the field of play is to be distracted by a bunch of fruitcakes ranting on about a past reputation that exists only in their own collective minds

Thank you for reducing the debate to this.

[Redbull]

The last thing we need now we are moving into a new era of prosperity and possible success on the field of play is to be distracted by a bunch of fruitcakes ranting on about a past reputation that exists only in their own collective minds

Thank you for reducing the debate to this.

Sorry, I was not referring to peoples views on here but to those that I have heard calling for demonstrations at matches and such like. I have no objections to anyone having their own views on this and taking an individual approach to dealing with the issue. However I don't want to see this matter spiral out of control and disrupt the clubs progression on the field of play. Which is what football is all about.
As far as I am aware most of the prognostications regarding what will happen if Usmanuv does take over AFC are based on speculation anyway. I would have to see what his actions are first and then make my mind up on how I would respond to him. I don't know that he will do all of these things detrimental to the club that are being alleged anyway.
The UK government are responsible for vetting anyone who comes to the UK regarding their past , so I leave that to them regarding Usmanov.
The current board can keep control of the club anyway , it's in Danny and Co's own hands - however tax-exiles are not high on my list of persons that I trust when it comes to them making decisions which could cost them personally lots of money to make.