What use is this forum ?

gunners-need-steel · Post by **gunners-need-steel** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:39 pm

I can think of a few uses for this forum:
-- for laughs
-- to share in our common love of arsenal
-- for news and other discussions of interest
-- etc etc
-- To come together as a community in defence of our common love: arsenal

The last item is important to me, especially giving the hostile anticvs of usmanov .. and the one thats making me re-assess whether there is any use for this forum.

Countless threads have been started on concerns we all share about the current goings on regarding the ownership of our club. However, it does seem as if folks are just interested in only talking, and are less prepaid to try and do something to protect ourselves from this threat.

There are so many things we can do:
-- go to http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/list/open?cat=616 and sign the petition
-- join red-action at: http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/redactiongroup/
-- join arsenal supporters trust for Â£2 a month, or Â£24 per annum: http://www.arsenaltrust.org/
-- for those with writing skills, keep writing about and publicising this subject.
-- sign another petition here: http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/ ... gi?UsmaAFC

Considering whats at stake, surely, this is not too much to ask of gooners, is it ?

In my opinion, this subject should be the single most important discussion we must be having, whether you agree with (or like) the current board or not. I think most of us will agree that it will be a disaster for this guy to get his hands on our beloved club.

GoonerPhill · Post by **GoonerPhill** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:03 pm

Good thread that.

I totally agree with your comments, there does seem to be a trend in talking the talk but not walking the walk. I've been surprised by the lack of vocal protest at games this season regarding a certain Uzbek, but as much as I think it's shame I have to admit I'm just as guilty. Altho I have joined the Supporters Trust and signed the relevant petitions I cant help feeling that there's little else I can do and my voice will never be heard.

EdgeOfTown · Post by **EdgeOfTown** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:07 pm

good shout mate, we all have to try and do something..I've signed the petition and also put it on a myspace bulletin so anyone I know has seen it and hopefully passed it on from there..
I'll look at the other links and see if theres anything else I can do..

delgooner · Post by **delgooner** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:04 pm

This forum is invaluable to me.

Being an old c**nt gooner stuck out in the sticks and being the only gooner in the village, I like to think of this forum as my club where fellow gooner friends keep me up to date with all things Arsenal. Love to be young again and be down the Holloway Road on match days enjoying the crack but alas have to drive 5 miles to a pub where the gooner support is so strong that the poor guv (who's a Liverpool supporter) has to put the Arsenal game on every week no matter who else is on (he has every channel you can think of) otherwise there would be riots Ha!

So this forum is a lifeline for us gooners out in Siberia land.

Post by **REB** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:20 pm

made new friends
love of all things arsenal
craic is mighty

when at work

or at home

most of all its the fact that
WE ARE ALL GOONERS

augie · Post by **augie** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:10 pm

Unless I am mistaken Rebel & Del ye seem to have taken up the purpose of this post all wrong. I dont think g-n-s wants to know what you value this forum for but rather wants to whip us all up into a frenzy opposing all things usmanov. Me personally I am not against this opposition to usmanov on principle but at the same time I dont want to be grouped in with fans who oppose any potential takeovers by the media. I have already read the headlines saying that Arsenal fans are united in their opposition to any takeover and clearly that has not been my position all summer and is not about to change. I 100% oppose usmanov but am also amused at calls for moves like "suitable owners" tests where any interested bidder would have to be vetoed by the goverment/the fa or whoever - most of the people in power in these organisations couldnt organise a piss up in a brewery and more than a few have been in trouble with the law themselves so what qualifies these people to make the decisions needed ? Is there any other business(cos whether we all like it or not football is now a business) where potential owners would have to be veted ? Would the people who oppose usmanov be appeased if their efforts at keeping him out succeeded or would they then turn their focus to opposing kroenke or whoever ?

Sorry if I have gone slightly off track here or appear to not doing my bit but sometimes things that start out with a simple objective can get taken over and all of a sudden incorporate many issues. I am totally behind any efforts to repel usmanov but like was stated above I do wonder if fan opposition will make any difference at the end of the day.

Wayno · Post by **Wayno** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:36 am

I like this forum because most of it is red and red is my favourite colour

Galasso · Post by **Galasso** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:00 am

augie wrote:Unless I am mistaken Rebel & Del ye seem to have taken up the purpose of this post all wrong. I dont think g-n-s wants to know what you value this forum for but rather wants to whip us all up into a frenzy opposing all things usmanov. Me personally I am not against this opposition to usmanov on principle but at the same time I dont want to be grouped in with fans who oppose any potential takeovers by the media. I have already read the headlines saying that Arsenal fans are united in their opposition to any takeover and clearly that has not been my position all summer and is not about to change. I 100% oppose usmanov but am also amused at calls for moves like "suitable owners" tests where any interested bidder would have to be vetoed by the goverment/the fa or whoever - most of the people in power in these organisations couldnt organise a piss up in a brewery and more than a few have been in trouble with the law themselves so what qualifies these people to make the decisions needed ? Is there any other business(cos whether we all like it or not football is now a business) where potential owners would have to be veted ? Would the people who oppose usmanov be appeased if their efforts at keeping him out succeeded or would they then turn their focus to opposing kroenke or whoever ?

Sorry if I have gone slightly off track here or appear to not doing my bit but sometimes things that start out with a simple objective can get taken over and all of a sudden incorporate many issues. I am totally behind any efforts to repel usmanov but like was stated above I do wonder if fan opposition will make any difference at the end of the day.

You're right augie, in terms of the purpose of the thread.

The questions are:

* Are you against Usmanov in principle gaining sole control of the club

* Are you against sole ownership of the club?

* Are you in favour of the current board structure?

On a point of principle, I am against Usmanov. From what I have seen from Hearts and Chelsea - not to mention other owners at the lower levels of English football who have either moved their club (Wimbledon) or tried to sell their ground from under their feet (Wrexham), I am against sole ownership of the club. Of course, there is nothing to stop a board behaving badly but the point is that there is at least some form of democratic decision making.

I believe the AST are against Usmanov if he takes over Arsenal with the manu debt model and with taking dividends out of the club. With the cost of the shares as it stands, this must be higly likely. Is this what we want compared to what we are doing now?

I am in favour of the current board structure - not necessarily who is on it. It provides stability in a world that needs some. I wasn't happy to move from Highbury to the souless bowl that we have now but I recognise why we did it. Am I happy to be paying the highest prices in Europe? No. But unfortunately, we can't square every circle neatly now. Prices won't go down with a new owner who sees the club as an investment.

And maybe augie this Usmanov guy just crosses the line in what some people are prepared to accept. I agree the government are in no position to judge fit and proper persons, and don't mention the FA - but we are not a business like any other. This is the only business that I will stay with forever, so things like this do matter.

Finally, I wish people would stop making this out to be a "you hate this guy, so you must love the other" type of scenario. I don't agree with how the board have conducted themselves over my lifetime of watching the Arsenal, but sometimes you just have to choose the best of the worst - the British government offered De Valera complete Irish soveriegnty during WWII in return for their support. Do you think they would have done this under any other circumstances. They just saw the need to fend off the worst and would make alliances to do so.

And if you can't judge Usmanov yet, just try to use some examples from football history and see if you want to take that RISK.

TheOne2Smooth · Post by **TheOne2Smooth** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:03 am

I like this forum because its like a nuthouse and my split personality and I fit right in. NO WE DONT! yes we do!

Post by **REB** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:14 am

augie wrote:Unless I am mistaken Rebel & Del ye seem to have taken up the purpose of this post all wrong. I dont think g-n-s wants to know what you value this forum for but rather wants to whip us all up into a frenzy opposing all things usmanov. Me personally I am not against this opposition to usmanov on principle but at the same time I dont want to be grouped in with fans who oppose any potential takeovers by the media. I have already read the headlines saying that Arsenal fans are united in their opposition to any takeover and clearly that has not been my position all summer and is not about to change. I 100% oppose usmanov but am also amused at calls for moves like "suitable owners" tests where any interested bidder would have to be vetoed by the goverment/the fa or whoever - most of the people in power in these organisations couldnt organise a piss up in a brewery and more than a few have been in trouble with the law themselves so what qualifies these people to make the decisions needed ? Is there any other business(cos whether we all like it or not football is now a business) where potential owners would have to be veted ? Would the people who oppose usmanov be appeased if their efforts at keeping him out succeeded or would they then turn their focus to opposing kroenke or whoever ?

Sorry if I have gone slightly off track here or appear to not doing my bit but sometimes things that start out with a simple objective can get taken over and all of a sudden incorporate many issues. I am totally behind any efforts to repel usmanov but like was stated above I do wonder if fan opposition will make any difference at the end of the day.

i understood the thread augie i just couldnt be arsed to get into another anti usmanov debate,, but dont you love the currant boards love of the
fans,, last couple of seasons we couldnt get a word from them and now they love us all

augie · Post by **augie** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:59 am

I agree almost totally with you galasso but I do have some questions or points.

You say that ast are against any usmanov takeover if it is structured in a glazier style way but does this mean that if the deal wasnt financed in this way that they wouldnt oppose it ? Being honest I dont keep up with ast news over here so I really do not know of their stance. I believe I am opposed to usmanov regardless of how he would buy the club but it would make it easier to oppose if he was looking to borrow heavy.

I too would prefer an ownership structure like we have now but would also like to see a drastic overhaul in personel. It amuses me when I read about how dear it will be to be a fan if usmanov takes over cos it aint cheap now and every season for years the Gooner has been full of stories of fans complaining about increased ticket prices and how some have had to give up going because of it. As I said before, to the suits and financial world it general, Arsenal FC is a business and while it may have emotional ties for us the fans to everybody else inc the current board it is about Â£Â£.

As regards alliances made to repel "the enemy" some would say, from an irish point of view anyway, that such an alliance doesnt prove to be either successful or accepted by the masses in the long run anyway.

augie · Post by **augie** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:06 am

totally sympathise with your position rebel. I keep saying that I am not going to get drawn back into the usmanov or takeovers in general debate yet here I am again. I said a few days ago that I just want it sorted now one way or another cos all the while this is going on we will have the different factions trying to enlist us all in the battle. Like Gus said before its all getting a bit old now and to a large degree I cant be arsed. At the end of the day my opinion wont count for shit

Galasso · Post by **Galasso** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:15 am

augie wrote:I agree almost totally with you galasso but I do have some questions or points.

You say that ast are against any usmanov takeover if it is structured in a glazier style way but does this mean that if the deal wasnt financed in this way that they wouldnt oppose it ? Being honest I dont keep up with ast news over here so I really do not know of their stance. I believe I am opposed to usmanov regardless of how he would buy the club but it would make it easier to oppose if he was looking to borrow heavy.

I too would prefer an ownership structure like we have now but would also like to see a drastic overhaul in personel. It amuses me when I read about how dear it will be to be a fan if usmanov takes over cos it aint cheap now and every season for years the Gooner has been full of stories of fans complaining about increased ticket prices and how some have had to give up going because of it. As I said before, to the suits and financial world it general, Arsenal FC is a business and while it may have emotional ties for us the fans to everybody else inc the current board it is about Â£Â£.

As regards alliances made to repel "the enemy" some would say, from an irish point of view anyway, that such an alliance doesnt prove to be either successful or accepted by the masses in the long run anyway.

Augie

Regarding, AST - that came from a statement they made and is available on their website. I don't know if they have a position in principle - I think it would be more difficult for them to take a position on a moral or value stance.

I agree regarding the current board - but an overhaul of the board structure is nigh on impossible when what is presented is the possibility of sole ownership - as you say, it's a business for these people and it's an attractive one at the moment.

And with regards to alliances, yes, they often present more problems in the future. It's just that if we can't get exactly what everyone would agree is a stable format for the club, then to fend off the worst possible scenario, one has to give something to another party (Board and Kroenke - a seat on the board?) I'm not advocating this, just this is maybe what they are thinking.