Racist?

[MK Gould]

I've always been proud that racism has never been a big thing at Arsenal - not even in the 70's! That we supported Davis, Rocastle, Henry, Wright etc etc, without seeming to even notice their colour. But, much more than that, there has always been a mixture of nationalities/colours/religions on the terraces/seats. We had Jenkins, but we also had Denton....!!! And my best mate who I go to matches with is half Indian. So why do I (or maybe that should be "did I") feel so comfortable referring to Spuds as ****? Some of the references in the past to gas chambers etc were bang out of order (as West Ham will find to their cost after last weekends incidents!), but now that even Spuds refer to themselves as the **** Army does this stop it being offensive? Arsenal have a large Jewish support (probably more than Spuds....?). How do they feel about it?

[foxweasel]

Too big a subject to cover here but at least it made me sign up to Online Gooner after days faffing around.
It probably depends on who you are - Missy Elliott and Snoop Dog can sing the N word, but they get stick from black people too. I am Jewish and nearly all my family support or supported the other North London team - I am the black sheep as a life long Arsenal supporter. But the word "****" is always seen as an insult by all the Jewish people I know, and if used in fun against themselves it is "Yiddle" - never ****. Centuries of anti-semitism and persecution make "****" a bigger issue than calling Cardiff/Swansea etc "sheep-shaggers" (which they seem rather proud to be!)

[Romana]

My grandad was Jewish but I have never followed the religion myself. I personally don't find it offensive wether it is uttered from a Jewish mouth or otherwise. This is all part of football, its like saying to gays think its is homophobic to say all the things we do to Ashley Cole. If you don't like something or someone one you will find and use anything you can to try and piss them off, if you don't like it then maybe football isn't the right thing for you

[tenementfunster5]

I think maybe the word should be considered in context. When sung about Totteringham fans it is because of their football allegiance and not to do with religion. Massive issue with plenty of opinions this is just mine.

[dtjenkins]

I have never personally witnessed racism at Arsenal. Homophobia? Well we do get on Cashley case but I think it is a way to vent our anger rather than being homophobic. Maybe not. But the **** debate is different. I have friends who support Spurs and they refer to themselves as **** Army. It is not racist or anti semetic just what we call them. I know Jewish Arsenal and Spurs fans and they say it. If we said things like Jewish this or Jewis that then thats different. As for the holocaust, Hitler and gas chamber remarks I've heard sang towards Spurs fans that is just disgusting.

[Robsy]

I also have friends who support Spurs and refer to themselves as '**** Army' - some are Jewish, some aren't. It isn't racist or anti-semetic just what they call themselves. I know Jewish Arsenal supporters and they say it.

I guess this thread was only started after an article in the papers yesterday about Sp*rs have a debate with their fans about the whole issue. I think in the article it suggested that Sp*rs recognised a situation where they couldn't complain about opposition fans being anti-semitic, when their own fans were effectively also taking part in it.

[N13Gooner]

Can one of the Jewish Arsenal fans explain to me if the word '****' has any connotations attached to it?

For example, the 'N' word has a history of being used by slavemasters during the transatlantic slave era.

'Paki', from what I can see, is an abbreviation of Pakistani - so it does not have such strong connotations attached to it although you will find many racists calling anyone with a browner shade of skin a 'Paki'.

[Cesc is God]

Denton....!!!

What a legend he was! Does he still go up there?

[gunner67]

Vieira wrote in his biography how he felt that London was such a multicultural city and because of that a very tolerant place. He went on to say that Arsenal weren't racist; if they had been then he would not have been the first Black Captain at the club. The "Y"and "N" words are not words that I would ever use as I believe that they are disrespectful and usually used in a derogatory way. Same goes for the term "Paki". It's very good to see people of all races at Emirates and I feel very proud to be an Arsenal supporter because of this.

[MK Gould]

Denton....!!!

What a legend he was! Does he still go up there?

Don't know. Haven't seen him for years, but then I don't go as much as I used to so he may still be around. Funny that you should pick up on Denton when we're playing away to Villa tomorrow. Remember being there once and seeing a gap open up at the top of the Holt End Terrace. Could see a small group moving down through the parting crowd towards the front - headed by a large black guy making the motions of someone swimming front crawl. No prize for guessing who! They were then led round the pitch and put in with the rest of the gooners! Not PC these days - thank god - but a funny memory all the same.....

[exiled in notts]

Going off the topic slightly and I know this one's probably been done to death, but how this for racism:

A linesman can't tell the difference between 2 completely dissimilar black blokes at ten paces and so gets an innocent player sent off. I thought the days of "they all look alike to me" were long gone, but after the Carling Cup Final, they're clearly not. No doubt the linesman involved counted this as a good days work and went home to enjoy his boxed set of "Love Thy Neighbour" DVDs.

[MK Gould]

....and then a Manager tells a referee that he is the "son of a whore", but he says it in a foreign language so gets away with it! Can someone translate "10 men went to bed...." into Portuguese?