Takeover of club - Imminent?

[olgitgooner]

Yeh, good post, Augie. Short and sweet. As ever.

You make good points about lack of progress, etc.

But the bottom line, for me, is that I don't want any one person having total ownership of Arsenal. It's just too dangerous.

Back to the Man Utd model, lets not forget that they had loads of money BEFORE Glazer took over. That money served them very well. It could be argued that they would be able to replace Ladyboy and Tevez if Glazer had never arrived. They now have an ageing team which we could easily have beaten recently.

Much the same thing at Liverpool. The Yanks have run off with a lot of money. Put the club into the same level of debt as us. But without a new stadium.

Different scenario at Chelsea. They purchased their silverware with all those rubles. But the owner was never driven by a profit motive. Just power. An arrogant club with no principles. Their dirty dealings have caught up with them. Ibramovich will now be sorely pissed off. Not a man used to being told what he can and can't do. He might even call in his massive personal loan to Chelsea. Just to prove a point to FIFA.

Single ownership of Arsenal is a massive no no to me.

Even if it brought in short term improvements on the trophy front.

Blimey, this is a really long post by my standards. I've been Augiefied!!

[jensenscores]

Yeh, good post, Augie. Short and sweet. As ever.

You make good points about lack of progress, etc.

But the bottom line, for me, is that I don't want any one person having total ownership of Arsenal. It's just too dangerous.

Back to the Man Utd model, lets not forget that they had loads of money BEFORE Glazer took over. That money served them very well. It could be argued that they would be able to replace Ladyboy and Tevez if Glazer had never arrived. They now have an ageing team which we could easily have beaten recently.

Much the same thing at Liverpool. The Yanks have run off with a lot of money. Put the club into the same level of debt as us. But without a new stadium.

Different scenario at Chelsea. They purchased their silverware with all those rubles. But the owner was never driven by a profit motive. Just power. An arrogant club with no principles. Their dirty dealings have caught up with them. Ibramovich will now be sorely pissed off. Not a man used to being told what he can and can't do. He might even call in his massive personal loan to Chelsea. Just to prove a point to FIFA.

Single ownership of Arsenal is a massive no no to me.

Even if it brought in short term improvements on the trophy front.

Blimey, this is a really long post by my standards. I've been Augiefied!!

Couldn't have put it better myself.

If this goes through we will be in the hands of another unscrupulous businessman who doesn't have the best interests of the club at heart.

They appease the fans by promising trophies and success in the short-term but long-term it is an unhealthy postion for th clib to be in. If he can just hold out a bit longer I've got my fingers crossed that it will all go t**s up at Liverpool Chelsea and United because of their ownership troubles and we will be ready to step in.

[Robsy]

Anyway oldgit so far you, like many others, are putting forward reasons against people interested in taking over rather than putting up positive arguements for the current board in their own right. It appears that the only thing making the board look half decent right now is the comparison with usmanov cos if he wasnt hovering in the background I feel that they would be getting an awful lot more grief than they currently are

...okay everything has moved on a little since I was on yesterday. Anyway here are my arguments FOR the current board.

1. I don't think the club has moved backwards on either the playing side OR commercial side. On the playing side it was the board who agreed to give Wenger total control over who he buys and what he spends. He's always maintained this and so have the board, it was one of his driving reasons for joining Arsenal in the first place. Therefore, I buy into Wenger's idea of creating teams rather than just buying them, I agree with his youth policy and the fact that he is prepared to give players a chance, rather than just dropping them after a couple of poor performances. I am frustrated that we haven't won anything for 4 years, but I recognise the fact that we've been close. So I don't think we're too far away from winning something under Wenger's guidance. It is THIS board that have allowed Wenger the time and space to create his teams and give him the support he needs. On the commercial side we are nothing but a complete qualified success. More people at the matches, more shirts being sold, better matchday experience (for me it's mainly just a comfy wider seat, but it's better than the old Highbury ones that would cut the blood off!) Financially we are in better shape...this is why people like Usa & Kron what in.

2. How short people's memories are...does anyone else remember someone DD introduced to the club. Someone who DD thought would cement DD's own place at the club (which he did and which also meant DD didn't have to use his own money.) Someone who could become Chairman & stand up to the H-W stewardship...yes, you're right, step forward DANNY FISZMAN . But the sorry, sad part of the tale is that it has a very similiar outcome to more recent events...Danny & DD fell out. DD wanted to rent Wembley , while Danny wanted us to build a new home . Danny won, because Danny had the money. I also happen to think Danny made the right decision and should be appluaded for it. Now, more recently DD did exactly the same thing again, he brought in someone who had money and could stand up to the current board and yet, once again, the alliance was short lived...for me the current board are trying to do the best by a decision that they made in good faith, the decision to build the new stadium. But DD wants to spoil the party, DD doesn't like the board and he wants other people in...but for me it was THIS BOARD who have given the club the opportunity to self-generate the funds required to launch Arsenal properly into the G14 (I know we're part of it, but financially we've been a small player, now we can punch our weight.)

3. Kron has a proven record of sports management and I would favour his involvement over anyone else's...BUT THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THE CURRENT BOARD HAVE DONE! Kron is now part of the board, they have finally recognised how he could be an assest to the club and have brought him into the 'inner circle'. So, like a mature, sensible business they took time to assess the situation and then acted to bring him Kron onboard properly. Yes, the press had a few headlines about the board wanting to freeze him out, maybe they just wanted to see how serious he was and when he proved it by buying more shares, they invited him in. For me the board have acted as any city business would.

4. My club give me more and I appreciate that. So, I have my comfy seat, if I wanted to spend my money on the beer and food I could ( on this point I agree that it really is too expensive), every year I get my members pack, which I love. I never asked for it, but I get it. I get invited to members' days and I have never yet failed to get an away ticket with my 10+ / 15+ credits. I don't feel ripped off, yes we could win more trophies, but this is football and sometimes thing's don't pan out as you expect, I don't blame the board for this.

5. I don't think the stewardship of a club equates to that of a player or manager. I don't think they are in the same category. I think if you can't see that a different approach to loyalty is required from the men at the top than from the cogs at the bottom (the players) then I pity you. People moan about the shite support/singing from the stands, but by your rationale it doesn't matter if the person isn't singing or supporting, in fact by your rationale he could actually be the supporter of another club, but as long as he's paying, then that's okay. Not for me. I want the men at the top to care, I want them to feel affinity with the supporters, I want them to hurt when we lose and I don't think a someone who has already declared themselves a Manwho suipporter can do that at Arsenal. To that person it would be more like a rich man's toy to show off when everything is going well and ignore when it isn't. Having said all that, maybe Kron would have more of an understanding because of his background.

6. Now you understand that I don't think the club is broke, then maybe you'll understand that I don't think we have something that requires fixing just yet. If there were to be any changes soon, then mine would be replacing the manager. Before we destroy the board because of the lack of success, we should change the manager.

Okay...think that should do! I think this is my longest post ever!

C'MON ARSENAL

[Percy Dalton]

So Jensenscores you believe that it is a good thing that Arsenal's policy for success depends wholly on other clubs downfalls?

What a wonderful business model that is.



Also, you are very dismissive to Man City and Tottingham, two clubs who are investing in their playing sides heavily.

[g88ner]

What bugs me, is that we can all debate the whole is money available?? issue until the cows come home, and some (like Augie) will point out that we've stagnated, and others (like myself) would suggest that there is a bigger picture here, and the long term future is brighter even if, short term, we have to tighten our belt buckles a little.

But, it's all pointless because the only people who know whether we're in trouble, or what the long term goals are ARE SAYING FUCK ALL!

The board were happy to wax lyrical about our stadium move BEFORE it was built are now worryingly quiet now that we're over 2 years in residence at the Grove!.... but WHY???

The board told us the move would help us compete financially, and purchase bigger, better players.... but where has all that bullish talk gone?? - we're still feeding off the scraps as we always have done, but this is a vision that the board failed to mention, so has something gone drastically wrong???

Some say a takeover would be bad, but is anything worse that the situation we face now?? - we have one Uzbeki shareholder who the board won't recognise ... another one based in Colorado ... another one in Switzerland who is selling his shares at an alarming rate ... another one who is willing to sell her stake after being forced out ... and another one who talks the talks even though he's got less than a 1% stake! .. and NOT ONE OF THEM IS TELLING US ANYTHING ANYMORE!

We don't have a clue whether this lack of money is temporary or long term, do we?? and, if our self sufficient model fails to garnish enough funds to compete with the top, top clubs then, with this board, WE ARE FUCKED because none of them have a history of dipping into their own pockets.

THE SILENCE FROM THE CLUB IS DEAFENING... WE CANNOT COMPETE AT THE MOMENT, NOR IN THE NEAR FUTURE. IF WE COULD, THEY WOULD SURELY HAVE SAID!

I'm quite happy to sit this period out IF we have a cash rich, stable future to look forward to, but they've stopped selling us that dream which suggests to me that they're not as confident any more.

And if the future isn't as rosey as they suggested, then we should be looking for an invester, and every season that goes by the biggest, richest investers are taking over our rivals... such as Chelsea and Citeh. Who's next, Sp*rs?? and if so, how much longer can we accept our financial situation?

[augie]

Robsy your posts are getting as long as mine Sort it out cos boring others into submission is my policy and I dont appreciate copycats

Anyway robsy I am only going to argue with you now over the team stagnating arguement. Can you honestly tell me that this current team would defeat any of the previous 2 generation wenger teams ? All of the wenger highbury teams would kick this teams arsde all over the park and probably at their ease too This isnt anything to do with 4 years without a trophy but has to do with progress and hand on heart we aint making any real progress. In the last few years we have come close once (2 seasons ago) and then went on to sell the spine of our team without replacing them. Last season we played nobody of any note in the champs lge and fa cup until we got to the semi's and were badly shown up in all 3 games to the extent of how far away we really are
Wengers youth team policy is very admirable but really all it has done has turned us into the modern version of ajax where we develop players to sell them to other clubs. Young players want to join us cos they know that they will get to play and develop but as soon as they reach that point they want away cos they know that we aint going to win anything and are a club that is spinning our wheels as we continue on this vicious circle

[Percy Dalton]

G88ner makes some very good points.

I find it amazing that people are prepared to show much trust in a group of people who have lied to us and refused to give us the full facts with regards to the state of the club. At the same time they completely dismiss someone who has the bollocks to invest in the club with his own money.

I can understand peoples fears with regards to a takeover but I do not understand the hate of Usmanov. What has the guy done to deserve this? I also remember many spouting the same shit towards Kroenke when the club stated that he was "not our sort" but he is now accepted once the club backtracked.

What I also don't understand is if this self-sustaining business model is the right way to bring success and stability to the club then why are we the only major club doing it? I agree that in an ideal world that would be the best way to go but football is not an ideal world it is a business and the only way businesses grow is with investment.

Many Arasenal supporters are far too in love with the old Bank of England club values and the romance of "doing things the Arsenal way". Whilst wonderful parts of Arsenal history these policies are bno way to take a club forward in the modern world. Times change and we have to change with them if we want to compete on all levels.

Also, why do people have so much faith in the current board when they have created the largest threat to any business, a single point of failure. The Arsene Knows crew trumpet that no other manager could keep on pulling rabbits out of a hat like Wenger does and to a point this maybe true. However, why is a club the size of Arsenal so reliant on one man? What would have happened if Wenger had decided to join Madrid in the summer. how would we survive with our current policies if the lynchpin of thsoe policies is removed.Why is arsenal so relient on Wenger polishing rough diamonds and then selling them on for profit?It is totally farcical to gamble the future of the club on a man that can walk away at any given moment. Yes, he has a contract but what are they worth these days?

Our current state is far from healthy & we still don't know if the financial gamble Arsenal have taken will pay off at all let alone when. How many times were we told that the stadium development would not interfere with investment in the playing squad but now we hear Wenger admitting he has to sell every year and we watch another transfer window go buy with the only target being to make a profit.

So, good old Arsenal hey! How proud we are of our values and doing things the Arsenal way. You won't find the fans being lied to, long-standing board members being stabbed in the back or our prized assetts being sold off at our club will you?

[MM99]

Our current state is far from healthy & we still don't know if the financial gamble Arsenal have taken will pay off at all let alone when. How many times were we told that the stadium development would not interfere with investment in the playing squad but now we hear Wenger admitting he has to sell every year and we watch another transfer window go buy with the only target being to make a profit.

So, good old Arsenal hey! How proud we are of our values and doing things the Arsenal way. You won't find the fans being lied to, long-standing board members being stabbed in the back or our prized assetts being sold off at our club will you?

1. regarding our current state, i would argue that it is healthy considering the £3.5m profit we're making each game....
2.regarding the when, i would imagine it would be once the hefty stadium loans are paid off, as then all money generated would be at the clubs expense to be re-invested into the club, rather than paid to banks.
3. as for your "How many times were we told that the stadium development would not interfere with investment in the playing squad" i dont ever recall reading the club saying such a thing, i HAVE heard them saying the highbury development programme being said to have no impact, but nothing about the new stadium not having one. even simple common sense tells you that building a new stadium, of such a price, will inevitably have an effect on the finances of the club. if you honestly believed that it wouldnt then with all due respect thats your own fault for being foolish and thinking that.

[TeeCee]

History is littered with failed businesses (sports related or not) that have failed to embrace change. My company is currently making a lot of redundancies, the people who are going are those that don't want change, they like the way things are now. Wengers view of being self-sustainable is admirable, it really is, but it doesn't and won't work because EVERYONE needs to buy in for it to work. It's a bit like having nuclear weapons, let's be all moral and say 'We've got rid of all ours, we're leading the way in peace'........but if no-one else gets rid of theirs you just become an easy target and un-defendable. All that is happening to Arsenal is, our debt is growing all the time because we haven't sold Highbury, the squad is getting weaker because we're having to sell our best players to halt the financial slide and by falling further behind the top teams we're in danger of bringing in less money and not competing at all affecting crowds and merchandise sales not to mention TV appearances. The one thing we have to do is ensure we are competing at the top and we are coming perilously close to dropping out of the top 4. Wengers model will be necessary in another 3 or 4 years because we won't be a CL team and we'll be playing to less than 50k people each week. Times change and circumstances change - if you snooze, you lose. Arsenal need to change.

[12thGooner]

Best thread on here in a long time.

[HIGHBURY GOONER N5]

Its guna happen eventualy it will be a sad day but im prepared for it.

[g88ner]

Its guna happen eventualy it will be a sad day but im prepared for it.

It might not be a sad day, though.

After all, what's so great about the board at the moment?? - they rarely, if EVER, dip into their own pockets when times are hard... Friszman is based in Switzerland and clearly wants out, Lady Nina was booted out, Hill-Wood has next to no shares anymore, and Kroenke is based in Colorado... and Usmanov is our major sharholder, but the board won't give him the time of day. It's a mess and it'll be a great day when we finally have the entire board pulling in the same direction for a change!!!

Obviously, you want to make sure you sell to the right type of person (persumably, Kroenke?) but I'll welcome the day when the boardroom is finally sorted out once and for all.

[12thGooner]

Even though the current lot spend no money on the club itself and just milk it. The very situation implies an excellent business model of a club that lives within its means, there are virtually no other "top" clubs in the prem league, maybe europe that do the same.

any invester that comes in, will immediately pump some cash in for some instant add water success with over priced players getting over inflated wages and afer one season, success or not, were suddenly in debt. You only have to look at manure, chavs, scoucers and maybe soon to be citeh for examples of this.

the current board maybe full of shit but if they were to up and leave and give someone else control, the club in its current state would be fine, selling to someone like fat and orange who is offering what abramovich offer chelsea, oil dude offers citeh is fine as long as they run the club sensibly. but you can't really see that happening can you.

all of you that are thinking that a take over is needed or welcome need to think why are asking for this, are you basing you decision on the sucess of the clubs that have rich owners and spend shit loads on players and wages in relation to the lack of success for ourselves or are you after some proper management of the club, selling off the highbury development and concentrating on the football etc. .


whats the point in having a board that are happy to keep the club afloat and reduce the debt burden and increase the value of their stock all while the club slowly slides down the rankings scale.

but then whats the point in having a board that spend way more than the club make on getting the best players and winning everything season after season.

either option has its down and up sides, although the later has longer term harder to recover consiquences.

rant over

[Rob]

whats the point in having a board that are happy to keep the club afloat and reduce the debt burden and increase the value of their stock all while the club slowly slides down the rankings scale.

but then whats the point in having a board that spend way more than the club make on getting the best players and winning everything season after season.

either option has its down and up sides, although the later has longer term harder to recover consiquences.

That's pretty close to the nub of it, I must say and although I agree with a lot of Augie's points, OG's one about not being in the hands of one solitary individual is compelling - (eggs in one basket and all that !)

I certainly don't want us to start splashing out stupid sums on star names like Man City or Real, because it's just not us.

But I am infuriated at our having to asset strip the squad every year. And before anyone says we don't - WE SODDING WELL DO - what else is selling £40 million in assets and spending only £10 million ???

Before that Hleb, Flamini, Gilberto and Diarra left and before that Henry.

What will happen next May if we have won nothing agin ? And even if we have won something - what are the chances of Fabregas staying ? He and Arshavin are now our only two desirable assests - maybe Sagna if you wanted a quality Right back. But that''s it.

That's the problem with persuing an 'asset strip' policy. Eventually you run out of things to sell. Then what ??

So the current situation just cannot continue. Not least because Fabs departure would surely trigger a fan revolt on a scale even bigger than this seasons non renewal of Season Tickets - more than 10,000 in case you are asking.