As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
augie wrote:Nobody denying that he is doing "a job" mate but what has rightly been pointed out is that (a) he isnt and never will be a great footballer unless the requirements of what is needed to become great has dropped alarmingly (b) he is simply not good enough, strong enough or mobile enough to play alongside cesc in a 4-4-2 formation in the way a PV4 or petit could and there can simply be no denying of that fact.
Interesting point.
Firstly, I'd say that Song has improved so much in such a short period of time that I really wouldn't want to put a ceiling on what he's capable of!
Also, he's still a young lad who is learning his trade, and learning it fast... so, for now, I'm reluctant to bring out the comparisons with world stars such as Petit and Vieira.
Also, I'd agree that, at the moment, 4-3-3 probably suits Song more than a 4-4-2 would... but, that's not necessarily a weakness as a 3 man midfield suited Makelele perfectly, whereas I'm not convinced he would have been as effective alongside Cesc in a 4-4-2 - many will probably disagree, though.
I would say comparisons to the world stars are fair. Especially if we consider Vieira and Petit in a bit of depth.
Vieira proved in pretty much his first game that he had all the attributes required to run the show alone. And in his second full season had a PL and FA Cup winners medal to show for it.
Petit was converted to the role as if I'm not mistaken he was playing CH before we signed him and showed in his first full year he as well could hold the midfield together with little other help.
Song last year was over-run a lot of the time. Teams found that area between Midfield and Defense all too easily. The area he fills very well now in the current formation. Flamini showed the year beofre that even with all the attacking flair a two man mid can be a success.
Number 5 wrote:I would say comparisons to the world stars are fair. Especially if we consider Vieira and Petit in a bit of depth.
Vieira proved in pretty much his first game that he had all the attributes required to run the show alone. And in his second full season had a PL and FA Cup winners medal to show for it.
Petit was converted to the role as if I'm not mistaken he was playing CH before we signed him and showed in his first full year he as well could hold the midfield together with little other help.
Song last year was over-run a lot of the time. Teams found that area between Midfield and Defense all too easily. The area he fills very well now in the current formation. Flamini showed the year beofre that even with all the attacking flair a two man mid can be a success.
Oh, come on Number 5... Vieira was a freak. So what if Song didn't hit the ground running like Vieira did... players like Rooney, Cesc, Messi, Vieira, etc. are exceptions to the rule, whereas most young players have a much longer learning curve before they become top, top players.
As for Petit... the guy was 27-28 when he joined Arsenal, so yes I'd expect him to have a better first season at Arsenal than most, if not all, young players. That's logical.
Song is 22, and has improved expononentially since last season, so comparison with Vieira and Petit should be put to one side until he's fulfilled his potential. After all, where was Gilberto at 22? or Petit for that matter? or Ian Wright? or Drogba?? - point being, players develop at different rates and so comparisons are difficult until they've fully developed and reached their potential.
The top players in world football, the elite players, don't evolve into such players by starting out mediocre working hard and developing into superstars.
You either have it or you don't. Looking at any young protege you can see if they are gonna make it. They may make mistakes be a bit raw and need to develop parts of thier game but they will usually always show enough for you to see that they will make it to the very top of the game.
You do see a lot of players with exceptional potential fail to make the grade for whatever reason, but Song does not possess exceptional potential. He is an adequate player who now has found a scheme that limits his weaknesses from being exposed. If the time comes where he leaves Arsenal it won't be to go be the lynch pin at a European giant.
My Petit comparison wasn't so much based on youth but a newness to the position. He was a centre half by trade, hadn't played much in midfield until Wenger played him there. And he made the fit almost seamlessly. Experience may have helped but just being a good player with better footballing attributes than Song tells me that's why he had better success.
Your final point regarding other players at similar ages I would say the modern world has a lot to factor in. If we use 10 years ago 1999 as one point in time when X player was 22. Were clubs scouting networks as prolific as they are now? Was it so easy to travel the world as it is now? Did the internet exist in almost every house hold?
Today, you can see the goals almost as soon as they go in the net. You can track players careers so much easier.
Not many 22 year olds are going to slip through the net and make a late explosion onto the footballing map. If you show even the slightest hint of potential on a dusty african plain these days, 3 clubs will have agents on the next plane over and be fighting Madonna for the right to bring them to Europe.
Superb game and apart from Diaby thought we played superb. Nice to see King (the most over rated player in the premiership) look like a Sunday league player. Always nice to get one over those *word censored* im gonna enjoy work tomorrow
RVP and Vermaelen top class as usual Was even impressed with Song.
augie wrote:Firstly I have to say that song was fcuking immense today Yes I know he might have only been up against fat huddlestones and I agree with donaldo that he is far from an excellent football but today I thought he was outstanding and I'll just focus on that for now
Diaby on the other hand is a different matter - the guy is absolute pants and it is impossible to justify his selection in the team right now. His passing was shambolic, his tackles were embarrassing and his efforts at times as he strolled around was a disgrace It must be really disheartning for the likes of ramsey who cant get a game ahead of this clown and to the likes of rosicky and arshavin who are always subbed no matter how bad of a game he is having Said it before and will say it again....wenger must be giving this guy games cos he is french cos other than that he aint contributing fcuk all
I have to disagree with all those praising bedtner today - his touch, his passing and his vision and awareness were woeful today before he was subbed and cesc in particular was getting well pissed off at him and let him know it too.
Finally a word of praise for our entire back 4 who were excellent today.
PS FCUK YOU BENTLY YOU RAT FACED c**t & FCUK YOU KEANE YOU PIKEY BASTARD - THERE IS ONLY TEAM IN LONDON AND NEITHER OF YOU c**ts ARE GOOD ENOUGH TO PLAY FOR US :finger:
Pundit of the Week:
Glen Hoddle (SS Ch league) re Arsenal:
“great pretty play, good to watch (when have we heard this before) but they are not clinical enough, they do not score enough when in scoring positionâ€
G88ner can I just say that I originally brought up the comparisons with PV4 & petit cos it was claimed that song is a great footballer and I disagreed by naming just 2 players who actually were great footballers While I have said on many occasions that song has indeed improved I still say that the claim that he is a great footballer is well ott and I also agree with number 5 when he says that the vast majority of the time great footballers stand out at an early age despite weaknesses in their game at that time. I do feel that nowadays there is a tendency to throw around phrases like world class or great footballer way too easily with players who wouldnt be good enough to lace the boots of players who have gone before them and actually were world class or great footballers. Anyway to my mind being decribed as a great footballer suggests what I would call a pure footballer who stands out technically and dictates the game and with all due respect to song his game is based more on destruction that on the creative side of the game although obviously successful teams need both types of players
I would like to make a point on Diaby. I know im going be banging the hed against the wall but here goes anyway. Last year we were saying the same things about Song like we are complaining about Diaby now.
The point I’m trying to make is playing continuously in the side really helped make Song into the player he is right now. And nobody can deny that he’s come up in leaps and bounds.
This is the first time in forever that Diaby has had a continued appearance in the team. He’s gotten injured as soon as he strung together 4 or 5 games. Up until now the team has been carrying Diaby with their performance.
And I think that with his continued presence in the side he will improve as much as Song did over the whole of last season. Nobody can deny that he has a ridiculous amount of skill and ball retention capability at his disposal. It’s just the end product that needs tweaking.
And I think he’ll get better at this over the whole season. He’s got excellent feet for a person of his height and for a team that is very very suspect at set pieces a midfielder with his height and skill is as good as gold. Now I know most of us here are less than pleased with Diaby’s heading but as the season goes on I’m sure he will learn with more game time. Until then I think the team can carry him. And its not that he does everything bad.
He does some really good things that are lost when we reflect on the wrong things that he’s done. I know against the top tier teams like Chelsea and co. we’ll need somebody better in his position but until we play against those teams this lad should be allowed to get game time so that he can improve.
I’m pretty confident that he’ll become as vital as Song is to the team now in a couple of seasons. And we do need some tall players just so we can defend set pieces against route 1 teams and against teams who have players of Crouch’s height
ramon wrote:I would like to make a point on Diaby. I know im going be banging the hed against the wall but here goes anyway. Last year we were saying the same things about Song like we are complaining about Diaby now.
The point I’m trying to make is playing continuously in the side really helped make Song into the player he is right now. And nobody can deny that he’s come up in leaps and bounds.
This is the first time in forever that Diaby has had a continued appearance in the team. He’s gotten injured as soon as he strung together 4 or 5 games. Up until now the team has been carrying Diaby with their performance.
And I think that with his continued presence in the side he will improve as much as Song did over the whole of last season. Nobody can deny that he has a ridiculous amount of skill and ball retention capability at his disposal. It’s just the end product that needs tweaking.
And I think he’ll get better at this over the whole season. He’s got excellent feet for a person of his height and for a team that is very very suspect at set pieces a midfielder with his height and skill is as good as gold. Now I know most of us here are less than pleased with Diaby’s heading but as the season goes on I’m sure he will learn with more game time. Until then I think the team can carry him. And its not that he does everything bad.
He does some really good things that are lost when we reflect on the wrong things that he’s done. I know against the top tier teams like Chelsea and co. we’ll need somebody better in his position but until we play against those teams this lad should be allowed to get game time so that he can improve.
I’m pretty confident that he’ll become as vital as Song is to the team now in a couple of seasons. And we do need some tall players just so we can defend set pieces against route 1 teams and against teams who have players of Crouch’s height
You being who ldb ?? I mean it is well known on here that ramon doesnt post any thoughts of his own and only copies and pastes comments from other sites Cant understand why he aint been fcuked out of here by now but seeing as I dont read what he pastes I couldnt give a fcuk if he stays or goes
Its Up 4 Grabs Now wrote: Just wish I could go back in time & get a ticket, I’d gladly sit out 2 or 3 cheaper games later in the season just to have been there for that one minute.
Had originally planned to give this game a miss due to lack of finances, but was so pleased when I managed to pick up a cheaper block 5 ticket in mid-week. Turned out to be completely worth it for a great result, awesome atmosphere and most of all for that 60 seconds of pure, brilliant mayhem.
thought we played superb. Nice to see King (the most over rated player in the premiership) look like a Sunday league player. Always nice to get one over those *word censored* im gonna enjoy work tomorrow 
Was even impressed with Song.
It must be really disheartning for the likes of ramsey who cant get a game ahead of this clown and to the likes of rosicky and arshavin who are always subbed no matter how bad of a game he is having 
