Guus Hiddink Please

[REB]

um.. the cup winners cup was the name previously given to the uefa cup..so it's the same as the fucking Europa league you tit!

In Arsene I trust

no it wasnt, it was a complete different competition

[Vlad III]

I think you will find that the European trophy you talk of was the Cup winners cup. A trophy even worse than the Europa league.

you couldn't make this shit up

You've made yourself look a right idiot there, mate

Before the Champions League was formed, all 3 European competitions were taken very seriously, and winning the Cup Winners Cup WAS a big deal, even if you are trying to suggest otherwise.

For your information, the UEFA Cup used to be very presitgious too... as was the FA Cup, and even the League Cup! - now, because of money, it's all about 2 tournaments, and I think that's very sad

All I'm saying is show some respect for what we've won in the past, and don't discredit what were fine achievements at the time!

If you even read my posts, you would see that I do respect those achievements. Despite this, there is no escaping the fact that this tournament was not of a high standard. Just look at the scores in the first 2 rounds of the tournament. If you can be bothered to check your facts instead of throwing out pathetic insults you will find that some of the teams were probably no better than division 2 sides.

I'd make sure you check your facts before calling people idiots, it might come back to bite you!

[REB]

vlad

you can same the same now about the cl.. even the groups stages have thrown up some hammerings,,
thats football
and uefa trying to be nice to countries who vote them in by letting small clubs into it,

[g88ner]

I'd make sure you check your facts before calling people idiots, it might come back to bite you!

Eh??

What extra facts did I need?? - you attempted to ridicule our achievement back in '94 of winning the CWC by comparing it to a competition that even Sp*rs and Villa turn their noses up at.

I'm sure you have your reasons for attempting to discredit our achievement (and it WAS an achievement!) but I can't see, as an Arsenal fan, why you would do so. It was a great year for Arsenal, and one I look back on with great fondness. Criticise it all you want, but I totally disagree with you.

We're in a much better position in world football now, and it's great credit to Wenger that we only see "success" as a title win or winning the European Cup, but that doesn't mean everything pre-Wenger, other than title wins, wasn't a big achievement, and neither should it be ridiculed like you chose to do so.

[Vlad III]

[quote="jtvercetti27"]um.. the cup winners cup was the name previously given to the uefa cup..so it's the same as the fucking Europa league you tit!

In Arsene I trust [/quote="jtvercetti27"]

I'm fairly sure that you have just made a much bigger tit of yourself than I ever could.

I can't be arsed to debate the merits of the cup winners cup with people if they are too dense to do a little research. The champions league now would not have a round of games with the aggregate scores of: 5-1, 6-1, 7-0, 0-7, 8-3, 11-1, 5-1, 5-0 and 6-1. Thats just the first round. Some of those teams then went on to get hammered 10-0 and 6-2 in the second round. Yes there are lopsided games in the champions league, but nowhere near that extent.

[g88ner]

I can't be arsed to debate the merits of the cup winners cup with people if they are too dense to do a little research. The champions league now would not have a round of games with the aggregate scores of: 5-1, 6-1, 7-0, 0-7, 8-3, 11-1, 5-1, 5-0 and 6-1. Thats just the first round. Some of those teams then went on to get hammered 10-0 and 6-2 in the second round. Yes there are lopsided games in the champions league, but nowhere near that extent.

Ok, fine... discredit the CWC if you like.

Now, why don't you do some research into the early rounds of the European Cup in the 60's-80's.... any lopsided games??? and if so, would you like to discredit Liverpool, Real Madrid, AC Milan, Celtic, ManUre and Forests European Cup wins whilst you're at it???

Pick a few years at random in the European Cup and you'll find many, many lopsided early round scores (like Arsenal 6-2 Vienna; Red Star 8-0; Marseille 10-0, etc...

Now who were you calling "dense" for not doing their research??? or would you like to do the sensible thing and backtrack and change your argument???

[marcengels]

Rebel Gooner, I loved winning that trophy! I had a framed picture on my wall of the winning team when I was younger and I cried like a baby the next year when we lost in the final. I am proud we won that trophy, but I just took another look and the standard especially in the first 3 rounds was unbelieveably poor.

I'm not trying to pick a fight either, I just despair at all the negativity and not being able to say anything possible without being told its not Arsene FC. I guess I'm just a mega rose tinter and proud

I guess you should find out, fact wise Vlad, where we were seeded in the 94 cwc in respect of the other quarter finalists. And where the other quarter finalists finished in their respective leagues that season.

Maybe in the perspective of that time, in that competition, you won't be so quick to judge it badly against other competitions. After all, the first rounds of the CL aren't too hot either. And Alkmaar/Liege? About the standard of Odense.

As for crying like a baby at a football defeat - When you grow up, you might find that there are things actually worth crying about.

[Bergkamp-Genius]

All silverware was important then, including the league cup, winning the CWC meant a lot at that time, as has been said already its only since the expansion of the CL that the UEFA CWC and league cup have been diminished in importance.
You say you were at the Sampdoria game i'm finding that hard to believe unless of course you were just a kid because if you were of any kind of age you would have been aware how important that game was and how important winning that cup was then, not to mention the FA and league cup double which was a massive achievement.
I keep hearing these belittling opinions regarding the cups pre wenger they almost always come from those who either were not interested in football pre wenger or were too young to understand it, cos anyone who was old enough or interested enough will tell you winning those cups were great moments in Arsenals history as they were for any other club that won them in those days..

[marcengels]

All silverware was important then, including the league cup, winning the CWC meant a lot at that time, as has been said already its only since the expansion of the CL that the UEFA CWC and league cup have been diminished in importance.
You say you were at the Sampdoria game i'm finding that hard to believe unless of course you were just a kid because if you were of any kind of age you would have been aware how important that game was and how important winning that cup was then, not to mention the FA and league cup double which was a massive achievement.
I keep hearing these belittling opinions regarding the cups pre wenger they almost always come from those who either were not interested in football pre wenger or were too young to understand it, cos anyone who was old enough or interested enough will tell you winning those cups were great moments in Arsenals history as they were for any other club that won them in those days..

Exactly BG, but even wider than that if you look at how the other other teams in the CWC94 did in their respective leagues, you would find it hard to come up with a difference between that and the CL. Also, we were one of the lowest seeds in the QF of that year.

The standard of that year was high.

[Vlad III]

Rebel Gooner, I loved winning that trophy! I had a framed picture on my wall of the winning team when I was younger and I cried like a baby the next year when we lost in the final. I am proud we won that trophy, but I just took another look and the standard especially in the first 3 rounds was unbelieveably poor.

I'm not trying to pick a fight either, I just despair at all the negativity and not being able to say anything possible without being told its not Arsene FC. I guess I'm just a mega rose tinter and proud

I guess you should find out, fact wise Vlad, where we were seeded in the 94 cwc in respect of the other quarter finalists. And where the other quarter finalists finished in their respective leagues that season.

Maybe in the perspective of that time, in that competition, you won't be so quick to judge it badly against other competitions. After all, the first rounds of the CL aren't too hot either. And Alkmaar/Liege? About the standard of Odense.

As for crying like a baby at a football defeat - When you grow up, you might find that there are things actually worth crying about.

I was 8 years old. Sorry big man, I can only dream of being as manly as you

What does where we were seeded have to do with the quality of the tournament? Keep deluding yourself that we played the second coming of Brazil 1970 in every round and that the tournament is as good as todays champions league. Your wrong, but aslong as your happy and can make false sweeping statements on the internet, good for you!

I could mention that the team we beat in the final were so good they finished 5th in serie A, but that would shatter your myth, so I won't.

[Vlad III]

What is difficult to understand about the difference between something being important and something being a high standard?

To a Walsall fan the Johnstones paint trophy may be important. Does that mean that the quality is also high? No, it doesn't. So just because I thought the CWC was important doesn't also mean I have to think that it was a top notch competition.

What makes me laugh, is that people can slag off the current team till the cows come home, yet I mention the CWC wasn't gold standard and I'm slaughtered!

[Bergkamp-Genius]

All silverware was important then, including the league cup, winning the CWC meant a lot at that time, as has been said already its only since the expansion of the CL that the UEFA CWC and league cup have been diminished in importance.
You say you were at the Sampdoria game i'm finding that hard to believe unless of course you were just a kid because if you were of any kind of age you would have been aware how important that game was and how important winning that cup was then, not to mention the FA and league cup double which was a massive achievement.
I keep hearing these belittling opinions regarding the cups pre wenger they almost always come from those who either were not interested in football pre wenger or were too young to understand it, cos anyone who was old enough or interested enough will tell you winning those cups were great moments in Arsenals history as they were for any other club that won them in those days..

Exactly BG, but even wider than that if you look at how the other other teams in the CWC94 did in their respective leagues, you would find it hard to come up with a difference between that and the CL. Also, we were one of the lowest seeds in the QF of that year.

The standard of that year was high.

As i said Marc i can only think that anyone who thinks those cups were pony then, wasn't old enough to know and is applying their knowledge of how it is now to then and it doesn't apply..

[franksav63]

What is difficult to understand about the difference between something being important and something being a high standard?

To a Walsall fan the Johnstones paint trophy may be important. Does that mean that the quality is also high? No, it doesn't. So just because I thought the CWC was important doesn't also mean I have to think that it was a top notch competition.

What makes me laugh, is that people can slag off the current team till the cows come home, yet I mention the CWC wasn't gold standard and I'm slaughtered!

Hmmm... I think that Berger is better imo..

[marcengels]

Rebel Gooner, I loved winning that trophy! I had a framed picture on my wall of the winning team when I was younger and I cried like a baby the next year when we lost in the final. I am proud we won that trophy, but I just took another look and the standard especially in the first 3 rounds was unbelieveably poor.

I'm not trying to pick a fight either, I just despair at all the negativity and not being able to say anything possible without being told its not Arsene FC. I guess I'm just a mega rose tinter and proud

I guess you should find out, fact wise Vlad, where we were seeded in the 94 cwc in respect of the other quarter finalists. And where the other quarter finalists finished in their respective leagues that season.

Maybe in the perspective of that time, in that competition, you won't be so quick to judge it badly against other competitions. After all, the first rounds of the CL aren't too hot either. And Alkmaar/Liege? About the standard of Odense.

As for crying like a baby at a football defeat - When you grow up, you might find that there are things actually worth crying about.

I was 8 years old. Sorry big man, I can only dream of being as manly as you

What does where we were seeded have to do with the quality of the tournament? Keep deluding yourself that we played the second coming of Brazil 1970 in every round and that the tournament is as good as todays champions league. Your wrong, but aslong as your happy and can make false sweeping statements on the internet, good for you!

I could mention that the team we beat in the final were so good they finished 5th in serie A, but that would shatter your myth, so I won't.

You ask for people to deal in facts but you don't produce any yourself. Where are my false sweeping statements.

We had one of the lowest placed league position out of any of the teams in the quarter final. Many of those teams finished in the top four, meaning these days (you know, your era ) would be Champions League teams. The team we beat in the semi had one of the best players in the world at the time - Who was it young man? And Parma, generally recognised at that time as a challenger in Italy, moreso than us in Englans
d. Finally, Mr Sweeping statements, we were the 2nd lowest seeds to get through to the QF.

In our perspective, or any wider perspective, it was a great achievement for the club, and a strong competition. Remember, and read this slowly if you have to , those team who finishd second (Eg: CL teams now) would go into the CWC if they qualified rather than the UEFA cup.

Did I say that it was the second coming of Brazil or close. No, so stop lying. For someone so wrong, I can go into a lot of facts. I can carry on to, but that would put you down so I'll stop now.

It was a strong competition in that year. Fact. It was important. Fact. OK?

[g88ner]

What is difficult to understand about the difference between something being important and something being a high standard?

To a Walsall fan the Johnstones paint trophy may be important. Does that mean that the quality is also high? No, it doesn't. So just because I thought the CWC was important doesn't also mean I have to think that it was a top notch competition.

What happened to your argument about the CWC having lots of lopsided results?? - I assume you checked the European Cup results as I suggested?? after all, you did say WE were dense for not doing our research, didn't you??

Keep digging Vlad... you're doing a great job mate

What makes me laugh, is that people can slag off the current team till the cows come home, yet I mention the CWC wasn't gold standard and I'm slaughtered!

Of course you're slaughtered... what did you expect???

Anyway,why can't you have great respect for Wenger AND our past achievements.... I don't see why it's an either or situation - I didn't realise some fans are so polarised that they can't appreciate BOTH pre-Wenger, and the Wenger era. After all, it's all part of the rich history that makes up this wonderful football club!