Wenger has got to go!

Vlad III · Post by **Vlad III** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:20 pm

I Hate Hleb wrote:
AFCWozza wrote:Can I remind you that 2004 apart, most of that success was built on the back of a great defence - which played a prominent part in Arsenal success in the years you earlier disparaged; and players bought by other managers?

How was this great defence getting on in the 5 years previous to Wenger? Many league titles? Just interested like...

AFCWozza · Post by **AFCWozza** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:24 pm

Now I agree by and large with the rest of what you wrote but I question your desire for him to stay for life. What, under any circumstances? Shocked Confused Whilst I do admire your loyalty to the cause and all that, I do wonder whether you are one of those younger gooners that think Arsenal only became famous under Wenger and that AFC actually stands for Arsene Football Club?

Just because im not old enough to have witnessed Arsenal's long and illustrious history that doesnt mean im oblivious to it, of corse im not stupid enough to believe Arsenal only became famous under Wenger, we have fantastic history with the Herbert Chapman years, Bertie Mee's double winning season in 71 beating Liverpool in the FA Cup Final, the fantastic night at Anfield that sends shivers down my spine every time i watch it..

"Thomas, charging through the midfield, Thomas, its up for grabs now... THOMAS"

I just believe in Wenger, and yes it may come across a bit strong, and a bit narrow minded, but i find it hard to put in words in a way in which both sides can understand. I can see why there would be frustration, and i can see why people would want wenger to go, but.. for me.. he's got to stay.

There are some great posts on here lately a great read!

augie · Post by **augie** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:24 pm

So you think 9 seasons is a reasonable amount of time to give a manager do you ?

Do you go to many matches mate ? I am only asking cos I fail to see how any fan paying top whack to attend these matches can be expected to endure shit players like almunia representing us and being told by wenger how good our young players are and how close we are to success

Reality and stats show us that we are streets behind the chavs and mancs but the really worrying aspect for most of us is that wenger cannot see that

If he cannot see that almunia is shit, that we are too lightweight and physically small, that we are lacking in really top quality players in key positions and that we are badly lacking in experience and leadership then how can we ever improve ?

The sad fact is that right now wengers loyalty is to sub standard players and a useless boardroom full of *word censored* instead of having his loyalty to the club itself and the fans

RoscommonGooner · Post by **RoscommonGooner** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:24 pm

I dont think anyone disputes what Wenger did when he first arrived, whether it was because he inherited an exceptional back 5 or because he brought in new players doesnt matter. The fact is he brought a new freshness and the Premier League title aswell and that was great but that was then and this is now.

What is pissing me right off now and I think is pissing some of the people on here is that he is now persisting with this "project". This idea that he can win the PL and/or CL with the team that he built, the team that he brought on from their teens to twenties. I personally think that this will not happen and I think most people don't believe this will happen either. This isn't a knee-jerk reaction to yesterdays result, this has been building up for years. He has built a team of light-weight injury prone players that simply are not good enough to win a title

skipper · Post by **skipper** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:24 pm

merse_10 wrote:
Connolly55 wrote:Since David Dein left its all gone downhill if you ask me. Why does he not listen to the fans, or use a bit of common sense atleast? Anyone can see we need to buy players. I actually thought to myself today how many premiership teams Almunia would get into, and i struggled big time.

I'd like to be in the clear about the money situation aswell, have we got money to spend? Is Wenger being stubborn? Are we in debt?

As soon as RVP was ruled out for the rest of the season he should have brought someone in. Simple as. Now im all for pretty football, but at the end of the day i'd rather win 1-0, hoofing it long all day, then lose 3-0 by playing attractive football.
absolutely spot on,the current board/manager are so detatched from us fans they have no idea what we really think.At least with dein he was in touch and understood us fans cos he's one aswell.no one is close enough to see whats really goin on
i'm sad to say it and have always defended him till the last but aw's comment today was the final straw for me 'IF ANYTHING WE HAVE TOO MANY PLAYERS' that is the most deluded thing anyone has ever said-time to go

I think there is a word "SHIT" missing in that sentance

swords · Post by **swords** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:30 pm

we have been a massive club at various points in our history and have had dips at other times

we are in that dip period

I loved george graham's arsenal and did not wont to see that era end,but the league title challenges dwindled from 91 (although the cup campaigns were great)

I ve loved what wenger has done,but no one should have a job for life in this tough old football world

wenger has I think 18mths to go in his contract.I think he will fall on his sword at the end of that if we are have no trophy by then

but if he goes into next season knowing it could be his last,will he be a busted flush anyway?will the players not be motivated next season .if they know the manager will be gone at the end of the season?
we arguably were assisted in winning the 02 league,by fergie announcing a premature retirement,he admitted he couldn't motivate his players that season?

Quintus · Post by **Quintus** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:32 pm

Just how much longer can we keep trading on past glories. Project Arsene is approaching delivery time.

Well it should be

Post by **I Hate Hleb** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:33 pm

Vlad III wrote:
I Hate Hleb wrote:
AFCWozza wrote:Can I remind you that 2004 apart, most of that success was built on the back of a great defence - which played a prominent part in Arsenal success in the years you earlier disparaged; and players bought by other managers?
How was this great defence getting on in the 5 years previous to Wenger? Many league titles? Just interested like...

Well, first of all you can't pick and choose the time periods that only suit your arguments. I already listed the silverware won during those specific years and the players that helped achieve that also won stuff for Arsenal prior to it. However, because you asked the question I assume you probably weren't a supporter back then, so I'll inform you that most of those defenders got 2 league titles prior to Wenger arriving.

Now add those to the 2 they helped Wenger win in 98 and 2002, and that makes 4 in total. Now how many titles have the defences constructed soley under Wenger won?

Vlad III · Post by **Vlad III** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:47 pm

Yes I can pick the time period. Your trying to diminish Wenger's part in the titles he won in 97 and 02, while giving credit to the previous 2 managers. So how come, with the same defence, in the previous 5 seasons Arsenal finished nowhere near the title?

Vlad III · Post by **Vlad III** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:53 pm

Oh and how many times did the defences constructed under Wenger go a whole season unbeaten? But I suppose that doesn't count cus one day Tony Adams told Kolo Toure the secret of defending and really should get the majority of the credit for that!

skipper · Post by **skipper** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:55 pm

Vlad III wrote:Yes I can pick the time period. Your trying to diminish Wenger's part in the titles he won in 97 and 02, while giving credit to the previous 2 managers. So how come, with the same defence, in the previous 5 seasons Arsenal finished nowhere near the title?

olgitgooner · Post by **olgitgooner** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:55 pm

I Hate Hleb wrote:
Vlad III wrote:
I Hate Hleb wrote:
AFCWozza wrote:Can I remind you that 2004 apart, most of that success was built on the back of a great defence - which played a prominent part in Arsenal success in the years you earlier disparaged; and players bought by other managers?
How was this great defence getting on in the 5 years previous to Wenger? Many league titles? Just interested like...
Well, first of all you can't pick and choose the time periods that only suit your arguments. I already listed the silverware won during those specific years and the players that helped achieve that also won stuff for Arsenal prior to it. However, because you asked the question I assume you probably weren't a supporter back then, so I'll inform you that most of those defenders got 2 league titles prior to Wenger arriving.

Now add those to the 2 they helped Wenger win in 98 and 2002, and that makes 4 in total. Now how many titles have the defences constructed soley under Wenger won?

That's a good argument, Hlebby.

Seems to me that Arsene's main failing is in defence.

Get that bit right, and everything else becomes much easier. Chelsea defend well. All over the pitch. They play powerful football. But not exciting, beautiful football. Which is what our manager is commited to.

I still stand by my guns, though. Arsene is, for all his failings, one bloody good manager.

Vlad III · Post by **Vlad III** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:57 pm

Yeah you really showed me what a complete idiot I am with those smileys!

I bow down to your superior knowledge of all that is Arsenal!

marcengels · Post by **marcengels** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:02 pm

Vlad III wrote:Yes I can pick the time period. Your trying to diminish Wenger's part in the titles he won in 97 and 02, while giving credit to the previous 2 managers. So how come, with the same defence, in the previous 5 seasons Arsenal finished nowhere near the title?

Wenger deserves credit for signing Overmars and Viera/Petit, who complemented a defence that had been wasted for the previous five years.

Post by **I Hate Hleb** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:06 pm

Vlad III wrote:Yes I can pick the time period. Your trying to diminish Wenger's part in the titles he won in 97 and 02, while giving credit to the previous 2 managers...

I'm doing no such thing!! I'm just defending the players that were at Arsenal prior to Wenger's arrival whose achievements were being diminished by AFCWazza and then yourself, whilst pointing out that Wenger owed some of his success to them.

Vlad III wrote:..So how come, with the same defence, in the previous 5 seasons Arsenal finished nowhere near the title?

And there you go again!!

Because the rest of the team wasn't good enough. You see, unlike some of you in the Arsene Knows crew, I can admit such a thing and not feel any less of a supporter!!! However, let me remind you again - during that period at least they won something!!! And made history as well.

Now answer this question, seeing as you like to work in numbers of 5, how comes the team have won fuck all in the five years since 2005, with a defence and squad totally constructed by Wenger?