Would a change in formation make us more defensively stable?

[I Hate Hleb]

Run with it for a minute: I'm thinking along the lines of 3 centre backs (Gallas, Sol and TV), with one of them (Sol or Gallas) playing slightly deeper than the other two in a quasi-sweeper type role. This would then allow us to have protection when the full backs or one of the other C.B. bombs forward.
This would also mean Song could continue his occasional forward runs but still leave us with enough protection if he got caught upfield ala Sunday.

In front of them in midfield alongside Song would be Cesc, and just in front of them any two from Arshavin, Rosicky or Nasri, given the freedom to play anywhere within the attacking third and a target man to link it all - in this case Bendtner.

(Edit: I tried putting the formation up but it the format fecked it up!!:banghead: ) Anyone know how to tab along the page whilst writing a post, without losing the set-up?)

[merse_10]

gotta be honest,i just wanna see us return to a std 4-4-2 and have 2 genuine strikers instead of this 4-3-3(which is more 4-5-1 if u ask me)
maybe if we had an actual out and out goal scorer up front it'd work as it is now.we have 5-6 players who'd be great playing off someone like huntelaar or dzeko

[Connolly55]

Im with Merse, i honestly think you cant go wrong with a standard 4-4-2. That way the strikers always have support, you can nominate a holding player, namely song, and give cesc the lisence to roam.

[g88ner]

Wenger changed from 4-4-2 to the current formation because he felt it would improve us defensively.... when, in fact, he's made us WORSE!!

Wenger said this, on Arsenal.com, at the start of the season....

‘We will concede fewer goals this season’

“...we conceded too many goals last year and we decided to rectify our defence and the system we play.

“I believe that by the end of this season we will have conceded less goals..."

Well, I guess Wenger fucked that up then Last season we conceded a ridiculous 37 league goals BUT this season, after only 25 games, we've conceded a farcical 30 fucking goals!!!!! and counting....

Arsene Knows

[Connolly55]

The defending for Chelsea's first goal wouldn't of even happened in my sunday league team.

[VforVictory]

You have a good poitn and we need to concede less and make best use fo our players not cram square pegs into round holes.

I suggest similar to your but 4-4-2 but with a slight change from how we used to play.

Not as wide as before but more defensive stability.

The middle two?

Song drops deep to shield back four. He can drop deeper if full backs run forward.

In front of him you have three players.

Centrally a new signing, a Flamini type, who runs everywhere and breaks up the play and lays off simple balls. He can drop deep if Song runs forward.

Cesc plays to the right, take your pick from Nasri/Rosicky/Diaby/Walcott to the left.

Then you have Arshavin just behind RvP up front.

--------------------------------Szesney-----------------------

Sagna--------------Gallas-----------Vermaelen---------------Gibbs

----------------------------------Song--------------------------------

---Cesc ----------------New mobile ballwinner --------------Rosicky----

-------------------------Arshavin----------------------------------
---------------------------------Van Persie---------------------------

[GallasFC]

if 4-5-1 can't solve our defensive problems then god help us

[I Hate Hleb]

The problem with 4-4-2 is that we'd get over-run in midfield, and Song has already shown in the past that he isn't mobile enough to play in a central 2 next to Cesc. it would also take away from Fabs ability to join up with the other attcking players.

My system gives us the defensive security of always having an extra player back - which is nominally what Song is supposed to do in the 4-5-1 / 4-3-3 but somehow hasn't quite got it down to a tee yet. Song can then still do a defensive midfield job but with added bonus of having cover should he get caught upfield. Similarly, TV covers the left back and Gallas the right when they go forward.

The formation would look like this:

---------------------------------Goal-Keeper--------------------------------------

---------------------------------------Sol------------------------------------------

-----------------------Gallas------------------------Vermaelen------------------

Sagna--------------------------------------------------------------------Clichy--

--------------------------------Cesc-----------Song-------------------------------

---------------------Rosicky-----------------------------Arshavin----------------

-------------------------------------Bendtner-------------------------------------

Arshavin and Rosicky would have the freedom to move left or right and Cesc the space to go forward to join the other attacking players.

[topgoon]

Our 4-3-3 is never a 4-3-3.
Usually a 4-5-1 which ends up a 2-2-6. ^ headless chickens passing the ball around the oppo's box till Clichy/Sagna sends a poor cross in that the oppo's keeper easily catches and sets up a counter attack, leaving the 6-2 eating oppo dust and our CB's in a 2 against 3,4,5 or however many the oppo get forward.

The 4-3-3 would work better if the FB's didn't lose the ball so easily in an attacking position, the 2 semi-holding midfielders actually did just that...HOLD the midfield. I hate Lampard and that german prick that plays for CSKA but in yesterday's game I can't remember both of them joining in the attack and leaving Terry and Carvalho on their own.
It's not the formation, we just don't know how to defend. We used to have a legacy of being great defensively, now we are the worst team besides relegation fodder.

[I Hate Hleb]

Well by putting Campbell in the line-up we'd be guaranteed at least one player that knew how to defend properly!!

[merse_10]

The problem with 4-4-2 is that we'd get over-run in midfield, and Song has already shown in the past that he isn't mobile enough to play in a central 2 next to Cesc. it would also take away from Fabs ability to join up with the other attcking players.

My system gives us the defensive security of always having an extra player back - which is nominally what Song is supposed to do in the 4-5-1 / 4-3-3 but somehow hasn't quite got it down to a tee yet. Song can then still do a defensive midfield job but with added bonus of having cover should he get caught upfield. Similarly, TV covers the left back and Gallas the right when they go forward.

The formation would look like this:

---------------------------------Goal-Keeper--------------------------------------

---------------------------------------Sol------------------------------------------

-----------------------Gallas------------------------Vermaelen------------------

Sagna--------------------------------------------------------------------Clichy--

--------------------------------Cesc-----------Song-------------------------------

---------------------Rosicky-----------------------------Arshavin----------------

-------------------------------------Bendtner-------------------------------------

Arshavin and Rosicky would have the freedom to move left or right and Cesc the space to go forward to join the other attacking players.

like the idea of sol playin sweeper at least worth a look
agree the mid would be overrun in a 442 but only cos of the 4,vieira and petit never got overrun because they were bigger and stronger and there lies the problem,no size/strength in the right areas 442 would work with better players

[I Hate Hleb]

That's why I'm proposing it for the rest of this season. Without the players to use 4-4-2 like we once did, and the 4-3-3/4-5-1 seemingly offering us no extra protection at the back, this could work and at the very least should be tried. You can swap Gallas and Sol's position if you like, with the frenchman as sweeper, but I honestly feel it would at least make us a bit more difficult to score against.

[TeeCee]

topgoons right, it inevitably ends up 2-2-6 or even 2-1-7, which is why we score so many goals all over the team and not mainly through strikers. (Well, and the fact that most of our strikers are shit)!

Assuming that Wenger has told them all not to pour forward at the same time, the answer is simples, it's purely a lack of discipline. He needs to tell Song - literally, do not go over the halfway line. Same with the fullbacks, they need to be told, don't both go into the opposition half at the same time. With two strikers, three midfielders and a full back attacking, that should be more than enough - there's no need to have 7 or 8 players in the opposition half (unless it's a corner or free kick of course).
Song isn't quick enough to be a box to box player, Denilson isn't quick enough to be a chess player let alone a footballer! Song needs to accept/be told, that his job is to defend the defence!

[g88ner]

I wouldn't change formation.

I would be tempted to DROP CLICHY and move Gallas or Vermaelen to left back, with Sol coming in at centre back. Would give us extra height in the back four, and would mean we see the back of that utter waste of space, Clichy - although, we'd certainly miss his crossing ability, wouldn't we

I know many won't be convinced by Sol, but I've been very impressed with him so far... and anyway, most of the teams we play in the league from now on are hardly world beaters, so Sol's calmness and reading of the game may work better than Clichy's erratic behaviour.

In midfield, I'd play Diaby, Song and Cesc and try and convince them to take defending seriously for a change, and protect our back four as if their lives depended on it!!! - or even coach them how to defend properly??? now there's an idea, Arsene

[merse_10]

That's why I'm proposing it for the rest of this season. Without the players to use 4-4-2 like we once did, and the 4-3-3/4-5-1 seemingly offering us no extra protection at the back, this could work and at the very least should be tried. You can swap Gallas and Sol's position if you like, with the frenchman as sweeper, but I honestly feel it would at least make us a bit more difficult to score against.

fair point,not much we can do about that now.i like the idea of tv5 or billy at lb and bring sol in,dont know why we didnt try him against drogba neither has pace but sol is most physical def weve got.everyone else has failed against him also