IDIOTS

Post by **REB** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:37 am

http://sport.independent.co.uk/football ... 146389.ece

HAVE THEY EVER BEEN TO AN AWAY MATCH AND HEARD THE FILTH DIRECTED AT WENGER,, AND WHAT SO CALLED SUPPORTERS WOULD SUE THERE CLUB

FAR TO PC NOWADAYS

stearmaster · Post by **stearmaster** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:41 am

thats the biggest load of crap i heard in ages, at the start where it said a muslim a christian and a jew i thought it was gonna be a joke or sommin, then i read on and i was right, a complete and utter joke, as you stated rebel, far to PC andits ok when they chant ***** army* and state them selves as ****.......

All_Arsenal_1886 · Post by **All_Arsenal_1886** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:34 am

rebel gooner wrote:http://sport.independent.co.uk/football ... 146389.ece

HAVE THEY EVER BEEN TO AN AWAY MATCH AND HEARD THE FILTH DIRECTED AT WENGER,, AND WHAT SO CALLED SUPPORTERS WOULD SUE THERE CLUB

FAR TO PC NOWADAYS

How pathetic

augie · Post by **augie** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:39 am

The whole world has gone way to pc for my liking. I remember a few years ago there were people calling for the end of the phrase "black coffee" in case it was deemed racist

Nobody would condone racist chanting but if the spurts call themselves **** army and are allowed to do so how can it be then deemed to be offensive to chant it back at them ? If this goes against us then the spurts fans MUST be stopped from using the phrase. The fact that these so called fans are willing to sue the club over this is a disgrace and smacks of people who are either out to make an "easy buck" or are after some kind of recognition from themselves. God I hope the club can find some way

of planting something on these morons and expel them the club

Post by **T.S** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:50 am

Playing devil's advocate here...

I think calling someone a paedophile and using a word which is widely recognised as a racial slur are two completely different things. I agree that there shouldn't be one rule for us and one rule for Sp*rs, but if there's a Jewish guy who's been offended by it, I'm afraid we can't really argue with it. To sue the Club sounds a bit extreme though.

I don't want to come across as pious and holier than thou and all that, but there is no getting around the fact that it is a recognised term which is used in a derogatory manner towards Jewish people. Now, I'm not going to harp on about how much I know about the history of the word, because I know fuck all about it. However, if a Jewish guy has found it offensive, I don't see what the counter argument can be. Racism isn't big and it isn't clever and I'd like to think that matters like a Jewish supporter getting offended by the word '****' wouldn't get such a blasÃ© response from us lot. Here's some food for thought; just because we don't see it as racist, doesn't mean it isn't...

charliegeorgewhocanhitem · Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:06 am

rebel gooner wrote:http://sport.independent.co.uk/football ... 146389.ece

HAVE THEY EVER BEEN TO AN AWAY MATCH AND HEARD THE FILTH DIRECTED AT WENGER,, AND WHAT SO CALLED SUPPORTERS WOULD SUE THERE CLUB

FAR TO PC NOWADAYS

If they're offended then complain to the club, stewards, police/whoever but to sue the club they profess to support??? fuckin wankers. I hope their surrounding season ticket holders get to know who they are and let them know what we think about people who'd try and hurt our club

TheOne2Smooth · Post by **TheOne2Smooth** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:08 am

I'm quite happy banning the Y word from football, in fact I support it! it would put the filths nose out of joint more than ours, how many of there songs have the said Y word in it.

All_Arsenal_1886 · Post by **All_Arsenal_1886** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:12 am

So they are suing the club but insist on keeping there season tickets?.....

Cus Geezer · Post by **Cus Geezer** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:35 am

thats the biggest load of crap i heard in ages, at the start where it said a muslim a christian and a jew i thought it was gonna be a joke or sommin, then i read on and i was right, a complete and utter joke, as you stated rebel, far to PC andits ok when they chant ***** army* and state them selves as ****.......

Have considered the fact that the vast majority of Spurs fans are gentiles and therefore the word '****' is not their word to reclaim in the first place?

Personally I agree with them.

This is the usual hyperbole that you get from the papers - the fact that the Indy is one of the intelligentsia papers doesn't mean that they don't partake in such stuff. Forget the headline, the content of that article can be summed up here

Mr Davies's letter, sent this week to Peter Hill-Wood, makes it clear that the season-ticket holders can sue the club for breach of contract as Arsenal has a written policy of taking firm action against racist behaviour in the stadium.

It looks to me that the legal threats are a back up to get the club to crack down on it (and they should crack down on it) rather than seeking a few quid in compo for the sake of it.

Cus Geezer · Post by **Cus Geezer** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:52 am

HAVE THEY EVER BEEN TO AN AWAY MATCH AND HEARD THE FILTH DIRECTED AT WENGER

Two wrongs don't make a right and unless it's these particular fans personally chanting that at Wenger I don't see the relevance

AND WHAT SO CALLED SUPPORTERS WOULD SUE THERE CLUB

That's about as logical as saying people suing the government when they have been wronged by them are unpatriotic

FAR TO PC NOWADAYS

I don't think a Jewish person having to listen to people shouting about **** and a black person being served black coffee are of equal comparison are they?

It amazes me how moaning about PC seems to be a convienient excuse for idiotic behaviour these days. It reminds me of that episode of Alan Partridge where Alan tells Michael that the forecourt of his BP garage would be a good place to have a barbeque and Michael tells him that you're not allowed to have naked flames on the forecourt and Alan replies with 'it's just political correctness gone mad'. [/quote]

Ben Diesel · Post by **Ben Diesel** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:52 am

I have been going to games for over 30 years. In the 70s and 80s on the North Bank, some of the stuff that was chanted - although seemingly aimed only at Spurs and their supporters - was clearly anti-semitic and directed at Jews in general. Songs praising Hitler and the nazis; 'gotta get rid of the ****'; large groups of fans making hissing noises to imitate the sound of gas entering the gas chambers. I'm ashamed to admit that there was so much of it going on that I became immune to it. It didn't occur to me how offensive it might be until I took along a young woman from work to see a game. I hadn't known she was Jewish, until then. She deteriorated into hysterical sobbing at hearing the filth being chanted at that game. We had to leave the stadium before half time.

In addition, back then there was still quite a bit of anti-black language; though thankfully the chanting of that has just about disappeared. That doesn't mean that people's attitudes have changed, though - once a racist, always a racist. They just keep more quiet about it nowadays. But I still overhear some awful comments used in conversations in and around the pubs, streets and stadium.

The current situation is a vast improvement over what used to happen, though, and I reckon the chanting of words like '****' and 'yiddo' is the extent of the problem at Arsenal. My view is that the true 'idiots' are those fans that use these words in association with Spurs, but are not bright enough to realise that it could very easily offend any Jewish person - and there are plenty of Jews supporting Arsenal.

But Man City away in 2005-06 brought bad memories of the past flooding back. In the row behind me were 5 or 6 young men who chanted anti-semitic songs all through the first half. It sent a freezing chill down my spine to hear stuff like that again, and made me feel quite sick, to be honest. It ain't nice.

The club statement quoted in that Independent article has been trundled out by Arsenal for donkey's years. But I wonder how many people have been kicked out? How many prosecuted? Very few I would guess, out of the many that take part in this sort of chanting. So maybe these three people consider the club to be failing to meet its promise to stamp it out and feel the need to force Arsenal to do something about it. That's their right. Are they going about it in the right way? I don't know. Maybe all other avenues of complaint have failed for them already. But if they succeed in forcing the club to clamp down on it, fair play to them. It can only make the match day experience more pleasant for everyone.

And in my opinion, the fact that Spurs fans refer to their collective as '**** army' does not make it right for us to use offensive terms back at them.

Galasso · Post by **Galasso** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:00 am

I think there's a difference between singing songs about hitler gassing Jews and shouting "yiddo" at a former spurs player.

If these guys are offended, then fine - I believe in their right to take whatever course of action they wish.

But perhaps sp**s fans should be taking the lead in this, being the most vocal users of such terms.

Cus Geezer · Post by **Cus Geezer** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:02 am

Totally agree, Ben.

I mentioned on here that while watching the Man City game a certain Finsbury Park bar, there were some of these dicks chanting 'spurs are on their way to Belsen, Hitler's gonna gas 'em again', along with songs about the IRA that had no particular relevance to Arsenal or the game and were just an attempt to wind up the publicans. One of them ended up throwing a bottle at the screen because of Arsenal's failure to put the ball away in the 1st half.

Haven't seen much of them in this bar since thankfully

Post by **T.S** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:03 am

Ben and Cus - couldn't agree more.

Ben Diesel · Post by **Ben Diesel** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:05 am

I think there's a difference between singing songs about hitler gassing Jews and shouting "yiddo" at a former spurs player.

I agree. What I was trying to demonstrate is how much things have improved; but that there's still a way to go.

IDIOTS

IDIOTS

Re: IDIOTS

Re: IDIOTS