Play off for 4th

digger · Post by **digger** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:44 pm

It's ridiculous. A "league" is a 38 game season where every team plays eachother twice, and everything is done on merit.

Let's say Liverpool finish 4th this season, Man City are 8 points behind in 5th, Spurs 2 points behind City, and Villa 5 behind Spurs (unlikely, I know... but...). Liverpool have won enough games to finish 15 points ahead of Villa. First minute of their play off, the ref sends off a Liverpool player for a foul barely worth a booking. Villa go on to win 3 - 0. That just doesn't sit right with me.... putting (potentially) the financial security of a club in the hands of an official - and all premiership officials have proven themselves to be inept.

Another thing to consider... every club has a bogey team (I can think of a club who haven't beaten us in 11 seasons

). Imagine if you finished 15 points ahead of your bogey team, and they still beat you in the playoffs. That's bollocks.

Kiki · Post by **Kiki** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:46 pm

I DON'T think it should happen......but we're all hypocrites in one way or another as the Champions League has already been diluted by allowing 3rd and 4th place finishers into it.

I would like to see the FA Cup Winners get a place i it. It ends the arguament then whether 4th is more important than winning a Cup and an achievement is also accomplished by winning the cup.

franksav63 · Post by **franksav63** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:50 pm

Kiki wrote:I DON'T think it should happen......but we're all hypocrites in one way or another as the Champions League has already been diluted by allowing 3rd and 4th place finishers into it.

I would like to see the FA Cup Winners get a place i it. It ends the arguament then whether 4th is more important than winning a Cup and an achievement is also accomplished by winning the cup.

and also 2nd Kiki...

Kiki · Post by **Kiki** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:55 pm

franksav63 wrote:
Kiki wrote:I DON'T think it should happen......but we're all hypocrites in one way or another as the Champions League has already been diluted by allowing 3rd and 4th place finishers into it.

I would like to see the FA Cup Winners get a place i it. It ends the arguament then whether 4th is more important than winning a Cup and an achievement is also accomplished by winning the cup.
and also 2nd Kiki...

Yes but I personally think 2nd is a big achievement. That's why I didnt mention that position.

franksav63 · Post by **franksav63** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:58 pm

I would prefer it to go back to it's original format, but that'll never happen Kiki, but I get your point though.

Its Up 4 Grabs Now · Post by **Its Up 4 Grabs Now** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:03 pm

Kiki wrote:I DON'T think it should happen......but we're all hypocrites in one way or another as the Champions League has already been diluted by allowing 3rd and 4th place finishers into it.

I would like to see the FA Cup Winners get a place i it. It ends the arguament then whether 4th is more important than winning a Cup and an achievement is also accomplished by winning the cup.

Not sure where the hypocrisy is in that? The argument isnâ€™t about whether the play-off would devalue the CL or not, itâ€™s the fact that it would devalue the concept of the league.

Cant agree a place should be given to the cup winners either. Winning 6 games, potentially against predominantly lower league teams doesnâ€™t compare to earning your place over 38 games. And Iâ€™m not sure it would really restore any prestige to the cup, might even have the opposite effect as teams would only be going all out to win the cup in order to bag the CL place. The cup itself would become an added bonus & a bit of an afterthought. You might as well get the winning captain to climb the stairs & lift a giant cheque instead of the trophy. At least now as things stand come cup final day both teams are there for the â€œgloryâ€

Kiki · Post by **Kiki** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:12 pm

I personally dont think that whoever finishes 7th should have a chance to entre the Champions League, that said, its only because that suits me as an Arsenal fan.

Was anyone complaining when UEFA gradually opened it up to more English Clubs? I certainly wasn't.

But I see your point too regarding the captain may as well lift a giant cheque instead of a Cup.

But as a big fan of the cup I think it would be great to see team fielding strong sides and going completely gung-ho to win a match. Cos even some mid-table teams rest players for FA Cup games.

Last point, there are Championship teams who are better thean some of the teams who get a chance to enter the Champions League qualifying.

Radford149 · Post by **Radford149** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:44 pm

radford just finds the whole premier league and their stunts totally boring. they create a monster and now are trying to put it back in a box...pathetic

safcftm · Post by **safcftm** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:29 pm

I have mixed feelings on this idea. Personally i always think 4 teams getting into the CL through league position is too many, if a team isnt even in a "medal" position, i wouldnt let them in the CL, so giving even more teams the chance to get in seems a bit of an odd idea.

Having said that it would give more clubs the chance to get into the lucrative tournament for a season and, if it isnt always the same clubs getting CL money, the league might get more competitive (or man utd and chelsea will just get more and more dominant as no other club gets CL money consistently enough to be able to challenge)

From an excitement point of view it would be great, although i think that just letting the top 3 clubs and the FA Cup winners into the CL would be better. If the FA Cup winner is one of the teams that has finished in the top 3, the place automatically goes to 4th in the league so, in effect, very little would change (how often has a side finishing 5th or below won the cup in recent years), but it would provide a huge lift to a great competition and would let every fan in england dream of CL football- plus at least the FA Cup winners are champions of something, for a tournament that starts as a league, then becomes a cup, having both the league and cup champions in it would make sense

Its an interesting idea worthy of consideration but i am very cynical when it comes to the premier league- i wonder if this would ever have been considered if it didnt look like there would soon be a "big 5"- imo man city will soon displace liverpool and, when they dont get CL money, they could enter a very turbulent time in their history, the premier league wouldnt want that- liverpool are one of their "flagship" clubs and i reckon they would do anything in their power to give them a good chance of still making the champions league. This proposal has come around at a very opportune time for the PL imo

corkbarry · Post by **corkbarry** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:57 pm

It is not up to the premier league to decide who will get the 4th spot. This would be a EUFA decision. In my opinion EUFA will not devalue the CL by letting in teams that no one outside of the Uk has ever heard of.

safcftm · Post by **safcftm** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:02 pm

corkbarry wrote:It is not up to the premier league to decide who will get the 4th spot. This would be a EUFA decision. In my opinion EUFA will not devalue the CL by letting in teams that no one outside of the Uk has ever heard of.

i might be wrong like, but i've always been certain that UEFA decide how many teams a country can enter, but that it is up to the individual FA's to put forward the teams they wish to represent them

potter · Post by **potter** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:20 pm

So the team that finishes 7 th goes into the C.L and gets knocked out in the qualifiers. The league's average co-efficient goes down and we lose the 4 th place. Shrewd thinking.

safcftm · Post by **safcftm** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:20 pm

just had a look about and this seems to confirm my suspicion, its an article from when cardiff got to the FA Cup final

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... A-Cup.html

"Dave Jones' side have reached the semi-finals of the competition for the first time since 1927 - the year they last won it - but under current FA regulations they will not be nominated to represent England in the UEFA Cup if they lift the trophy."

The Bluebirds come under the jurisdiction of the FA of Wales, even though they choose to play in FA competitions.

This leaves them in limbo as neither association can nominate them for Europe - the FA because Cardiff are Welsh and the FAW because they do not play in their competitions.

Cardiff chairman Peter Ridsdale had hoped the FA would put them forward but the governing body have moved today to reiterate their regulations.

An FA spokesperson saidt: "Our position remains unchanged and should Cardiff win the FA Cup this season they would not be chosen as the FA's nomination for European competition.

Obviously not exactly the same situation, but it seems to confirm that the FA can decide who to nominate for european competition and, had they felt so inclined, could have nominated cardiff.

If the FA can decide who to nominate from the FA Cup then it would make sense if it is the premier league who decides who is nominated from the prem, and i reckon they will want liverpool in if possible

LeftfootlegendGooner · Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:58 pm

I don't like the idea but they have play offs for the championship and downwards which i personally think is harsh but its all money orientated like othres have said.

marcengels · Post by **marcengels** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:07 pm

Won't affect us - By the time this comes in, we will be in the early stages of our dominance of english and european football. probably winning the league by twenty points, an dismantling Barcelona in the European Cup.