Adebayor and Eboue not worthy of first team places (16/11)

[gooner.ed]

http://www.onlinegooner.com/exclusive/index.php?id=464

Usual thread starter… So with regards to Adebayor and Eboue, the real question is do statistics tell us evenything? And if Arsene swears by them, why does he keep playing them? As for the Gallas/Toure debate, I think Toure is maybe too much of a nice guy in comparison with Gallas, Same with Gilberto. I think Gallas can be both a nice guy and – when required – enough of a bastard to get the best out of the younger players. He has their respect because of his achievements and won’t settle for underperforming. He’ll give a rocket up someone’s arse if it’s called for, but is not moody or sulky in the way TH14 was. I think AW’s made the right choice there, and I was advocating it last April so there’s no wisdom after the event here!

[REB]

all summer i said how glad i was that gallas was captain as i felt it would help him and bring on the players around him better,, no one can doubt his will to win,,

adebayor and eboue are not up to league winners standerds,, esp eboue,, as for him been an excellant full back as wrote in the online article im sorry but were we watching the same player last season..

adebayor might bring something to the team but eboue does not,, we should hav bought ribery but we were to mean to cough up,,

[DB10GOONER]

I agree with some of the things the author says about Yabba (not everything though) but I'm going to have an anti-statistic rant!!

I f*cking hate stats. Stats are so widely open to interpretation and false readings that, where I work (in Civil Service Recruitment), we will not qualify or recommend anyone for a senior management post if they present themselves as “statistic-reliantâ€

[I Hate Hleb]

TOTALLY AGREE DB10.

TO PARAPHRASE ONE OF MY FAVOURITE SAYINGS ABOUT STATISTICS:

STATISTICS ARE LIKE MINI-SKIRTS; THEY GIVE YOU A ROUGH IDEA OF WHAT'S GOING ON UNDERNEATH BUT DON'T SHOW YOU THE WHOLE PICTURE! (OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT!)

[Gooneroonie]

Regardless of stats, Eboue just doesn't cut the mustard for me. He is the last diver left in the Arsenal squad, and he just isn't world class (which is what we need to make the most of our width) at home. I'm not even sure if he is top 4 premiership class. In fact, I know he isn't.

By all accounts he is a bit of a joker behind the scenes and the rest of the players like him. I still wouldn't be sad to see him go be dropped in Jan.

As for Ade I had just texted a mate to say how disappointed I had been with him recentl, and how lazy he is also, when he scored that sublime goal against Reading. This seemed to kick start him into gear and he looked like a constant menace thereafter. It's clear that he is a confidence player despite the bravado (stupid touchline dances, etc).

As for Gallas... Right decision.

[DB10GOONER]

Regardless of stats, Eboue just doesn't cut the mustard for me. He is the last diver left in the Arsenal squad, and he just isn't world class (which is what we need to make the most of our width) at home. I'm not even sure if he is top 4 premiership class. In fact, I know he isn't.

By all accounts he is a bit of a joker behind the scenes and the rest of the players like him. I still wouldn't be sad to see him go be dropped in Jan.

As for Ade I had just texted a mate to say how disappointed I had been with him recentl, and how lazy he is also, when he scored that sublime goal against Reading. This seemed to kick start him into gear and he looked like a constant menace thereafter. It's clear that he is a confidence player despite the bravado (stupid touchline dances, etc).

As for Gallas... Right decision.

Yeah, the Eboue diving thing has been well covered on other threads but it is the biggest part of his game at the moment. There have been flashes of brilliance from him, but too few and too far between for me. No loss if he goes in Jan.

Agree on Gallas and said it at the time. He is a bad loser and all captains should be. It should f*cking hurt to lose.

[Juan]

There are so many positives about the team at the moment I’m struggling to see why the author wishes to focus on a negative.

Eboue is still learning the trade as a right winger, and also is only in the side, firstly due to Rosicky’s injury then the switch to 4-5-1.

Ade on the other hand is the only fit, experienced striker in the squad at the moment. Bendtner, Theo and Eduardo are all still finding their feet.

I hate to see what Mr. Reilly is like when things aren’t going that well…

[timao]

you're wrong about Eboue. He plays with confidence and style, at the very highest level. The diving thing is an issue when you see it in the premier league I agree. But honestly, last fifteen minutes of the Champion's League final, how many Gooners werer saying, I hope Barca score here cos Eboue dived for our goal and it's just not right... I know I wasn't. Eboue performs consistently and thrives on pressure, that's his value to the team.

[Galasso]

I don't know if Eboue and Adebayor are the new whipping boys now.

I hope not - If they are, it shows how far we have come.

And the Eboue diving thing - He must be the only one in the league to do it then

[aw]

I think it's just unfortunate that Adebayor had a dry spell at the same time a RvP is injured. On top of that the change to 4-5-1 for the difficult games, doesn't help. Even though, he hasn't been scoring, he has been dangerous.

I've never been too sure about Eboue. I'm sure there are better options, but it's so difficult to change a winning team, and he has been part of that.

Gallas is captain, end of story.

[26may1989]

Following on from DB10's comments on stats, I wouldn't mind if Patrick Reilly had actually referred to stats worthy of use, but those ESPN "stats" are utterly meaningless. All you get is goals, assists, shots on target, fouls committed etc - NOTHING on passing or tackling at all.

Whatever criticisms can be made of Ade and Eboue (and there are many), their games are to a large extent built around passing and the roles they play in the team, so the ESPN "stats" add nothing.

Eboue is a flawed right-back because his defending is patchy and is a flawed winger because he doesn't have the pace or skill to beat players, but even with his erratic passing he can play an important role in the team, linking up with Sagna, Fabregas, Flamini or a striker with one-twos and push-and-runs. The "stats" Patrick refers to don't even begin to address these strengths, or the unacceptable regularity with which he gives away possession with his passing.

As far as I'm concerned, Patrick's piece is therefore pretty pointless.

Like Juan, I also find it a bit strange that Patrick wants to look for negatives when the team has played so well this season. I don't consider Eboue or Ade to be anything greater than very useful squad players - they have a role to play in a long season, but they are not automatic picks. Eboue has been picked on because of his tendency to take a dive (something I don't like but which I find strange that others have jumped on so much in Eboue's case) but his positive contributions have usually been ignored.

Ade and Eboue are not world-beaters, but they're good players, playing a significant role in this squad's excellent performance this season.

PS: The decision on Gallas probably was the right one but I still don't trust him. Sorry.

[proudtosaythatname]

I too am not convinced by Ade or Eboue but think they have shown enough to keep their places for now at least. Especially if that's what Arsene wants to do. As many of you have said, stats may have their place but too much reliance on them can be meaningless: for example, the mishit shot which rolls straight to the keeper is 'on target' whilst the Eboue-style strike, which leaves the keeper stranded but hits the post, isn't? Doh!

[Gooneroonie]

you're wrong about Eboue. He plays with confidence and style, at the very highest level. The diving thing is an issue when you see it in the premier league I agree. But honestly, last fifteen minutes of the Champion's League final, how many Gooners werer saying, I hope Barca score here cos Eboue dived for our goal and it's just not right... I know I wasn't. Eboue performs consistently and thrives on pressure, that's his value to the team.

I for one wouldn't want to win the champions league, or any major trophy on the back of cheating. I fucking hate diving and there is no excuse.

I don't care if others do it, that does not make it right.

[Galasso]

you're wrong about Eboue. He plays with confidence and style, at the very highest level. The diving thing is an issue when you see it in the premier league I agree. But honestly, last fifteen minutes of the Champion's League final, how many Gooners werer saying, I hope Barca score here cos Eboue dived for our goal and it's just not right... I know I wasn't. Eboue performs consistently and thrives on pressure, that's his value to the team.

I for one wouldn't want to win the champions league, or any major trophy on the back of cheating. I fucking hate diving and there is no excuse.

I don't care if others do it, that does not make it right.

You're on very dangerous ground with this. Your deciding where you draw the line with regards to what is cheating.

I contend that very few of the trophies that we have won sinnce GG's reign have been won without some form of "cheating" in one way or another.

For example, it's easy to pick on the obvious from Eboue but what about the less obvious cheating - say, a sly shirt tug, eating up time at the end of a game with non-existent injuries, putting undue pressure on referees either during games or from managers prior to games.

[26may1989]

you're wrong about Eboue. He plays with confidence and style, at the very highest level. The diving thing is an issue when you see it in the premier league I agree. But honestly, last fifteen minutes of the Champion's League final, how many Gooners werer saying, I hope Barca score here cos Eboue dived for our goal and it's just not right... I know I wasn't. Eboue performs consistently and thrives on pressure, that's his value to the team.

I for one wouldn't want to win the champions league, or any major trophy on the back of cheating. I fucking hate diving and there is no excuse.

I don't care if others do it, that does not make it right.

Presumably you campaigned for Robert Pires and Freddie Ljungberg to be sold then?