ARE SOME OF US GOING A BIT OTT?

[Percy Dalton]

I know I may take some stick for this but I do believe that some amongst us are going a little bit over the top when it comes to the Ramsey incident on Saturday.

Now firstly I will say what happened was hideous and sickening. I was almost in tears for the lad and like the rest of you I fear for his career as I cannot think of one player who has come back from a tib and fib break the same. The outcome of this could be devastating.

What I will say though is this. I do not think that the tackle was malicious and I also do not believe it was a dirty game where these so called vicious win at all cost northerners were kicking us off the park. Yes, Stoke are a physical side and yes they do use this to their advantage but do you seriously expect them to play gently becauuse Arsenal in town?

I don't remeber many moaning when Keown, Viera, Petit and Co. were trampling over all in front of them, do you?

I am not interested what the Collymore's and the Alan Brazil's of this world say. They are employed to sensationalise things and to get a reaction. If you bite when they spout their shite then you are only playing into their hands and keeping them in a job. Ignore the idiots and listen to or read something else.

Wenger's and Cesc's comments after the game have to be taken in context as they packed full of emotion. We have all said something straight after the event only to wonder if we went a little too far when the dust has settled. To infere that teams go out to break Arsenal players legs is for me going to far. I would agree if someone said that the opposition sometimes do try and intimidate us but breaking bones? No sorry that is quite daft in my eyes.

How many professional footballers out there are happy to snap a 19 year olds leg in half do you think? How many normal people have the balls to intentionally snap someones bones? This is football, not a Nazi concentration camp torture specialist or an Eastend gangster gaining revenge for being grassed up.

The facts are these. Arsenal do play a certain type of game which involves exceptionally quick movement. Sometimes we are just to quick for Average Joe playing for an unfashionable side and I do believe that this contributes to our injury record. For a split second the ball is there and the next it is gone only to be replaced by a planted foot. When this happens you are in trouble and this is what happned to Ramsey I am afraid. His superior and quicker mind and body got to a ball that Shawcross thought he could reach first.

I will also say that where as Wenger does not see it as coincidence that we have had these three injuries, I do not see it as coincidence that they have all happened since Wenger went for a different type of player and a different type of style. No, I am not blaming Wenger before anyone says that, I am simply stating a point. People are saying that injuries like this happen to us because some teams try to take the piss physically. In previous Wenger teams this would never have been allowed to happen. The names I meantioned earlier along with the likes of Parlour and Bergkamp who could all handle themselves and would make sure the smaller less phsical players were protected. Nobody was going to try and kick Arsenal off the park as they didn't fancy going toe to toe with Paddy and Keown! The problem was stopped at the root and was never allowed to start. These days we are seen as a soft touch and any less technically gifted side would be mad not to play to their own strengths.

I am in no way demeaning the terrible thing that happened on Saturday but what I am saying is that if you act in a certain way then you have to take the risks associated with your actions. If you was to play an under 14's team against a mens team week in, week out then you will find that the smaller more lightweight team will get more injuries over the course of the season. That analogy maybe a bit crude but you get my drift.

Let's not get carried away believing there is some vicious campaign going on against Arsenal, there isn't. There is simply teams of less ability fighting to keep themselves in the best league in the world and I for one believe not one single player in that league goes out a mame another in that way.


All the best to Aaron and I hope against hope that this wasn't career defining for you.

[brazilianGOONER]

i disagree, percy.

anyway, arseblog sums it all up perfectly for me:

http://www.oleole.com/blogs/arseblog

[digger]

Must disagree about some of your points Percy....

I don't remeber many moaning when Keown, Viera, Petit and Co. were trampling over all in front of them, do you?

Don't remember any of those guys breaking any limbs (willing to be corrected on this). They played Hard, but fair. Shawcross broke Ramsey's leg with an ott tackle putting his full force into it (you just don't do that), Shawcross has previous having inflicted similar damage on Jeffers a few years ago.

The facts are these. Arsenal do play a certain type of game which involves exceptionally quick movement. Sometimes we are just to quick for Average Joe playing for an unfashionable side and I do believe that this contributes to our injury record. For a split second the ball is there and the next it is gone only to be replaced by a planted foot. When this happens you are in trouble and this is what happned to Ramsey I am afraid. His superior and quicker mind and body got to a ball that Shawcross thought he could reach first.

I've played a game where we lost about 8 - 0 before. We were fucking hopeless compared with the other team; their movement, speed, passing etc was much much better than ours. Yet we didn't tackle late, if you knew you weren't getting the ball you'd pull out. It's common sense - you only leave your boot in if you want to "do" someone. I've also played games where we've won by a similar result - again, no-one was maimed just for being better. It's hardly a good advert for the EPL® when players are "too good" and have their legs broken.

, I do not see it as coincidence that they have all happened since Wenger went for a different type of player and a different type of style. No, I am not blaming Wenger before anyone says that, I am simply stating a point. People are saying that injuries like this happen to us because some teams try to take the piss physically. In previous Wenger teams this would never have been allowed to happen. The names I meantioned earlier along with the likes of Parlour and Bergkamp who could all handle themselves and would make sure the smaller less phsical players were protected.

Vermaelen, Campbell and Song are hardly the sort of players you'd fuck about with. It takes a second to stomp someone on the leg; fuck all having a bit more brawn in your side can do to combat that.

[worthing gooner]

All a matter of your beliefs and standpoint.
To coin the phrase "Actions speak louder than words" seems to appropriate here with what went on at the Brittania. Go out and get in their faces, no time on the ball, they dont fancy it.....
End result 3 broken legs/4 years..

Chance or not?

Good luck Aaron.

AFC
C'mon

[REB]

i felt at the time that is was a really bad attack on ramsey but after seeing it a few times now i feel it was just one of those things and he was very unfortunate, im never one to believe in conspiracy theories that everyone is out to get us anyway and i feel for the lad ramsey and we all hope he comes back because for one thing he has the makings of a very good player, and if it galvanises the players and makes them stronger to fight for there comrade and go on to win the league then all the better.

[DB10GOONER]

So many threads about this... but this one must stay open. Fantastically balanced and honest view of the incident and football in general from Percy. Agree with every word.

It was a bad tackle. They happen in games. Unfortunately due to Ramsey's pace and the timing of him planting his foot in the turf to nick the ball he ended up with the worst possible outcome.

[slevinlacey]

Ive only known of Shawcross since Stoke entered the PL but the tackle he made on one of our players last season which was off the pitch wasnt a tackle by an honest professional.

[flash gunner]

The only thing about the tackle was if Shawcross' intentions was to get the ball what the fuck was he planning to do by kicking so hard, it was such an almighty kick it would have gone out of the stadium!!!!!! I think he intended to kick Ramsey or any Arenal player in the way after mis controlling it but i accept he didnt intend to break his leg but in such a reckless tackle a bad injury was a possibility

[DB10GOONER]

The only thing about the tackle was if Shawcross' intentions was to get the ball what the fuck was he planning to do by kicking so hard, it was such an almighty kick it would have gone out of the stadium!!!!!! I think he intended to kick Ramsey or any Arenal player in the way after mis controlling it but i accept he didnt intend to break his leg but in such a reckless tackle a bad injury was a possibility

Good point too. He was reckless, no doubt about it. And that is the problem with the prevailing culture. Players can tend to be reckless, which can lead to serious (if unintended) injury.

[xDAVEYx]

there are some excellent points made in the embedded video on here:

http://www.skysports.com/tv_show/story/ ... 25,00.html

i think the time has come for the likes of sol, song and vermaelen to say that they will not allow this to happen again. 2 years ago the team crumbled, there was no one that could step up and make it their mission that they will not allow other players to play their physical game. campbell could well prove to be a magnificent signing purely because of his winning, siege mentality.

[PI7ES]

The more i see campbell play this season the more i think he has to play everygame. Watching him order our defense around on saturday and organise was soemthing we have missed since he left. Campbell made toure a great defender by being his brain on the pitch and telling him where to go, it was no coincidence that toure looked awful when we lost an organiser at the back.

[Percy Dalton]

The only thing about the tackle was if Shawcross' intentions was to get the ball what the fuck was he planning to do by kicking so hard, it was such an almighty kick it would have gone out of the stadium!!!!!! I think he intended to kick Ramsey or any Arenal player in the way after mis controlling it but i accept he didnt intend to break his leg but in such a reckless tackle a bad injury was a possibility

Good point too. He was reckless, no doubt about it. And that is the problem with the prevailing culture. Players can tend to be reckless, which can lead to serious (if unintended) injury.

The problem with compartmentalising everything is you then have to define it. What is reckless?

I agree that the "tackle" was very forceful and aggresive but again by what standards do you measure this by?

Yes, Shawcross's actions were a contributing factor I totally agree but there is no way on this earth that there was any intent towards Ramsey.

And that is the key, intent.

[brazilianGOONER]

The only thing about the tackle was if Shawcross' intentions was to get the ball what the fuck was he planning to do by kicking so hard, it was such an almighty kick it would have gone out of the stadium!!!!!! I think he intended to kick Ramsey or any Arenal player in the way after mis controlling it but i accept he didnt intend to break his leg but in such a reckless tackle a bad injury was a possibility

quoting arseblog, it does not matter his intent. if you go around speeding in your car it does not matter if you sincerely just wanted to get to your destination a little quicker, without wanting to run over the poor 10yo boy who was crossing the street. you have responsabilities, and any player who goes into a tackle like he did (and did more in the past, adebayor is an example) should receive more than a 3 match ban. song will be out for 2 matches for doing fuck all!! ramsey will be out for over a year and suffer niggling injuries for the rest of his carrer for doing nothing. and the fucker who went WAY over the top on that challenge will miss 3 games? and get called to the international squad??

fuck me, i hope brazil does not face england. i wouldn't enjoy seeing kaka having his leg broken by that cunt.

[Percy Dalton]

The only thing about the tackle was if Shawcross' intentions was to get the ball what the fuck was he planning to do by kicking so hard, it was such an almighty kick it would have gone out of the stadium!!!!!! I think he intended to kick Ramsey or any Arenal player in the way after mis controlling it but i accept he didnt intend to break his leg but in such a reckless tackle a bad injury was a possibility

quoting arseblog, it does not matter his intent. if you go around speeding in your car it does not matter if you sincerely just wanted to get to your destination a little quicker, without wanting to run over the poor 10yo boy who was crossing the street. you have responsabilities, and any player who goes into a tackle like he did (and did more in the past, adebayor is an example) should receive more than a 3 match ban. song will be out for 2 matches for doing fuck all!! ramsey will be out for over a year and suffer niggling injuries for the rest of his carrer for doing nothing. and the fucker who went WAY over the top on that challenge will miss 3 games? and get called to the international squad??

fuck me, i hope brazil does not face england. i wouldn't enjoy seeing kaka having his leg broken by that cunt.

Yo seem to have a very different use for the word intent in Brazil then!

To have intent, you must be saying that Shawcross intentianally went into that tackle to hurt Aaron Ramsey as much as possible.

To me that is simply not the case.

Also, your analogy about cars doesn't hold water. If you drive to fast and run over someone the intent is not proven by the fact you was speeding. The speed you was doing is a factor but it no way does it prove that if you go 40 mph in a 30 mph zone did you want to kill someone.

[gusher311]

How much are you getting paid to sensationalize things Percy?