ARE SOME OF US GOING A BIT OTT?

[DB10GOONER]

Reading through this you would think that Arsenal have always been saints on the football pitch!

How then you you explain Wright's tackle on Schmeichal in 97?

Schmeichal was a racist cunt?

[digger]

Reading through this you would think that Arsenal have always been saints on the football pitch!

How then you you explain Wright's tackle on Schmeichal in 97?

Schmeichal was a racist cunt?

And Wright didn't permanently injure him... (less can be said for the unfortunate ball..... )

[franksav63]

Hmmm.. I have thought alot about this thread, and whilst Percy's original post is a very well constructed it hints that we never got this sort of treatment that is being meted out when we had the likes of Paddy and Keown in our team, but I'm pretty sure they were both in the team when Bolton kicked us off the park a few seasons ago in the 2-2 draw which probably cost us the premiership that season.

It was this game which is now the blueprint for every average and inferior team, to now copy as they can see success in this style of anti-football, which is aided by incompetent referees, who are not doing their job properly, by booking players early enough in a given game when they're committing obvious fouls against our players.

This 'anti-football' has seen us lose several games against the likes of Bolton and Stoke (this season in the F.A. cup) and other managers see this and copy this style as, let's face it, football now days is a result business, especially to the likes of these teams.

Looking at the tackles which has now broken the legs of 3 of our players over the last 4 seasons, I don't think it's a coincidence, or a coincidence that they've all happened at away grounds of recently promoted teams, fighting for their lives for every point in their limited way.

Whilst the Shawcross incident was probably the less obvious of all these appalling 'tackles' and my initial reaction on seeing it that it was an honest 50-50, it doesn't hide the fact, that these teams are set up to do this, by their manager's ,with their pre-match and half time team talks.

I also believe that seeing Shawcross's 'apparent' tears after he got sent off that he cried were that of the crocodile variety, and nothing I've seen since or heard thereafter have changed my mind on that.

[highburyJD]

3 players got stretchered off in that 2-2 Bolton game
INCLUDING Lauren!

["He's comes from Se]

More evidence on what despicable thug and coward Shawcross is.

Thanks to Arseblog.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JImCLHKXTOs

Check out 9 second mark.

Jeffers, Ade , Ramsey and god only knows whom else. Suffice to say that is the definition of a thug...."Not that type of player"...GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!

[Boomer]

Some of us may be missing the bigger picture. The fact the Ramsey broke his leg is no coincide. It's the top of the iceberg in a long run of injuries with the severity differing per player/tackle.

Lets face it, it's been mentioned before, we're supposedly the team that doesn't like it up'em. etc etc... This is a fallacy portrayed by the media.
We too can get stuck in but it's the bully boy tactics which are/have cost us dearly.
There's a difference between a well time tackle which is hard and a ill timed challenge which is reckless.
How often have we heard "If you don't get the ball, make sure you get the man" ?
Liverpool tactically bored us at home but at least there not a dirty team. They simply committed little and silly fouls which stopped us from playing our passing group. It also allowed Liverpool to re-group. But they didn't try to kick us off the field.

If Ramsey hadn't have broke his leg I don't think we'd be discussing this. But this rough'em up type of play has been bubbling for a while.

It's no surprise that it's happened when you look at our injuries and some of the needless and reckless fouls.

Look at the OTT tackle on Walcott
Cana's challenge against Eboue.
you can even go back as far as Rosicky's.....That was due to a kick in the G-spot of the leg, a rare injury to a sweet spot in the leg and was very unlucky. (apparently )

Another serious injury was bound to happen and it's just shocking it's another bad leg break and as well to a young and promising player.

[Exiled-Gooner]

Firstly,no disrespect intended to any of you(especially Percy or BG coz there post pictures of tits on here...i love u guys) as i love you all.This is not a reaction to Saturdays incident but my opinion only.

Some on here say Shawcross is a decent player,some even say we should buy him,well i don't i don't think he is a decent player and IF we did buy him it would put us back 10yrs.I think he's a irresponsible player and funny how the media portray him as the victim but ignore evidence this is not a solitary incident involving him,us mere mortals have unearthed 4 clips of ''tackles'' committed by Shawcross which are deemed career enders.

Shawcross wasn't born to play like that,i hope,but trained to play like that and has been indoctrinated to by managers and coaches to play a physical game against better opponents.I was talking to my brother,who has played at a high level,and he said in training you are taught to judge tackles,when not to tackle,when to pull out etc etc but saturdays incident has far i'm concern had some form of intent,the form of intimating yes but not to break a leg.It showed Shawcross's irresponsibility in choice of tackle,''the sunday league job'' instead of trying block but also showed malice as the power he used which was unnecessary.This is down to training and the guiding words of the manager,i'm not picking on the lad but this goes for the likes of Blackburn,Bolton,Birmingham etc who instead of trying to improve there players would rather use bygone ways which in thinking shows a lack of ambition,laziness and knowledge.

The used of phrases like''in there faces'',''don't like it physical'' etc to me sounds hostile and gives a invitation for foul play and these so-called pundits using these phrases know exactly what there doing.If there didn't there liars as there would use ''closing down'',''stay tight'',''cut off the channels'' etc but implication by these people of such phrases shows there out of touch also and should be replaced with knowledgeable people.

Yes,we had the likes of Veira,Petit etc who could handle themselves but as already posted there didn't go for OTT tackles like we witnessing now and as far as now while playing for us never broke someones leg.I would never put these players in same category with likes of taylor or shawcross.

[Bergkamp-Genius]

Come off it Ex, Paddy dished it out with the best of them, he certainly wasn't averse to physically intimidating the opposition, swinging elbows or plowing through people with mis timed full blooded tackles, there was a reason why he got so many reds and yellows and it wasn't because he was French, and he certainly wasn't the only player we have had in the last 20 years who liked to get stuck in.

I'll bet most of the people on here that are crying foul about the rough treatment we get from the opposition were strutting like peacocks and proud as f*ck after the infamous battle of OT where we bullied and intimidated Utd on their own pitch like never had been seen before. I could name numerous games in the last couple of decades where we played superior opposition and 'got in their faces' 'got stuck in' and all the other terminology that is now being quoted as unacceptable to pull an unlkely result out, but it was alright then because it was us and it helped us win..

Football is about much more than playing pretty triangles, just because our manager has decided that that is the way he wants to play it doesn't mean everyone else has to follow suit, just because it would be easier for us to win if they did.

To me this persecution complex that has desceneded upon us has little to do with the reality of being treated unfair it's more about looking for someone or something to blame for the failure of a policy, and it's no coincidence that the moaning has got more and more as the memories of success have got further and further away. When we were successful under Wenger he was far more placid far more magnanimous and he shone because of that. But now he's like a wailing banshee, bitter resentful and deluded and his reputation is being tarnished because of this.

Nobody can tell me Utd, liverpool and Chelsea don't have to put up with the same tactics from the lesser teams that we do, the difference is there managers live in the real world and they understand that they have to balance their teams to address all eventualities, not just the one where the opposition allows them to play pretty football and score lots of goals.

Bitching about being hard done to will change nothing, so as long as the rules are as they are and are enforced as they are it would be a bit more prudent for the manager to do something about our perceived weaknesses instead of expecting wholesale rule changes to make it easier for his own footballing philosophies to work

[highburyJD]

bergkamp-genius that post is all very well

but how many times have we left opposition players with their legs hanging off?
in my era (end of howe, GG + wenger) I can't remember a single tackle like that

worst I can remember is Davis breaking that racist southampton 'hard' man's jaw all over his face (cotteril?) and that's totally different
(maybe I've forgotten something)

I can't remember a single manure or chav player being taken out like abou, edu or rambo

[Boomer]

bergkamp-genius that post is all very well

but how many times have we left opposition players with their legs hanging off?
in my era (end of howe, GG + wenger) I can't remember a single tackle like that

worst I can remember is Davis breaking that racist southampton 'hard' man's jaw all over his face (cotteril?) and that's totally different
(maybe I've forgotten something)

I can't remember a single manure or chav player being taken out like abou, edu or rambo

Can't remember any serious injuries with the exception of David Busst. Was that due to a challenge?

Cech's head was taken out or off. But wasn't that a accidental clash?

[Its Up 4 Grabs Now]

Bitching about being hard done to will change nothing, so as long as the rules are as they are and are enforced as they are it would be a bit more prudent for the manager to do something about our perceived weaknesses instead of expecting wholesale rule changes to make it easier for his own footballing philosophies to work

But wholesale rule changes aren’t what’s needed or even what Wenger is asking for I don’t think. Just for the rules to actually be applied, and applied evenly. If teams play hard & full-blooded but generally fair against us (as some do) then fair enough it’s up to us to cope with that & if we don’t then that’s our own problem. I’d actually hate for us to be given preferential treatment & be overprotected cos it would devalue the worth of our achievements for me.

But too often with us normal rules don’t seem to apply. Not as a result of any great conspiracy whereby Pulis, Hansen, Andy Gray & Steve Bennet huddle around an effigy of Wenger & plot Arsenal’s downfall - more so through the accumulative effect of a) the unofficial old boys club that half of these managers & pundits are a part of (& Wenger clearly isn’t) sticking together in their “roughing up the prancing pansies is just part of the gameâ€

[Bergkamp-Genius]

bergkamp-genius that post is all very well

but how many times have we left opposition players with their legs hanging off?
in my era (end of howe, GG + wenger) I can't remember a single tackle like that

worst I can remember is Davis breaking that racist southampton 'hard' man's jaw all over his face (cotteril?) and that's totally different
(maybe I've forgotten something)

I can't remember a single manure or chav player being taken out like abou, edu or rambo

You can't remember because like me you don't really care about injuries and broken legs to players of other clubs, therefore your awareness of the extent of other clubs injuries and injury problems is very low..hence the persecution complex...
For instance if i told you that Man United between 2002 and now have suffered 6 first team broken legs, in comparison to our 4, or 5 if you want to include Diaby's ankle and 4 if you want to exclude Diaby breaking his own team mates leg ..
I would imagine that must surprise you since you seem to think that it's only our players that get broken legs, so it would surprise you to know that in the same period the evil Blackburn had 4 broken legs, two in the space of a few days , on two occasions , i can't even begin to imagine the conspiracy theories that would have been thrown around had that happened to us. I'll bet you didn't have any conspiracy theories regarding Blackburn being specifically picked on by the opposition, in fact i'll bet, like me, you weren't even aware it happened, and this is the crux of the problem we only really give a shit what happens at our own club, so we tend to think it's only happening to us and it's always worse for us than everyone else when in reality other clubs and fans are going through similar things.
Of course it doesn't help when our manager has been fuelling the fire for the last 4-5 years with his 'infamy infamy' speech every week, to cover up his own mistakes..the speech has had it's desired effect he's got people believing everyone is against us ..

[flash gunner]

I remember Steve Bould doing David Hirst in a tackle from behind (ooohh matron)

but seriously i think Bould broke Hirsts leg on 2 seperate occasions with very hard tackling and at the time i had no probs with Boulds tough defensive qualities he didnt set out to hurt Hirst but im sure wanted to let him know he was there and genuinely went for the ball but went through Hirst to get it. I think we have to be careful not hypocritical about these types of tackles we used to commit some of them

[Exiled-Gooner]

I don't think we have a persecution complex,tell me this when have anyone heard or read in the media for the opposition to ''get in there faces'',''don't like it physical'' etc when playing the manure,chav's or laughapool?When have you seen Bolton etc play the same style against us and repeat it against manure?When shrek done is foot the papers were in a contest on how luvvy there could get but with this incident all we have heard or read is''Shawcross ain't that type of player'' and portray him as the victim.When Wenger comes out and complains about a incident etc or protects his players he's berated as a whinger but ferguscum ,moanrinho etc there have a point and something should be done and MOTD go to great lengths to prove them right.You rarely read or hear anything criticising certain clubs but you can guarantee there won't think twice about us.

The sports media are 2 faced and there's plenty of evidence to warrant the accusation,maybe wengers brought it on ourselves but it doesn't give a licence for the media to insinuate a type of tactic which as we have seen could ruin some one's career.Rafa Benitez complained about the gameplan of Blackburn but the media treated it as a joke would wenger get the same consideration?No i don't think we got a persecution complex,we don't get the same preferential treatment as others do.Maybe if wenger got some our players to act like scholes,essen,ballack,shawcross,taylor then would we get better reports and kinder summaries as the others?or are the dirty tricks only allowed for some and not others?

[clockendal]

I remember Steve Bould doing David Hirst in a tackle from behind (ooohh matron)

but seriously i think Bould broke Hirsts leg on 2 seperate occasions with very hard tackling and at the time i had no probs with Boulds tough defensive qualities he didnt set out to hurt Hirst but im sure wanted to let him know he was there and genuinely went for the ball but went through Hirst to get it. I think we have to be careful not hypocritical about these types of tackles we used to commit some of them

See the thing is that these guys are made of rock now. You think that Arsenal players are little that's why they get injured? Theses guys are trained and their bodies honed to within an inch of their life. They will have NO ounce of fat of them. All these old (auld for you micks) fellas saying it's because they cant take a tackle and have no "mucsle" on them ffs lads have a word they are made of steel. If one of these lads crunched through you, you'd be fucked for weeks.

I am not saying Shawcross set out to break Aaron's leg, but he did set out to "let him know he's there" which is fair enough. But not, when he's snapped his leg in half. I agree with AW on this one. Is it coincedence that we've had three broken legs in 4 years ?